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The more things change...the more they remain the same!

Another yawn from Adobe.

Sep 17, 08 - 12:27 pm Comment from: Macromancer

One compelling feature they could add is making the performance not completely suck. CS3 is by far the buggiest most crash-prone version of Adobe software I've used in 15 years. They aren't likely to get any upgrade money from me.

I wish Adobe would spend their time on fixing the current apps then coming out with a $700 upgrade with no new features. If history serves me correct they will break more things than they will fix with a new release. Now they are just ripping us off.

Sep 17, 08 - 12:28 pm Comment from: ron

Adobe = mud.

$700 for an upgrade?????? and a minor one at that???????????? I need some of that cool aid they drinking!!!!!!!!

They need to re-write adobe apps from scratch to make use of modern development environments and OS platforms instead of continuing to develop on top of old platforms with fixes and patches that keep it barely running.

Just start again! Write a complete feature list of what the app has and start again. Seriously, they should be making use of the apple cocoa frameworks, core animation, core audio etc... All it will take is one good alternative application and there business is gone. It's happened before and it'll happen again.

Whatever happened to companies spending time on a good application and supporting it? Freaking Adobe is too busy trying to make a new version so they can bring in some cash. I think that they should go back to the way it was and update individual programs instead of the whole suite. It is like buying an album - 1 good song and the rest crap.

$699. for a minor upgrade! If this is true, I'll just continue to use CS3. Shame on you Adobe!

This is about a transition -- and turning Creative Suite into Adobe's new cash cow. Adobe is attempting to replace Photoshop's gigantic revenue stream with a more robust CS revenue stream now that Photoshop has saturated the market and growth has leveled off.

For years, Adobe's strongest profit-making periods always come during the quarters with Photoshop upgrades, which occurred every 18 months or so. Customers probably have been upgrading other Adobe programs less often. By tying the Photoshop franchise to the CS Suite, Adobe now receives about $700 per customer during these upgrade quarters, rather than $199 from a mere Photoshop upgrade.

This, in-and-of itself, is not a bad thing -- if Adobe can maintain a feverish development pace for all CS applications. This CS release may be the first indicator that Adobe can't easily maintain that pace for each CS application.

Dump your Adobe stock... in this day with the economy so tight, why on earth would anyone spend $700 on a service pack? I hope this comes back to hurt Adobe and its stock.

$700 for a service pack is a rip off and should be illegal. I know no one is forcing me to buy it, but...

Sep 17, 08 - 12:42 pm Comment from: shen

"It is like buying an album - 1 good song and the rest crap."

and that one song requires 4 gigs and no other applications running when you play it in iTunes......

Of course, if you're a nonprofit, and you bought into the service contract, it's basically free ... except what you paid for the service contract, which is something like $150-200 every 2 years.

$700 is way too much to pay for minor feature upgrades. But if few people pay it, they will be forced to come down. Yet another good reason NOT to support applications in the cloud ... because then you'd be REQUIRED to pay the upgrade, or no Photoshop for you.

Sep 17, 08 - 01:06 pm Comment from: ElderNorm

See what happens when sales starts to run the company???

Jat,
en

" . . . why on earth would anyone spend $700 on a service pack?"

Yeah, but it might have a few new tool shapes and take only five minutes to quit an app instead of ten!

There is no way I'm paying ANOTHER $700 for CS4. I've been working with Adobe products since the mid 80's and once thought very highly of them. Now, I'm always looking for other software options. C'mon Adobe, give us independent creative types a price break. After all, we were the customers who built your company up in the first place!!

@ Macromancer

I agree about CS3's buggieness, it freezes and crashes for me regularly and is completely incapable of remembering workspaces, palette locations etc. I have to reset the workspace every time I switch away from the app to another app and back again.

Adobe killed Quark. Who will kill Adobe?

"Who will kill Adobe?"

I think it will be Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick. If they had a Clue, this could be avoided.

Adobe have been ripping off UK customers for Photoshop for years charging way over the top and getting away with it.

I certainly wont be buying ANYTHING from Adobe in a hurry.

Sep 17, 08 - 01:42 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

You guys are missing the most important new feature.

New icons.

Sep 17, 08 - 01:46 pm Comment from: Dan

Macs left out!

Adobe’s flagship product, Photoshop, will become a 64-bit application in the next major revision to the company’s bundle of creative pro applications, Creative Suite 4. However, the 64-bit version will only be available to Windows users because of a change Apple made at its Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) in 2007.

http://www.macworld.com/article/132810/2008/04/photoshop64.html

This looks to be the first time I'll skip the upgrade myself. I understand, somewhat, the decision not to make the Mac version of Photoshop 64-bit. Does this mean than once Apple comes out with Snow Leopard next year they'll bring out CS5 and it'll be 64-bit?

A lot of my fondness for Adobe died when they killed FrameMaker for Mac. I wish they'd sell it to Apple or someone who can get apps written for the Mac. I loved using that program for nearly all of our document needs.

Sep 17, 08 - 02:06 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

lemecdutex

Apple used Frame Maker on some documents on something or other in the past year, I forget what it was. But this was after Classic was officially discontinued in their main OS 10.5.

So even Apple likes Frame Maker and uses it even tho they no longer make any hardware that can support it.

Sep 17, 08 - 02:17 pm Comment from: Tommy Boy

What would it take to finally bring FreeHand's bezier point conversion tools into Illustrator? Allow me to move between pages in a PDF without opening and closing? And simply have the app not crash? THAT last one in and of it self would be worth the price of admission.

Sep 17, 08 - 02:20 pm Comment from: UltraVisitor

You're missing the real story here.

Dreamweaver CS4 now uses Webkit!

The most popular tool for web developers will finally have true WYSIWYG through the Webkit rendering engine. This will make it even easier to make websites that are work with Safari.

http://www.macworld.com/article/133640/2008/05/dreamweavercs4beta.html

Sep 17, 08 - 02:22 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

I really don't think Adobe is going to fair well with this update I think they are going to enhance Photoshop speed, not so much by optimizing it for better processing, but by moving part of the processes down to the GPU. I would much rather if they would optimize for multithreading, since that seems to be the trend as far as hardware.

I think I will be skipping this upgrade my self too.

the only update coming from Adobe has been to their pricing, and that hasn't been very compelling.

Still strong on CS1.

Sep 17, 08 - 02:55 pm Comment from: Demon

@ CrabApple
"$700 for an upgrade?????? and a minor one at that???????????? I need some of that cool aid they drinking!!!!!!!!"

My thought exactly with a few more ???? and ???????? and !!!!!!!!! tossed in for good measure.

Sep 17, 08 - 03:06 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

*BIG SURPRISE!*

This is what happens when a company establishes a monopoly. Without competition a company:

A) Overcharges
B) Gets L A Z Y, so long innovation
C) Treats their customers as pests

Here we go again. Let's clink our Molotov cocktails and light a toast to Adobe, Microsoft and all the monopolies everywhere! Cheers! We're all hosed.

Next stop: OpenSource! Everybody out!

Sep 17, 08 - 03:23 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

ElderNorm sez: "See what happens when sales starts to run the company???"

Well, that has been an issue at Adobe for some time. When I knew one of their developers circa 1997 he made it quite clear to me that the company had its technical head up its rectum. Rather than gather in the latest innovative ideas, developers had to bloody their head against a wall of management ignorance and resistance to change.

IOW their leadership stank, and I can only guess that the cause was the infiltration of marketing staff who, oddly enough, have the exact opposite personality to those who are inventive and productive. Productive people can learn to put up with relational (marketing) personalities. But relational personalities go out of their way to destroy productive personalities in their midst. This is how companies implode and die. It's happening to Microsoft right now. This is typical of the corporate aging process.

The sad reason why, the one I am aware of, is the often psychopathic need of relational types to attain power over others. It has something to do with the need to manipulate others that occurs in THE DARK SIDE of relational personalities. Some relational people love and live to serve others and will give you anything to help you. But on the other side are those who will hate and give you any lie they can conceive of to get your love so they can take total control of your life and ruin it. Example? Can't you think of one off the top of your head? Clues: Politics. Washington. William Kristol. Project For The New American Century. Iraq manifesto. Cheney... You're getting warmer! Then bring that right up to date: AIG bankrupt. Then consider the response from their big boy pals in Washington, the ones who only last week refused to give out corporate welfare. That's how this 'relational' madness game is played. It has nothing at all to do with productivity or innovation. It will be called The Bush Depression.

Sep 17, 08 - 03:42 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

THE 64 BIT HILARITY!

First: What applications can you think of that could use significantly more than 4 GB of RAM all to itself? CS4 perhaps? And you'd think a developer who made such applications would happily oblige users the ability to access more than 4 GB of RAM, right?

How long has Apple been TELLING developers to go Cocoa? Since the announcement of Cocoa circa 1999. So how long has Adobe had to go Cocoa? About NINE YEARS. And CS4 will be 32 bit on Mac because why? Because Adobe never adopted Cocoa. Because Adobe stuck with ye olde Carbon programming. Because ye olde Carbon programming was never fully ported to allow 64 bit programming, nor should it have been, DUH. Because Adobe are STOOPID and L A Z Y.

And the utter hilarity of it all is that nearly ALL the demand for 64 bit CS is from the Mac platform, where every single Mac made since the arrival of the G5 chip in 2003 has been 64 bit. That's five years ago.

How much demand is there for 64 bit CS on the Windows platform?

Think about it. How many people do you know who have 64 bit capable PC hardware? ANY?! Of those who do, how many have been willing to update to 64 bit Windows with all the driver horrors and security lock down user-abuse it entails? I am willing to bet that not only haven't you heard of any, but that instead you have heard of those who are AVOIDING IT LIKE THE PLAGUE.

Brilliant Adobe. Congratulations on creating a product nearly no one wants. You blithering, self-destructive idiots.

Sep 17, 08 - 03:42 pm Comment from: alansky

his, in-and-of itself, is not a bad thing -- if Adobe can maintain a feverish development pace for all CS applications. This CS release may be the first indicator that Adobe can't easily maintain that pace for each CS application. —HD Boy

Since when has Adobe ever maintained a "feverish development pace?" As good as it is, Photoshop has changed relatively little since version 3, released in 1994) which introduced Layers. And the entire Creative Suite features an ugly, outdated interface that is sadly in need of a major facelift. Personally, I think Adobe has lost its way; and I hope they manage to find it again. Otherwise, I hope another developer (Apple maybe?) steps up to the plate and knocks Adobe off its throne. They have done precious little in recent years to demonstrate that they still have the wherewithall (or the will) to push the envelope.

Sep 17, 08 - 04:05 pm Comment from: appaulmac

It wasn't that long ago I upgraded to CS3. We're still finding our feet with that version in our office. In fact, it takes a lot longer to migrate a whole office workflow to a new version than just one person.

We need a couple of extra licences too, perhaps I can pick up CS3 cheaper next month, thanks to CS4.

I guess Adobe need some extra dosh right about now, otherwise why else would they release CS4 so soon after CS3??

"Adobe Creative Suite 4 to be minor update"

Every suite comes with your own sixteen year old that knows more than you.

I've had CS3 for months now and I still can't update the pieces due to the nightmare updating system Adobe "engineered" for mac. Think I'll pass on CS4 if possible.

@alansky: "Photoshop has changed relatively little since version 3"

Overstated a bit much, I think. While IMO the CS versions have offered only minor improvements from one to the next, going back to version 3 or even version 7 would be a huge loss. I use the CS-era features all the time, and even find some of the additions in CS3 very beneficial.

I mean, if all you are doing is cropping and spinning photos, sure. But for pros? Come on!

They should have called it Creative Snow Suite 3.

Sep 17, 08 - 07:42 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

derekcurrie "Brilliant Adobe. Congratulations on creating a product nearly no one wants. You blithering, self-destructive idiots."

Couldn't agree more with your post. Adobe is not the company it used to be. Sad to see what being lazy, fat, undisciplined, old, and unchallenged monopoly can do to a once amazing company.

Sep 17, 08 - 07:44 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Snow Job Leopard,

Except Snow Leopard will be fully 64 bit native, with performance enhancements, and fully Intel Native with optimization for multiple processor cores and significant new technology to allow other software to more fully utilize multi core hardware.

CS3 will have new icons.

"Except Snow Leopard will be fully 64 bit native, with performance enhancements, and fully Intel Native with optimization for multiple processor cores and significant new technology to allow other software to more fully utilize multi core hardware."

Microsoft's been shipping all that for years, nobody cares. New icons would make more difference to every body's daily life.

P.S. Gotta laugh at Granny Steve in the Apple Mac house in the new Microsoft ad. "She's been here 12 years..."

Sep 17, 08 - 08:15 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Yawn,

Microsoft has not shipped a fully 64 bit OS that was compatible with 32 bit programs or drivers.

Microsoft has no answer for Apples multicore services which will be shipping with Snow Leopard.

"Microsoft has not shipped a fully 64 bit OS that was compatible with 32 bit programs or drivers."

You might be right about the drivers, but not about the programs.

The point remains, nobody cares or they'd all be running 64 bit windows on their 64 bit PCs, since almost every PC sold today is 64 bit capable and 64 bit desktop PCs hit the market first in 2005.

"Microsoft has no answer for Apples multicore services which will be shipping with Snow Leopard."

Windows already scales to 128 cores. The Mac OS X kernel has historical issues with a lot of cores. This is not a leap ahead by Apple, just a clean up of the kernel and playing catch-up to where Microsoft and Linux already are.

Sep 17, 08 - 08:50 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Funny how you people will believe any little piece of trash you find on the interwebs.

>.<

-c

"Funny how you people will believe any little piece of trash you find on the interwebs."

Chrissy we just can't wait for your mighty employer Adobe to ship it's next really non boring update.

Is that better?

Sep 17, 08 - 09:29 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

So you DID miss me.

Thought so. =)

{kisses!}

-c

I'm using Photoshop CS4 right now. And whoever offered up this report is an idiot. The Bridge update is worth the update alone! And what comes in Photoshop CS4?

All I can say is you will not be disappointed.

No new features and an interface uglier than Windows Vista? No thanks Adobe, you can suck it.

@ IDArgyll
Quark killed itself by sticking to old APIs for way too long and by refusing to convert to Cocoa. Adobe got some of that business just by being around.

Sep 18, 08 - 04:16 am Comment from: derekcurrie

Some generic troll who makes everyone 'Yawn' sez:
" "Except Snow Leopard will be fully 64 bit native, with performance enhancements, and fully Intel Native with optimization for multiple processor cores and significant new technology to allow other software to more fully utilize multi core hardware." "

"Microsoft's been shipping all that for years, nobody cares. New icons would make more difference to every body's daily life."

Remarkably stoopid comment. Thus I slap 'Yawn' to wake him up:

I) Microsoft has sold 64 bit versions of Windows since 2005. The only folks who have wanted 64 bit Windows have been high end Enterprise users who wanted it for servers.

II) Meanwhile, Apple went ENTIRELY 64 bit as of 2003, that's two years PREVIOUS to Microsoft, with all their G5 Macs, followed on by all the Intel Macs with the exception of the earliest Mac Mini Intel Mac. Who cared? Any professional involved in 3D rendering, video editing and large scale 2D imaging (HELLO ADOBE YOU DOPES!), among others, who could use all the RAM in their machine they could lay their hands on. 4 GB didn't cut it.

III) Meanwhile, there has NEVER YET been a movement in the consumer Windows world to go 64 bit, despite its availability of 64 bit Windows from Microsoft. Why not?!
A) IBM derived PC hardware is STILL late to the 64 bit hardware market. Things are so incredibly stoopid in the PC hardware world that you can buy a PC with a 64 bit Intel processor, but the PC manufacturer, by saving a buck here and there, left the rest of the hardware in the box only 32 bit capable. Talk about your PC POS! This is the kind of rubbish Apple could never pull on their customers. (Not that they haven't pulled some nasties in their time).
B) Microsoft, previous to Vista, made going 64 bit outrageously nasty. You had to give up ALL your 32 bit apps, and good luck finding native 64 bit apps. Oh, you want an example? Didn't we just learn that Adobe won't go 64 bit until CS4 for Windows?
C) And even in Vista, going 64 bit is nasty.
1) You can do 32 bit apps in 64 bit Vista, but they run under EMULATION. This means they run more slowly than on 32 bit Vista. And we already know how Vista is remarkably SLOWER than Windows XP when running on the same hardware.
2) Microsoft completely bollocksed up the driver situation in 64 bit Vista. If you thought the driver problem in 32 bit Vista was shocking, you ain't seen nothing yet.
a) ALL drivers have to be rewritten to specifically be 64 bit. There is no such thing as a 32 bit driver that will work in 64 bit Windows.
b) ALL drivers for 64 bit Windows have to be signed with a certificate. I said ALL. There is no such thing as a working driver for 64 bit Windows that is not certified. All other drivers simply will not work due to 64 bit Vista's unforgiving security structure.
c) If you want to use the OFFICIAL Microsoft "Vista Certified" Logo on your driver, the certification FEE from Microsoft starts at $250 (US) per operating system family you want signed and certified for compatibility.

Then get this: A developer gets scalped by Microsoft to get his driver OFFICIALLY certified, all for the sake of security in 64 bit Vista, and it turns out that the security measures are a waste of time. Read it and weap:

http://keznews.com/3259_Microsoft_Is_Defending_x64_Windows_Vista

To quote: "Malformed code can be injected into the x64 Vista kernel via a driver with a legitimate or a malicious certificate. Additionally, the operating system's core can be breached through faulty drivers."

Just give me a gun. And people use Windows? I am so glad I have much better alternatives. Stop 'Yawn'-ing! The Windows PC world has to catch up with 64 bit one of these days! Macs have been running rings around you since 2003! And Snow Leopard continues to consolidate the quality of 64 bit Mac OS X. And ALL Mac users care. We like quality. We have quality. We want more quality. We don't want Windows 'quality', thank you.