MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jul 25, 08 - 11:12 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

If it's anything like the mockups I've seen, I'll be standing in line again.

Man, Enderle has a slant on things that is truly amazing.

It's also possible that the iPhone brought so much attention to the smartphone segment, that it grew the whole segment so that it accelerated Blackberry sales. Instead of denting BB sales, it probably helped them. The players that got hurt were Palm, Motorola and Nokia, who couldn't grow their smartphone share in a growing smartphone market.

Let RIM continue to think that Apple hasn't made a dent. By the time they realize it, it will be too late to stop the wave. It may
already be too late for RIM.

The beauty is the design of the iPhone and the APP Store. As more & more apps become available, the iphone becomes more & more useful.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:16 am Comment from: Ampar

" . . . they were excited by the prospect of a touch-screen anything from Mac.

From Mac?

When did Apple's product brand become a company?

Jul 25, 08 - 11:16 am Comment from: theloniousMac

Sorta like Iraq hasn't made a dent in the United States.

As for the iPad, iNewton or iTablet or iDevice, if it's twice the size of the iPhone, or about the footprint size of the 12" AluPB, that I'll replace, then I'll be waiting in line too.

Perhaps the iPhone "hasn't made a dent in RIM's audience" because it caters to the discerning customer who would never have considered a smart phone before because they all sucked so bad.

Oh, wait, it's Enderle. No point in wasting a perfectly logical hypothesis on that doucherag. Never mind.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:19 am Comment from: theloniousMac

Would this be a very small device, ala something the size of an HTC?

Somewhere between iPhone and MacBook?

Full not iPhone gimped OS X?

That you can, if you so desire, connect a keyboard and mouse to?

That has USB 2.0 and EtherNet (via USB sorta like the MacBook Air?)

well, I don't know about a DENT but I know two of my co-workers that switched from a crackberry to an iPhone. All the guys with a Treo look very sad these days.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:19 am Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

I tried to watch a recent episode of Cranky Geeks that had Enderle on the panel.

I couldn't do it. All I could think of was choking the life out of that turd. Him and the rest of his group of two.

I think that the iPhone has increased RIM's total sales by making the consumer more aware of what a "smartphone" is and consequently inducing the desire to purchase one. In other words, the iPhone is growing the smartphone market in general.

Market-share wise the Blackberry is one of the best so iPhone and BB are becoming the front-runners both increasing market share.

iPhone's market share increase is more dramatic because it started from nothing a little more than a year ago.

Ultimately, though, the iPhone is destined to win the market share race because it is such an amazing and revolutionary device.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:25 am Comment from: Chuck U Farley

Enderle who?

I agree with Enderle on that one. The iPhone might have been better for RIM than Apple thus far.

RIM could never develop a product as lustworthy as the iPhone. Smartphone growth would've continued at a very slow pace without it. Before the iPhone, smartphone growth was reliant on "prosumers" going for more feature-filled devices like the BlackBerry Pearl, Motorola Q and Samsung BlackJack. It was slow, especially compared to the rest of the world.

The iPhone was the game changer and now there's growth all around, enough that sales haven't hurt RIM at all. In fact Palm is the biggest loser with both Apple and RIM eating away at their market share.

Now I'm sure the iPhone 3G at a cheaper pricepoint will be a different story by the end of the year. Once Apple turns the iPhone into a lineup of devices and hit the $99-to-free sweetspot it should hurt RIM further. As of right now, however, RIM has only benefitted from the iPhone.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:29 am Comment from: Bluefin

Ampar, you can be so obtuse...

Mac is the name of the guy at the Apple Store in the Orange T Shirt here in Boston.

RIM has known about the iPhone for at least 19 months. What do they have out the door?...A model that only resembles the iPhone in appearance, minus the smaller screen and buttons that are there whether you want to use them or not. If I was still a shareholder, I would be asking alot of questions.

MDN, love your LG Dare ad at the bottom.

My take on Macbook Touch:

If ever that thing exist, then for it to take off, it shouldn't just be a multi-touch enabled laptop.
This is a mistake most hardware companies like Dell have done, that Apple should avoid.
This product will have to be rethought as a whole, as a device of a totally new genre.
I mean some type of Internet & portable media device, with editing/handwritting functions.
A combo mix of productivity/media/gaming, a device on its own, an iPod like of communication.
If MobileME get up and running one day, then such a device could be awesome and unique.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:35 am Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

I have two random thoughts after reading this article.

#1 - I would pay an awful lot of money to see Enderle and Ballmer in a sumo wrestling match.

#2 - A really hot product would be a MacBook Touch (great name BTW) with no keyboard or cover, instead the keyboard appears on the screen like the iPhone, but in standard size. Also, make it as thin as the Air. Now that baby would absolutely fly off the shelves.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:43 am Comment from: John Gee

iPad.

You heard it right here.

The whole market for smart phones has grown since the iPhone was released.

Even beleaguered Palm has increased their sales of smart phones in the last year. How can you take a bit out of RIM when their year over year smart phone sales have increased so dramatically? Let's face it, with no iPhone, RIM's smart phone sales would have been lower in the last 12 months than they are now.

Apple helped RIM sell more smart phones not less.

Company of about 1500 people, currently 250 blackberries, many also have personal iphones and I'm getting 5 e-mails a day asking when we are going to allow mobilesync. Currently awaiting final approval to send the e-mail out to the company about the approval process but when it happens I think we will get over half of those bb's back within a week.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:51 am Comment from: Ampar

Bluefin: Oh, yeah. That cheesy guy.

MDN has become so biased it's actually become rather depressing. The fact that they don't even follow their own logic and nobody even seems to notice is even more disturbing.

MDN, you can't call somebody out for being wrong simply because you don't like what they're saying or who they are. I don't particularly like enderle either, but the fact of the matter is that if you can't measure the damage that apple has done to RIM, you can't say that rob is wrong. The only factual statistic that we have is how well they've done, and in the time that the iphone has been out, RIMs stock has gone up.

Claiming that apple is hurting RIM when RIM is doing better than ever, is exactly like saying napster hurt the recording industry when the record companies were making record profits.

You assholes are using the same logic as the RIAA.

Try to write something objectively for once.

Jul 25, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: TowerTone

Maybe someone oughtta order Mac to cut the cheese...

Jul 25, 08 - 12:00 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Take a look at this concept piece, if you haven't seen it already. It's based on Apple's patent filings for a two-sided, translucent touch screen.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=85564

Jul 25, 08 - 12:06 pm Comment from: MacFhearghaile

Any Journalist who quotes Rob Enderle as a reliable source is a FUD for brains idiot.

it occurred to me that, in what recent futuristic movie has anyone seen a physical keyboard? Even in Star Trek Next Gen back in 1991 they already had been tapping on flat screens. Last time I checked in Frys, the keys are the first thing that breaks down/off of display laptops after about 6 months of people randomly pounding on them. People need to wake up, even for a command line guy like me. It will be OK to give up the mouse and physical keyboard.

Jul 25, 08 - 12:11 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

"MDN has become so biased it's actually become rather depressing."

I think it would be even more depressing if Mac (I repeat, Mac) Daily News wasn't biased.

If MDN has a mission statement that refers to their being unbiased, I haven't seen it.

I had REALLY hoped that Enderle had retired with Bill Gates.

What a pity.

"The only factual statistic that we have is how well they've done, and in the time that the iphone has been out, RIMs stock has gone up."

Nah, we have a few other ways to measure like market share and sales. Market share has been relatively stable (might have even grown a few points), they're selling more smart phones than ever before and they're making more money than ever before.

One could argue that any iPhone gains are at RIM's expense because the 20% iPhone market share and revenue could all be potential BlackBerry sales. You could argue that consumers newly introduced to smartphones through the iPhone are likely to keep buying iPhones after the iTunes/App Store/OS X experience lock-in when they could've been BlackBerry customers. But like I said before, RIM could never create that one special device to open the US smartphone market. The most they could hope for is a chance to pick up the crumbs and so far every single one has fallen right into RIM's lap.

As the iPhone drops in price, expands to more markets worldwide and Apple no doubt turns it into a lineup of phones at various prices just like they did with the iPod, the question now is whether or not RIM can run alongside and keep up or perhaps even outpace Cupertino.

Jul 25, 08 - 12:15 pm Comment from: Willie G

I just don't see anything very useful about a touch-screen computer in a form factor other than hand-held, like the iPhone / iPod Touch.

I mean, in a desktop or laptop form, you would be forced to hold your arms out to work.. and they would get tired as gravity takes it's toll. Additionally, your screen would get covered in smudgy hand oils.

Instead, a portable or desktop machine that employs a multi-touch control surface seems much more useful. Imagine the current track pad on the Mac Book Pro being made much larger and possibly incorporating a screen of it's own that serves as the multi-touch interface. Or, a peripheral for desktops that follows that same form factor, effectively rendering the mouse obsolete.

Now THAT would be something to get excited about.

Jul 25, 08 - 12:27 pm Comment from: Macromancer

"Man, Enderle has a slant on things that is truly amazing."

If by "slant" you mean he's batshiat crazy, then yes.

I dont think, that Apple will make the same mistake like Microsoft and bring the touch concept to a laptop or desktop. Every software on the mac is optimised for the user interface with mouse and keyboard so without optimization for a touch interface for every single peace of software it wont be really fun to use. Why tablet computers are so less successful at the moment, it´s not only about the price, there is a very limited range of software, which are working better or even support a touch interface.
So maybe its easier and more likly to bring a really big ipod touch with a 7 to 10 inch display and run OS X phone on it.

Jul 25, 08 - 12:34 pm Comment from: Denny

@John Gee

How about iMiniPad!

Jul 25, 08 - 12:37 pm Comment from: Ampar

"I had REALLY hoped that Enderle had retired with Bill Gates."

I didn't think he had a choice. You can plainly see his legs dangling from Bill's rectum.

I suspect that in the "enterprise" market the iPhone isn't making as much of a dent as it is expanding the market. How the iPhone is doing compared to RIM is probably better viewed as percent of growth rather than market share. The same way many often look at Mac growth rather than market share. The iPhone is a market expander!
What do you think?

"Man, Enderle has a slant on things that is truly amazing."

You should see what he writes back when you write him. Truly, truly amazing.

Actually amazingly funny to read when he tries to justify his statements - hilarious actually.

And the most amazing is that he keeps writing back to you - each time more and more convoluted...

Try it:



LOL

I was arguing against MDNs logic, not their point.
Their logic is flawed and follows the same thought process that the RIAA uses.

And the other point that I was making is that they have no need to be biased.

Apple has a great product and thats a fact. But using faulty logic or misinformation to hype a product only weakens your argument.

Jul 25, 08 - 01:37 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Squid,

Ok, I'll admit they are biased, and they sometimes go just a little bit overboard.

But if they didn't, we might end up with a site as dull as MacWorld.

re Apple hasn't made a dent in RIM...

In MDN's very small world someone - everyone - has to lose for Apple to win. RIM can't be successful in its own right without it somehow impinging on Apple's success or reputation which is immediately perceived as a threat or a personal insult.

Your attacks on Enderle whether justified or not, belies MDN's own deep seated insecurity.

Jul 25, 08 - 02:43 pm Comment from: Micro Me

@Sir Gill Bates

"...they are biased, and they sometimes go just a little bit overboard."

In fact, they go way overboard, often. That's the attraction.

"...if they didn't, we might end up with a site as dull as MacWorld."

Agreed. I don't know why I still bother to bookmark MacWorld.

For Mac news, I go to MacSurfer. I come to MDN for the biased takes and rants, and to occasionally contribute to the party.

Jul 25, 08 - 02:59 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Micro Me,

I still like MacWorld, but there's no way you can act like we do here on their website. They will slap you down pronto. I guess they are a lot more genteel and mature. At least compared to me.

But without a doubt, MDN is fun.

MDN is fun. I have been coming here daily for years.

My only question is how the hell did RIM become the second coming of Microsoft?

RIM did not abuse it's monopoly. It just makes smart phones that users love. In fact, it was the Apple of the cell phone world until iPhone came along.

In a 1.2 billion handset industry, there is room for more than one good guy. RIM can be everyone's second choice.

I wouldn't expect physical keyboards to disappear anytime soon. Anyone who has a lot of text entry to do will generally be better served by a physical keyboard, which allows tactile feedback, than any type of virtual keyboard. If you don't type much, then yes, a touch-screen or other virtual keyboard is fine.

Jul 25, 08 - 03:45 pm Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

It's about time Congress should pass a law barring Rob Endershit from publishing anything, as he is as out of touch with technology as his "bosses" as Microsoft (who obviously are paying him off). The statements Enderle makes are not just absurd, they are simply lies.

And to Sir Gill Bates statement, "I think it would be even more depressing if Mac (I repeat, Mac) Daily News wasn't biased", Sir Gill couldn't be more correct.

Jul 25, 08 - 03:59 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Al,

Ditto that. It seemed like RIM was one of the most respected companies in existence, and now all of a sudden they are incompetent and evil.
I don't understand how the presence of the iPhone nullifies their value.

At first it was Apple and RIM against MicroSoft, and now it's Apple against the universe. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Jul 25, 08 - 05:10 pm Comment from: Bartleby

Enderle is an ardtard. MDN makes a great point about switching from iPhone to Blackberry. My company's IT Nazis are control freaks who love Windoze and Crackberry. If they ever issue me a free Crackberry, I'll forward that piece of crap to my personal iPhone and expense the minutes. There's NO WAY I'm giving up my iPhone, even if they try to pry it from my cold dead fingers!

Jul 25, 08 - 05:29 pm Comment from: Malthus

"how the hell did RIM become the second coming of Microsoft?"

When they and their users started acting like Microsoft and their users re: iPhone. You know the sort of thing: "won't succeed because it doesn't have a real keyboard"; "Not suitable for the Real Serious Business User"; "only a niche player"; "BB is the market leader, Apple just can't do the things we can" etc, etc.

IMPACT? I think so...

While I stood in line on July 11, in a mall just outside Toronto, at a Rogers kiosk, being one of 52 patiently waiting for hours, because Rogers web based activation system crashed and they had to revert to using telephones to activate iPhones, I took a survey.

I literally walked up and down the line and asked people what phone they were dropping in favor of the iPhone:

16 were Blackberrys
5 were Nokia smartphones
2 were Palm Treos
1 Sony Ericsson 990i

the rest were non-smart phones of all makes and models.

I also asked if they were changing service providers, 14 of the 52 (27%) said they were switching to Rogers from other service providers.