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Chrissy, you didn't write the press release, did you?

Mar 05, 08 - 03:43 pm Comment from: Ampar

The optimized Flash lite plug-in for the iPhone probably sits on one Adobe programmer's HD next to the OS X Intel-native Shockwave player. If at all.

Mar 05, 08 - 03:45 pm Comment from: Spark

"Thin gruel" M-m-m-m--m--m

Mar 05, 08 - 03:57 pm Comment from: eMax

So i guess because Steve said flash is "crap" we all have to hate it now?

Is this a mac daily news or Steve jobs worship site?

Mar 05, 08 - 04:04 pm Comment from: Mac4lfe

@ eMax. This is a Steve Jobs worship site. I love it...

Now, wait, let's not be dissing Adobe. I love my Mac and my Adobe products.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:09 pm Comment from: chefmitch

@eMax

I thought Flash was crap long before Steve Jobs gave the public a reason why Flash isn't (and won't be) on the iPhone.

Feel free to make up your own mind.

eMax, you are a FOOL!!! Your BLATHERINGS and GLOTZWEILS are not profound. I AM profound! You are nothing but a puny little girly man with LAZY NOODLES for biceps ... I AM de GOVERNATOR ... You and Steve Jobs are NOTHING without my BLOGalicious profundities and things of this nature ... I will KICK APPLE OUT of CruperTIN-O and I will do it while SIMOOLTANEUSLEEE holding a 1991 VW BEETLE over my head VIT ONE ARM!!!!

KaliFORNia is MINE TO RUN as I see fit! This Adobe nonsense is all smoke and mirrors ... unlike my all-time super-dooper Holiday smash hit JINGLE ALL DE VAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!! WHICH IS STILL NOT ON iTUNES YET! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Ooh, und by de vay -- thin gruel is very good for you. I used to mix it with my STEROIDS when I was still training and using de MARYjuana! I instruct you NIMBLENOMBYS to add it to your FLITZENSTREUBEN for breakfast in ze morning!!!! Now GO -- STOP pestering ze greatest movie star OF ALL TIME wit dis NONsense!

Mar 05, 08 - 04:14 pm Comment from: Anonymous©

Interestingly, Charles Cooper of CNET is a well-known Apple-disser.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:15 pm Comment from: the other steve jobs

Even after Bruce Chizen chided Steve Jobs at the Intel-announcement WWDC when he said "What took you so long?", it still took Bruce's company years to come up with a Intel version of anything....

i wish Apple would just buy Adobe.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:17 pm Comment from: nekogami13

I agree, flash sucks.
I thought over the life span of a product it was suppose to get better, as in faster and run more efficiently?
What happened Adobe?

@earthlingdave

Adobe could offer better quality at lower price. Flash player on Mac is a real resource hog and that ARM isn't Core 2 Duo.

I don't know bout the rest-o-u-macheads, but Flash has never, never, never been anyway near what I would call a useable piece of software.... even the so-called optimized product is slower than a constipated centurnarian on downers. For the life of me I cannot understand its seemingly ubiquitous appeal of net surfers. So, yes, please, keep this crap off of the iPhone until Adobe can make it worthwhile.

PeaceOut Yall

Mar 05, 08 - 04:20 pm Comment from: alansky

I worked at Adobe back in the days when they were best pals with Apple. Those days are long gone, brothers and sisters. Long gone.

NO, Apple will NOT buy Adobe -- I WILL BUY ADOBE!!!! I will take Bruce Chizen's SPHINCTERentzilVOSHEN and pull it up over his KANKLINpleitzen! ... right after I force him to sit thru a UNEEVERSUL BYE-NARY of my all-time action smash LAST ACTION HERO ! ! ! ! ! !

The flash mobile devices that Adobe is talking about in the article are using flash as the graphic interface for little mobile programs. The iPhone wants to use flash to render web pages on the fly which requires much more processing power. iPhone processor speed will probably catch up to Flash before Adobe rewrites Flash to be less bulky.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:34 pm Comment from: M. T. MacPhee

Ya see, Adobe, when ya tell folks that the preferred platform for Photoshop is the PC, there is always the possibility that what goes around will come around.

Michael Dell has some thoughts on that, I believe.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:38 pm Comment from: effwerd

Apple: Flash sucks.

Adobe: No, it doesn't.

This conversation is starting out well.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:58 pm Comment from: grh

Seriously...is there any chance Apple might buy Adobe? I rather wish it would but so many factors not known to outsiders influence such things. Is it listed on the stock exchange? Do a small number of individuals hold a majority of shares? Is there a friendly relationship at the lower levels (where it counts)? Would the Adobe board oppose an unsolicited offer?

Mar 05, 08 - 04:59 pm Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

The only question is: will Microsoft or Adobe be on display at the Natural History Museum first?

An alternate view to the ones completely siding with Jobs/Apple:

I'm no programmer or website guru, but I love some of the things Flash does. In the hands of good designers, some great websites were made possible. I hope Adobe can make it usable on iPhone sooner rather than later.

One thing about Jobs' statement that the fervent followers refuse to see is that it took them this long to develop an SDK for the iPhone. That was after many jailbreaks and unofficial development on the iPhone platform by Apple-outsiders.

Jobs' statement seems to be an attempt to deflect some of that negative attention away from Apple and refocus it on other targets. In this case, it was friend and long-time Apple supporter, Adobe.

Simplified, it goes like this:

Public: Steve, what took you so long to open iPhone development? We've been waiting forever. What's wrong with Apple?

SJ: Adobe's Flash is ancient and so slow!

MDN: Yeah Adobe. What's your problem?!

Public: Uhhhh... what was the original question again?

---

Sidenote:
Seems MDN is imposing a posting ban on individuals by not displaying the "Magic Word" above the submit button. So far, deleting MDN cookies sidesteps the ban.

Arnold,

your attempts at comedy suffer from the fact that you are not funny.

Please try again in another lifetime.

And thanks, MPC.

Many these negative Flash posts are from Adobe competitors. What a joke. Have any of you even looked beyond MDN and a few blogs, or actually used Flash beyond the intro tutorial? How many of you are so ready to accuse MS of evils, but put it out of their league to propagandize at MDN?

Remember Future Splash? - I do. I didn't like that application because the interface was very Un-Apple Mac - So I never used it. Well, guess what Macromedia bought it called it Flash and it still looks like Future Splash. It sucked then and it sucks now.

And since Adobe has bought Flash (via Macromedia) the improvements are - well - NONE.

Yeah, you can do a lot with it, but come on. You can do a lot with sticks and twine too.

Clearly, some folks jumped on the Flash bandwagon and never learned when it was time to jump off. Animation doesn't make a site better. Let Flash move to TV cartoon development permanently and away from the Web for about as long.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206901923

Adobe spokesperson Ryan Stewart: "I'd even go as far as to say that the Web experience isn't complete on the iPhone until some kind of Flash support is added."

Predictable response from an employee looking to push his company's product. I think moving the internet away from its dependence on plug-ins like Flash, and towards open standards which aren't dependent upon a single company, is an excellent idea. The fact that Apple is, in essence, using the iPhone to promote non-proprietary standards (H.264, the upcoming HTML5, etc.) is very healthy for the web as a whole.

MW "lower": As in, Steve's not gonna lower the bar for Adobe.

Adobe didn't think they needed to learn Xcode, because they've been waiting on the Microsoft gravy train to arrive.

They figured there was no need to improve their crappy media software, since it's going on 95% of the world's computers running Microsoft's crappy OS. But then the upstart Apple raises the bar and catches Adobe flat-footed.

Adobe is like a deer caught in the cross-hairs of fate's headlights. They don't know what to do. The old world order is crumbling so quickly all around them.

Mar 05, 08 - 05:57 pm Comment from: Ampar

"You can do a lot with sticks and twine too."

At first, I thought that said, "sticks and wine."

Both are true.

Macromedia buys Future Splash. Calls it Flash. Looks at the code for creation and execution. Scratches head and mutters "It works, add on top of it"

Many years later...Adobe is hungry. Adobe eat Macromedia. Adobe get flash. Looks at Photoshop, looks at flash. Too late to spit out. Keep in mouth until someone notices.

Maybe Silverlight will save the day. What do you say Zune Tang.

Mar 05, 08 - 06:15 pm Comment from: Mo

Adobe could have fixed Flash, but choose to make it even more closed and clunky. What a shame.

Mar 05, 08 - 06:22 pm Comment from: Hm...

My main problem with Flash was the extra -- and originally hidden -- cookie set up. People figured out how to manage web cookies to their own advantage, rather than an advertiser's, so Adobe responded with a new structure. A most heinous offense.

Mar 05, 08 - 06:54 pm Comment from: HolyMackerel

The iPhone has a 620 MHz ARM processor. If CPU speed is equivalent as a computer this is about 1/3 the speed of single core current low-range Intel CPU. On the iPhone we sacrifice CPU speed for battery/mobility, so maybe the Flash issue is true.

Yet there must be a QuickTime/H.264 graphics processor on board. for the movies and animations.

Mar 05, 08 - 08:38 pm Comment from: mreposter

possible conspiracy theory: Jobs talks Microsoft into turning over full technical details for Exchange support and Jobs agrees to add Silverlight to the iPhone.

steve is wrong about flash, as he is about divx. most web vids are in flash and i think that iphone owners are missing at least 50% of all free video playback. as for divx, i really do not understand why apple has not accepted this as an alternative form that consumers want.

my opinion on both: apple does not control flash or divx, just like it did not control mp3. thus they will only accept something that they can totally control.

sometimes you have to give up the little things to get the big things going. for example, by allowing itunes/ipods to play "inferior" mp3's, I was actually able to see that aac was better and now never make mp3's.

rick.

@rickw, Apple has usually relied on collaborative open standards like H.264 and MP4. I don't see the benefit of supporting power hungry resource hogging proprietory standards if they are going to bog down your good design just to allow people to see how inferior those standards might be. There is a serious marketing flaw in your plan. Adobe has got to man up to the task of improving flash to work well with a mobile platform that renders full workable web pages or lose out to superior technologies. As the Iphone numbers grow world wide I think it would behoove them to get off their collective arses and do so.

@bobchr

bob, your points are well made. however, i don't think that apple's ability to play flash or divx is dependent upon "power hungry resource hogg..." flash, as far as i know is not a power hungry application. for that matter, neither is divx. power hungry is h.264. it takes forever to transcode and burns up an ipod battery in no time flat.

my comments on allowing multiple systems was not to experiment and find out that h.264 is better, but to avail a hardware platform to play what consumers actually want. i am afraid that consumers love/like h.264, but in reality watch divx/avi. this is just a fact. it is time for apple to make products that encompass preexisting formats, while creating their own.

Mar 06, 08 - 12:48 pm Comment from: Mo

@rickw

open standards are better for everyone in the long run. When you have a single proprietary source for filetypes you are completely at the mercy of the source. Apple did not create H264, it is an ISO standard and anyone can create content using any tool they want. Just because something has a large adoption doesn't make it the best solution. Some things need to change.

Flash is crap. Period. Whether Steve Jobs says it or not.