MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jul 29, 08 - 09:14 am Comment from: oh no my shorts

It gets harder and harder to support FSF's efforts when they stage such blatantly anti-Apple efforts as this.

Jul 29, 08 - 09:15 am Comment from: Jamie

Idiots, the lot of them.

If I was working the Genius Bar when one of these clowns showed up, I'd ban them for life from all Apple Stores.

Jul 29, 08 - 09:18 am Comment from: pastrychef

I hope these losers get arrested.

Jul 29, 08 - 09:19 am Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

I'm not sure there is enough tinfoil to make hats for all these bozos.

Jul 29, 08 - 09:20 am Comment from: MacNScott

So anyone who is a software developer is supposed to give their work away?

"that it thinks will pressure Apple into opening its software code" -- I agree with the idea of getting rid of DRM, but how does opening up one company's DRM help advance this aim? If anyhting it will make it more likely that DRM will prevail.

Either the folks who are leading this charge are utterly stupid, or they are the enemy misleading the well-meaning rabble.

Great, FSF, just great. In case you were wondering if this move will enlighten the masses and make everyone use open source software and nothing else, it won't. It will make mom and pop who are trying to get their mac, ipod, or iphone fixed by pissed at you for taking up genius bar spots.

Sorry to break it to you FSF, but not all people are programmers, and the vast majority don't care if software is free and open. They care if it is properly designed and works well, a few points your organization sorely lacks.

"How can users be sure that the GPS cannot be used to track their position, without their permission?"

Are they really that naiive that they would even ask this question? 1. What does GPS stand for? 2. Do you own any satellites? 3. Have you thought about this?

MDN word, 'poor'... say no more.

Jul 29, 08 - 09:28 am Comment from: DreamTheEndless

@MacNScott

Good call. Perhaps I should just tell my employer that I think all software should be free and that they don't need to pay me anymore. That way, I can contribute to the free software of the world. Of course, I can only contribute for about a month or so - perhaps after I run out of money I can get the free software foundation to pay my rent and buy gasoline for me...

I get so tired of these bozos...

1. They have no perspective.

2. They are fearful.

Jul 29, 08 - 09:30 am Comment from: shen

"Why does iTunes still contain so much DRM-laden music?"

umm, i think you mean iTMS there guys. iTunes only has what you load into it. the store has DRM 'cause the music industry sucks.

honestly, the music industry must just *love* this. we fight amongst ourselves while the criminals slip off to the bank to cash a check. thank you FSF for enabling criminals.

please save us from idiots.

Astute comment from zek:

"Either the folks who are leading this charge are utterly stupid, or they are the enemy misleading the well-meaning rabble."

"So they don't crash everyone's iPhones."

Clearly that's not working out.

"colluding to offer them DRM-free music while withholding it from Apple"

if Steve hadn't been such an A-Hole with the record companies in the past, he'd probably be getting a better reception from them now. And if he were truly morally opposed to DRM, he could just refuse to sell any DRM protected music. But despite what Steve may say in public letters, Apple loves closed ecosystems which lock customers in.

"How can users be sure that the GPS cannot be used to track their position, without their permission?"

The government can track your position through your cellphone when they need to. That's not iPhone specific, and for once, not wacky tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff.

"How does Apple plan to remedy this discrepancy?"

Probably in exactly the same way carriers do it today. For other phones they sure don't publish that they will help you to unlock your phone, but will give you the unlock codes if you call.

Darwin's theory doesn't work, they should have been dead. Why can't they just grow a brain!!!

Question #5 is an excellent one, and the answer to "why are you violating the law" is NOT best answered with "in the future, we will charge you a lot more and continue violating the law."

Offering a no-contract version of the phone does NOT address the issue of switching carriers.

It's obvious that these professional protesters have no clue. Apple would drop DRM in a NY second if the recording labels would let them, but they won't because they want to hobble the iTunes Music Store.

These imbeciles need to protest the RIAA & MPAA

I fully understand what the FSF is asking, but asking a lower level employee who can not and has been instructed never to answer such questions, such policies are common within the Apple stores. Employees are trained on the products of Apple Inc, not the policies or business dealings of Apple Inc.. So go and waste your time, I am sure the respond you will hear is; thank you but I can not comment on these matters, if you have any questions please address them to Apple Inc. Corporate headquarters, you can find there toll free phone number on there website, http://www.apple.com. Thank you and enjoy your apple products.

Now I would like to see the little ballless FSF try to hit SJ up in person, man, can you smell the ass wipings!

"3. The iPhone 3G has GPS support. How can users be sure that the GPS cannot be used to track their position, without their permission?"

That was the most stupid question... How can Nokia, HTC, Tomtom and all those devices can certifie that they worn't track you also? why aren't they asking the same to Nokia and Motorola?

Yes, 4/5 of those questions are absurd. However, I think the first question is extremely valid, and MDN's take on it is not the right response. Apple is walking a fine line when it comes to the openness of its iPhone/iPod Touch apps. Sure, I understand the concern about someone loading up an app with malicious code on a device that is basically perpetually online. However, I don't believe it is good policy for a single entity (in this case Apple) to decide what can and cannot go on a device.

What will the response be if Apple extends the app store model to Mac? What happens if a friend writes an app and wants you to test it out? If Apple extends this app store model, you'll first have to go through an authorization process before you can simply test a friend's app. That's really dangerous territory. Nothing lasts forever. The app store will eventually fail, and what will happen to the hundreds of dollars you spent on drm-ridden apps? Just look at what's happening with MS's PlayForSure drm music. That's what you can look forward to with your apps from the Apple-controlled app store.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:03 am Comment from: wyorancher

Someone should offer them a nice cup of "SHUT THE FARK UP!"

Jul 29, 08 - 10:04 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

Ever notice... While OS X has a EULA, it has no copy protection.

Why don't they drive to Redmond?

The music one is especially stupid. If Apple actively wanted DRM on their music then they wouldn't have done the deal with EMI. The only options as to why they still have it on other stuff is that either they for some reason want it on some but not all the stuff they sell, or that those companies won't let them remove it. The former is stupid and the latter is the the case.

The GPS point is equally stupid. Are they doing this for every company who sells a GPS enabled device?

Jul 29, 08 - 10:07 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

Oh yeah, and Richard Stallman is STILL an asshole.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:08 am Comment from: Ouate de Phoque

Taking lessons from Greenpeace?

Jul 29, 08 - 10:11 am Comment from: s

"3. The iPhone 3G has GPS support. How can users be sure that the GPS cannot be used to track their position, without their permission?"
Push the power off button and keep it off.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:13 am Comment from: Follower

"The iPhone 3G has GPS support. How can users be sure that the GPS cannot be used to track their position, without their permission?"

Why exactly does the FSF want to know the answer to this question? What unknown motives or shadowy organizations could they be dealing with who would want access to Apple’s GPS implementation specs? Couldn’t it be possible that the FSF wants this information to to supply to their space alien overlord masters in preparation for the imminent invasion of earth...?

Two can play the paranoid game.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:14 am Comment from: ron

F. S. F. , great initials. They could stand for many words.

F-in' Silly Freaks.

Go and protest your welfare office, because you obviously don't work for a living.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:18 am Comment from: Mo

Kooks

Jul 29, 08 - 10:20 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

From the FSF site:

"Currently, many people use proprietary software that denies users these freedoms and benefits. If we make a copy and give it to a friend, if we try to figure out how the program works, if we put a copy on more than one of our own computers in our own home, we could be caught and fined or put in jail. That’s what’s in the fine print of the license agreement you accept when using proprietary software."

This is where it all falls down. Their theory is that because the idea of free software is a good one, then no one should be able to create commercial software. Proprietary software isn't something that a company paid people to create for you, it's something that "denies users... freedoms and benefits". It's like saying that when I buy a Mustang, Ford has denied me the freedom and benefit of space flight and time travel.

These same people should be campaigning for an end to copyrights and patents. It's all the same thing, isn't it? That way anyone could load your software, change it any way they like, and put it out in to the world with no support or documentation. Wouldn't that be super?!
Have a problem with your Photoshop silent install for 2,300 seats, and it needs to be done by September 1st? Don't call me any more! Software is free, man!!! Now you can sit at home and figure out all your problems by your damn self! Need a patch? No worries! Some hippy will jump right on your problem out of the goodness of her heart. Peace, man. Hey, if you miss your deploy, you have a few more days to make Tie Dye. It's cool.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:21 am Comment from: Steve Jobs

No one is required to use the app store for your applications. Simply purchase a product other than the iphone, and get your apps wherever you want to.

If you don't like what Apple has to offer, you are free to spend your money elsewhere.

But I want to use my 1900 pirated songs!

Use your imagination.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:39 am Comment from: CYxodus

This had nothing to do with DRM, it's all about targeting Apple.

Jul 29, 08 - 10:53 am Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

I think Apple should issue Tasers to all of their Geniuses.

I would love to see one of those little FSF assholes thrashing on the floor. I'd be tempted to give them a few kicks in the ribs just for good measure.

My opinion of the FSF has gone down sharply as a result of this nonsense. By engaging in "symbolic" actions like this (which aren't going to accomplish anything real), they're making a mockery of themselves and what they stand for.

I strongly believe in open-source development, but the FSF thinks they have the One True Way all open-source should be done. I have no problem with the FSF expressing their viewpoint, but when they start engaging in "symbolic" nonsense like this which disrupts the lives of others, it's no wonder major companies view open-source development as hippie nonsense and incompatible with the way business works. Thanks a lot, FSF.

Jul 29, 08 - 11:10 am Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

Stallman is a crypto-commie whose behavior has limited Linux to a niche that can not coexist with a consumer electronics company. I love Linux as a foil to Microsoft, but Microsoft has suborned Linux by buying into key parts of the Linux supporting infrastructure–such as their deal with Novell–which neutered Suse, one of the best Linux distributions, while threatening other Linux supporters with lawsuits.

Screw these commietards.

Unless someone finds a way to hack it, the user has to allow apps to use CoreLocation data.

Just make your appointments when all these types are destroying property in Denver and St Paul for the political conventions.

Jul 29, 08 - 01:29 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

The Great Apple Fanboy Massacre,

" Allow me to proceed to systematically destroy your so-called "rebuttals" one-by-one:"

Okay, go ahead.

We're waiting.

You can begin anytime now.

Come on, we don't have all day.

Mmmm. Well, it looks like you got nuthin' bud.

I would give a rather different answer to #4. There aren't enough Ogg Vorbis users to make it worth doing. The codec may be free, but the effort to bring it up on the iPod, support it, and the space it takes on the device aren't free.

-jcr

"Ogg Vorbis and FLAC have been around for years "

And their uptake among users is limited to a handful of Linux weenies. Get over yourself.

-jcr

For the record: NO hardware manufacturer wants DRM. It's expensive to implement, it's a pain in the ass to support, and it annoys the customers. DRM only exists because the recording industry insists on it.

-jcr

Ask these:

1. When is Apple going to fix Safari for iPhone so it doesn't crash every other time you use it?

2. When is Apple going to fix OSX for iPhone so it doesn't bog down to a crawl so often?

Jul 29, 08 - 04:03 pm Comment from: grh

5. "In the future, AT&Twill;offer a no-contract-required option for US$599 (8GB) or $699 (16GB)."

...This allows you to use an iPhone without a contract on the AT&T;network. It doesn't allow you to use the phone with another carrier...

__________________________

Is this really true? I need to know. I've said it before and I'll say it again (though I seem to be a solo complainer) No one is a bigger Apple fan than I. Yet I will never buy an iPhone until I can use any carrier. I travel a lot. I have mobile phone numbers (i.e. sim cards) from a dozen different countries so I don't have to pay exorbitant roaming costs. I need to be able to swap sim cards at will.

"NO hardware manufacturer wants DRM. It's expensive to implement, it's a pain in the ass to support, and it annoys the customers. DRM only exists because the recording industry insists on it. "

But in Apple's case, it benefits them because it creates a lock in. if all those DRM iTunes customers could easily use any MP3 player of their choice, it would be harder for Apple to hold onto that 70% share. the small, already sunk cost of DRM in iPod and iTunes is nothing compared to that upside.

Apple could easily insist on carrying only DRM free music on iTunes. They don't. The fact that they're not prepared to back up some expressed abstract desire for a DRM free world with actual concrete action to get there makes their statements on the matter nothing more than standard Steve Jobs RDF Spin.

"And their uptake among users is limited to a handful of Linux weenies. Get over yourself."

True. But WMA in all it's forms is widely used and not going away any time soon. So why not support that?

And further why not license FairPlay protected AAC to anyone who wants to build a player to use it? If Apple truly wants to break down those DRM barriers, that's one thing they could easily do.

But they don't because they have no desire to support other codecs, or have people move off their formats or into a completely DRM free world, or to allow anyone to play iTMS songs. It's others who are leading that charge.

Jul 29, 08 - 05:08 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Apparently inbreeding is on the rise.

5. Why can the iPhone 3G only be activated by Apple and AT&T;? In the United States, the Register of Copyrights has ruled that consumers have the right to unlock their phones and switch to a different carrier. How does Apple plan to remedy this discrepancy?

Answer: If you don't like the contract, go buy another phone! No one including Apple or AT&T;is forcing anyone to buy the iPhone.

The main reason Apple won't sell other file formats, such as OGG is a very important one, and often overlooks. (Thanks to John Gruber for pointing this out.) The main reason is because those formats have questionable technologies in terms of copyright. Apple is afraid to use them because they are vulnerable to copyright lawsuits. The codecs can't be shown to be free of copyrighted IP. Quicktime is Apple's format. They're save using it, and it's perfectly fine for the quality required.

"No one including Apple or AT&T;is forcing anyone to buy the iPhone."

That does not make an illegal action legal.