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Basically, Apple is enemies with everyone.

Dec 22, 07 - 11:44 am Comment from: M.X.N.T.4.1.

Or Outlook (Microsoft) will eventually have to figure out how to work with the iPhone. I would rather see Apple nibble away at the edges then have Microsoft collapse when the world discovers that inside their is a rotten core.

I'm rooting for RIM, at least they don't tie you to one network to maximize their profits.

all these companies got in bed with MicrosH*t and now

Apple is running circle around them.

You can't just start a company and gain 30 years experience

Apple has worked very hard to get where they are, what people are afraid of is facing the truth. Apple is just getting started.

The next few years are just going to blow away the stuck in the mud window/ poor design/ poor software etc.

APPLE OS X GO STEVE!!!!

Make love not war.

Visualize whirrled peas.

Imagine all the people... living life with an iPhone!

Apple is the noisy kid in the back of the class. Part genius, part smart ass. The kid everyone knows, everyone knows is smart, but they love to pick fights with... I think they should get ready for some WHOOP ASS!

Dec 22, 07 - 11:54 am Comment from: Too Hot!

Just buy RIM and get it over with! That will give Apple the corporate market and then some.

Unlike other tech companies, RIM is lean and relatively problem free, with a thing or two that Apple could actually use and some decent engineers.

Dec 22, 07 - 11:57 am Comment from: iSteve

These phone guys thought it impossible for a non-phone tech company to just walk in the door. That of course ignores decades of working out brilliant UI's and lovable products.

I'd still like to see Apple take on the rest of the consumer electronics world, one great product at a time: TVs, cameras, receivers, etc... Then there is the business space with copiers, faxes, phone systems, and so on.

Dec 22, 07 - 12:05 pm Comment from: silverhawk

My Christmas wish is for Apple would make a phone for T-Mobile in the USA: uh, for sale in early 2008!

Dec 22, 07 - 12:19 pm Comment from: LorD1776

I agree with MDNs take. RIM isn't the enemy. They are an innovative and successful company who should be admired and not admonished for their accomplishments. I think a collaborative alliance between Apple and RIM would be very interesting. Let's make some new friends. After all, we know who the real enemy is, don't we.

Dec 22, 07 - 12:26 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Troy,

Beware of Greeks (or Canadians) bearing gifts.

Let's look at some numbers:

RIM sold 3.9 Million devices in their last quarter. Of this number, only 1.65 were to new subscribers. Their device is available in many more countries than the iPhone is. The current estimates for the iPhone is 3 Million units, and that's in only four countries in the world!! All 3 Million will be to new subscribers. In 2008, Apple could take over the position as leading smart phone vendor in the world.

Dec 22, 07 - 12:57 pm Comment from: Too Hot!

@Investor:

Good one!

However, the RIM advantage has always been corporate integration. So the vast majority of RIM sales go to businesses, whereas the vast majority (nearly all) iPhone sales are to consumers. So the overlap, and there is one, is relatively limited.

It is true that Apple does not need the corporate sector to be the leading smart phone vendor, but it seems to me to be a shame to waste the opportunity to take both sectors when what is seems to be required is just the lousy Exchange (and maybe Lotus) integration.

A bit of push-mail and networked calendaring can go a long way. And once the SDK is out, business applications that could eliminate the need for some laptops and other portables/POS/kiosks etc. would basically mean Apple iPhone could be the equivalent of MS Windows (in its OS domination) in the corporate smart phone business.

Would be nice to see a merger. Then the Blackberry Enterprise server could run on a nice Xserve!

Corporate America won't adopt the iPhone even if it was compatible with the servers and programs.

It's the fact that Apple over-charges for everything.

For instance, a little USB charger for the iPod is a whopping $40, which only costs a few dollars to make in China. Don't even ask how much the little charger stand is.

A crappy sounding iPod Hi-Fi which is nothing more than a simple stereo, ran into the hundreds of dollars.

Glossy screen desktops can't be used because it causes lawsuits against businesses by employees.

The iPhone? It actually costs $1480 with the two year contract, (the price of a MacBook without the features of one). One has to get their iPhone unlocked in order to get the real price of $399.

Corporate America is not Las Vegas, where people are old/bored and go to blow all their disposable income on entertainment.

Corporate America exists to provide people's needs, jobs and make investors a profit. The numbers have to work.

With Apple it's all about soaking the consumer, corporate america doesn't go for that.

Dec 22, 07 - 01:28 pm Comment from: macaholic

@Rising star:
"The iPhone? It actually costs $1480 with the two year contract, (the price of a MacBook without the features of one). One has to get their iPhone unlocked in order to get the real price of $399."

Horseshit! Please include cost of service plans for all smartphones over the same time period. BEFORE trotting out that tired old POS FUD. What a totally useless statement.
Bloody f-tard!

Dec 22, 07 - 01:32 pm Comment from: Macaday

It took TWO AND A HALF YEARS of Apple development to come up with the iPhone...

Copying it is NOTHING to do with the external appearance..it is to do with it's internals.

And neither RIM nor anyone else are going to come up with any comparable solution this side of 2010.

But we will enjoy watching their panic stricken efforts...

I saw crush RIM. I hate my blackberry. Can't wait to buy an iPhone. IT will have to work with the iPhone sooner or later.

Dec 22, 07 - 01:41 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Rising Star,

"Corporate America exists to provide people's needs, jobs and make investors a profit."

That was hilarious! Please post more comments like this. The world can use all the humor it can get.

"people's needs, jobs .... " AaaHaaaahaaahaaa !!! Yer killin' me !!!

Dec 22, 07 - 04:04 pm Comment from: Gandalf

Apple should leave iPhone/Exchange (and maybe Lotus) integration to third parties. Apple builds it in, Microsoft breaks it every other patch Tuesday.

Another reason to leave the situation as it is is that forward looking companies will be working with Apple kit and not the dinosaurs, leave them shackled to Microsoft.

Dec 22, 07 - 04:08 pm Comment from: Jubei

No serious IT department will ever allow iPhones in the company. Its either BB and their servers or ActiveSync. I hate to say it, if iPhone cannot support either one of these, it will never gain significant share in the business/corporate world. Making it a pain for users to keep carrying two devices, which I currently do now, and just like the AT&T;CEO.

Apple doesn't partner, even with its own developers. AAPL will nuke RIMM in 2008.

Blackberry Connect running on an iPhone is a win/win. There's no reason for Apple to want to nuke RIM. They're not in the same market, and RIM can help Apple get into enterprises with seamless integration to BES servers. RIM can be Apple's best friend and they're ABSOLUTELY not an enemy, so let's not be so anxious to nuke anybody.

Dec 22, 07 - 08:27 pm Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

I vote for war, not peace. Apple will eat RIMM's lunch. Those IT jackasses who stand in the way will learn to ask, "Do you want fries with that?"

Dec 22, 07 - 09:08 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

@ Jubei:

I'm optimistic about how the corporate situation is going to play out.

While it's very true that IT departments are not enthusiastic about supporting iPhones now, that's not indicative of the future. They weren't enthusiastic about supporting Palm Pilots or Blackberries when they first arrived either, but eventually they didn't have a choice except to integrate them.

All it would take is for an executive high enough in a company (C-suite is probably the best bet) to say "Make this work. Now." No IT department is going to tell a CEO or CFO or COO that they can't have the device they want. Eventually IT departments won't have a choice, and they'll come kicking and screaming into the present (until the next big thing comes out and then they'll kick and scream about that until they're backed into a corner).

IT departments are the new car mechanics: they try to tell you whatever is convenient for them, hoping you won't know enough about what they're talking about to challenge them. Except they take it a level beyond that by also telling you which car you're allowed to drive and where you're allowed to drive it. They're insufferable.

Dec 22, 07 - 09:30 pm Comment from: LorD1776

LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon,

All right, is that you G.W.?

Dammit man! RIM is a Canadian company. NOT IRANIAN !!!

RIM is a fraud that just loads tons of extra layers onto mail system that really aren't necessary - push is smoke and mirrors! RIM is innovative? right...

as to network synch of calendar...who needs it when you can read your calendar directly on your phone via a real web browser?

Exchange is so 1990s

Dec 22, 07 - 10:14 pm Comment from: LorD1776

caddisfly,

Not having used it, I can neither verify nor dispute your claims.
And I must agree that success and innovation do not necessarily go hand in hand. After all, look at MicroSoft. But I still don't understand why we should be against them.

People, people, please...

The iPhone is not the smartest phone on the planet. I doesn't integrate well with corporate Exchange servers and it doesn't run corporate based applications. At least not yet. The perceived initial intent of the iPhone was to create a phone that offered more than any other consumer-grade phone could offer and could also please/ satisfy businessmen. Thus, filling in a large gap in the market. Apple figured out how to successfully straddle the line between consumers and professionals. When you think about it, Apple helped invent the prosumer, but I digress. As long as the iPhone exists and remains 'the iPhone,' there will be people who will not need its features, and people who wish there were more. What is incredibly interesting to note is the ensuing hordes of people implicitly begging for it. Whether by unlocking the phone or jailbreaking the phone in order to suit their needs or even smuggling them to foreign countries, the statement is clear: PEOPLE WANT THIS DEVICE. Perhaps Apple used a little too much buzz marketing, maybe not, but let's face it. IT WORKED. When you stop everything in your head and think about it for just a moment...

A phone that works with 8 GB of my iTunes (I don't have to buy duplicates of all my songs and I might actually use my phone to listen to music)

A phone that delivers the best mobile browser (Looks just like my computer at home, I actually use it).

A phone with a map program that's more ingenious than GPS (I can figure out where OTHER PEOPLE ARE, what an f-ing amazing concept). Realistically, how lost do I get? How often am I totally lost, but have cell signal? GPS is such a waste.

A phone that delivers a revolutionary multi-touch interface that's truly state of the art for a mobile solution (whodathunkit?).

A phone that works as a GREAT PHONE, syncing any and all data to and from my Mac OR PC.

Hands down, the iPhone actually delivers on all promises that were made, a respectable gesture on Apple's part. We can all see that the iPhone has room to grow. I hope that one day, there will maybe be three iPhones. For instance, the iPhone Nano- for general consumers looking for a multi-touch, iPod and phone. the iPhone- as she stands today, and the 3G iPhone- a phone that integrates well into corporate culture and delivers on being the most powerful phone money can buy. Just thoughts...

Dec 23, 07 - 09:33 am Comment from: Jay-Z

First, there is no "lack of enterprise integration," only endless stubbornness and tunnel vision from Windows-only IT departments. To integrate the iPhone into corporate environments, IT departments need to open the IMAP protocol within the closed network (no security issue) and set up a VPN on the iPhone using VPN standards. Done. This is a secure solution. They are simply ignorant to it or refuse to adopt it for nonsensical reasons.

Second, has anyone ever realized that maybe Apple's supposed "lack of enterprise integration" is actually a good thing? If Apple ever officially supported Exchange and MAPI, it would just cement Microsoft's dominance in enterprise email. People are clamoring for this phone. It's only a matter of time before IT departments won't have a choice except to support it. When that time comes, they will have to embrace open standards, which will inherently weaken Microsoft's position. This is a very good thing. I, for one, hope that there is never a good solution for Exchange and MAPI on the iPhone.

and I say... KILL RIM!

Lazy, Yair... when a company takes that route instead of innovating... they should lose.

Research In Motion... stupid name. Implies nothing.
Specially for a telecommunications device co.

Apple will do what they offered Creative Labs.

Then it's over. Hurray for Apple!


Dougless

They can approach Apple and request and request and request...

Apple said it will offer open iPhone for developers.
Just w8, be frickin' patient. IPhone is still NEW.

AND it's UE blows EVERY YaIR with ease.
The device is a BEAUTIFUL GOSH DARN pleasure to use.
Apple's UI and UE will not be duplicated.

It took Apple LESS then ONE year to get this penetration into the global cellular market... THEY did a supberly - an amazing job.
The next two years, it will all be YAIR - trying to catch up... AND this is good for everyone... Apple changes the landscape. Jobs yet again put a dent into the universe.

Let see if Bill's table does the same? Snoozin'.

IT departments didn't want Macs, they got them, they didn't want OSX... but it happened... iPHONE is there already.

Waiting to be fully accepted. That's soon gentles; very soon.

Because, RIM with it's new/yet to be sold BlueBerry9000 will have to be AMAZING, far cheaper, and do all it claims FOR people to REPLACE the fleet of crap RIM put out there.

HOW many times is IT going to buy...
the work on a FRANKENSTEIN LIKE APPROACH... BITS AND PIECES OF crap here and there, putting together monsters out of control. Always requiring MAINTENANCE.

Ahhh, shoot I just understood why now... gosh...



Dougless

That's the crack APPLE filled.

Apple found a market inbetween CORPORATE and REGULAR CONSUMERS.

How often is CORPORATE going to replace it's phones because of Apple. Corporate will only replace the few memeber at the top of the Board with this BlueBerry9000... meanwhile Steve has the regular folk walkin' in with their personal iPhones looking SPECTAULAR and WORKING spectacular as well.

RIM will DIE or do I dare say -- maybe they will try to DUMP MS... NO -- that won't happen COS RIM is locked in with MacroSloth for the long run.

Apple already has WON!

The NEXT iPhone with the
NEW Intel Mobil chip will solidify Apples position.

goodbye RIM



Dougless

Dec 23, 07 - 01:16 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Dougless,

Just WHAT did you drink for breakfast? Hic!

Dec 23, 07 - 01:18 pm Comment from: Hm...

Jay-Z certainly nailed the IT at the uni where I work: "IT departments are the new car mechanics: they try to tell you whatever is convenient for them, hoping you won't know enough about what they're talking about to challenge them. Except they take it a level beyond that by also telling you which car you're allowed to drive and where you're allowed to drive it. They're insufferable." And add incompetent, to boot. We had system crashes that lasted for days, email meltdowns, etc., routinely. Sigh.

Dec 23, 07 - 01:52 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Hm...

I work for a small company with about 120 employees. It has a really lackadaisical attitude about IT matters that scares the crap out of me. People that have admin privileges who really shouldn't, PCs that aren't secure, idiots with internet access who surf the web and spend hours on MySpace. It's a major accident just waiting to happen. I have advised and bitched and gotten a little action but not enough. They just don't take it seriously.

They now use Dells with XP exclusively, so I don't think my fears are unfounded. If our system goes down it affects MY job and that ticks me off. All it will take is one of these saps with something really damaging and recent on their USB flash drive to destroy us, since many PCs don't have an anti-virus and those that do aren't kept up to date.

So depending on how you look at it, having an IT department that acts like the Gestapo isn't necessarily all bad. Of course, if they are goose stepping control freaks AND incompetent, then you're screwed anyway. "Sigh" is right.

OK, first of all... all you IT nay-sayers who think you know it all...

Something you need to remember is that corporate IT is there to provide business tools that have business purpose, at an acceptable price to the business. Note the accent on business!! The tools are there to assist the business, and its usually dictated BY the business as to what IT is supposed to do, and how (to a certain extent). IT are expected to provide security, reliability, functionality, and fit-for-purpose tools, on a completely re-produceable basis. And to do this at SLA's that often aren't achievable on the static or decreasing budgets that they are given.

Go support multi-thousand seat environments based on your little view of the world... where you spend 40 wasted hours tweaking your command-line terminal to get it 'just right', because it makes u 0.01% more productive than the default 'out-of-the-box' one.

Part of the issue (and this is a personal belief, based on my work in a MS-orientated outsource IT company) is the toolsets that people in the industry myopically gravitate towards. Supporting the MS environments is a serious PITA in terms of security and patching etc. But thats not going to go away, no matter what platform you run. Even if its not needed, it would still be expected to be provided with other platforms. Once bitten, twice shy.

And to be honest, while you lot are all sitting there w**king about Web2 this and social that, MS do actually provide toolsets which allow the corporate world to do a lot of deep integration between product sets and provide a lot of additional business orientated functionality with relative ease. The basic issue there is that its locked-in functionality, since MS just cant seem to keep themselves away from the 'embrace and extend' mindset.

The OS world, for example, is only just finally starting to make group calendaring solutions (that actually work) available. This is something that Notes and (the much maligned) MS Exchange have been doing for well over 10 years. To be honest, in my belief, its been the mail/calendaring architecture thats driven MS in the corporate environment as much as MS Office has.

Ive been trialing and reviewing IMAP solutions for years in the hope that they would provide the level of functionality to allow me to push the idea of ditching Exchange. I personally believe that corporate shops are painting themselves into a corner with MS products, which is going to create themselves serious legacy headaches WELL into the future. However, the problem is that the alternatives to the MS products often fall down in a number of areas. Corporate users would expect something (for example) at LEAST as easy, functional, integrate-able, and responsive, as Exchange / Outlook before looking elsewhere, and thats without looking at the $$$ involved.

The basic point Im trying to make here is that the sandpits are different. What works (and makes sense) in a consumer or individual, or small environment, often just doesnt scale in terms of supportability or cost or architecture. And at the end of the day, if you havent played in the sandpit, then you dont know what the sand is like.

/rant off

On a side note, I beat MS products round the head all day at work... and this is written on my 4y/o Power Mac at home, which I brought when it appeared that it would turn out to be the first user-friendly *NIX OS that would suit for both my AND my significant other. This was a great purchase and I really enjoy being able to come home and USE my computer, not having to spend a good portion of my free time SUPPORTING it.

However, I still believe Apple h/w is overpriced, and suffers from a lack of choice and configurability. I use Macs at home because of OS X, pure and simple. NOT because its on Apple hardware (which is very nicely made, but not exceptional).

I bought an iPhone for my wife, but I'm keeping my
BlackBerry. For a corporate email user, the iPhone simply stinks. Putting aside its inability to get push mail over a secure-enough server, the thing can't even cut and paste!!! No kidding!! I tried to figure out the geniously intuitive way Apple put it in there and had to go to a web site to learn that no cut and paste existed for this phone. You also can't search in mail or in contacts. That's just software laziness because both those things should be no-brainers for Apple which has the best search protocols of any computer. So far, the iPhone is just for the instant message crowd.