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Moritz is a shill for Cramer. He's an unreliable source, and what exactly is new in this story?

Considering Verizon's antique and archaic network can't even support the most basic of functions (Can't support voice and data at the same time, how 1980's!), I say "Bite me, Verizon. T-Mobile, here I come!".

First off, that's a great first comment.
I had T-Mobile in AZ for for 6 years before I left the States. Excellent customer service, but lousy tech support. Poor quality reception, and even poorer data support. I had a blackberry, and it was often so unusable, that after about 6 months of paying for it and not being able to use it, I dropped their data service.

But as a testament to their great customer support, I stayed with T-MB still, and yes, used my unlocked iPhone (1st gen) with them (sorry). It was a decent service, but nothing to write home about. Although it won't be 3G, I believe having iPhone on the T-Mobile will still be a better option than going with Verizon. CDMA is on its way out, why put up with the crass Verizon pin-heads.

Couple of years from now, July 2011, there ought to be an unlocked iPhone 4g available for all the networks. No reason for a contract, Verizon customers will have the option to lap up the iPhone and use them on their service, without having Apple entering any kind of exclusive deals with Verizon or ATT. Networks can offer subsidies, but only on Apple's terms by then, and maybe there will be another sister device that will offer content/apps lock-in incentives too enticing for anybody to challenge the Apple dominance.

MDN MW: late

I guess he is try to inject a little more realism to pump the stock, the old Verizon deal just doesn't cut it anymore because of those pesky network incompatibilities.

I can see Apple dropping its huge subsidy from ATT in favor of picking up all 10 of T-Mobiles customers. Maybe SJ just has the hots for CZJ.

Why would Apple enter into another exclusive agreements in the USA? If they open up the iPhone to Tmobile, no new chipset is required and they have an offer for the entire (or nearly) USA GSM market. Either way, the US market is peanuts compared to the ROW. Well, I will caveat that by saying, I have no idea of the potential of the application market in the US vs. the ROW. But, if they did design a CDMA phone for the US market, it would be a shame if it did not also include the ability to roam internationally on GSM networks worldwide.

@krquet :
T-Mobile has a 3G network. I currently have an Android phone with them. Their network has really improved over the last couple of years and if/when the iPhone goes there, iPhone users will be able to count on excellent customer service as well. I have a Touch, so I don't know if I will give up my 'Droid if/when iPhone gets to T-Mobile. I always thought iPhone would do better on T-Mobile because Apple users(I am one of them) always expect great customer service. AT&T;sucks, but I realize T-Mobile's network was not ready at the time.

Although Moritz doesn't offer any evidence for this course of action, T-Mobile would make a nice addition to AT&T;in the USA. T-Mobile isn't big enough to threaten AT&T;but would still provide Apple with a nice new pool of potential customers in new markets.

And of course, Apple can still use the same CDMA tech they've been using all along.

Nov 30, 09 - 02:59 pm Comment from: Gregg Thurman

Whether you like them or not, ATT is going to be the dominant carrier in the US. Verizon is going to bleed a lot of subscribers during their abandonment of CDMA (present to 2015) in favor of LTE (GSM compatible).

The costs of that transition is going to make it difficult for Verizon to grow by acquisition (Sprint?), especially if another (T-Mobile?) carrier is offering the iPhone.

Verizon should be considered a short strategy for the next several years.

correction to Synthmeister: GSM, not CDMA. There is no legitimate reason for the iPhone to go CDMA unless Verizon is willing to pay for it (which would put the phone at a cost disadvantage to the iPhone (GSM) that we currently know and love.

Fact is, all service providers would have a hard time supporting all the bandwidth that iPhone users could use. AT&T;is actually doing a better job than I expected. I would anticipate data plans in the future to be much more tiered (i.e., limited), or perhaps even a $/byte rate plan without limit.

Apple + T-Mobile would be a superb match as long as T-Mobile keeps improving its network as it has. They sure have come a long way since the olf Voicestream days.

Nov 30, 09 - 03:15 pm Comment from: Gregg Thurman

"Fact is, all service providers would have a hard time supporting all the bandwidth that iPhone users could use."

Exactly spot on. All those praising Verizon's network would be howling like stuck pigs if suddenly Verizon had 10X the demand placed on its data network. CDMA can't do simultaneous, PERIOD, and Verizon bandwidth is significantly lower than ATT's.

Google "Scott Moritz FUD" and you'll find articles like these:

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/21192/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2131017/dissipating_the_fud_cloud_around_apple.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13509_3-9739827-20.html

Nov 30, 09 - 03:47 pm Comment from: MediaXYZ

Why on earth would Apple make a CDMA iPhone? Are they also going to start putting floppy drives back in their computers, or maybe sell VHS tapes through iTunes? Is there any other daft, backward technology steps they should take?

It would mean they would have one hardware specification for Verizon customers, and another for the other 6 billion people in the world.

Nov 30, 09 - 03:48 pm Comment from: Cubert

FUDmaster Flash,

(Not so) strangely, Googling "Scott Moritz is an @$$hat" revealed even more hits!

Nov 30, 09 - 03:52 pm Comment from: BlackWolf

I got one word to describe this story, well other then all these words leading up to that one word, which is;

Duh!

One issue is that T-Mobile uses a different frequency for it's 3G. I believe AT&T uses 850MHz and 1900MHz while T-Mobile uses 1700MHz and 2100MHz. I don't think it's a huge deal, though, as I'm sure some sort of configuration file can be created.

Nov 30, 09 - 04:06 pm Comment from: Lilochris

Finally, I really want to get the iPhone already. My 3 year old Motorola Razr is beginning to fall Apart and there are most phones in T-Mobiles Lineup don't appeal to me. Heck, They still have phones in their lineup that have been there since 2005-2006.

And I really like T-Mobile's service. I lived in Farmington CT, and traveled A lot throughout most of New England, including NY & New Jersey without much trouble. Well, Better service than the Nextel I had in 2005 which was double the price for the same minutes..

I'm in FL now and my satisfaction with T-Mobile Continues. I just dislike most of their phone offerings. IIf they offer iPhone with plans much lower than ATT, I will switch immediately.

"Fact is, all service providers would have a hard time supporting all the bandwidth that iPhone users could use."

This would be a valid argument IF the iPhone had a problem overusing bandwidth. The problem with the argument is that no such problem exists. In fact, the massive data usage from iPhone is well within AT&T;'s capacity. The most reported problems that people are having with the iPhone, dropped calls, not being able to call even with full bars of service, calls that go directly to voice mail without the phone ringing and voicemail notifications not getting received for hours after the voicemail was left are all problems with the phone side of the system, not the data side. And I'm not completely sure that the problem lies with AT&T;either. On a number of occasions, I've been in the same office in midtown Manhattan with my business partner, and he is able to make and receive calls on his AT&T;Blackberry, when calls to and from my iPhone fail even though I have full bars of service. I love my iPhone and I use it for hours every day for web and app use of the data services, but for ordinary phone calls I now use a prepaid Virgin cell (that uses the Sprint network) that works perfectly all the time. The iPhone is without question the best handheld computers ever made, but it is perhaps the worst telephone ever.

Nov 30, 09 - 04:49 pm Comment from: pdxflint

Good... then I don't have to switch networks. I'd never go Verizon regardless - everyone I talk to on a Verizon phone sounds like they're in a barrel, even when I'm on a landline. They have questionable billing practices and I hate that guy in the commercials who follows folks around with his huge crowd... enough already.

I've used Verizon's data plan with a cellular modem on a laptop, and while it was convenient, it was pretty glitchy, and slow, slow, slow... The software on a Mac kept hiccupping - put a huge strain on the system. I'd hate to have to depend on it. Verizon is a lot of hot air about their "network." I still can't get their service in half my county on the Oregon coast, so in that regard they are no different than any other cell provider. Simple. AT@T is actually much better here based on all the folks I know who got rid of Verizon for AT@T just because of the lousy coverage. Don't you just love commercials that are misleading propaganda? Let's talk about facts, not myths.

Anything but Verizon, the company is from hell

The longer it takes for Verizon to reach a deal with Apple the less likely there will be a CDMA based iPhone. 4G is set to roll out starting in late 2010 and by 2012 will likely be pretty standard. If anything I think Apple is negotiating with Qualcomm for a 3G/4G chip to bridge next year and 2011. If Apple is releasing iPhones on a 1 year cycle every June and is still in negotiations with Qualcomm it would seem unlikely we would see iPhones in June with anything from them.

Nov 30, 09 - 06:18 pm Comment from: grognard

As Lilochris says, I too have been satisfied T-Mobile Customer, and and the Iphone would be great. Might be some beneficial competition between AT&T;and T-mobile for customers: A "loyalty discount" by AT&T;, and a "Switch to us" discount for folks wanting to go to T-Mobile. Could be interesting. I agree, that Apple will not make a CDMA phone. Sorry Verizion Customers. Ain't gonna happen.

Nov 30, 09 - 07:23 pm Comment from: chaz

As I've said before, Verizon will be the LAST carrier in the USA to sign up for the iPhone, if it ever does. Sprint / T-Mobile are much more likely candidates. Verizon helmet heads running that company are sooooo stupid. They crap on their employees,their vendors and customers.

Good luck Verizon, I hope your days are numbered. Apple can't bury you soon enough.

Hard to believe though, I listen to Verizon customers say, just WAIT, there will be an iPhone knock off for them that will be just as good.

They are PC lemmings that are content to use a$$ backward technology while they patiently wait for their vendor of choice (Microsoft or Verizon) to copy and deliver a product.

Tumbling Timex Batman, says Robin, it's been almost three years and these people who chose Verizon (and God only knows they could not have possibly ever chosen the wrong carrier) are still patiently waiting for an iPhone knockoff.

Nov 30, 09 - 08:43 pm Comment from: silverhawk

Moritz is normally full of bs, I hope this is his one time being right. I had ATnT for four years and the ability to hold a call was horrible. My family of four has been with T-Mobile for the last two years and we are extremely happy with them. Never had to call a service rep, it just works!

Please Steve, make it happen and I'll be in line for a iPhone.

Nov 30, 09 - 11:37 pm Comment from: ken1w

I've made the comment several times that if Apple wants a second U.S. carrier, they should go with T-Mobile. They have the same type of network as ATT, so there is no need for a special iPhone. And because they are not as large as ATT, it will be an advantage for Apple; Apple can probably continue to get the same subsidy agreement from ATT because T-Mobile will not be as big a threat compared to Verizon, and T-Mobile will no doubt be willing to match or exceed the terms of any agreement that ATT has with Apple.

I don't think Apple and Verizon will be partners in the near future.

Verizon's data network is like a road to nowhere. It's great because there's no traffic, but there's no traffic for a good reason.

Dec 01, 09 - 11:52 pm Comment from: Wireless Test Man

Road to smartphone dominance w/ T-Mobile? LMAO!

Good luck... Deutsch Telecom has T-Mobile USA up for sale... The second tier carriers (T-Mobile & Sprint) are losing subscribers & becoming more & more irrelevant.

The major battle, and where the subscribers are, is between Verizon and AT&T;.

Putting it on T-Mobile gets Apple nothing. T-Mobile also has non-standard spectrum for 3G (I think the uplink is 1700 MHz & the downlink is 2100 MHz - yeech!)

Verizon will be one of the first carriers in the world to launch a 4G LTE network.. meanwhile, according to AT&T;'s own public statements, they won't have 3G fully built out until 2012... at that point, why bother?

Dec 01, 09 - 11:58 pm Comment from: Wireless Test Man

@Gregg Thurman

"Exactly spot on. All those praising Verizon's network would be howling like stuck pigs if suddenly Verizon had 10X the demand placed on its data network. CDMA can't do simultaneous, PERIOD, and Verizon bandwidth is significantly lower than ATT's."

Are you showing the world your complete & total wireless ignorance again?

AT&T;'s 3G Network has slow data connections EXACTLY b/c it carries circuit-swithced voice & data on the same RF carrier. During busy hours, data users are either bumped down to pokey old EDGE, or suffer terribly slow data speeds... this has shown up in the test results from PC World magazine..

Plus, w/ UMTS, you have to suffer w/ the inefficiencies in the GPRS backbone network too... Talk about an antique!

CDMA EV/DO uses Mobile IP straight from the handset right into the PDSN in the network... it is built totally on IP standards... NOT some byzantine antique like the GPRS core network that Ericsson & Nokia pushed on the carriers as a way to try to keep Cisco out of their networking business.

Dec 02, 09 - 12:00 am Comment from: Wireless Test Man

Gregg Thurman - STFU!

LTE is NOT compatible w/ GSM.. LTE (and UMTS for that matter) ARE CDMA!

They are just an overlay over old TDMA-based GSM networks, to help migrate them to CDMA...

Are you an imbecile?

If you'd remember the first iPhone (which did not have 3G because the networks were not mature enough) you wouldn't expect an LTE iPhone in 2010 or 2011, no matter what Verizon is promising. A CDMA iPhone however has become more likely with the release of a custom Wifi-less iPhone for China Unicom this year. If Verizon or even Sprint pre-order 10 million CDMA iPhones from Apple, they would make it happen.