“Adobe may rue the day it encouraged its product managers to run online blogs from its own site. It seems that the latest musing of product manager John Nack have unleashed a torrent of articles across the net from angry Mac users, annoyed that the company strategy seems inconsistent and worse still John Nack takes direct aim at abusing the very people who pay his salary, Adobe customers,” The Business News Source reports.
BNS reports, “In a final rallying call on his blog Nack makes the following vitriolic comments about the faithful customers (so called zealots) “Maybe I should, but as a die-hard Mac user I feel like someone has to speak a little truth to the Mac community–or rather, to that vocal little group of zealots and forum trolls. So here’s my message for those folks: You’re hurting the Mac platform. You’re hurting the Mac community. You need to crush a little aluminum foil against those antennae of yours, because you’re hurting everyone concerned. You’re making it harder (and less appealing) for people of goodwill to make the effort to support the Mac.”
“If attack were the best form of defense then certainly Nack has mastered this in one fell swoop. For any manager at such a highly visible and branded company as Adobe to be writing such stuff in a public forum is extraordinary to say the least,” BNS writes. “Our advise [sic] to senior management at Adobe is to ‘pull’ the blog and make sure that managers are made to tow the company line, leave PR to the PR specialists, such public ramblings from inexperienced managers surely can only do damage to the company image in the long run.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: We’d like to see a lot less talk and a lot more action from Adobe as we’re well past sick and tired of running Photoshop in Rosetta, thanks. Just how poorly is Photoshop coded, anyway? Adobe needs a serious attitude adjustment. There’s no excuse for making a large portion of your users – the very users of the platform that made your company, by the way – wait for so long to run your products natively.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Adobe Soundbooth audio software released as public beta – October 26, 2006
Apple and Adobe at war? – October 06, 2006
Analyst expects Adobe Creative Suite 3 release on May 1, 2007 – October 04, 2006
How long must we wait for Adobe to produce Universal applications for Apple’s Intel-powered Macs? – August 21, 2006
Adobe CS3 sneak peek shown on Apple MacBook Pro as Universal Binary application – May 25, 2006
Cringely: Apple must replace Microsoft Office, buy Adobe Systems for attack on Microsoft to succeed – April 28, 2006
Adobe CEO: Universal version of Photoshop due in spring 2007 – April 21, 2006
Adobe software engineer explains why Photoshop for Intel-based Macs is taking so long – March 24, 2006
Should Apple buy Adobe as leverage against Microsoft? – December 16, 2005
Adobe prefers (and promotes) PCs over Macs – March 24, 2003
Why is it that people get all bent when someone speaks the truth.
Mac zealots DO hurt the platform. The arrogance they sometimes display and their vile attacks on people via email just polarizes people against their argument.
Somewhere the people listening to it say, wow, if this is what the Mac community is all about, then I’m not going to try it.
They stop listening.
sugar > vinegar
> “Our advise to senior management at Adobe >
Advice?
What a little turd. What’s really sad is this is probably Adobe’s position to Mac users
You’re all just plain retards. He is not lashing out, it’s his own view of what Mac users do. And with wankers like you guys “we’re sick and tired of running PS under Rosetta” YOU are making it worse.
Personally I think Nack is right on. While the Mac is a great and superior platform, it does not have to power to make it’s users great and superior. The ones that are jerks are jerks whether they’re on a Mac or a Windows PC.
Oh yeah, Adobe does need to get their act together and get their product updated. They had a year at least to work with a deveopers kit to get us a Intel native CS2.
Adobe innovates only when Apple lights a fire under its … Final Cut. iMovie…. GrarageBand…
Adobe expects Apple to innovate by making it easier for Adobe to write cross-platform lowest-common denominator apps… Wake-up and create something for Mac users… worry about the MS users when they clamor for it…
Apple announced the switch to Intel at MWSF 2005. Most assuredly Apple advised its key partners in advance of the public announcement. That means that Adobe (who is being supported by Apple supplied engineers) has had at least 22 months to rewrite for the Intel processor, and most likely has had 25 months (so far).
That its taken this long (and still is not ready) says a bunch about the documentation and spaghetti like nature of Adobe’s code.
It would appear that Apple’s switch to Intel did Adobe a favor. It provided an excellent opportunity to clean up their codebase.
@Gregg Thurman
One would hope, but I doubt it.
John Nack and macromancer are spot on.
We have a segment of Mac users who bring us all down. All the Mac users I know are cool, normal people but what’s represented on the internet is a loud, obnoxious, immature, fanboy image.
Some people need to tone it down and stop being so hypersensitive.
I meant about Adobe fixing their mess
killBill … worry about the MS users when they clamor for it…
I think you meant to say … worry about the MS users when they bleat for it…
“…I feel like someone has to speak a little truth to the Mac community–or rather, to that vocal little group of zealots and forum trolls.”
What part of “–or rather, to that vocal little group of zealots and forum trolls” don’t you understand?”
He isn’t commenting on the entire Mac community.
Well, I’m assuming the entire Mac community aren’t zealots and forum trolls.
And weren’t people just clamoring for more employee blogs? And now we see one “we” (the hive) don’t agree with, now we want it “rein him in” and “pull the blog”?
—
“Adobe needs to provide a simple, consistent and clear strategy or message for the roll-out of its products and stick to it.”
—
They haven’t in a decade, why start now?
I say let the asshloe speak his mind, for all we know it IS the Adobe company line!
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In reality, Adobe is sh|t. They are forever going to be pirated and eventually Apple will incorporate drawing, layers and pixel editing into their apps and Photoshop will be as moot as MacPaint.
But is it really lashing out at loyal Mac-using customers? He’s a Mac-loyal person. He’s lashing out at the Mac zealots. I have to say, the zealots are a little crazy.
It’s called Mac Fundamentalism!
according to Adobe watchers, they make 72% of their profits from PC users. In their position I would not lose any sleep over mac users. sure 28% more would be sweet but no at any cost – I think they know that if Apple can do it they wll compete on the Photoshop field as well
I completely agree with John Nack. The one thing that slowed down my switching was Mac zealots. They are annoying, insulting and often just asses. They remind me of Americans who renamed their french fried to “Freedom Fries.” I don’t know anyone who respects the in-your-face zealots who have no point to make and sound mostly sound like “La la la, I’m not listening to Windows users, La la la, I can’t hear reason, La la la Mac is better, la la la, why do we have to wait for so long to run your products natively. I want an Oompa Loompa. I want you to get me an Oompa Loompa right away.”
I have the same opinion as macromancer.
There are PLENTY of uber-mac-faithful that go way to far sometimes and shed a strong negative light on the rest of the mac community. I’ll honestly say that some of the ultra-biased MDN takes that you guys write sometimes are perfect examples of this. Sometimes you guys can pull random, highly exaggerated things out of the air against small comments that your highly exaggerating in the first place. It’s one thing to be knowledgable and helpful, another to be smug and pretentious. Who would want to join a community of the latter?
What I did not see in the blog was an good explanation of why, if Adobe is using/switching to Xcode, it was not possible to produce a PPC/intel product. Some detail might have quelled the revolt.
As an Italian friend of mine likes to say “I am agree”. Macromancer, Alex, Bruce, all get the point that it is the kind of little snots who clutter up this and other boards with blind defence of Apple, no matter what, that sometimes give Apple a bad name. Apple is a great brand that makes great products, but we dont have to piss on each and every person who might have a slightly different view of the world. Stay off Nack’s back. All he did was say what many of us feel.
Photoshop is the same basic product it has been for the last 15 years. Adobe is like Microsoft. Releasing minor upgrades to the same product, spending as little money as possible to maintain high levels of revenue with low costs.
Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk, you can go on down the line. Large software companies making tons of money off old boring products.
If Apple, or anyone else for that matter, introduced an application with the features of Photoshop 1.0, bingo 90% of Mac users have no use for Photoshop. Especially if it used Photoshop plug-ins.
Gimp is there except for ease of install and using X11 being minor annoyances.
Zealots typically harm any cause the rant about. Nack was making a good point, however I do wish CS would run Universal now.
Adobe DOES risk a lot of bad PR by allowing management blogs. I wonder if they are vetted somehow with the PR department before posting.
Alex,
I see your point. However, you’re totally wrong about folks complaining about running CS in Rosetta.
Adobe has known about the switch to Intel LONG before the public did, and they STILL don’t have a Universal version of Photoshop. If it wasn’t for diehard Mac designers, photographers and retouchers, Adobe wouldn’t even BE here today.
Adobe can kiss my ass.
m
MDN word of the day? “Hard.”
As in “”Suck on it, Adobe. Suck it long and suck it hard.”
La la lLa I’m not listening to “For Real”…
I have to say I’ve been a little less than happy with Adobe’s business style, several thousands of $/£’s later and I know I’ll be having to fork out yet more…
Serious greed is a built in feature of MS, it didn’t need to be for Adobe, but then I reckon they got the virus from Richmond.
I heard that the CS isn’t in Xcode because Xcode can’t handle its size. So it does make me angry at the people who complain about how long it’s taking when they don’t know what they are talking about.
http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/2006/03/macintosh_and_t.html
Remember that writing for Intel requires migrating one’s code base to XCode. Not necessarily the easiest thing if your workflow had been centered around CodeWarrior. Should migration take this long? I can’t say, but if it were easy to write Photoshop, wouldn’t everyone be doing it?
As for Nack, he specifically targeted the “vocal LITTLE group of zealots and forum trolls” (emphasis mine), not Mac loyalists in general, with a perfectly valid point. I’m an extremely strong Mac supporter and Windows disser, but even I have some limits.
Seriously. When applications like Protools and Digital Performer, Final Cut, and even Finale are Universal now……what the hell is Adobe’s excuse? And what the hell is Microcrap’s excuse for no Universal binary of Word and Office?
Blaming zealots is a cop-out. The fact is, when Apple made the transition from 68XXX to PowerPC, Adobe was first in line with a PowerPC native application: Photoshop. It was ready to go when the first Powermacs hit store shelves. This time around, Apple made it even easier to make the transition, and Adobe will be one of the last to convert their code. The unavoidable conclusion is that the blame lies solely with Adobe.
Photoshop is such slow resource hog, that I use it to bench mark new Macs at the local Apple store. Slow machines take over 1 minute to start Photoshop, fast ones a little under 30 seconds. I have doing this test for over 4 years so, don’t anyone go and blame Rosetta for sluggish speed of Adobe Photoshop. It is and always shall be a cow, just like IBM products.
My last tests revealed:
fast tier:
Mac Pro – fastest
iMac – just a tad slower than Mac pro
slow tier:
Everything else taking 1 to 1.5 minutes to crank up PS.
F*ck Adobe. I’m glad I’m not a graphic artist so I don’t need any of their sh*tty outdated software in order to do my work. Sounds like Adobe and Intuit both need a major attitude adjustment. Hopefully Apple will just come out with their own equivalent versions of Photoshop and Illustrator and put these chumps under.
WHERE IS MY FREAKING UNIVERSAL APPLICATIONS ADOBE? NOW ALLL MAC ARE INTEL BASED AND IT’S HIGH TIME FOR YOU TO TAKE ACTION FREAKS!!!
people act as if Adobe owes them a favor, just because they’re the consumer. Gimme a break. Complain once they release the product.
this is only an issue for me because the CEO of Adobe – Bruce Chizen – made the comment at the WWDC where Steve announced the move to Intel:
“Steve, what took you so long [to move to Intel]?”
If he wanted to say “what a great idea” or “we think its going to be great for Apple and Adobe” fine..
but he made a snide comment about Apple’s slowness to getting to Intel – and they seem to be redefining how slow it can take to transition to Intel.
Apple moved an OS, and some of the most powerful apps on the planet to Intel in less time than it took Adobe’s CEO to make his snide comment.
that’s my real beef… i’ve practically moved totally to Aperture now, and don’t care all that much that Photoshop isn’t done yet. The few times i have to use Photoshop aren’t that big of a deal to me now that I can run a real digital photo business with Aperture just fine.
Is this a mindless defence of Apple by zealots? Seems more like a defence of a platform that is still supported by Apple’s most recent OS releases. This is not quite a valid analogy, but suppose Adobe released an application for Vista only–do you think XP users might be upset?
Please. Like Mac zealots are any worse than Windows PC zealots. Both are equally obnoxious.
All I know is Adobe is woefully late in getting a Universal version of CS out. If they were as tardy in getting an XP/Vista compatible version out, the Windows zealots would be all over them too.
Adobe needs to pull their head out of their @sses and quit blaming everyone else for their own internal problems.
You know, I saw the headline, and clicked on it ready to be incensed. But, after reading what was actually said, I have to admit he’s speaking the truth. I mean, sometimes we let our superiority complex get the better of us.
Yes yes, I know that OSX is far and away the world’s best operating system I also know that Apple’s hardware is elegant and beautiful. I would refuse to use computers completely if my only option were Windows (and since I make my living as a 3D Artist, that’s a pretty significant statement).
However, to constantly feel the need to hold that fact over the heads of the ignorant, or misinformed Windows populace, just makes us come off as looking like a bunch of self-righteous jerks. So, even though we are right factually in how we feel, the way we present it makes those who hear it either go on the defensive, or grow to lump us with the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Am-way Salesmen. (No offense to either intended, merely using other overblown and ludicrous social stereotypes to illustrate a point).
The fact that this came from who it did is a bit unusual, but I applaud him for having the nads to say it.
Now, let’s talk about what really is wrong with Adobe.
While it is true that Adobe is having to perform a complete ground re-write of Photoshop to make it UB, and in doing so, are forced to switch from the Software Authoring Environment they had been using over to Apple’s less mature – The software Adobe had been using previously being at least 4 revisions ahead – XCode. Which, although a very nice tool, simply doesn’t handle applications as large as a PhotoShop all that well. This is making the whole process take a bit longer, and for that Adobe, we can forgive you.
However, the other reason this is taking copious amounts of time is simple procrastination. When Apple made the switch from OS9 to OSX, Apple had a nifty little plugin that essentially allowed Cocoa Apps to run at 98-99% native speeds in a Carbon environment. This was a patch, a quick fix to give developers such as Adobe time re-work their software more and more into full Native over a period of time.
Adobe chose not to take advantage of that; resting instead on it’s laurels, and completely lacking any pro-active vision of the future, pursued a course of action for which we are all paying.
So, Mr. Nack, thank you for giving us a little shot in the arm, and force at least this Mac user to reflect inwardly. I will try to be a little more hands-off in my evangelical zealot Mac beliefs, and just hold the truths as self-evident. Now, having said that and making my peace, allow me to express how inappropriate it is to vent your frustrations of your Company’s inability to deliver product in a timely fashion – regardless of the reasons – on the vary people who are suffering most from that incompetence. The decisions of the past may have been made before your time, but when you signed on to the team, you took part of the burden for those mistakes.
In summary, no matter how justified your frustration may be; next time, Mr Nack, keep it to yourself. Now get back to work and get us our f*&@$#! UB apps already!
“Apple announced the switch to Intel at MWSF 2005. Most assuredly Apple advised its key partners in advance of the public announcement. That means that Adobe (who is being supported by Apple supplied engineers) has had at least 22 months to rewrite for the Intel processor, and most likely has had 25 months (so far).”
Apple announced the Intel move at WWDC 2005, six months later than MW. 15 months, not 22.
Adobe are being slow, but I’d much rather they take their time and get it right than rush half-arsed product to market to suit a bunch of forum banshees who probably won’t buy the software anyway.
I was wondering if I should use Photoshop or Aperture on my new iMac? I had CS2 for windows and was wondering what’s better. I haven’t tried APerture.
thanks
“You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy; we must be cautious…”
I think the points about the Apple fanboys/zealots giving the rest of us a bad name are spot on. You don’t need but a couple of days on this forum to know that, particularly if there is a particularly sensitive subject such as market share-or most of all-OS X security being discussed.
There have been too many abused bloggers/tech columnists who have pointed out this site as trouble for it not to be true. Some of them ARE complete DAs, but the virulent responses to ignorance or incompetance doesn’t make any of us look good.
And it’s only another six months or so, minimu, before the UB version of PS!
I’m so fed up with Adobe I can’t wait for Apple to come up with its competition. Surely it’s coming… I can’t imagine Steve would leave such a gaping vulnerability such as this. Do you hear him being pissed about this? No–that’s because he’s probably doing something about it. That’s more his style.
I can’t wait.
I agree with Nack. The original blog entry was addressing the anger that a small percentage of Mac users expressed after their new Soundbooth app was released, but ONLY works with Intel Macs, not PPC. Nack explained that Adobe wasn’t abandoning PPC users, that that was the wrong way to look at it. Rather, the switch to Intel made is simple to create a Mac version of this app because they didn’t have to write it for two different chipsets. In other words, if not for Apple’s switch to Intel, Soundbooth wouldn’t have been released for the Mac at all.
The lack of Universal version of Photoshop, et al is a different matter altogether. I agree that if they would have taken PS to Xcode back when OS X first came out, we’d have a Universal version already, but what’s done is done. Just move on. It’ll be out in April, and then everything will be fine. I look at it this way, by the time it comes out, the new Macs will blow away what’s available now, so it will be worth the wait if you haven’t upgraded yet.
This from the article was ridiculous too, “…Adobe needs to provide a simple, consistent and clear strategy or message for the roll-out of its products and stick to it.”
Adobe has said all along that it wouldn’t release a Universal version of CS until CS3, and that it would follow it’s regular 18-24 month upgrade schedule. They currently say that CS3 will be out in April, which is within that time frame.
I have a love/hate relationship with Adobe. I make my living with their software, and I truly feel that Photoshop is one of the best apps ever written, but I also believe that they need to show more appreciation to the Mac community, without whom, they wouldn’t be around today. That said, I also have to call them like I see them, and this is nothing to get excited about.
There are other alternatives, they need us, we don’t need them –
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/gimpshop.html
HE IS 100% CORRECT.
> … to that vocal little group of zealots and forum trolls
Yeah, that said it, Zealots and Trolls! So why take them seriously then? When has it not been like this?
Amazing, you think we Mac users are obnoxious zealots because you, Adobe, are slow and frequently late in updating products that cost us users lots of money. You, Adobe and a few others, get angry at Apple because the company produces rival products.
Come on Adobe, You owe your million dollar existence to these same Apple users.
lanklom
Does anybody ever think that this mac-fundamentalism is due to Microsoft dictatorism. The MS super power that wants to control every aspect of our daily computer life ? Do you remember what happened to Netscape browser, Lotus 123, or even WordPerfect. Now MS is trying to kill PDF format, iPod, and maybe Adobe Photoshop for mac is already dying. They want to make our life with Mac so miserable that we have to use Windows. It is time for us to stand together. Don’t you think ?
I can’t believe it! There really are some Mac “zealots” out there with some common sense. There is no question that John Nack is right. I am a Mac user and it upsets me to read so many posters that just can not accept any critical comments of the Mac without going bonkers.
Hey, I know JNack! I used to work with John at AGENCY.COM in the late ’90s, before I left (or rather, got the boot) for another company, and he soon after went to Adobe. We often worked on many of the same projects and were part of a little group of friends.
John’s always been a diehard Mac fanatic, though his loyalty was tested in those pre-OS X days. I remember him saying M$ had something relatively decent with NT/Win 2000, and Apple needed to do something soon. Which they did; those dark days are, thankfully, long behind us. I have no reason to question JNack’s loyalty to the Mac.
But even then, he kind of tempered his admiration for the Mac with a “let’s not get overly fanatical” approach that I’ll admit I could stand to learn from at times. Hell, I find the whole Intel-only approach of Soundbooth to be kind of a slap in the face, too. But then I read more about the reasoning behind it (one of the Soundbooth team members has a blog, too) and realized there’s more to it than “check the box that builds the app for PPC also.”
Dunno if he’ll see this, but . . . hola, JNack. Drop me a line, won’t you? My name at my name dot com still works.
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I would be happy for a native version of Photoshop 4.
Every version since has been bloatware.
What we really need is something other than Adobe. As far as I’m concerned they’ve far outlived their voluntary loyalty which puts them squarely in the MS category in terms of businesses that are simply full of themselves.
Adobe is just like any other business. Customers will come and go. Treat them poorly and they are less likely to return.
Hey Adobe, Apple writes great software.
All Apple needs to do is produce products like Photoshop and Illustrator and Adobe won’t have to wonder what happened to the Mac customers.
Being a Mac user and lumped into the Zealot category – no one likes to be called names.
Adobe – don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Here’s a clue to the trolls who infest this board (and others)…Apple screwed us and switched to Wintel hardware. Quit bitching, go out and buy a used G5 and your Adobe runs fine.
He’s right. That’s what kept me away from Apple for 15 years.
The zealots harm Apple by making it look like some sort of cult.
That’s “toe” the line…. ever see anyone tow a line? It’s geometrically impossible…
Interesting that all the complaints from the Mac community about Adobe are pretty much the same as my complaints about Apple:
Your stuff doesn’t work very well.
Adobe’s dislike for Apple began way, way back, when Apple and M$ developed TrueType to end Adobe’s goofball type system that soon was going to cost zillions to license.
Ever since, Adobe has turned the knife whenever it can.
As for Jack Nack’s rant, who cares? Of course I’m a better person than a Windows users. I’m just plain a better person.
By the way: To the soft pedaler posters on this MDN post; All the gee whiz Adobe ain’t that bad, and JNack’s a fanatic Mac guy BS is well, BS.
Just a few of the many facts are that when Adobe starting realeasing product for Windows the Mac clearly and obviously took a back seat, and it wasn’t long before Windows only products started being produced, and that remains the case to this day. Windows releases came out sooner, and now the Mac has to wait its turn in line, and it that’s not enough, we’re supposed to feel lucky that Adobe even bothers with Mac users at all. Those are just a few of the facts that Macintosh users of Adobe products have been and still are living with. All the while Adobe sloshes around trying to give us reasons why Macintosh users are supposed to live with this state of affairs.
Hey Adobe – Not all of us are being dupped by your lack of regard for non-Windows users, or your attempts at counter criticisms. Why don’t you just cut the cord and stop beating around the bushes. When Mac users no longer have to depend on you, maybe evolution (if such a thing exists) will take over and we can fish-tail back into the creative market place using the Macintosh running software made by a company that wants to make Mac products and sees it as a TOP priority.
Why Adobe, when I open Photoshop CS, do I still see the old OS 9 little clock with the hand turning??? Because of ten year old semi-ported code, that’s why.
Why Adobe, could you not afford an extra team to begin the OS X version at least 5 years ago when OS X first came out??
Because you’re a bunch of idiots and you really did’nt think Apple would survive, must less flourish, that’s why.
Why Adobe, does Flash refuse support many of the transitions applied in Keynote when exporting .swf files for the web??
Because you are just like arm-twisting M$, and you won’t work even with basic ISO standards like Quicktime, that’s why.
I was surprised to find his comments to be mild and fair.
I’d like Apple to ramp up an Aperture-iPhoto combo super-plus, then I could ditch Photoshop, which would make a lt of sense.
Still, let’s not be too unkind to Adobe — a friend of mine runs a vacation spot and got rewarded for good service with a very nice (and unexpected) cs2 ‘thank you’ gift.
A big part of the blame for the slow development pace of Adobe CS apps as universal binaries lies directly at Apple’s feet. Apple has continuously monkeyed around with the APIs and just about everything else since the launch of OS X. X-Code, while growing and improving with every release, was not well suited to huge projects such as Photoshop until very recently.
It is true that a lot of the old Photoshop code is old– very old, and Adobe has admitted to it. Photoshop and CS is not some $25 shareware app and has to be right the first time. As Adobe updates the code, updates it for Apple’s newer APIs, moves it to X-Code, and optimizes it for both PPC and Intel CPUs the development continues on the Windows version. So Adobe is having to hit a moving target (the feature set for the current Windows version) with a moving target (Apple’s API set) from a moving target (X-Code).
Apple has not been really kind to it’s developer community and the rapid pace of OS X development has not made things easy. Now that Apple has calmed down the pace of OS updates and it’s tools are improved, maybe things will get better.
I still don’t understand why Adobe’s recent software release is Intel only. XCode compiles universal binaries automatically. Yes, it requires additional testing and debugging, but the majority of the customer base is still on PowerPC. To say Adobe is dropping PPC support prematurely is an understatement. I’d be pissed too if I had a PowerMac G5 quad that was less than a year old and was told I can’t run Adobe’s new application, period. Idiotic.
John Nack can kiss my ass. What a fucktard. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Why Adobe, are you so scared of Core Image, etc.??
Because sooner rather than later, Photoshop is not going
to be needed and Core Image technology is just plain eating your lunch.
When, not if, Micro$in buys you out, Apple, with their modern Core Image, Core Animation, Aperture, and Final Cut Studio technologies will only shrug their shoulders. You are fast becoming a no longer needed aircraft carrier trying to turn to miss the dock, just like your soon to be parent.
You will eventually just call your company Flash, which, by the way, derived from an old Apple program call Futurewave Smartsketch.
Is they lack any competition.
Should Adobe has a truly competing PSD product in the market, a efficient code base would have made it to market, fully native to Intel-Based systems, by this fall at the latest.
Alas, Adobe has zero competition in its markets, and can afford to tell its customers to wait.
I was highly antisipating Apple to launch a PSD attack at the Photokina show in Europe this past month, but it did not take place…
The five-year long rumored Marklar (OS X on Intel) was indeed a reality. There are equal rumors of a PSD killer application waiting in the wings as well…
With Adobe having and now publically displaying the attitude we know they have, it seems a ripe time for Apple to launch a PSD killer native for Intel, we could all get our hands on – right now!
$299 would do the trick, and would sell in mass form to the creative world.
Lastly, my thought as to why this is not yet on the table is that marketing is waiting for Adobe to deliver their solution to the market. Then Apple can launch, without fear Adobe will simply pull up tent.
My my my aren’t people in a pissy mood today. of course their are Mac zealots but surprise surprise, there are many more PC zealots too (just read this forum). Who the hell cares. People who defend platofrms blindly come across as idots…..get over it. This is NOT the point.
Nack is a twit. Adobe, like any other company is in business to make money and it doesn’t hurt them in the least if some people call them poo-poo heads. Tht is just silly.
The facts are:
1) Nack is a retard who vents on a blog read by …ohh….15 people? Big geal we all get in a bad mood at times.
2) Adobe sucks up to Winows users because…now read this next part carefully…..that is where the money is!
3) Mac users are pissed because Adobe does not invest enough time and resources into expediting a universal binary. Does that make us unhappy…damn right. But that is life.
I am sick and tired of these A-holes who tell me I am not allowed to bitch. if I buy the product then I am allowed to bitch if I am unhappy…right Peterson?
Does if affect sales, not really….right Peterson?
Apple needs to buy Adobe (and then stop making PC versions).
http://www.g-zus.net/
Hey Buster – I got a laugh out of your post…
“I am sick and tired of these A-holes who tell me I am not allowed to bitch. if I buy the product then I am allowed to bitch if I am unhappy…”
For kicks – go to QuickBooks Pro web site and say something bad there regarding QBP for Mac…
You’ll recieve 50 posts of vitriol from the 12 people that know how to work the da *n program…
Doesn’t matter that it’s crap.
The saddest day for me in a long time was Adobe buying Macromedia.
Adobe – it’s people and some of it’s “experts” definitely have an attitude that was no where to be found in Macromedia.
Gimpy, you’re an idiot. And one of the people Jack Nack is writing about.
Gimp? Are you F&*^^%*NG serious? Did anyone do any serious design on Linux?
First of all, Nack’s comments weren’t offensive. Maybe he could have said it a little differently, but he’s basically right. Based on this headline, I thought it was going to be a lot worse than that!
And what is the big f’ing deal about running Adobe apps under Rosetta? We are running MacPros with InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop in a very intense prepress environment with no problem whatsoever. The MacPros under emulation are trouble-free and are quicker than even the G5 Quad (which I am typing on right now). I guarantee that there are few who are using these apps more intensely than we are in this company, period.
Now, I can’t speak so much for the performance on an Intel iMac, especially an earlier one. But if you’re using that, then you can probably deal with whatever speed you have.
All this whining about Adobe needs to go Intel native last year is annoying and ridiculous. It will be out soon enough, then you’ll have to find something else to whine about. You won’t find a better alternative to Adobe Creative Suite for the pro user for some time, so deal with it.
Why is anyone surprised?
Nack’s comments are correct at a certain level.
It probably IS Adobe’s view, but this didn’t happen overnight.
We saw Adobe redsigning Illustrator 7 and Photoshop 5 and Acrobat 3 to the PC side and then porting to the Mac side back in the late 90’s. Every software update for the Mac required learning the PC equivalen for the Mac short cut you had used since the beginning.
Don’t forget that Adobe created Acrobat to do away with the printing superiority of the Mac, the last stronghold of the Mac was the print community. Font incapabilities wih the Publishing houses and the lack of colorsync for the PC kept the platform afloat during the tough times.
If you want to see the mac platform flourish, then someone needs to create a true CS killer. Without competition, we’re just puppets on Adobe’s string.
I expected some sort of “attack” from the headline but all I saw was a little well meaning constructive honestly.
I agree with the comments that Adobe needs to get off the dime, & I’ve recently been very disappointed at how poorly Illustrator (the trial) does it’s basic job compared to a good (wonderful actually!) Mac program like Intaglio, but some of us Mac fanatices (since 1984) are entirely too sensitive to a little truth. It’s small minded and a shame that a great computer has to be burdened with a few fans like that.
I’ll never pay for photoshop anyways, no skin off my back.
If you call Mac users, who love all things Apple, zealots, what the hell do you call Windows users who love all things Microsoft?
Idiots?
Employees?
Bill Gates’ kids?
I have decided that with the exception of Adobe Acrobat Professional, I will never buy another Adobe/Macromedia product again. I have had it with the bloat… My last purchase was CS1 from Adobe – Macromedia was Studio MX 2004. No more…
I am switching to Freeway 4 Pro – much nicer to use than GoLive or Dreamweaver. I also use Rapidweaver, which makes some awesome websites. As for a graphics program, Graphic Converter does pretty well everything I need, so I paid and registered for the app.
Guess what Adobe? All these apps are UNIVERSAL too! Adobe is full of crap that they can’t move CS to Xcode more quickly. That is why I like smaller companies, because they are able to do things that big beasts cannot. LOL
Truth Detector,
“So Adobe is having to hit a moving target (the feature set for the current Windows version) with a moving target (Apple’s API set) from a moving target (X-Code).
Apple has not been really kind to it’s developer community and the rapid pace of OS X development has not made things easy. Now that Apple has calmed down the pace of OS updates and it’s tools are improved, maybe things will get better.”
Are you kidding me here. Over more than two decades I’ve listened to whinning from developers about how terrible Apple is to its 3rd party types. I guess I’m supposed to deduce that MS, on the other hand, is so very wonderful to it’s 3 party types, and never ever royally screws over good, creative folks who develop for it’s OS, such that, who would ever seriously consider spending any time at all developing for Apple’s computing platform? Is that what you really mean to imply? Really? Come on. The whole of MS is one huge moving target – an enormous and very complex moving target at that. And for your info. MS has screwed over hundreds of would be Windows developers in the most whimsicle and inhuman ways an over-bloated oganization could possibly think of.
Georgy Porgy,
I want to believe.
I wish Apple would create a Photoshop/Illustrator killer. That would serve Adobe right.
I agree with macromancer: Mac zealots do hurt the Apple platform. Adobe’s photoshop foot-dragging aside, this guy should be applauded for having the kahonies to speak out truthfully.
I didn’t say a word about Micro$oftopoly. Apple has driven developers nuts since the return of Steve Jobs. First the Carbon Libs, then OS X and each succeeding version of the OS has made significant changes in the API set. Then the Intel switch eliminated Code Warrior as an option.
I’m not making excuses for Adobe, they have wasted a lot of time by getting by with a lot of really ancient code by their own admission. When the Universal versions ship, it should be a major step up for all involved. Getting there, however, is not as easy as a lot of smaller and less integrated applications. The same is probably also true of the MacBU and Office:Mac.
“The saddest day for me in a long time was Adobe buying Macromedia”
The saddest day for me was when Adobe purchased FrameMaker, then killed it off for Mac users, and continued to support Windows. Taking MS lessons?
For Adobe, “sick my duck”
…or rather, to that vocal little group of zealots and forum trolls.
And when did our opinions ever change Apple’s or any other companies buisness?
Mighty Mouse absolutely sucks, but then Apple puts out a wireless one.
The iPod Hifi is not, but Apple stills sells it at a inflated price anyway.
The Metadata File exploit is still in circulation past two OS updates.
Nobody likes Trusted Computing and EFI making internet connections before the OS even is loaded, but Apple is forging ahead anyway.
So I ask, when does our fscking opinion matter anyway?
This guy’s comments would have a lot more weight if Adobe was actively supporting OSX. Mac has been operating on Intel chips long enough so that if Adobe had a priority to support it, it would be supported. Adobe’s problem is that it needs competition. If someone were to create a nice Photoshop killer that ran natively on the mac, you’d see Adobe coding like it’s ass was on fire.
While the comments are true to some extent, Adobe is still taking mac users for granted to the extent that when serious competition appears, mac users will abandon Adobe in droves
You know everybody can bitch and moan about Adobe, but I’ve been using computers ever since I bought a Comodore Vic-20 in the early 1980s, and Photoshop is the single greatest software program ever writtenfor the computer… bar none. If there wasn’t a Photoshop… I’d have little reason to even turn on a computer.
Adobe = M$ of the graphics world.
What were you expecting from such a company?
Maybe if everyone went back to work rather than reading and posting to blogs and discussion boards there wouldn’t be so much of a problem. Personally, I’ve never even met another (home) Mac user so I can’t really say I’ve been affected by this so-called zealotry. All the Mac zealots I’ve ever encountered have been on the internet. And who gives a shit what anyone on the internet has to say?
The Adobe Product Manager has good points. However, he should not writing such comments on a blog (personal or not) as an Adobe Product Manager. There’s a fine line between a “Mac Zealot” and a “Mac Enthusiast” and a “Mac-using professional.” In fact, there may be no line at all…
As the old addage goes “The minority give the majority a bad name”
“You need to crush a little aluminum foil against those antennae of yours, because you’re hurting everyone concerned. You’re making it harder (and less appealing) for people of goodwill to make the effort to support the Mac.”
Well at least you can’t pretend he doesn’t understand the average Mac customer.
The real partners have been let in on the true Apple plan. Migrate to Intel then migrate to Vista. Why would Adobe waste a lot of time doing Universal versions of apps?
MacZealots everywhere will embrace and praise Vista happily stating that they can now run photoshop natively on their Macs
And Adobe races past Quark in the ‘Treat Your Customer Like They Don’t Matter’ race.
George Bernard Shaw once observed that reasonable men conform themselves to the world. Unreasonable men expect the world to conform to them. Therefore, any and all progress is the result of unreasonable men.
This isn’t the first time Adobe has hung Mac users out to dry waiting for photoshop. How long did we wait for a native OS X version?
Adobe wanted Mac users to be “reasonable” and keep using and buying the OS 9 version. They took long enough to get an OS X version out the door you would think they had already cleaned up the crappy code. Yet here we are again, Strung out waiting, being told we need to be ‘reasonable’ while Adobe tries to get its act together.
Come on Adobe, get off your lazy butt and start conforming yourself to the world of crazy, hostile, zealots who are waiting to pad your bank accounts with millions of dollars for a decent product that will run natively on our computers.
Can Adobe really afford to alienate 30-40% of their loyal customer base? Can they afford to let rising in market share Apple develop a pixel-editor app to fill the void left by the non-intel native photoshop?
Can they really stand by and watch their flagship product go by the wayside like the also ran Premiere after Final Cut Pro came out?
There does appear to be a bit of an institutional attitude problem at Adobe. We attended an Adove seminar yesterday in Brisbane to see the new release of CS2.3 etc. As expected it was a pretty big selling exercise though I have to say the guy doing the majority of the presenting could have been better – better educated and better at presenting. Not only did he make numerous mistakes and was unable to answer the vast majority of the audience’s questions but in a few cases was actually quite rude to people posing what he obviously felt were difficult questions – responsing with sarcastic put downs rather than answers, pretty unprrofessional.
Additionally, the presenter dealing with Dreamweaver – previously from Macromedia (I’ve seen him before at MM seminars) was uncharacteristically smart too – in previous seminars he’d been superb. When asked why the Mac version of the new release of Contribute 4 continued to lack a lot of the features present in the Windows version, he responded by blaming the operating system and pretty much brushed it off…… hmmm, interesting. Picked it up in the short time integrated with Adobe staff?
If this isnt enough I asked the desk people taking questions in the foyer roughly when we could expect to see CS3 and instead of a ‘well, could be second quarter 2007’ (which is what I later got from the reseller supporting them there), I got ‘I can’t tell you that’. Oh, what not even a rough idea? I asked. ‘We’re a listed company’ she responded, we can’t tell you anything. Great sales technique I thought, not. It seems that market dominance does not a pleasant and helpful company make.
As if the fact that Adobe has deigned not to worry about bringing its software inline with Windows users or to even make an effort at making its software universal (I mean how long were those SDK’s available for?), but they’re also snippy and smart arsed about it. Geez
Looks like Adobe have been trying to be Microsoft for too long – looks like they’re getting there.
Now now. So indeed there are Mac zealots. What about PC zealots? Are there? Or don’t they have to be such?
If there are, how do they behave vis-a-vis other platforms? Could we learn from them? Or, are they as die-hard as the purported Mac zealots? A tit-for tat?
Privios comment:
“Photoshop is the same basic product it has been for the last 15 years. Adobe is like Microsoft. Releasing minor upgrades to the same product, spending as little money as possible to maintain high levels of revenue with low costs.
Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk, you can go on down the line. Large software companies making tons of money off old boring products.
If Apple, or anyone else for that matter, introduced an application with the features of Photoshop 1.0, bingo 90% of Mac users have no use for Photoshop. Especially if it used Photoshop plug-ins.
Gimp is there except for ease of install and using X11 being minor annoyances.”
And, “Adobe has had at least 22 months to re write the code and make a Universal version”
As someone who has bought EVERY version of Photoshop since version 1.0 – Adobe are you reading this – I will jump at any other application that equals Photoshop! Adobe has long ago told me I don’t matter squat – my support of them they care nothing for. So, Adobe, If Apple writes a Photoshop competitor – I am GONE – GONE FOREVER! You have long since lost my continued support by not caring about your installed base – instead concentrating on writing a program to compete with Aperture.
I was beta testing Lightroom – no way – NO WAY will I ever buy it!
DO YOU READ ME ADOBE?
Never again Adobe if there is a choice…..
In the past Quark inc. disparaged the mac community and attempted to become a “Windoze first” shop and subsequently became a Has-Been.
Adobe may have $ in their eyes, but we that must truly use these tools for our livelihood will PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS!
Just ask Quark!
Adobe better watch out. Apple could release their own CS 3 for half the price or even bundle it free with pro machines.
Not because they want to, because Adobe would be forcing them to.
<b>I do have to agree with him, please stop whining! At first i didn’t want to bother but i have to get this of my chest and in to some thick skulls around here. This once again proves that Mac users are ignorant and arrogant people with no personality other then their Mac. Look further d*mmit then some attention starving inciting Apple vs Adobe article.
Bashing down on Adobe for not delivering the tools you need, but why? Because the other Mac-users are doing it? Because you assume you know how Apple and Adobe disclosed this deal? Don’t be a sheep. It is you and only you who made a stupid decision when you bought a Intel Mac only because your holy leader Steve said so, NOT because you actually needed it.
If you’d paid attention you did know that Adobe made a clear statement about how and when they are going Universal. And you know that your ‘old’ G5 runs the tools where your waiting for ‘insanely’ fast, hell even the latest G4 will do the job smoother then Rosetta on a Quad. And you should know that transitions are always painfully and eventually pay off, and as a sidenote i believe that this one is the smoothest transition ever. You also might know that the hardware transition to Intel went a lot faster then first projected by Steve Jobs. Suppose it went like Steve <strike>lied to</strike> told us you could buy a Mac Pro at the end of this year and have all Adobe tools within half a year, hows that for a fast transition. But things went a lot faster for Apple on the hardwareside because Apple knows how to keep their shareholders happy and knows where the money is and its not with you guys, its the home-user not the pro-user.
So instead of bashing down on Adobe you should learn how to support a difficult transition like a fan and not make it even more difficult for the other guy who is working his *ss of to get the product out. People really have no clue these days other then demanding instead of paying attention.
So once again, it proves a lot of Mac users are ignorant, arrogant and your personality stops when you pull your magsafe plug out.
Cheers, Cheyenne<b>
<i>Proud user of a iMac G4, iMac Core Duo, Macbookpro, AMD Athlon X2 4200, Intel MacMini and not buying a Mac Pro yet because Steve told me too<>
wow…so much hate around this forum. this may be my last visit.
Uhm, ya, Adobe better watch out, cuz us mac users will all start running gimp. Of course, we’ll have to use X11 (instead of rosetta)… and give up cmyk. But we’ll teach Adobe! They are obviously a small player in graphics and publishing. (Do I sound like a snide mac zealot?)
I’m ex of Apple, Macromedia and Adobe – boy there is much to tell- but I can’t !!! But still first let’s understand that Adobe people love Apple, and really wish they were at Apple, but they’re not so they’re sad about it – see Nack- he’s sad. So next problem is that Adobe never really developed anything, it always bought it in; Aldus, Interleaf, Macromedia, GoLive etc etc and burns it off (note even Photoshop started life as ImagePro). In fact the only product they really succeeded with was acrobat – think display postscript and you’ll see where it came from ie the only original Adobe product. Second Apple love Adobe, but never understand why Adobe doesn’t love them, and why Adobe do Dumb things – like promoting Photoshop on Sun (doah!!). So Apple think hmm Adobe are basically unstable, so we’ll do this whole multimedia thing ourselves – they then buy KeyGrip from Macromedia (now Adobe) formerly of the Adobe Premier team – clean it up sell it as FCP and soon everyone wants its – hmm looks good people are buying Macs again to do this video thing. Next Apple goes on a spending spree to buy stuff and strengthen its media market. Adobe goes – hey dudes, we’re not supporting Premier on the Mac anymore and don’t mess with us on Photoshop. So Apple goes OK and brings out Aperture and this really gets Adobe p*st, so next there’s a big bake-off in the imaging world and Adobe gets upset and loses everything. Of course Apple have a photoshop killer – we all saw it three years ago at wwdc (but nobody realised what it was). All this bull about plug-ins etc – please !!!! FCP supports them still – look they’re ALL there. So it’ll happen Jan 2007 – watch
d40i9zmc0r0 http://www.684369.com/1096926.html 3ytiglgo
geezus. Learn from history. The owners of Adobe created PDF from the labs they worked at when Warnock and Geschke worked for Xerox. Back then Adobe was being innovative. Now? They stifle innovation by anybody that competes with ADobe. When ADobe bought Macromedia we essentially became the USSR of software. Macromedia was ALWAYS the innovative leader that Adobe copied. Macromedia was ALWAYS the pro-mac company that worked with Apple to push the envelope of what you could deliver through the pipe.
Now that Adobe, in our utterly un-regulated society, has killed it’s only real competitor, us Mac users should face the cold hard truth that we have been sold out. 10 years ago we had 50% market share. Now 5%. With no free market to defend innovation? Do the math!!!