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So we can view any flash based website too?? Not just play a flash based game?

@Mel,

I doubt it. Sounds like it takes the script code and translates it into native Obj-C somehow.

Which is interesting because these kind of things seem cool in theory but are really hard to implement.

no plugin so no viewing flash in the browser. What it does is take a working flash build and exports the build as a native flash app... this is welcomed news to flash developers like myself.

Oct 05, 09 - 03:37 pm Comment from: Yours Smugly

Here you have the unspoken reason to the lack of Flash on the iPhone.

sorry I meant exports it as a native iphone app.

If we can have Flash/Native apps on the iPhone, but not in Safari, it is the best of both worlds, because Flash is screwing up the information integrity and speed of information delivery on the web. How many BULLSH*T flash restaurant websites that waste valuable time and cost our economy lost productivity every day?

On the other hand, Flash is great for highly immersive application like Websites that make a lot of use of multimedia, just like the Native Apps on the iPhone, as long as Adobe has finally optimized 10.1 to scale to the mobile platform.

@ Ed

1. its just a version of Flash that embeds as a resouce into an iPhone app, like like bundling a picture or sound file resource into an app

2. it does not translate actionscript to Obj-C/Cocoa

3. it is limited in what it can do

4. i hope this does not get a lot of attention

5. running actionscript inside a flash player inside of an Obj-C app is not good software development

6. flash needs to be less part of the programming scene - not more

this just saved/created thousands of advertising jobs.

@planar

he says explicitly in the video "no runtime interpretation, no JIT". (Just in time compiler)

That plus the pesky "no interpreted code" sdk limitation sounds like is has to be converting to native somehow.

I personally am not interested enough to dig into the details. I don't think game development on the iPhone has suffered because of a lack of Flash.

Yeesh... Adobe's Flash is like the Borg of proprietary platform technologies, seeking to assimilate every platform it possibly can into the Flash Collective.

From the link provided above:

Are applications for iPhone built with Flash Platform tools interpreted at runtime?
No. iPhone applications built with Flash Platform tools are compiled into standard, native iPhone executables, just like any other iPhone application.

Can applications load SWF files or other code at runtime, such as a module from a website?
No. iPhone applications built with Flash Platform tools are compiled into standard, native iPhone executable packages and there is no runtime interpreter that could be used to run ActionScript bytecode within the application.

So it does indeed sound like it's translating Actionscript into Objective-C somehow.

And really, you have to wonder exactly how useful this will be. A large part of being able to optimize software for the iPhone involves utilizing XCode and the other tools Apple provides when coding natively on ObjC. Adding a layer to convert Flash to ObjC on top of that has to complicate performance testing considerably.

Oct 05, 09 - 04:46 pm Comment from: ceres

This will not past the application store. It will go the way of Google Voice unfortunately.

Oct 05, 09 - 04:48 pm Comment from: jjjj

A similar thing is coming to Blackberry. Apparently it deals with Apps and hopefully won't work in Safari mobile browser.

Oct 05, 09 - 05:16 pm Comment from: ecrabb

Hmmmmm.... (that's a suspicious "I don't know about that" "hmm", not an "Oh, that's interesting" "hmm"...)

Oct 05, 09 - 05:51 pm Comment from: Logan

Ceres,

It's already used to create iPhone Apps. Adobe is just drawing attention to it now. Again, there are already apps in the App Store built with this technology.

I hate Adobe and I hope they die. They make crappy, bloated, overpriced software. I hate them.

@ Gabriel and @ Ed

NO. It does not translate ActionScript into Obj-C code. That is not how it works at all.

It creates a standalone flash resource and then Adobe provides a compiled Obj-C Flash player basically. The actual Flash/actionscript that you make is not magically turned into a complex Obj-C audio-visual bonanza.

I would not use the term JIT or Runtime for Flash. That gives it too much credit. That is not what how an SWF file works.

AND I repeat, it has many limitations as far as Flash goes. It does not do everything that Flash can do.

PLUS, there is no guarantee that Apple will allow these types of apps to be in the App Store. I suspect that they will NOT allow these pseudo-Flash apps.

If Adobe can't even market CS4 as a compliant Cocoa app, how do you think they would be able to create a Flash to Cocoa wonder-machine? That's fantasy guys, sorry.

An example of an App like this is "Frotz" which is a text adventure engine that loads in resource files from famous and not so famous text adventures that used a common language (like ActionScript) - that is how it works.

Oct 05, 09 - 08:32 pm Comment from: Spark

From watching the video, it appears that the Flash dev app is now interpreting the Actionscript code that Flash designers are familiar with into into the iPhone C++ code in the background (which most Actionscript jockeys aren't ready to dive into). Granted, it is probably limiting in some functions compared to working directly in the iPhone SDK, but for most seasoned Flash developers this will be a boon. I can't see where is harms the iPhone, but I haven't compared any of the Flash apps to see if they are larger or somehow otherwise hogging resources. Adobe is adapting its tools and I can't find fault with this move.

Oct 05, 09 - 08:44 pm Comment from: Spark

@I'm with Planar
You may be right, but I'm wondering how you know you are right. Have you intimate knowledge of Adobe's method being employed in Flash CS5, or are you speculating. I don't think there is any correlation between the re-writing of CS4 apps like PhotoShop in Cocoa, and a mechanism that converts and repackages code for export. The fact that you "suspect that they will NOT allow these pseudo-Flash apps" on the App Store undermines your arguments because many are already there. The reality is that if you didn't know that they were created in Flash you might not be able tell through there use. Regardless of the gobs of misused Flash on the web, it still provides many of us in the graphic arts business with a great way to produce motion-based presentations of often-complex subjects. For me, the option of enabling these as a free app that a client can share with their customers is very attractive.

@ Spark

1. sorry you are still on the Flash train

2. yes, I have detailed knowledge of this as well as detailed iPhone and Mac programming experience/knowledge

3. There are NOT already apps made with this tool in the app store - that is totally bogus info that is being peddled by Adobe promoters. Simply false.

@ Spark

FYI

iPhone does not run on C++ code, it runs on Objective-C which can support C++ and straight C code, but usually developers work with the Cocoa frameworks which are Obj-C frameworks. The iPhone SDK is not made up for C++ code either. iPhone apps are compiled into executables with resource files and the iPhone is able to execute those apps natively.

and I'm still with Planar

Interesting discussions here

It builds an app with an ActionScript "virtual machine" pre-coded and embedded into the app along with your Flash masterpiece. It basically creates a custom Flash player that can only play your Flash creation.

The app does not get converted into Obj-C or otherwise allow for much in the way of customization or traditional programming in Xcode. You do everything in Flash and then export it out. Adobe prebuilt the virtual machine/player and then they just combine it with your Flash design work.

So, is it useful? Thats a matter of opinion. Sometimes, it feels like we are going backwards with computer science. This feels like one of those times.

Adobe: please give it a rest already

Oct 05, 09 - 09:23 pm Comment from: jocknerd

Sounds like Adobe has taken their AIR environment and ported it to work on the iPhone. Probably wasn't difficult since it was already running on OS X.

It's already used to create iPhone Apps. Adobe is just drawing attention to it now. Again, there are already apps in the App Store built with this technology.

I hate Apple and I hope they die. They make crappy, bloated, overpriced software. I hate them.

Last comment on this from me:
1. I'm not "on the Flash train". I just know how to get things accomplished in that environment, whereas I don't fully comprehend other methods.
2. I am no programmer, and thus, while being aware of the primary programming languages used, do not know the nuances of each. Programming is not how I earn a living.
3. I earn a living by delivering a finished advertising and communication products to clients—usually of a technical nature. At times, this includes animations and presentations utilizing Flash.
4. If Flash CS5 enables me to produce a deliverable playable on the iPhone and other smartphones, it could provide a useful and interesting channel.
5. These Flash apps don't seem to harm the iPhone or their users. They don't hog bandwidth because they are not online, and I've seen no evidence they have a detrimental effect on normal iPhone usage.

So, while I understand the hatred for Flash on the web, and the bad blood with Adobe (I share the traditional complaints), I'm finding it hard to find the downside of this application of Flash to develop content for an iPhone app. If I am not ready to jump into full fledged iPhone app development because programming is not a core competency, yet I have some experience in Flash that can be leveraged into generating a presentation (for example) that can be viewed on an iPhone, where is the harm? Better yet, what is the alternative?

If Adobe spent some time optimising their "suite" of applications it would make a nice change - it seems rather than do that they're hell bent on cashing in on the next big thing.

Flash runs like a dog on all my Macs - it would be nice if you fixed THAT adobe!

@ Spark


good point - programming is not your core competency - that's honest.

Then why are you hell bent on making a software app? Why not focus on your core competency