MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

How does one extrapolate "patience wearing thin" from the phrase ". 'Everyone I talk to doesn't know anything.'" on an Adobe blog?

Just goes to show, if there's no news, then just make it up to get clicks. Thats the world we live in now.

youtube is great and all, but I need Flash to play youporn on my phone. You know what I'm talkin about.

adobe needs to learn that flash is NOT an internet standard and trends with developers are last moving away from its use, i love having almost no ads on the iphone, and i havnt yet needed to go to the page of a new car or computer game with heavy flash load times, i hate them.

apple wants to know why it took a year to get Photoshop in Universal code, and why director still isnt universal.

oh snap

Feb 20, 08 - 03:29 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

This article is a complete and utter load.

My iPhone needs Flash. That Flash support isnt included is rediculous.

Feb 20, 08 - 03:30 pm Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

As Jerry said above, Adobe hasn't exactly shown glowing support for Apple users over the past few years, so why should Apple support them without something in return.

Sorry Adobe, think Mac before Windows on your next update and maybe Apple will think of you when they release a hot product.

I think this guy is telling it like it is.

Feb 20, 08 - 03:37 pm Comment from: DogGone

I'm sure there are both technical and business reasons why Apple have not provided support for Flash yet. Could be potential viruses, crashes, greater processor load to why promote a technology we don't own and do get any money from.

Since apple choose EDGE over 3G because of its nationwide coverage, I wonder if flash has NOT been enabled because of its bandwidth usage, and need for "powerful" hardware to run.

Perhaps the iPhone simply cant run flash to the satisfaction of Apple.
They say we didnt get 3G because of the power hog it is. Same may be true of flash.

I mean youtube switching to H264 meant better compression and a softer blow to EDGE to carry it to the iPhone and iPhone being able to run it without hammering the battery.

Feb 20, 08 - 03:47 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

Frankly, I'd like to see an ad blocker developed for iPhone's Safari before I see Flash. It's something that would be nice to have, but I've had my iPhone since September, use Safari heavily, and I can count the number of times I've really missed Flash on one hand.

The only way to make sense of this article is to consider that the author was leaned on, or paid, to write this by someone from Adobe.

Throughout the article there are deliberate untruths, each of which is intended to suggest that Apple needs Adobe flash or sales will suffer.

The quality of american journalism, with few exceptions, is abysmally low. This site is a good indicator of that, with MDN making repeated, and often obvious, corrections to articles about Apple. Yet I do not think, for a minute, that journalists are ignorant and sloppy only when it comes to writing about Apple.

Publications should be forced to print corrections and retractions, like reputable newspapers and journals do around the world.

What is the value of truth in America today?

I'd like to request a way to turn off MDN's commentary within articles so that I could read the actual content without having to skip past all of the Apple fan-boy asskissing. It really is annoying. I appreciate the links to all of the stories, but I could really care less what MDN's take on them are.

Thanks.

Feb 20, 08 - 03:57 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

Thanks for that confirmation C1.

Otherwise my gut reaction is: What's the big deal, Adobe took their sweet time getting CS3 to OS X, and if Adobe really wants to kick things up a notch in its favor how about providing a non-flash-based h.264 media player for the iPhone. In the real world the truth is that Flash is just another vehicle for increasing Windows installations because, up to now, there have not been any OS X based flash servers for media industries, like broadcasting, the one I work in. Every time we get a Flash rep in here it's always a discussion of how many Windows machines will be needed and how expensive it will be "to do it" on OS X versus Windows, and blah blah blah. From a content provider standpoint, incorporating Flash requires buying into Windows. What's up with that!?

But if you say the article is a load... then never mind.

It pains me to bring these articles to you, but you should all read these to get a different perspective as to why flash isn't on the iPhone:

http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2007/07/31/flash-on-the-iphone-whats-holding-it-back/

http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/02/13/adobe-clueless-about-flash-on-iphone-technical-hurdles-remain/

As a UI designer and Flash developer, I can tell you I would love to see Flash on the iPhone - but only if it could work as well as it does on the desktop - and we all know that flash is pretty much a memory hog, no matter how cool the UI for the application may be.

The other thing that most of us don't consider is that Flash is really tied to the notion of mouse-interaction - consider how, in an immersive flash experience, how many rollover effects you encounter and how they form the feedback loop, enhancing your experience. The iPhone has no "rollovers", no mouse feedback, so the way flash listens for and responds to user interaction would have to change fundamentally. This may the biggest technical hurdle that stands in Adobe's way to port a player to the iPhone - no to mention performance enhancements that will allow it to run in the much smaller memory footprint of mobile OS X.

For now, it seems that flash simply can't make it to the party in its current form.

Hey Chester Cheetah why don't you just leave this site and read the original article if you don't like the commentary.... Looks like they provided the link... Buh Bye

If people can't figure out the two main reasons Flash is not yet supported on the iPhone, you need your head smacked:

1) Significant battery drain
2) Touch-screen ability to interact with Flash. Development is required to sync Apple-s multi-touch functionality to work with embedded flash gui controls. Basically, right now if you watched a flash video, you couldn't pause, rewind, stop, etc.. Apple needs to adapt the multi-touch controls to work with Flash much like they did to work with browsers (touchable HTML links, YouTube controls, Zoom in/out, etc.)

You know there is a lot of interaction and motion and videos on Apple's website and there is absolutely no Flash.. If you create a good website based on standards then you really don't need Flash at all..

Feb 20, 08 - 04:08 pm Comment from: cptnkirk

Unfortunately, Flash was one of the key entry points for viruses in the past. Steven wanted to be sure that the iPhone was totally secure. Who wants their phone crashing from a viral load!!!???

Flash sucks and needs to die a death that will no doubt be painful for Adobe. Tough luck. If Apple can leverage iPhone to help kill a weak, proprietary technology, I say more power to 'em.

Feb 20, 08 - 04:10 pm Comment from: maclife

Flash please - I'm tired of seeing place-holders when I go to some sites. YouTube is not the only site I visit and Apple surely can't make all sites conform to their needs. That developers are moving away from Flash - well I'll take mine until that time. Initial ads for the iPhone stated users could view the "real" internet and not a stripped down version. Clearly we've gotten a slightly stripped down version by not having flash. I love my iPhone btw - I paid for the best, I just want to be able to access the majority of available site features while using its browser. I hate the fact that lesser msft based pda phones come enabled with the ability.
Lets hope Flash is forthcoming in a pending firmware update.

As an iPhone user, I hope that Apple NEVER supports Flash in the iPhone. Flash needs to go away. Annoying technology. Adobe paid too much money for Macromedia. All they got was aging, proprietary animation software and a static-site web editor. Oops!

Hey Chester,

Get your news somewhere else or STFU.

Flash sucks. Just leave it off, no support. The last thing I'd like to see on an iPhone are those low class blinking advertisements with moving eyeballs. If the iPhone does get Flash support, I hope they give us the option to turn it off.

Yeah, let's get flash on the iPhone/Touch so I can see all the annoying animated crap I am missing now.

I don't want or need flash.

jeez, the posts on here are extra-retarded today.

Soon as you you see the (completely unnecessary and inflammable) word 'exalted' you know the writer has an agenda.

Adobe, Flash is coming to iPhone as soon as you make Flash anything less than a battery sucking resource hog
and make it work with Keynote's export in SWF. Only a few of the transitions work from Keynote. You're at version 9 and don't have any excuses. Quit blaming the other fella, Adobe.

It's a shame now that Flash originated from a great little Mac only drawing program called Futurewave Smartsketch. I still run it along with PhotoShop on my OS 9 machine. (I will never pay $600 for Photoshop again).

Hey Tom,

Get your comments somewhere else or STFU

Maybe if they gave us decent performance on the Mac and didn't make it take up so much of the CPU, it would've already been on there. How the hell do they expect flash to work even sort of decently with its dismal performance on OS X? And they expect Apple to make their device look slow because they can't get their act together and properly support the platform that created and sustained them despite their obvious disdain for it?

Feb 20, 08 - 04:34 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@little tiny nitch guy:

Your "nitch" may not be as little and tiny as you think. Even before this posting it was becoming clear to me that Flash has not got any kind of end-user majority behind, and from a content provider side, the only reason it does have support is because it gives the broadcast industry an excuse to get even more deeply entrenched into Windows - which is required if you want to serve up Flash on a large scale... Thanks a lot Adobe - Apple "partner" ole buddy ole pale.

Add, en ratio, the negative comments about Flash you see here and it makes you wander why Flash has the free reign that it currently seems to enjoy...? I'm with sticking to established and open standards and weaning ourselves of Adobe and MS proprietary content and markup technologies.

It annoys the hell out off me when macdailynews.com peeps put their 2 cents in each article. Just fscking report it and let the readers judge. Maybe instead of rambling they should just but a star system, 0 stars for a shit article and 5 stars for a bad ass article

Feb 20, 08 - 04:46 pm Comment from: Ampar

To Chester Cheetah: You might be the only one. Did you ask yourself who runs this site? Go on. I dare you.

@Mr. Peabody, agreed.

Adobe has turned itself into an MS wannabe. Sad but pathetically true. They want Flash to be some kind of ActiveX-like poison.

Feb 20, 08 - 04:47 pm Comment from: Ampar

To Annoyed (Chester): Let us know when your Mac news site is up and running. Thanks.

Feb 20, 08 - 04:53 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Flash is evil.

Please, keep it off my iPhone.

Feb 20, 08 - 05:06 pm Comment from: Ampar

To Mr. Reeee: Actually, I'd like to be able to choose which plug-ins I can run.

Any comments as to why Apple dropped support for Flash in Quicktime? That's disturbed quite a few developers on the Mac. Is there any connection to this and the lack of Flash on the iPhone?

"The lack of Flash Player is though an oft-cited reason why someone wouldn't buy it, according to a number of different Apple online user forums."

Okay, maybe I don't hang around the same forums as this guy, but I have yet to see somebody say, "I'm not buying an iPhone until it supports Flash."

3G? Yes. More memory? Yes. An SDK? Yes.
Flash? Nope.

Feb 20, 08 - 05:21 pm Comment from: Spark

"iPhone's exalted mobile Web browser has been off limits to nearly all videos delivered over the Internet."

Okay... I buy this.

"That's because the browser isn't compatible with an Adobe-made media player, known as 'Flash Player,'"

I don't buy this. Flash doesn't control "nearly all the videos delivered over the Internet", so Charny's ipso facto conclusion, and basis for a story, falls apart.

There is no doubt that the iPhone has some growing room for displaying web based video, but I don't consider Flash to be the most important. I cannot view web QT videos. How about working on that first.

H.264 and AAC audio rocks, end of story.

How about Adobe fixes the lingering bugs with CS3 and Leopard before they start worrying about other things.

I do not believe that Apple wants to establish Flash - a proprietary standard that they do not own or control - as a standard for mobile internet viewing. John Gruber of Daring Fireball may have said it best (below). But to be fair, like John, I've been wrong before:

"But why exactly would Apple do this? With fewer than eight months on the market, MobileSafari — sans Flash support — already has the largest market share of all mobile web browsers. Companies large and small are writing MobileSafari-optimized web sites and web apps, using HTML/JavaScript/CSS. Apple is on the cusp of releasing the Cocoa-based native SDK. The single most popular thing people use Flash for is to watch YouTube videos, which you can already watch a subset of using the native Mobile OS X YouTube app. In short, is the lack of Flash keeping people from buying iPhones and iPod Touches?"

http://daringfireball.net/2008/02/news_flash_no_flash

Better question: When is the Intel-based version of Shockwave coming from Adobe?

Feb 20, 08 - 05:56 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

Why Adobe started making software for MACs is beyond me. Maybe they felt sorry for MACs. They had such a great start with Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop on Microsoft Windows, then came Photoshop 4 for MAC and they haven't been the same since because they have to support two platforms.

Hey Adobe, drop making software for 2% market share MACs and get back to your original platform: Microsoft Windows. Stop letting Cupertino from holding you back.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Flash will come to the iPhone when a need for it emerges.

-jcr

>"You don’t need to have Flash to show YouTube. All you need to do is deal with YouTube.


How about having Flash on the iPhone to view Flash-based websites? YouTube is cool, but so many sites (and their features) rely on Flash for good reason.

When's Adobe getting off their lazy A $ $ and rewriting this crap bloatware called flash so that it's actually better optimized and not such a waste of resources?

1. Flash is a cool technology
2. Unfortunately, it sucks up way more resources then it should for mobile usage and…
3. It is usually implemented in the most useless way possible.

Ever wonder why most Flash pages have "Skip this page" option? Cause if they didn't you'd skip the entire website!

iPhone web usage is 50 times higher than all other platforms. Clearly, Flash is not a priority.

@msr

'Maybe if they gave us decent performance on the Mac and didn't make it take up so much of the CPU, it would've already been on there. How the hell do they expect flash to work even sort of decently with its dismal performance on OS X? And they expect Apple to make their device look slow because they can't get their act together'

I absolutely agree with you on this.
I use the Camino browser alot & it burns cpu only when Flash is running on a web page. Thankfully Camino can turn Flash off but it lets you run individual Flash windows if you want.