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May 02, 08 - 01:43 pm Comment from: NeverFade

Adobe is the 5th largest software vendor.

MS is number 1.

Who ranks 2 - 4?

Just curious...

May 02, 08 - 01:46 pm Comment from: Buster

I flash for free too!

adobe = cunts

May 02, 08 - 01:52 pm Comment from: Ampar

Props to Jim - TIV.

Yay! Flash!

Will probably have to get the iPhone 2 to get much use out of it if not on a WiFi connection.

Hopefully, it doesn't cause iPhone to crash more than it already does.

One of the reasons I plan to buy the iPhone is that it automatically deletes all the Flashturbation I don't want to see in the first place. Make my iPhone experience more like the web? You mean I can have a handheld computer with sites that requires endless rounds of plug-in downloads, and site incompatible with anything except IE? I'll pass in favor of an open standards approach.

May 02, 08 - 01:56 pm Comment from: ron

@me, you must be British. Correct?

May 02, 08 - 01:57 pm Comment from: Logan

flashturbation...

that's a winner right there.

May 02, 08 - 02:04 pm Comment from: THE.MAC.GOD

Whatever you say about Flash, you DON'T have the internet in your pocket without it. You have the crippled version.

I can't tell you how many I've almost sold to friends and family until I mention it doesn't have Flash, which negates every video/medium-multimedia site aside from YouTube.

Whatever they need to do, they should do it. Get over it.

We need to coin a name for all these companies who are suddenly "opening" their still-proprietary systems or technologies, so they can basically get non-employees to work on their code for free. (Microsoft's "open" intiatives, anyone?)

The internet is moving towards open technologies, away from proprietary plugins like Java and Flash. So now the Flash folks are using the "open" buzzword in their "Open" Screen Project, to try to distract from the still-proprietary nature of Flash.

Plus the fact that the lack of Flash in the iPhone automatically neuters the most annoying web ads out there - I see that as a plus, not a minus.

I'm not sure what Apple's motives are in all of this, but anything they can do to push people away from the invalid assumption that Flash exists in all web browsers is a good thing.

MW: wanted, as in Flash really wants to be wanted.

May 02, 08 - 02:28 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

@Ampar... yeah, I had to clear my cache after surfing that site! lol

May 02, 08 - 02:28 pm Comment from: The Other Steve

I may be a Flash critic, but I still would like to see it on my iPhone. (with an option to turn it off in the system preferences)

If the delay forces Adobe to optimize it for the iPhone (and for other web designers to look for alternatives) then it will be worth the wait.

But I still would like to have it some day soon.

these adobe people are slowwwwwly forgetting about their core customer: the graphic artist. these fools will go the way of qvark, mark my words.

the new plugin architecture of aperture is only the beginning.

as a graphic artist with experience that predates adobe, inc. i can tell you that i have seen them come and seen 'em go.

anytime a company trades in its customers as a forgone asset is on the slippery slope to oblivion.

um flash like Java isn'tallowed on the iPhone according tot he iPhone SDK EULA. No running of external files.

flash will need a special waiver before it can be used on the iPhone.

Have to agree with THE.MAC.GOD, without Flash (even with all it's inefficiencies) the iPhone and iPod Touch are simply not true Internet devices regardless of whether it's on EDGE, 3G or WiFi. Hell, I'd even like to see WMV support since some sites I favour still unfortunately only use (Ugh) Windows Media...Of course that won't be on the iPhone in our lifetime, unless somebody comes up with a great hack with the SDK...

To market a device as a true no-compromise Internet device, you have to support popular formats, even if they're proprietary...what good is seeing the full webpage if the key part of the page is Flash-based, and replace with a jigsaw puzzle piece icon???

I haven't seen an Adobe product that isn't bloated and runs too slow, on almost any hardware. How in the world are they going to make a Flash player for mobile phones that works fast?

The iPhone is probably the most powerful mobile internet device out there, and Flash would likely drag it down. How slow will other phones be? Yikes!

May 02, 08 - 02:40 pm Comment from: macoverdose_dot_com

I love flash.... but its gonna need to be completely retuned to make any kind of revelant splash in the mobile market... flash lite is a joke at best

@Neverfade

I believe on the largest list, you will find Oracle, SAP, Apple, IBM, HP, Intel. There could be others. I have forgotten. But I seem to remember the 5 of the top 10 list were in California, one in Washington (MSFT), one in NY (IBM), one in Germany (SAP), and one in China(?). I did not see Adobe on that list though.

May 02, 08 - 02:55 pm Comment from: Metryq

@THE.MAC.GOD, "Get over it"? The tough guy trump card. So according to your argument, nothing should ever be changed no matter how bad it is? Flash puts the onus of rendering on the end-user (a good solution when ISP speeds were slower), and mobile devices don't have the beef for that. The iPhone's touch screen also doesn't cater to roll-overs and other mouse conventions. So even with Flash bloating an iPhone and wasting power, users should still just "get over it"?

May 02, 08 - 02:58 pm Comment from: qka

@ BSOD

HP & Intel??? Yes, while they are known for hardware, they do some software. But enough to be at the top of the pile? I don't think so.

Oracle, SAP, IBM (includes Lotus) - definitely.

Softbank - maybe. Ditto PeopleSoft.

Adobe had to. Apple is getting quite influent what communication's concerned and could have a tremendous impact within the next years with a strong QuickTime inhancement. Adobe has to consolidate it's "not without me" strategy.

May 02, 08 - 03:01 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Adobe is actually number 9

http://softwaretop100.org/list.php?page=1

Number 9
Number 9
Number 9

May 02, 08 - 03:56 pm Comment from: Mo

No Flash please, there are better ways to do things and the iPhone SDK will foster some really creative "Flash-like" stuff that doesn't require the evil Flash player. Brilliant move Apple!

there are websites out there (A LOT) that are flash only. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to open safari, type in the URL, and see the little blue icon and not be able to access ANY part of the site. Say what you will but Flash has a BIG base on the web. it may be bloated, etc., but I personally feel like safari is not really a browser unless it can display flash sites, and flash within sites!

May 02, 08 - 07:57 pm Comment from: shen

"Finally, Flash Lite is priced what it's worth."

they are going to send me $5 every time i download it?

May 02, 08 - 08:37 pm Comment from: Mo

You see lots of sites that give you a choice to enter the Flash Site or the HTML site, yet they look and function exactly the same...well not really...the HTML site is usually faster and has more standard functionality.

People are paying premium prices for sites that don't even need it and then paying the same expensive Flash developer again to do simple updates. It's madness!

Look at the the Apple site. It has a ton of interactivity, look at those beautiful push down menus and the super clean, functional and scrubbable video controls. Beautiful...and not one swf.

Folks have come to believe that the internet NEEDS Flash. Do we? I'll bet most sites don't.

Take on the MDN Take: Adobe sucks, Apple is great. Hey...... can someone change my diaper.

Losers. I WISH my iPhone supported Flash.

May 03, 08 - 12:08 am Comment from: TowerTone

It'll be great having flash on my iPhone.
Maybe now the pictures won't be so dark......

May 03, 08 - 02:00 am Comment from: nekogami13

Flash is atrocious.
I for one do not miss it nor want it anywhere near my computer, iPod touch or any device I own.

They can take Java and stick it someplace with flash.

May 03, 08 - 12:05 pm Comment from: DogGone

Apple is #36 according to the site above.

@ DogGone

True but, according to that site Apple achieve that position on just 3% of their total revenue!

SW Revenue 2007 (mln US$) 653
SW Revenue 2006 (mln US$) 572
SW Revenue Growth 14.20%
Perc. Of Total Revenue 3%

SW Revenue Calculation 50% Software

Total Revenue (mln US$) 21601
Employees 17787
SW Business Sector Operating Systems, Computer Hardware

Perhaps this will put an end to people saying apple should change their business model & license OS X.

May 03, 08 - 05:56 pm Comment from: Hm...

Most unfortunate it is that Flash like a virus in the internet has become. Powerful with Dark Side Adobe is...

"to help developers make mobile Internet experiences more closely resemble the experience on computers,"

Yet another big corp that doesn't get it. And...
@Mac God, "Whatever you say about Flash, you DON'T have the internet in your pocket without it. You have the crippled version."

The web is just one part of the internet, and flash is not any part of the standards for the web, it's a proprietary add-on with which adobe hopes to own the web.

MW: soviet

If Flash can be made to work well on the iPhone with a desktop-equivalent experience, why shouldn't they go for it?

But from what I know (working with Flash/Flex development for a living) there are some fundamental philosophical/architectural problems that make that unlikely in the near future.

A lot of what Flash is being used for these days (aside from pointless, trivial uses like interactive ads and site intro animations) is to provide things that require a significant amount of client horsepower like interactive 3D, video playback, stateful-client apps that handle large data sets and visualization, etc. Flash used to suck for this kind of stuff, but Flash Player 9 added a new VM and JIT compiler that makes a big difference. Adobe is pushing Flash further in this direction with new technologies like AIR.

I would argue that this puts Flash in direct architectural opposition to the HTML-based web, which, despite its trend toward hosting applications with Web 2.0 and AJAX, is fundamentally rooted in a document-markup and rendering design. One demands a lot of processing power on the client (and is designed with a single form of output in mind), the other is designed to be, at least in theory, renderer-agnostic and scalable in fidelity.

Flash Lite may provide some niceties for a WAP-style phone browser, but it's nothing like the full version in terms of usefulness and capability, and it would not be particularly useful on the iPhone (the whole point of the device's web capability is to be freed from "mobile" versions of content to use the full, normal thing)

If it was called Apple Flash, no changes in the products, MDN would be on its Knees, unzipping there Steve dolls.

May 04, 08 - 12:26 pm Comment from: Ampar

" . . . unzipping there Steve dolls."

Please stop skipping English class. Idiot.

"The internet is moving towards open technologies, away from proprietary plugins like Java and Flash."

The Java plugin is no longer proprietary. Now, if only a recent version of Java could actually run on most Macs...