MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Nov 12, 08 - 04:36 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

hmmmm, "leaders" as in sales wise or what? Maybe leading the way for firewire..? Apple used to do that

Nov 12, 08 - 04:42 pm Comment from: Cubert

"Microsoft will support the new 800 Megabit/second version of FireWire in upcoming Windows Version 7 releases next year."

What a fscking joke Winblows is!!! It's 2008 and they don't support Firewire 800 in Shitsa?!?!?

I guess it will stay that way until 2010, which is the earliest M$ will release Fista SP3 - despite what they say now.

Nov 12, 08 - 04:47 pm Comment from: thethirdshoe

If you're a pro, you buy a pro.

Steve Jobs: "Actually, all of the new HD camcorders of the past few years use USB 2"

1394 Trade Association: ""Virtually all HDV cameras continue to rely on FireWire for transfers, including some models that have become very popular with independent producers. The installed base of FireWire camcorders is still enormous, including many high-definition applications"

I know they both have an agenda, but the latter is in the right here...not even mentioning Target Disk Mode! Bad Steve, bad, bad bad...save a few bucks, screw the customer...we can't all afford MacBook Pros, you know!

Nov 12, 08 - 04:52 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

Gooo Ottawa!! I hear you my brother!

When will we see FireWire 3200 in Apple computers?

I believe Apple made a big mistake dropping FW400 from the new MacBooks. I know they need to differentiate the MacBook from the MacBook Pros, but that was not the way to do it.

It seems that the 1394 trade association's claims that FW is on the rise is in direct contradiction to Job's. Ultimately he may be right, but the loss of FW was premature, in my opinion.

Good thing I have a pretty new MBP 17" so I am not faced with this problem personally!

when i say firewire to pc users they say...what? thats how 'standard' it is lol

Except from a manufacturing/new implementation POV, FireWire is a dead-end technology. FW1600 was ratified 5+ years ago. FW3200 was ratified over a year ago. NOBODY making a chip that can even handle FW1600, let alone FW3200.

ESATA and USB are the future of connection standards (in the near future), simply because people are actively working on advancing these standards (and actually implementing them, which is more important than just defining how the next version of the standard should work).

I wish FW was keeping up with the other standards, but it's not. And it's not a positive sign for it when Apple drops it from a computer model that's had support for it from it's inception.

Nov 12, 08 - 05:48 pm Comment from: alansky

What are they talking about??? Their report conveniently ignores the fact that Apple has eliminated firewire from its most popular line of consumer portables. Firewire is so superior to USB that it would be laughable if firewire were not being ignored in favor of USB in the external peripherals market and, of course, by Apple.

The silly decision to use a different port for FW800 instead of finding a way to rejig to FW400 port to support the higher speed and future speed bumps seriously crippled the momentum of Firewire and gave USB a leg-up. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
They need to aggressively push ahead with the highest speed FW spec which will reach speeds of 6.4 Gbit/s (real, as opposed to USB3 4.8 Gbit/s theoretical), get it ratified and product to market ASAP as USB3 products won't appear until the end of 2009 at the earliest.
Come on Apple, it's time to lead again.

Nov 12, 08 - 06:14 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@dave (who is talking out his ass...)

"FireWire is a dead-end technology... ESATA and USB are the future of connection standards"

Those two might be fine for simpleton connections, but FW goes well beyond that standard and you know it. Without FW, you would still need some kind of video digitizing capture card.

Firewire allows simultaneous transfer of digital video and audio, timecode information, AND device control, all through a single cable!

Let me see either of the two standards you've mentioned allow for asynchronous communication, much less take operational control of an electronic device like a cam or audio mixer.

eSata, USB. Pffttt!

A laptop without firewire is like a hot-dog without mustard!

BIG mistake there Mr Jobs.

Well said G4Dualie! And for the comments that "pro's buy pros" get into the real world. FireWire 400 is hardly a "pro" feature - needed yes - useful yes - stupidly left off the MacBooks yes. FireWire has a future. If Apple is too stupid to see that and continue to leave it off their most popular laptop, they will face the consequences of that decision in reduced sales to education and the "middle" market.

Nov 12, 08 - 06:39 pm Comment from: MacMarc

How does Firewire 800 compare to USB3?

Obviously Jobs hasnt seen this article. Apple should do a little more research before shutting the gate.

Ok, so Apple execs are listing about Firewire.

But what about the polls for matte screens. Are Apple execs listening to those.

A quick google search for GLOSSY MATTE POLLS show that between 44% and 54% want matte screens.

44%
45%
48%
68%
50%
54%
72%

This agrees with what the local Apple store salesman told me: that it was roughly 50-50 for people who wanted matte vs glossy MacBook Pro's (of the former model that had the option).

Steve Jobs says the majority of people want glossy, but "majority" means anything above 50%. Surely if a minority of 45% want matte, a reasonable customer-focused company would listen?

Apple, stop being just design-driven, obsessed with beautiful form, and ignoring the real practical daily needs of customers who hate glare when using Macs for work in difficult lighting conditions.

Nov 12, 08 - 07:08 pm Comment from: Brau

The omission of Firewire plus the absence of a matte screen option were deal killers for my wife. An extra $1000 to get it on a MBP is also not an option. Result ... no sale.

Nov 12, 08 - 07:12 pm Comment from: MacMarc

I think Apple is going to replace the USB 2 slots on future MacBooks with USB 3 slots -- just to save the real estate. USB 3 is backwards compatible, manages power more efficiently, and has a theoretical throughput of 4.8 Gbit/s (600 MB/s).

MacBook Pros will get Firewire 3200 plus USB 3.

This will happen next year -- probably in the first half of the year. I'm guessing.

More on USB 3 is at Maximum PC.

Brau, really? Wow. Ok...

Nov 12, 08 - 07:19 pm Comment from: British Mac Head

there's nothing wrong with improving the form. We don't want badly built ugly Macs. But maybe Apple could put a single FW400 port back into the MacBook and put the FW800 in the pro to differentiate the two.

Does anyone else notice that the page title is about Apple upgrading the iBooks?

http://idisk.mac.com/bdfortin/Public/iBook.png

Apple made big mistake with FW drop on iBook. Apple are too busy doing music business. I wonder where we would be if Jobs liked movies and not music. Perhaps Apple TV would be more than a "hobby". How in the world does anyone expect to sell a product when you stand on a stage and give a live performance calling a product a "hobby". Must be great to have all the Frigging money in the world. Lets see what AppleJob will do as the fine consumers no longer can afford the "margins" necessary to grease the Jobsian Ego.

Oh, all right. If you insist:

Rombold, really? Wow. Ok....

Firewire external drive enclosures are getting very hard to find lately, but eSATA is cropping up all over the place. This really sucks for a lot of people who use, need and prefer firewire. Wouldn't it be nice if the superior technology won out in the consumer market for once. I'm getting tired of hearing this story again and again. It's the same reason MS Winblows has dominated the OS market for so long. Maybe this recession will force some of these PC makers to focus on quality technology instead of just shoving junk into consumer markets. It probably won't happen, but I can dream can't I?

I think dropping firewire 400 was premature. Apple should have kept it until it was replaced by USB 3.0... If indeed it is better than firewire. Makes sense to have one type of input/output standard. If USB 3.0 could meet the criteria for Camcorders, music devices, printers, and any other peripheral.

I was going to buy a new MacBook. I don't have the money for a MacBook Pro. I refuse to buy a Mac without FireWire. So I will wait. Since there is fear of recession, this may just be the right thing for the economy, right? Anyhow, Steve Jobs' decision to get rid of FireWire in MacBooks and only offer glossy displays in MacBooks incl. Pros was incredibly poor.

Nov 13, 08 - 02:55 am Comment from: Predrag

Ottawa Mark:

That claim is worded in a crafty way so as to appear that Jobs is wrong and FW association is right, but it is deceptive. Majority of HDV camcorders do indeed have FW, although even many new ones no longer do. You see, HDV is the encoding used on tape-based devices.

If FW association had disclosed the current facts about High Definition camcorders, they would have said that VAST MAJORITY of current camcorders are tapeless, and therefore without FireWire. You see, while those tape-based devices are HDV, most of tapeless devices aren't; they are AVCHD camcorders, and not a single AVCHD camcorder has FW.

AVCHD is the future of consumer HD video. HDV will still have its place, even though it uses (20-year) old MPEG-2, but AVCHD (MPEG-4) seems to be rapidly gaining traction. With it, USB2 will remain the only thing consumers will know, and FW will continue to be pushed into the pro corner.

Nov 13, 08 - 10:11 am Comment from: Shadowself

@dave
FW1600 & FW3200 were both ratified many years ago, but only over fiber. It never went main stream.
FW1600 & FW3200 over copper (using the same physical interface as FW800) were only recently ratified. It is unlikely these will go main stream either.

@Stuart
The 1394 group went to a different connector (physical interface) for FW800 because they had to. There were just too many limitations with the FW400 interface (which actually grew out of the original FW50 [yes, 50 Mbps] interface that started back in 1989). The good part is that the FW800 interface/connector can be used for FW1600 and FW3200 over copper -- assuming anyone actually builds that!

While my heart will always be with FW, the changes being made to USB in USB 3.0 will eliminate many of its limitations while dramatically upping the data rate. However, I do not expect to see USB 3.0 on even mid range laptops until at least 2010.

The question Apple hasn't answered, to my knowledge, is what's the plan if Firewire goes? USB 2 only, USB 3, or something else? We know the advantages of Firewire, especially for musicians- what's next? Or will these petitions have an effect? Same with the glossy screens- is there another thing coming?

For me, too- the lack of Firewire on the new Macbook was a deal-breaker. I'll continue to wait it out and use my hated Windows XP laptop for now.

Avchd is 1920x1080, and dv is only 1440x1080. Why whould anyone want dv since that is the case? Now for some Apple bashing. Apple get your shit together. On Apple's own website, poeple have said using FCE, or FCP will change your 1920x1080 res stuff from avchd to 1440x1080!!! I may buy a avchd camera LATER because of that. I won't buy another new Mac untill they fix that.