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Just another reason in my list to justify completely leaving MS office.

Apple's Steve Jobs stated that Numbers would not be able to import or export all files to Excel, meaning that Numbers is not likely to compete directly with Excel.

Additionally, if Numbers cannot handle algebraic equations, logarithms, exponents, and simple statistics it is unlikely that iWork will make a significant dent in MS Office sales.

Insert joke about flying chairs in space provided: ____________ _________________

While I was waiting for an Apple Store employee to help me purchase my new iMac, I started watching the Numbers demos on one of the computers. By the time I was helped, I was convinced and bought my copy...

So far, I'm beyond satisfied.

I wish I had a solution for when people email me Word documents and Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations. Am I not locked in to M$?

Or use the free and open NeoOffice - it works just as well, opens more file formats than Office, etc..

Apple is kicking some major sand in Ballmer's face. How gritty is is!

Uhh, do you think it was really coincidental that Office 2008 "slipped" into early next year just a week prior to iWork shipping? I certainly don't! Microsoft found out this was shipping and conveniently decided that there were "too many problems" with the development process as a way to show Apple who they were dealing with (after all isn't Office the MOST important software for the Mac?). Of course, this is going to bite them on the butt when Mac users stop caring if Office ever ships....

I just installed iWorks this afternoon.

My quick tests looks promising. I may say goodbye to Microsoft forever. MBU looks like a bunch of jokers after you see how slick the new pages and numbers are (keynote was already completely polished before '08).

Office? Who actually "needs" Office?

Hell, I've used AppleWorks and MacLink Plus for years and never felt the need. When I send files I usually send PDFs, since they can't be monkeyed with on the other side. Rarely do I send an editable file. When I do, it's an RTF, not a Word file.

As it (sort of) says in the article, it's all about file formats and seamless translation, not about the tool or the OS you use. I can't wait to try out the iWork '08 demo.

Yeah, NeoOffice works quite well, too.

Weirdly, the primary reason I stick with MS Office 2004 is Entourage. Pages is more fun and flexible than Word; Keynote is infinitely more elegant than PowerPoint; and Numbers looks like it will handle 90%+ of my spreadsheet needs. But iCal, Mail and Address Book are three disjointed apps that do not come close to adding up to Entourage.

Fortunately, you can sync Entourage with iCal and Address Book -- a necessity if you are an iPhone user like me. But I really look forward to day -- in October?? -- when we get some apps with more professional functionality, to say nothing of iPhone support for stuff like Notes and Tasks.

By the way, there is also NeoOffice -- which never seems to get the credit or attention it deserves. And it, too, can read and write the XML files.

Under no circumstances ... I mean fscking none ...will I upgrade to the next Microshit Office. Its over. Numbers and support for so called open xml spells the complete end to MS office for me. And I have A LOT OF CORPROATE CLIENTS.

Unfortunately for most of my clients, iWork neither displays, modifies, or exports Word documents properly.

I hate to say it, but I need pivot tables for my work. Numbers needs to have this in its pipeline or I cannot justify moving to it no matter how clean it is.

@ Mr. Dave

iWork can open and edit all Word and PowerPoint files and most Excel documents. Plus it's really easy to work with and you can make some fantastic looking stuff with it.

You should download Apple's 30 day trial and give it a spin.

"after all isn't Office the MOST important software for the Mac?"

I think it might be OS X. Just a guess.

I love iWork 08. It is really a very nice product. But I still need two things:

1. pivot tables in Numbers;
2. An Entourage/Outlook alternative. Entourage is not the worst software ever made, and it does provide just enough functionality to interoperate in a Windows environment. Mail/iCal/Groupcal are not yet good enough because they rely on opening up IMAP functionality on the Exchange server, and there are some legitimate reasons for sysadmins not to do so [Groupcal is not a bad little product, but again, the combined package is not robust enough]..

I've been an iWork user since it's first version, and now I'm absolute certain that I won't be purchasing MS Office anymore. I don-t use Excel much, more than to check some files that clients send me for design purposes (lists, essays, articles and so on). If you haven't tried iWork yet, you have to!

Microsoft has lost me. I bought the iWork '08 Family Pack two days ago to replace Office 2004. I won't be buying any future versions of Office either.

I love apple and the products....

but HOw about a headline that reads "Apple Embarasses itself with iMovie '08" ?

Apple really fumbled that one.

"Additionally, if Numbers cannot handle algebraic equations, logarithms, exponents, and simple statistics it is unlikely that iWork will make a significant dent in MS Office sales."

Yeah because most EVERYONE uses those features.

Numbers is just what I was waiting for. Buh-bye MS Office! iWork '08 will be on my doorstep on Monday; meanwhile, I'm using the trial version and loving it.

Now, we just need Intuit to spiff up their crappy Quicken for Mac product.

iWorks

IT WORKS... I dumped Office totally now!
Numbers does all the numbering in a slick refined, logical manner that ONLY Apple seems to understand. Numbers excels over Excel as do all the iWork programs. Microsoft has been LAGGING behind in Apple upgrades in Microsoft Office, even though it claims Office for Mac has functionality that Windows version doesn't... well GUESS what it caused incompatibilities!!!!
Very bothersome.

Better yet, my taxes, and invoices are easily imported and calculate perfectly in this new application.

I am so glad I bought it. DOWN with all Microsoft apps for me.

A++ Apple

Keep up the GREAT and very much appreciated work.

Tomorrow I am buying iLife'08. Just as a treat.
Since I still running '06... even the slightest improvement LEAPS over Microsofts updates.

j

paddywack, I agree with you. The company I work at uses excel extensively and the forumlas/sheets they've created only work on Excel. I've tried NeoOffice and Numbers to no avail.

The really fscked up thing - and proof MS has no clue - is that this one sheet we use was built on/for Excel 2003. Well, i'm the guinea pig for Office 2007 and it is just a complete clusterfsck now. The sheet won't open. All kinds of problems. The developer seemed so down that it would probably have to be rebuilt eventually for Office 2007. He used to work for MS, you'd think he'd know they would eventually fsck everything up.

But, I won't be buying iWork 08 anytime soon since I can get by at home with NeoOffice.

So with iWork '08 out now, whats the point of waiting for Office 2008 for Mac when it gets realeased next year?

As much as we like to make fun of Microsoft, I seriously doubt that the reason for the delay on Office 2008 for Mac is due to the ability to read the Office 2007 file format. I'm sure the delay was caused by the need to transition the code base from PPC native to Universal, incorporate new features, and test. Office is the last of the big applications using Carbon, I believe.

However, it is a bit embarrassing that Apple's iWork suite was released first. iWork has most of the bases covered now. I'd say, if it works for you after trying the 30-day trial, make the switch.

Numbers opened ALL my Excel docs - Pages & Keynote do the rest of Office docs - SO - I've waited years for this, dragged Office to the trash and emptied. The MacPro is now so clean - and I'm sure a tiny bit quicker !!!!

@Spock:
For 90+% of Office users, there's NO point waiting for O/2008. Remember, those same 90% use Excel primarily for ... LISTS. The number of people I work with who even know that vlookup or hlookup exist, not to mention what they're for: ZERO.

Magic word: ten, as in less than TEN percent of Office users use even half the functions that aren't included in iWork 08.

It has been my pleasure to receive word docs, in various versions of word to type set, 64 to 160 pages. i used to try and do the edit and corrections to the text in word itself.... talk about tribulations. I import the doc into InDesign now, down two shots worth of canadian to calm my nerves, and preform what amounts to an exorcism to rid the doc's style sheets, dink with the tables to get the page rolls right, etc... i get shivers just thinking about it... but the Canadian, good soft whiskey cetainly does the mind good... a requirement to work with modern word... 5.1 was fine though

The article states that iWork can *open* those Open XML files, but can't save in that format. WTH! So if someone sends me such a file, I can't mod it and send it back in that format. If that's so, it's not there yet.

That 'MacDailyNews Take' was hilarious!

…we're not so sure Microsoft is even capable of being embarrassed—just look the Zune…

Here's the ZuneTangDailyNews Take: The reason Microsoft doesn't appear embarrassed by its Zune is because Microsoft has nothing to be embarrassed about! The Zune is a marvel and once you hold one in your hand it's hard to put down. Magnificent features such as the awesome user interface to the FM radio to squirting your friends latest chart topper put the IPOD to shame. It's Apple who should be embarrassed. The iTunes Store doens't even have points! Losers.

Your potential. Our passion.™

@SirROM:
I believe you may have hit the nail squarely on the head. People, don't be surprised if Office 2008 never ships at all. The shot across the bow had been fired, and it's gonna be interesting!

I'll be buying iWork '08 soon, but I would be more happy if Apple supported a real open format, Open Document Format, not the fake open format by Microsoft.

@Poppycock

I kind of agree with you, I wish Apple would combine iCal, Mail and Address Book into one app and industrialize it a bit. It's sad when MS has a more elegant treatment of ANYTHING than Apple. As nice as iWork is, I'll still buy the next version of Office just to get an updated Entourage.

MS Office was delete the moment I saw Stevie's presentation of iWorks.

I bought iLife 08 and iWork 08 today and all I can say is "bye bye Microsoft".

Numbers is fantastic!

I hate spreadsheets with a vengence and have never really learnt how to use Xcell properly, but with numbers I was up and doing stuff in spreadsheets that I never knew could be done.

Its so simple to use and im amazed Microsoft never designed Xcell like this years ago!

On another note - the new version of keynote is incredible too!

Everyone is missing the real reason why M$ is shipping Office 2008 late.

It's not about programing, it's not about file compatibilities.

The idiots at M$ figured users waited to buy the new Intel Macs because there wasn't a universal Photo Shop program available and the higher ups at M$ figured they could delay the public from purchasing new Macs until next year - by delaying the release of MS Office 2008.

What knuckle heads, what arrogance at M$ - they see the adoption rate of Vista is slow and they hope to get their service pack out by Fall'07 and hope this will give a reason for the public to stay with M$. They are playing with fire, all they'll end up doing is causing the adoption rate of MS Office 2008 to a fraction of what is could have been.

The delay was a huge miscalculation on the part of Gates and Balmer.

My 2 cents!

I have bought and installed iWork 08. The first thing I tried was to import an Excel spreadsheet that I made for tracking my stocks. Just two columns, date and amount, and a chart. The Numbers version was excruciatingly slow, even just to move the chart around the canvas. I figured something was wrong with the import, so rebuilt the spreadsheet in native Numbers. Still just as slow. Also had a bug in specifying the minimum value in one of the axes. I normally use a PowerMac G5, so tried it all on a recent model MacBook Pro. Same result.

I am a total Apple bigot, but obviously, Numbers has a long way to go before it is as useful as Excel. I won't be deleting my MS Office anytime soon.

re: I have bought and installed iWork 08. The first thing I tried was to import an Excel spreadsheet that I made for tracking my stocks. Just two columns, date and amount, and a chart. The Numbers version was excruciatingly slow, even just to move the chart around the canvas. I figured something was wrong with the import, so rebuilt the spreadsheet in native Numbers. Still just as slow. Also had a bug in specifying the minimum value in one of the axes. I normally use a PowerMac G5, so tried it all on a recent model MacBook Pro. Same result.

I am a total Apple bigot, but obviously, Numbers has a long way to go before it is as useful as Excel. I won't be deleting my MS Office anytime soon.

____

If numbers is slow then it must be your machine!

I use a basic mac mini and it whizzes - no slow performance here - and thats with many apps open too!

I've been learning my Numbers for the past couple of days, and wouldn't you know it, the one thing I wanted to do with it caused it to crash. Other than that one item everything else I've tried with it runs like a breeze. I've heard people say that it can choke on really big "tables" but so far not for me. I think Numbers will follow the history of Keynote - a little rusty at first then it gets polished to a high luster after a couple of updates.

Oh, and a customer of mine sent me several Excel files, and I imported them into Numbers, then exported back to Excel and sent them back. Other than the table of contents that Numbers adds to an Excel export, and password protection being removed, he couldn't tell the difference.

I stick with Office for Entourage too!

It is a much better email client than Apple Mail, especially if you need to manage multiple accounts and connect to an Exchange server.

If Apple mail offered a similar feature list and the same type of display options, I would never need to use Office, even though I always get it for free from my company.

@ Zune Tang

BEFORE you throw up your usual bullshit, go out and buy a mac and use the software before you post anything here.

I love the way you try to rip to shreds Apples iWork and other products and yet, surprise surprise you have never even used it.

A word of advice - you want credibility?... then ACTUALLY try using a mac and the software.

If not - THEN JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.

QuadCore:

"Everyone" I work with uses algebraic equations, logarithms, exponents, and simple statistics. This includes undergraduate and graduate students, academicians, and administrative staff. In otherwords, educated people in university systems.

What demographic group do you belong?
What groups do you suppose that Numbers is intended to be used?
What features of spreadsheets do you think are (i) important and (ii) unimportant?

re: I stick with Office for Entourage too!

It is a much better email client than Apple Mail, especially if you need to manage multiple accounts and connect to an Exchange server.

If Apple mail offered a similar feature list and the same type of display options, I would never need to use Office, even though I always get it for free from my company.

----

My company only uses mac mail and we have no problems what-so-ever with exchange servers.

I avoid office like it's the Oxygen channel.

ZuneTang never fails to make us laugh.

I hope the iWork will be able in Finland during next week. It's family pack time...

Well, I have just ordered iWork 08. I am transitioning back to the Mac. I've resurrected my PowerBook G4 that is still handling tasks remarkably well and plan on purchasing a new iMac in a couple days.

As of fall (September), I will begin allowing my students to submit assignments via the University's "Blackboard" in either Word/Excel or Pages/Numbers format. Unless we begin to seriously look at alternatives to MS products and actually use them in the business settings, the monopoly will continue.

That said, Apple has to be prepared to support well these new users who will make the transition. For me, I don't want to run Windows on my Mac. I want good Mac programs without having to buy and run Windows. iWork 08 is a great start. Now we just need a good finance program like Quicken for Windows. The Mac version is Intuit's embarassment.

last time I looked, open office was free and actually embraces the 'true' open XML standard, not Microsh*t's attempt thereof. I use OO on my mac (Writer- think Word, Impress- think Powerpoint and Calc- think Excel) and find it (them) good enough for the price! It even comes with a database Base that is pretty damn good and it undergoes regular updates. So why even pay for iWork...

Develop a sense of humor. Zune Tang has one.

I really wish Apple would develop iHumor so the dour douchebags around here would finally get the joke.

I say port iWork to Windoze!

A glass of ice water to those in hell.