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There you go another good news to sink AAPL...

crazy world we live in.

Jun 26, 08 - 10:28 am Comment from: Gandalf

The bad news from RIM (down 11%+) has depressed the smartphone market, and AAPL is a player in the smartphone market so it must go down too.

That's logic, as used by people who don't have enough information.

Jun 26, 08 - 10:46 am Comment from: Randian

It ain't just the smartphone market that's suffering today, folks. This is an across-the-board pullback; all ships are sitting lower in the water, no matter their outlook.

@Radian - especially Microsoft's outlook.

Peace.

I don't get it. I thought there would be more orders for ipod touches. Fewer touch orders? :(
And I guess no mactouch this year huh? Macworld 09 maybe? =/

I realize that Apple is no longer just a computer company, but this continuing dreadful silence regarding sales of Mac computers is worrisome. The more Apple exclusively harps about its iPhone, iTouch, and iPods sales, the less convinced I am that Mac sales are following suit. Perhaps you fanbois will finally recognize that the anticipated "halo" effect is actually a "hell, no" reality.

Jun 26, 08 - 11:20 am Comment from: pastrychef

@ha, ha, ha

Did you read the article???

ha, ha duh,
For a dunce you really take the cake (it's a baked good..often with frosting since you seem to need things explained to you).
How often do you need to be reminded? Apple's Macintosh sales are doing incredibly well as this article from the end of April, less than 60 days ago is a testament (Something that serves as tangible proof or evidence). Isn't a 51% jump in sales enough for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/technology/24apple.html

Jun 26, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: AAPLguy

@ pr

Unfortunately, now HA will respond with either his usual market-share BS or a personal attack. He will never point to actual data or evidence, since those are not in his favor.

WTF, why did Apple go down so much today? Oh, oil(USO) is up. This is so stupid. Dam oil companies! Not only do I lose money from the over priced oil, but now I lose money on my stock!

To quote,

"2Q build volumes largely unchanged. "

Zero slope? Slightly negative slope? This ambiguous non-affirming statement suggests a slump in some model and minimal improvement in sales of other models (no models specified in this article, of course).

"3Q builds revised higher for both notebook and desktop"

Wishful thinking versus quantifiable reality.

There are still more questions left unanswered:

1. What percentage of Mac sales were due to NEW customers?
2. What percentage of Mac sales were due to FORMER Mac users?
3. What percentage of Mac sales to FORMER Mac users were to replace Macs that were (i) 3 years old or less, (ii) 4 to 6 years old, (iii) more than 6 years old?
4. Again, Apple fails to provide more rigorous sales statistics in order to hide the ugly truth.

pr, your turn!

Strange that their checks show 15M total iPhone 3Gs in Q3 and Q4 of 2008. I thought a few weeks back, NPD or someone, reported that Apple orders from Q3 had gone from 12M to 10.2M due to constraints, and Q4 was 12M, for a total of 22.2M in 2008. Someone's supply chain informant is incorrect.

KenC:

Accuracy, precision, and objectivity be damned, what's correct is whatever you want to be correct!

Jun 26, 08 - 01:21 pm Comment from: AAPLguy

@ Ha Ha Ha

Here's your ugly truth:
Q1 2008 47% YOY growth in Mac Sales.

Q2 2008 51% YOY growth in Mac Sales.

AAPLfanboi:

You keep failing, fanboi, and failing miserably.

Where are the hard data and rigorous sales statistics over time?
Where are the detailed graphs, explicit charts, and clear tables? Where are the discrete demographics of new and former Mac users?
Answer, nowhere!

None of the links you have posted provide anything more than meticulously ambiguous, carefully massaged, craftily edited, and highly questionable PR rhetoric.

In other words, you haven't clue. Oh, hell, that was a redundant statement.

@ ha ha ha

Read the article again. These stats are from a third party looking into orders placed with Apple's suppliers, they are NOT figures put out by Apple.

Second, they do NOT show a decrease in Mac sales. The 2Q build volumes largely unchanged simply means that Apple didn't add to or cut back the number of desktops in 2Q. The article also states that 3Q is set to grow 10% to 20% over 2Q levels.

Also, the article states that for 3Q, Apple has a 35% increase in notebooks and a 20% increase in desktops over 3Q 2007. That's increased production being ordered due to anticipated increased sales.

Each quarter has different supply and demand issues. Apple sells many more iPods in the Christmas quarter than it does in 2Q. So it orders more. What's important is comparing this year's orders for the quarter to last year's orders for the same quarter, but still taking into account other circumstances such as intentional reduction of stock due to clearing out inventory for an anticipated new model release.

bizlaw, my moronic and comprehension-limited fanboi, nowhere in the previous links has Apple provided the rigorous and detailed statistical analyses I have previously and explicitly detailed.

Your stupidity and lack of understanding of fundamental analysis is only exceeded by your ignorance and bias.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:15 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib,

They're in the same place as HP's detailed sales figures. When you find one, you find the other.

At the moment, HP don't/won't even tell you how many computers they sell even though they sell $20 billion worth every quarter. Of course, maybe they're embarrassed that they only make 8% profit on the whole sorry enterprise and they make the same amount of profit selling printers and ink-jet cartridges.

In the meantime, let's focus on some cold realities…

Apple: $149.33 billion, most recent profitability: 13.9%
Hewlett-Packard: $110.49 billion, most recent profitability: 7.2%
Dell: $46.16 billion, most recent profitability: 4.8%
Lenovo: $6.55 billion, most recent profitability: 2.9%

I think it was Roosevelt who once said "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself". Of course, he wasn't a shareholder in a company that was a Microsoft "partner" and only had to deal with Nazi Germany and the Japanese so he can be forgiven for his optimism.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:23 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib,

In the meantime, whilst you're looking for those detailed HP figures, maybe you could go and search for the report where Microsoft tells everyone how many Vista OEM licences it has sold and how many have actually been ACTIVATED! Maybe they could also tell us how many copies of SP1 for Vista have been downloaded from Microsoft or Windows Update.

Surely, none of that can be a secret. Surely they're not frightened of the truth. Surely if they publish the numbers, it will prove what a success Vista has been in the market.

MCCFR,

Ditto for you too, fanboi.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:26 pm Comment from: KingMel

Apple is down approximately twice that of the market averages.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:43 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib - the human equivalent of an Intel 8088!

Btw, whilst you're accusing Apple of fraud, let's remember that Microsoft and Intel deliberately engaged in a conspiracy to mislead the public over which systems would run Vista?

And let's be clear on the irony: Intel was perfectly willing to be a party to a conspiracy which bilked consumers - many of whom are likely to have been on restricted budgets - into buying systems which were supposedly Vista-capable, but - as we now know - is unwilling to inflict Vista as a generally available OS on its own employees.

Even more interesting, none of Microsoft's and Intel's mutual OEM partners bothered to even check that the systems they were selling were up to the job. Lazy? Complacent? Arrogant? Dishonest?? Which adjective should we apply?

If you want to know why people on this board hold Microsoft in such contempt, this is the kind of stunt which should explain that to you.

It's not just their lack of imagination. It's not just the unbelievable lack of quality in most of their software. And it not just the fact that their operating systems are targeted by over 100,000 viruses and over 100,000 pieces of adware and spyware.

It's the total lack of any ethical compass.

Need another example? when Microsoft was developing its own anti-spyware software, there was a particular web-tracking company whose software was - quite rightly - listed as spyware in the definitions file. Right until the moment that Microsoft started courting that company as a potential acquisition and then the classification changed from quarantine to ignore.

So when Microsoft didn't have an interest in Claria, their software was defined as sufficiently onerous to be an issue to consumers, but any such concerns for the privacy of consumer's web browsing habits completely evaporated in the face of a potentially profitable deal. Classy.

Microsoft will sell you an operating system that wont run properly on a system they've endorsed as capable to do the job.

Then, because their software is full of holes, they allow malware developers to use STEAL computing cycles that customers have paid for on their anaemic machines.

Then they have the gall to sell you an anti-spyware package, which STEALS even more processing cycles from the anaemic machine that some poor sap (maybe that Bill Gates chap who can't even get his website to work) has purchased.

And then they downgrade the threat posed by a particular piece of software, because they're interested in making a buck from the developer.

Please explain why you support a company that is a convicted monopolist and which treats its customers with such contempt.

MCCFR:


In the meantime, whilst you're looking for those detailed HP figures...

I am not the least bit concerned about HP or Dell or Microsoft sales statistics for 2007 and 2008. Obviously, no matter how many times I explicitly express the precise data and comprehensive statistical analysis would like to read, you and your fellow cretinous fanbois just can't seem to grasp the point.

.... maybe you could go and search for the report where Microsoft tells everyone how many Vista OEM licences it has sold and how many have actually been ACTIVATED!>/b>

I couldn’t care less about Microsoft’s business endeavors, you cretinous clod.

Maybe they could also tell us how many copies of SP1 for Vista have been downloaded from Microsoft or Windows Update.</b>

See above.

I use you own logic to prove what a pathetically moronic fanboi you truly are,

Surely, none of (Apple's 2007 and 2008 products sales statistics) can be a secret. Surely (Apple is) not frightened of the truth. Surely if (Apple would only gets off its ass and) publish the numbers, it will prove what a success (Apple product sales) has been in the market.

But Apple hasn't, MCCFR, and no one has yet accurately and precisely indicated where these precise data and comprehensive statistical analysis can be found.

It's a mystery, isn't it? Then again, you seemed more interested in fables and myths than hard facts and reality.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:46 pm Comment from: Ampar

To MCCFR: Here's a classic quote from Afib from a few articles back. It's excellent insight into the mentality of the guy crap flooding MacDailyNews.

"I correct your errors and misunderstandings, provide you instruction and education, and encourage you to better yourself; and you respond with animosity and resentment.

You are an ungrateful and spoiled child."

Jun 26, 08 - 02:47 pm Comment from: FreddyThePig

@Ha

Your mom says to shut off the Dell and come up from the basement and go outside and cut the grass now.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:47 pm Comment from: Ampar

P.S.

"This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days."

- Franklin D. Roosevelt, Inaugural Address, March 4, 1933

Jun 26, 08 - 02:48 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib,

Come on, show us the transparency of your beloved Microsoft and their OEM partners.

Show us how their market is growing.

But remember, you have to use the same rules you demand from us: ALL OF THE DATA HAS TO BE INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED BY EXTERNAL AUDITORS WHO ARE NOT RETAINED BY THE COMPANY AND DETAILED TO THE PRODUCT LINE.

If you can't come up with this information, it simply proves that you're full of shit.

Jun 26, 08 - 02:52 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib,

You may not be interested in Microsoft's business endeavours, bur we are.

And seeing as you're trying to educate us and are a guest on a Macintosh-oriented sire, you should be willing and able to come up with the data.

Come on, 8-bit fuckwit, chop-chop.

Jun 26, 08 - 03:15 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Ampar,

Thanks for the clarification on FDR! As a Brit, my recollections can sometimes be a little shaky.

Also, as you can see I've now decided to let Afib educate me on how Microsoft and their OEM partners set the standard in transparency to shareholders and customers, thus helping me to see the error of my ways and hopefully assist me to myself of the evil that is Apple and Macintosh from my woeful life.

I can't wait: this four-year old Macintosh with 1.5GB of RAM that runs Leopard faster than it ran Tiger is really getting on my nerves and I'd much rather get some cheap, plasticky Dell piece of shit and wait for five minutes every morning when I re-boot (just like Bill Gates).

Jun 26, 08 - 03:30 pm Comment from: Ampar

To MCCFR:
Re: FDR - No problem!


"There are people who don't like capitalism, and people who don't like PCs. But there's no one who likes the PC who doesn't like Microsoft." - Bill Gates

Jun 26, 08 - 03:45 pm Comment from: MCCFR

The line from Bill Gates is the kind of Monty Python logic that Afib would enjoy!

"I need to see Mac sales figures!"

"Here they are"

"No, not those sales figures - I want to see the real ones"

"What do you mean by real?"

"They have to be verified by someone who isn't retained by the company?" (MCCFR take: this assumes that there are auditors who work for free or that another company will pay for said auditors. Curiously, Afib believes that Mac users are disconnected from reality).

"Can you show us an example of another company operating in the sector which has independently verified sales figures?"

"You're a fanboi!"

Afib - like Robert Mugabe, but without the same capacity for reason.

Fanbois, all noise and no substance. It's obvious, none of you cretins has a clue precisely how well Apple 2007 and 2008 sales have performed, otherwise you would have provided the data I have requested.

To rephrase the great socialist, FDR, "We have nothing, period."

Yes, Ampar, part of your education is pointing out your deficiencies, defects, and deficits. Quite a list of shortcoming and inadequacies you have, too.

@Ha ha ha

Your posts don't even make sense. You're trying to hold Apple to a standard and yet you're willing to let every other manufacturer off scott free? The detailed charts you ask for arent' necessary to prove higher sales YOY. Apple has been blowing the industry average away by reporting 50% YOY increases in earnings calls and you say that those numbers aren't relevant unless you can tell how many of those sales are to new users versus existing users? A 50% YOY increase is a 50% YOY increase. It doesn't matter whether they are new or existing customers.

The data you ask for is not necessary to show increased sales so there is no need to provide it. By building a false argument and a request for data that no one can provide (because no one is measuring new versus old customers) you've knowingly set the burden of proof to a level that no one can provide. You've lost this argument several times over and you know it.

Jun 26, 08 - 04:16 pm Comment from: Ampar

To MCCFR: The Argument Clinic is one of my favorites. I also like The Ministry of Silly Walks. Cleese is brilliant.

Jun 26, 08 - 04:25 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib…

Great comeback! You really got me with that one! There we were expecting you to come back with some qualitative data and instead you came back with the classic one of you cretins has a clue precisely how well Apple 2007 and 2008 sales have performed.

Ignoring the woeful grammar - which makes George W. Bush sound like Oscar Wilde - the thing is…

• We do know what the data is
• We quite like the data
• So do all the other Apple investors
• We even told you what the data was.
• You - for reasons passing understanding - choose to disbelieve the data, despite the fact that is is more substantive and detailed than any other company operating in the sector.
• Personally, I'd give you all the collated data for the last six years. But then you'd find another reason to gripe.
• You refuse to play by the same rules to which you wish everyone else to conform.

Here's an analogy…

• The Earth is a spherical planet, about four billion years old. This has been proven, because we've been to space and we've used carbon dating on rocks.
• Life on earth is currently believed to be the result of natural selection, which we call evolution
• Every credible, genuine scientist engaged in serious study broadly concurs with this current understanding which is based on fossil record evidence and other factors including genetic research.
• You, Afib, believe that the Earth is flat and only six thousand years old and that all life was created by a mythical supreme being. When asked for proof, you say that the evolutionists are "fanbois" and that you don't need to provide evidence because proof denies faith.

Congratulations. You're a throwback to the Spanish Inquisition and a potential member of the Intelligent Design movement. And a hypocrite.

Jun 26, 08 - 04:29 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Ampar…

Four Yorkshiremen
Cheese Shop
The Piranha Brothers

@MCCFR

Based on your posts I'm getting the impression that Ha ha ha was another former poster called Afib? Is he just a Microsoft hack who trolls Mac boards or is he really that sutpid?

InTheShelter:


Your posts don't even make sense.

To you and, apparently, a great many other fanbois, too. It’s not my fault that you have minimal comprehension skills and basic levels of education.

You're trying to hold Apple to a standard and yet you're willing to let every other manufacturer off scott free?

No, you are wrong. What every other manufacturer may or may not do is their business, I expect Apple to exhibit honesty and openness, regardless of the dishonesty and furtiveness that other manufacturers employ. If you want to excuse Apple for using the same unprincipled and unscrupulous tactics that other use, that’s your opinion.

The detailed charts you ask for arent' necessary to prove higher sales YOY.

If “It is not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game.” Why do people keep score? Rigorous numerical analysis is the only thing that differentiates truth from fiction, reality from myth.

Apple has been blowing the industry average away by reporting 50% YOY increases in earnings calls and you say that those numbers aren't relevant unless you can tell how many of those sales are to new users versus existing users? A 50% YOY increase is a 50% YOY increase.

Past performance does not predict future events. Also, general statements tend to obfuscate the truth.

It doesn't matter whether they are new or existing customers.

If Apple’s customer base is exclusively former Mac owners, this means that there is no real “halo effect”. Apple’s future prospects are dim indeed if the only “switchers” are those 2 or 3 persons that MDN presumes to know about.

The data you ask for is not necessary to show increased sales so there is no need to provide it.

This comment is utter nonsense. How can you prove increased sales without the data to confirm it. You’re getting stupider by the second, fanboi.

By building a false argument and a request for data that no one can provide (because no one is measuring new versus old customers) you've knowingly set the burden of proof to a level that no one can provide.

If Apple is not collecting, analyzing, and examining appropriate and readily available data, they demonstrate a complete lack of intelligence and business sense. You know, like you. However, if Apple is collecting and analyzing these data, and is also concealing these statistics, I can only assume that the results of these analyses are not in Apple’s favor.

You've lost this argument several times over and you know it.

Surely I have if I have been arguing with fools.

@ha ha ha

"If Apple’s customer base is exclusively former Mac owners, this means that there is no real “halo effect”."

-Nor would the statistics you ask for prove anything one way or the other and you know it.

"How can you prove increased sales without the data to confirm it. "

-Thank you for making my point. The data to confirm it has been provided by several posts in this thread including my own where we pull from Apple's quarterly results. That is data and it is all that is needed to prove increased sales.

"If Apple is not collecting, analyzing, and examining appropriate and readily available data"

-It is readily available data? Well then you should be able to provide it for yourself, shouldn't you? So now you're caught. If it's readily available then YOU can find it yourself. If it's not readily available then how could anyone provide the information?

"Surely I have if I have been arguing with fools."

-Luckily you haven't been arguing with fools and that is why they have kicked your 10 year old arse up and down this thread.

So, as a way to close this thread I'll ask you to provide the same "readily available data" you've been asking for along with the source of that readily available data. Please feel free not to return until you have that data.

Jun 26, 08 - 04:47 pm Comment from: Ampar

To MCCFR: "Four Yorkshiremen, Cheese Shop, The Piranha Brothers"

Don't forget Pet Shop!

Mr. Praline: "'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

Jun 26, 08 - 04:55 pm Comment from: Ampar

To InTheShelter:

"Based on your posts I'm getting the impression that Ha ha ha was another former poster called Afib?"

Afib, Ha, ha, ha ho, Ho, ho, ho, He, he, he and a few random aliases. It's very easy to spot his posts - monotonous, angry, condescending and predictable.

Thanks Ampar. I come to the site every day but I stopped reading posts for a while because I found myself trying to talk sense into stupid people. Looks like I stepped right back into it with Afib!

Jun 26, 08 - 04:59 pm Comment from: Ampar

No problem, InTheShelter. It's also realeasy to figure out his actual motive.

Jun 26, 08 - 05:00 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Is he just a Microsoft hack who trolls Mac boards or is he really that sutpid?

The answer to both questions is "yes".

IntheShelter:

"If Apple’s customer base is exclusively former Mac owners, this means that there is no real “halo effect”."



Nor would the statistics you ask for prove anything one way or the other and you know it.



Utter nonsense. How would you measure the “halo effect” other than quantitatively, you moron?

"How can you prove increased sales without the data to confirm it. "



Thank you for making my point. The data to confirm it has been provided by several posts in this thread including my own where we pull from Apple's quarterly results. That is data and it is all that is needed to prove increased sales.

More nonsense, fanboi. You have NOT provided any specific data or analyses regarding quarterly sales and trends of sales for individual Apple products through 2007 and 2008.



"If Apple is not collecting, analyzing, and examining appropriate and readily available data"



It is readily available data?

Yes, yes it is, you cretin.

</b>Well then you should be able to provide it for yourself, shouldn't you?</b>

No, Apple should. Apple is the company collecting these data, you imbecile.

So now you're caught. If it's readily available then YOU can find it yourself. If it's not readily available then how could anyone provide the information?



Without a doubt, I have been arguing with fools. I would be glad to provide these data and statistical analyses; however, Apple has chosen to conceal this information from me and you, you tittering twit.

“Surely I have if I have been arguing with fools."



Luckily you haven't been arguing with fools and that is why they have kicked your 10 year old arse up and down this thread.



I wouldn’t expect a fool to recognize the fact of his foolishness.

So, as a way to close this thread I'll ask you to provide the same "readily available data" you've been asking for along with the source of that readily available data.

See above, moron.

Please feel free not to return until you have that data.

See above, pinhead.

Jun 26, 08 - 06:05 pm Comment from: MCCFR

You're trying to hold Apple to a standard and yet you're willing to let every other manufacturer off scott free?

No, you are wrong. What every other manufacturer may or may not do is their business, I expect Apple to exhibit honesty and openness, regardless of the dishonesty and furtiveness that other manufacturers employ. If you want to excuse Apple for using the same unprincipled and unscrupulous tactics that other use, that’s your opinion.

How is InTheShelter wrong?

He quite rightly observed that you want to let other manufacturers out of your one-sided, unilateral rules of transparency and you responded by saying "What every other manufacturer may or may not do is their business…".

In other words, you do want to excuse every company in the Microsoft universe because "it's their business", despite the fact that those companies are not even currently matching Apple's level of transparency or the fact that they are publicly quoted.

Again, I'll put some points to you…

• Apple's quarterly statements to the SEC (the 10-Q form) are a matter of public record. Uniquely in the industry, Apple's 10-Q actually states how many units of a given product group have been sold in the quarter.

• Making a statement which the company or its officers know to be inaccurate is unlawful and carries the threat of a Federal jail sentence.

• If you know that those statements are, and continue to be, falsified and you have evidence of such a crime, you are surely morally and ethically obligated to draw the attention of the authorities to that illegal behaviour. If you do not, you are surely guilty as an accessory during and after the fact.

• If you are simply making accusations without any foundation in fact, you are effectively defaming Apple and its officers.

• In either event, I challenge you to put your accusations in writing to the SEC and to copy that letter to the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. If you do not, then you are effectively admitting that you are a willing participant in a fraud against Apple's shareholders or that you are a coward hiding behind an alias.

• If you are simply making baseless accusations, then you probably have to ask yourself what is missing from your life that you have to deliberately enter into a forum for Macintosh "fanbois" and then proceed to generally act like a putz.

• Genuinely, why - if the Macintosh is such a minority platform - are you so insecure of it even achieving a modest increase in sales to, let's say, 5% of the global market when looking at quarterly sales data?

• Also, why - if the Macintosh is so over-priced - does it worry you if other people take the opportunity to purchase a Mac? It's not like as if you own or are considering ownership of a Mac.

Personally, I think Mercedes motor cars are overpriced, but I don't feel the overwhelming need to log into Mercedes owners forums and antagonise them by pointing out their links to the Nazis.

• And finally, why - if Leopard running on a Mac is technically inferior to Vista running on something from HP or Dell or any of the OEMs (which all lied to their customers) - does it worry you so much?

If you were in a competitive situation, you'd simply smile and allow us to get on with our folly and carry on doing your job more effectively than your opposition. Of coure - if we are still able to do our work as efficiently as you - than it proves that Vista's alleged technical superiority is, in reality, a myth.

@Afib

" I would be glad to provide these data and statistical analyses; "

-Great. Then provide it.

why are you guys even arguing with this numbskull? Apple is great!!

IntheShelter:

</b>" I would be glad to provide these data and statistical analyses; "

-Great. Then provide it.

Proof positive that you are a moron and a deceptive moron, too - you purposefully misquote other people and take their words out of context.

Careful, you may get spanked or receive a vicious tongue-lashing from SKYLARK.

From Jun 26, 08 - 05:17 pm:

"Without a doubt, I have been arguing with fools. <b>I would be glad to provide these data and statistical analyses; however, Apple has chosen to conceal this information from me and you, you tittering twit."

Jun 26, 08 - 06:39 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Afib…

And if it differs from Apple's 10-Q in any way, you should report it to the SEC!

Go for it. You owe it to the nation.