MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jul 13, 09 - 09:12 am Comment from: ID Argyll

There is a big difference between wrecking a business and reshaping one.

Jul 13, 09 - 09:20 am Comment from: silverhawk

@ID Argyll
Agree. Telcos need reshaping. After all, they are merely a pipe.

Jul 13, 09 - 09:22 am Comment from: DD from Belgium

...the author does have a point when he states that the iPhone customer's first affinity is to the device, not the network/provider: I would basically have switched to any network, anyone carrying the iPhone. Don't care who it is basically (they all have their advantages and strangeties), the one(s) that is/are carrying the iPhone: I care about the device and what magic that brings, not the network.

He also has a point in that the iPhone is wrecking (like ID Argyll I also prefer 'reshaping') the mobile industry: the iPhone and the iPhone alone brought almost all other handset makers to scramble and produce a 'me-too-touch' version - but the public is making it's choice rather clear.

Undoubtedly a (serious) part of iPhoners will be investigating these cool Apple computers also, and also here the outcome is rather predictable.

Is there a plural version of bloodbath? Because that's what happening, and many are still wanting to be too blind to see...

Fortune reported today that M$ was going to put Office 2010 online for free, but with caveats that require the purchased version to force people to upgrade. Google will just counter and offer more for free and the consumer wins. BIG gamble by M$ to try to compete late again. They are getting cannabalized from every direction. What more features can Office 10 justify for an upgrade price?
Lack of true innovation has reached it's crest and is downwardly picking up speed. History books will fight over whether to put Apple or Google first as taking down the giant. Schmidt didn't help things by flashing his Blackberry device. Maybe it was secretly running Android.

Maybe AT&T;should take blame for there own mistakes and not blame Apple for them. Apple gave them an exclusive deal with the iPhone which went straight to the top as the best smartphone. AT&T;however gave Apple a less than ready 3G network in return.
AT&T;doesn't take responsibility for there problems it has but rather just points the finger at Apple. AT&T;isn't ready for the latest updates either, MMS, and tethering.
So while it is easy to say Apple wrecked the business, maybe the facts should point out a different story. Apple is number one in customer service, AT&T;I doubt can even be scaled there so bad at customer service. Maybe that's why customers find AT&T;irrelevant. Apple is also making a superior product to anything out there. It's just a fact, consumers love the ease of use, a straight forward approach the way Apple does with there computers. Exclusive deals with one carrier having a phone isn't anything new, why the government is wasting there time and tax payers money is beyond me. Maybe they should work on the economy instead!

Just thought about this amusing "wrecking" scenario:
Let's assume that the iPhone is a contemporary trojan horse infiltrating increasingly more at&t;wireless accounts. Then, lets say it does the same thing on Verizon/alltel. One day, Apple decides to create their own wireless entity to complement the Mobileme cloud. They charge $60/mo for unlimited voice and data. Imagine the defection?

Jul 13, 09 - 10:12 am Comment from: John

Nice take, MDN. Sir Francis should be quoted more often.

As for the article, I too prefer the word, reshape, but you have to admit that Apple is reshaping the industry with a wrecking ball

@ Silverhawk,

"@ID Argyll
Agree. Telcos need reshaping. After all, they are merely a pipe."

No , they are merely a "series of tubes"
-Ted Stevens

Mmm Bacon...

Or Apple could just buy AT&T;and do for phone service what they did for phones. NOW you're talking wrecking, but then at that point the only way for others to compete is to scream monopoly and get governments to break up Apple's success, rather than listen to what Ive and Cook and Jobs say is behind their success.

Companies who think Sun Tsu's "Art Of War" is a handbook for company execs will never be able to compete with a company whose execs think making "cool stuff that we ourselves like" is the way to go.

One company is thinking "How do we tear down our opponents and make maximum profits?" Apple is thinking "How do we make this thing do this, and this and this? Can we make it thinner? That looks kind of clunky; I'd like it to look like this... This seems kind of slow; can we speed it up? Now THIS is cool! Let's add this to our other stuff!" And so on, and so on. The other companies are thinking "how can we compete with Apple?" while skimming through "The Art of War" trying to find the relevant chapter.

Clue to "other" companies; you can't compete with Apple; if that's what you're thinking about, you already lost. You should be thinking about the products and services you produce and how to make them the best as if you're the one buying/using them.

Honestly, why do these execs make so much? Any teenager on the street could do a better job of product development.

Jul 13, 09 - 10:20 am Comment from: macaholic

@iNeuron:
imagine the defecation at AT&T;!

Jul 13, 09 - 10:20 am Comment from: qka

I look forward to the not-too-distant future, when the US gets beyond the variety of incompatible wireless formats, and joins the rest (OK, most) of the world in having one interoperable standard fro all devices and carriers. Take your iPhone or whatever to whichever carrier offers what you believe to be the best coverage/price/service/whatever to suit your circumstances.

There is still the issue of Visual Voicemail and all the other network dependent features of the iPhone. Hopefully, all the carriers will fall all over themselves to get Apple's assistance for offering those services to get the iPhone customers on their network.

When that happens, Apple will have truly wrecked/reshaped the wireless market.

Jul 13, 09 - 10:21 am Comment from: John

BTW, pondering how much the situation in wireless reminds me of the mid '90s for the internet: remember how AOL and a couple others made a play to control content, only to fall down as the public realized that any pipe was as good as another? Where is AOL today? Do people today worry overly about where their home or work internet service comes from (except when it goes out and you get crappy service fixing it)?

I have a feeling in maybe 5 years, we won't have religious debates about ATT vs. Verizon vs. T-Mobile anymore: no one will care what the pipe is, just what phone (or platform) you're using.

What;s so radical about this!. You buy your lexus out of affinity for the Lexus brand, not the dealership where you purchased it, your Sony TV because of Sony, not Bestbuy, your Cheerios because of Cheerios, not Acme Market, your iPhone because of Apple, not ATT, or Sprint, or Verizon. It's always been this way.... except for when it came to wireless phone service. So in essence, Apple has merely righted the market.

Wreck all you want Apple. First Apple took it to the old-school music distributors that managed to screw everybody for a 100 years, now it's time take down the old-school cell carriers who have been screwing everybody for 20 years.

Jul 13, 09 - 10:30 am Comment from: trex67

Side note to John (not John registered):

Please learn the difference between the words "there," "their," and "they're." Using them properly would make your comments more intelligible.

I hate being a grammar Nazi, but this is elementary school stuff.

Jul 13, 09 - 10:33 am Comment from: ndelc

This guy is a moron. There's nothing new here. Years ago I really wanted a Sony-Ericsson phone (I don't even remember the model anymore) and it was only available on AT&T;. A few years later my contract was up and I wanted to move to Verizon but they wouldn't let me. I had to get a crappy Motorola phone instead.

And the business about customers feeling an affinity to the device and not the provider? Why would I feel an affinity to the provider? The device is what you use, the provider should be unseen in the background. A good provider is one you never think about.

Frankly, I'd love it if we could use any phone with any provider but Apple has nothing to do with this issue.

apple has succesfully turned the carriers into dump pipes. the yget no share of the media or apps revenue, they are only left offering mere bandwidth.

Jul 13, 09 - 10:42 am Comment from: Lolcat

Orifices.

Jul 13, 09 - 11:11 am Comment from: Predrag

After the introduction of the number portability law, carriers have lost one major weapon they had in holding onto customers. Still, their strategy continues to be one of differentiating themselves by forcing the brand name down their users' throats through the total control over everything. Verizon is the reigning, undisputed world champion in this. Every minute detail of their service, as well as the devices that run on it, is controlled by the carrier. What the menu on the phone should look like, how the features should be laid out, which features can be allowed, which ones are not, and let's not forget about Verizon logo everywhere, to the point of not even knowing anymore what is the actual make and model of that phone. Other carriers aren't far behind, and as we all know, iPhone is the ONLY one where there's no AT&T logo in sight, and no AT&T surcharge or ringtone downloading, picture or music copying, app downloading, music downloading, or anything else. To even think that Verizon would actually allow Apple to use its EVDO pipes to download TV shows or movies via iTunes without charging extra for the privilege is quite naïve.

Yes, Apple is flipping the mobile industry on its head. The process isn't complete yet, but will be quite soon. It is about time mobile telephony becomes like landline telephony: you choose your provider and forget about it.

Jul 13, 09 - 11:13 am Comment from: twilightmoon

"Apple is number one in customer service, AT&T;I doubt can even be scaled there so bad at customer service."

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. You want to criticize ATT for not having their network ready, you'd not be alone. But once you start poking at ATT's customer service it is VERY CLEAR you are a PAID ASTROTURFER. ATT has immeasurably better service than Sprint or the horrendously bad service of Verizon, and those are the only 2 other carriers with enough national coverage to be worth considering for an exclusive US carrier contract.

In short you are paid by: 1 Microsoft, 2 RIM, 3 Palm, 4 Nokia, 5 Sprint, 6 Verizon. Not sure which, and possibly more than 1. But there's no way your comment can be real, unless you are one of the dumbest people on the planet who wouldn't know a fact if it hit you upside your head.

Go lie somewhere else. Begone.

ATT took the shortsighted approach to fortune by relying in the coolness factor of Apple and taking advantage of it. It is apparent now that ATT is just a "pipe" and not much more. They have very little to distinguish themselves from the telco packs besides the iPhone. This is very dangerous in the long term. The day Apple goes, they go.
Why not offer free apps to ATT customers such as Navigator to retain their customers and make them be perceived as cool and different instead of just charging customer for data transfer? So not cool!

Jul 13, 09 - 11:50 am Comment from: Predrag

Twilightmoon:

That was quite harsh. My guess is that John's only point of reference was a bunch of negative comments on these forums (those who'd jump ship if Verizon would offer the iPhone). You read a lot of those, you form your own opinion based on (often skewed) opinions of others. My guess is that he just doesn't really have a clue. I doubt anyone would pay any money to someone who can't even write elementary-school English (Their / there / they're, as mentioned above).

"Things alter for the worse spontaneously, if they be not altered for the better designedly." - Francis Bacon

You walking in high cotton here?

(High Cotton by Alabama, The American Farewell Tour album. See iTunes.)

@ twilightmoon

It looks like John has a point about customer service when picture mail and tethering features are ready on the iphone but ATT isn't ready to let customers use it. Features that are being used on lots of other phones... That's great ATT customer service?

Good thing I don't have ATT...

should be "features aren't ready"

Jul 13, 09 - 12:17 pm Comment from: Ron Robertson

I broke down and decided to get the new 32GB iPhone and got an "early upgrade" even though I've only had an iPhone for 3 months. I got it at the AT&T;store (had to, we're a business account) here in a smallish town in Northern California (smaller than Santa Rosa). I asked the guy who helped me how the iPhone was doing, and he said it's just been crazy, almost 80% of their business is for the iPhone now. It was already a big chunk with the 3G, but he said the 3GS has been selling far better.

Anecdotal, but interesting. We're not in a good economy area of California here, either. If this is any indication of how AT&T;is doing elsewhere, then I think AT&T;has to be some pretty happy campers, as of course does Apple.

Jul 13, 09 - 12:44 pm Comment from: Olmecmystic

@roguedog:

You're absolutely right. Balance has ALMOST been restored in the marketplace. I'm a Panasonic/Nikon/Apple/Bose man myself. I'm NOT a Best Buy/Sam's Club/Costco/Circuit City guy. I don't give a damn WHERE I get my technology. I'm shopping for the best deal, period.

@John and Predrag:

The day is definitely coming when the network provider will be a totally secondary consideration to the device you're buying or the service you're paying for. If it's all the same (i.e. 4G) why should I pay more for yours (AT & T) than yours (Verizon)?

What that will have the net effect of doing is shining the spotlight on the device even more as the differentiator than is the case today. In other words, Apple will shine even more as the innovation/aesthetic/functionality leader.

What did Morpheus say to Neo? "Welcome to the REAL world."

Peace.
Olmecmystic

@ Olmecmystic I hear ya bro; me I'm a Sony/Apple/Nikon kinda guy.... Luv to get my hands on the D700. And For the carriers to call foul now, just goes to show the adolescent, greedy market that pretends to have the customer's interest at heart. If I recall correctly, didn't Apple shop Verizon 1st! it was their intent to offer their customers the best possible experience on arguably the best network. Verizon blew it in the USA and Europe. Yes, Apple is very proud of their products, but when you're the best, you have every right to be proud & rewarded financially. Please let the markets set the markets.

Jul 14, 09 - 07:59 am Comment from: Hugh Jass

This is a passage from the article MDN missed...

” AT&T;, says Moffett, was roundly jeered at every mention at Apple’s last World Wide Developer Conference. And, as someone who attended that event, I can attest that this was indeed the case. Certainly the revelation that AT&T;wasn’t yet supporting iPhone features like MMS and tethering did not go over well with the WWDC audience which was already abuzz with criticisms of the carrier’s slow data connections.

This means, as we saw w/ the nationwide tests of the three 3G networks, that the network DOES matter.... but subscribers will be making their purchase decision in a very different kind of way.... I actually went back to Verizon Wireless b/c I couldn't stand the pathetic AT&T;network anymore... dropped calls, no coverage... I got a cheap & free Samsung phone, and use my iPhone as a VERY expensive iPod Touch....

In the future wireless networks will be graded on quality, speed & price (think how subscribers are making the cable vs. FiOS decision for their homes. FiOS is winning not by offering better looking set top boxes, but by providing faster data speeds & better quality HD pictures & more HD channels all at the same price as cable co)