MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Apr 24, 09 - 09:35 am Comment from: Jamie

...while Dell can slightly undercut comparable XServe hardware costs from Apple before adding Windows Server, Microsoft's software licensing dramatically balloons the costs businesses face to deliver the same features Mac OS X Server can, which Apple bundles on its Mac servers at no extra cost.

BOOM! That's it, right there.

Apr 24, 09 - 09:36 am Comment from: iSteve

The Microsoft tax!

Damn, look at the totals in that chart... ouch.

iSteve, absolutely right.

Apple should do a commercial of a CIO shopping for a corporate mail server for 100 users with only $4000 to spend.

Apr 24, 09 - 09:50 am Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

This is big news. The iPhone was the trojan horse to get Apple into businesses. Now with many businesses supporting iPhones for their employees, the IT guys will start to allow Snow Leopard servers into their shops to at least support iPhones. Then, when the boss says you have to cut 15% from your budget or you are cut, the IT guys' loyalty to MS will be tested and I suspect saving money by moving to Apple Enterprise products will be preferable to the unemployment line.

The problem for MS is that its Enterprise licensing is its cash cow along with Office. Therefore, they cannot afford to cut their licensing fees significantly to compete with Apple, because if they do they start losing money.

The morale of the story is that when you have a monopoly you can overcharge customers for absolute crap. But when the monopoly starts to crack, you are toast. So, here's a good advertising tag for MS in about 5 years:

We are Microsoft and we got nothin'.

Well, it's about effin' time!!!
Go Apple!

now if they would only put this chart towards the mac family, they would be rolling at a faster pace.

Apr 24, 09 - 10:04 am Comment from: WTFrank

And still, they'll want to run windows on it.

It's the town drunk scenario. You sober him up, clean him up, feed him, get him a decent job, and he still goes back to the bottle and living in Andy's cell because he likes it.

Let's start a countdown to mark when Apple's market cap is larger than Microsoft's.

Apr 24, 09 - 10:09 am Comment from: CheekyGit

Ballmer, you've been FACED!!!

Apr 24, 09 - 10:15 am Comment from: Think

Just hang that chart in your office.
Next time the IT PC drones want to argue price, just point to the chart.

Apr 24, 09 - 10:15 am Comment from: DLMeyer

Yes ... it will be interesting when the PO comes down to buy two small/fast servers for under $8K - 6-to-10-users each - and they discover Apple and Linux are the only choices in town. 26 users each? Hmm ... can't even get ONE Windows server for that!
Of course, they will have to hire/train a *nix-savvy admin to keep them running ... what could we spend the $50K/box we saved on? And when they discover that one more-expensive *nix admin can handle more servers than one less-expensive Windows admin? The may not totally abandon Windows, but "there will be changes".

Apr 24, 09 - 10:28 am Comment from: jocknerd

Apple should hire that Lauren chick for a commercial. Give her $5000 to find a server. And she gets to keep the change!

Apr 24, 09 - 10:29 am Comment from: iSteve

The next 5-10 years will be as much fun as the past 5-10 years to watch.

Apr 24, 09 - 10:45 am Comment from: wannabe

CALs are the most evil software license scheme ever invented. Their purpose is to charge an absolute incredible fortune for a piece of software like Exchange Server by allowing IT to quietly distribute the cost through the organization. Essentially they can submit a proposal for a server+software that costs something like $20,000 without mentioning that the implementation will add hundreds of dollars to the cost of each new PC. PC purchases are often on the budget of individual departments rather than IT's so the ultimate effect is a giant money funnel to Microsoft.

Apr 24, 09 - 10:58 am Comment from: Jubei

Thats amazing number. I wonder what the CIO of a company would do when presented that information? I'm sorry to say, probably nothing. That MS monopoly extends to the IT/CIO individuals who thinks every solutions they need can only come from MS and Windows based solutions. No matter how much it cost them. Unfortunate isn't it.

Apr 24, 09 - 11:00 am Comment from: NCMacMan

Microsoft is the evil bane to capital and operational budgets. Our org was snowballed into upgrading our mail and file systems from Novell to Outlook and Sharepoint.

They say it was to save a whopping $90k in annual licensing fees. I can't wait to see what the actual licensing total is once the dust settles -- I bet it ends up north of $500k for the organization.

Apr 24, 09 - 11:01 am Comment from: NCMacMan

BTW, the lost productivity in just moving to sharepoint has been staggering. My department alone has eclipsed the $90k "saved" in licensing by lost productivity. Sharpoint is awful!

"Apple should do a commercial of a CIO shopping for a corporate mail server for 100 users with only $4000 to spend."

solafide your idea is genius. That would be so "in your face" to Microsoft. I'd love to see that commercial....please do it Apple!

Um, does no one at AppleInsider (or here at the MacDefenseNetwork) know that any small business (up to 75 users) can run M$ Small Business Server 2008 (a complete bundle which includes the aforementioned W2K8, EXCH2K7, SQL2K8, WSS 3.0) for about $1100 and CALs are $77 each?

Suddenly their "cost analysis" isn't so striking, not that they were ever interested in anything resembling an accurate comparison, mind you. Nevertheless, it's good that Apple is trying to build a business case for businesses; let's just not pretend that M$ hasn't been playing there for a long time.

Apr 24, 09 - 11:25 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

CALs are not the only Microsoft Tax. We are about to install a 40-user MS Dynamics CRM (don't ask) for a charity with no extras, legacy-tie-ins or tailoring and the cost is well over £35,000 ($US51,000) including a 60% discount.

Much of the cost is to the installer, but the MS Tax goes well beyond 'Laura'-type consumers.

Microsoft Tax and a half - ouch! Those numbers should get some attention for sure.

Apr 24, 09 - 11:37 am Comment from: Jersey_Trader

"Apple should do a commercial of a CIO shopping for a corporate mail server for 100 users with only $4000 to spend."

I agree with both of you solafide and mac fan, your idea is genius and should be made today by someone even as a YouTube. "That would be so 'in your face' to Microsoft. I'd love to see that commercial....please do it Apple!" NOW!

Apr 24, 09 - 11:40 am Comment from: Roger Knights

The server side has always been Apple's weak spot and a hidden reason businesses have been slow to Get A Mac. I'm glad Apple has recognized the problem and "taken steps."

Incidentally, the impression I get from what I've read of earlier statements from Apple is that it has tried to mask its intentions about this attack--presumably to lull MSFT. If so, I wonder there are other maskings-before-the-attack Apple that might be engaged in. I hope so.

Taking Another IT Guy's numbers as gospel:

Mac OS X Xserve: $3749

Dell PowerEdge 1950: $3215
MS Small Business Server 2008: $1100
75 CALs: $5775 (per year)
Total: $10090

Still looks striking.

Apr 24, 09 - 11:50 am Comment from: LateRegistrant

@Basic Math Guy

Even more striking after those CALs are renewed.

Apr 24, 09 - 11:50 am Comment from: HMCIV

Still waiting for that iPhone OS Server edition.

The Zen of Steve. Did anyone notice how he did that? Made great software, built some business hardware/software, then, when nobody was looking, voila, the "real" business suite starts to show up. Feng-shui for certain.

Apr 24, 09 - 12:36 pm Comment from: Gregg Thurman

Entry into the Enterprise has always been through IT and the company's server farm.

Apple's strategy is completely transparent. Build products the employees want (not the MS trained IT guys), then undercut IT's arguments in favor of MS power by undercutting the price dramatically. Once IT is ordered to cut costs they will favor saving their jobs over saving MS. Elimination of MS's hold over IT means widespread deployment of Mac desktops. Brilliant.

"Let's start a countdown to mark when Apple's market cap is larger than Microsoft's."

Three years, max.

Apr 24, 09 - 01:00 pm Comment from: ron

Am I banned MDN? God Bless America.

BTW, I'm buying an Apple server.

Apr 24, 09 - 01:11 pm Comment from: Roger Knights

"Let's start a countdown to mark when Apple's market cap is larger than Microsoft's."

Here's an article posted today, "How Soon Can Apple's Market Cap Surpass Microsoft's?" The answer implied by the chart seems to be, "Within a Year." (MDN should repost that chart.)

http://seekingalpha.com/article/132943-how-soon-can-apple-s-market-cap-surpass-microsoft-s

Ohhh...that's gotta burn!

The M$ choke hold on the enterprise will either have to endure some serious cost questions by enterprise users or M$ will have to scale back their per-user charges to compete. Either scenario results in lost revenue for M$.

Apr 24, 09 - 01:36 pm Comment from: Spark

Windows b!tch slapped

Apr 24, 09 - 03:06 pm Comment from: Jubei

I'd changed your username if I were you. "another IT guy" basically "another idiot talking guy"

"Taking Another IT Guy's numbers as gospel:

Mac OS X Xserve: $3749

Dell PowerEdge 1950: $3215
MS Small Business Server 2008: $1100
75 CALs: $5775 (per year)
Total: $10090

Still looks striking."

Also, the Mac OS X Server covers 100 users. I notice the MS special is for 75. So, do the next 25 to bring it up to par come in at a higher price bracket? You can probably add another $2500 for these extra 25 licenses.

"75 CALs: $5775 (per year)
Total: $10090"

Actually, it's only $5390 for the CALs (you get five with SBS08) and while I wouldn't expect you to know that being a Macolyte, CALs don't expire--it's a one-time purchase. You own them outright. Total cost under that scenario is $9705, which is still more than the Apple option, but not nearly the contrast that was initial made by an enthusiastic yet clearly ignorant AppleInsider.

If you're going to slag on M$ at least be accurate, lest you provide more fodder to the folks that disparage Mac users as ignorant of tech specs and capabilities.

Apr 24, 09 - 04:14 pm Comment from: Gregg Thurman

"The M$ choke hold on the enterprise will either have to endure some serious cost questions by enterprise users or M$ will have to scale back their per-user charges to compete. Either scenario results in lost revenue for M$."

This is already happening. MSFT just reported its first ever Year over Year reduction in gross revenue and net earnings. This is going to accelerate as more and more switch to Mac and iPhone?

Each Mac switcher represents 3 PV purchases over the subsequent 10 years. So a switcher today isn't just one license of Windows not sold, its 4 over the a 10 year span. Switching began in earnest about 4 years ago and the number of switchers continues to grow each quarter.

Additionally, Windows Mobile is going to disappear as a viable mobile OS. MSFT's largest licensee of Win Mobile is HTC, but their sales this past quarter were down 30%. On top of that HTC's Dream handset (powered by Android) is proving to be a strong seller. The combination of the two factors means that Win Mobile sales are down in excess of 30%, with little likelihood, in the face of iPhone and Android growth, of recovery.

The monolith has been mortally wounded.

@Another IT Guy...
"If you're going to slag on M$ at least be accurate, lest you provide more fodder to the folks that disparage Mac users as ignorant of tech specs and capabilities."

It's not so much that Mac users are ignorant of tech specs and capabilities. We are just totally fed up to the back teeth with the obfuscation of the issues by MS and its propensity for coming up with yet more sales schemes to scare customers into parting with their dosh, new ways of screwing businesses over and generally holding technology back.

Its just that so many of those tricky little tech specs and technologies that are so interwoven and interdependent (for one reason only), seem to propped up by the IT Dept wizards initiated by MS in the arcane arts of MSophistry.

Oh, there's a policy that a proposed product must conform to this or that spec with this or that security certification? I guess that counts Macs out then. But, hang on, where did some of these notions come from? An industry reliant on a real dog's breakfast of an OS that tortures itself completely into knots to accomplish anything.

Here's a thought: what if half of this stuff isn't really necessary afterall? Makes a person actually want to wake up in the morning and go to work. I guess the hidebound in the IT industry will wake up one morning and see more and more of the world passing them by. I don't think all the incredible stories from small (and large) businesses who have actually made the switch are totally out to lunch (mind you, they are out to lunch; because they don't have to sit and baby sit their mind-blowing investment).