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Apple can be a bit...um... anal.

Sep 23, 08 - 04:25 pm Comment from: WillieFisterbut

So instead of making things more plain for the developers they're just going to try to shut them up? Go Apple!

Sep 23, 08 - 04:35 pm Comment from: Willie G

wow... I really hope the next person who gets an interview with Steve Jobs takes him to task on this. This really bad business practice by Apple.

As much as I love my iPhone, I kinda wish the developers would take a unified stand and pull all of their apps off the store and refuse to create new ones until Apple decides it wants to be reasonable.

This is really the wrong way to go Apple.

Sep 23, 08 - 04:53 pm Comment from: Randian

Don't agree, Muffin Man. It's Apple's playground, its teeter-totter, its standards of behavior. Don't like 'em? DON'T USE 'EM! Find a different playground and vote with your feet. Try T-Mobile's new playground. How about WinMob's? Treat you better there? Then PLAY THERE! And quit belly-aching about how you didn't like the other place.

I really like Willie G's idea. If only there was a central forum where iPhone developers could discuss and agree to do that...

Thank you Apple for keeping control of the App Store, and bitchslapping the crybabies that want to fsck it up with useless, bloatware shit.

While Apple needs to be careful what apps they decide to reject, I do not have a problem with them rejecting the email and podcasting apps mentioned in the article. Apple is all about simplicity and making the user experience for the average user as smooth as possible. If someone downloaded those apps without really knowing what they're doing they could certainly get confused and become frustrated with their Apple product.

@x: Useless bloatware? I assert that the App Store is curently inundated with *useless bloatware*. The two applications that have been notably rejected recently actually add desirable functionality to the phone.

Apple is "bitchslapping" every single Gmail user with more than one account...

Score one for Apple's nattering naybobs of negativism!!

I think this is all traditional "mountain out of a mole-hill" stuff. Developers (coders) are notorious for seeing the world in black and white. Either Apple is a company sent from heaven, or the slightest block to what they want to do is considered purest evil.

Apples problem here is really the same one it has with everything lately. A failure to communicate. Sure it's annoying and if the execs had any smarts at all they would try to turn things around before the PR hit gets too bad. Maybe they will, but the "lack of communication" problem has always been with Apple and in the past it was considered a plus. Steve Jobs himself thinks it's the "right way to go" to stay silent on most issues. Times have changed, the company has changed, and the mac consumer has changed (a lot). Whether Apple realises this or how long ti takes to realise this is anyone's guess.

If they *were* communicating properly though, it would quickly become kind of obvious that most of the things they have banned are totally reasonable and should have been expected to be banned by the developers themselves.

Ironically, the one app that was banned that Apple just doesn't have a leg to stand on in terms of reasons why... is the fart app. It's arguably not offensive in almost any culture on the planet, was not a scam, and did not duplicate the functionality of any of the base apps.

Sep 23, 08 - 05:26 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

Apple's beefed up NDA won't stand up in court. You can't send a mail to someone and state that parts of it are under NDA, when the second part hasn't agreed to it. This just might backfire, and that is not good for my usual favourite, Apple. I say usual because they are being a bit draconian about this now.

Bad show, Apple.

If some developers don't like the way Apple runs it Apps Store, carry your ass over to that turd Google phone, or MS, or, hell, pick one.

The discipline that Apple enforces and that the crybabies can't handle is exactly what makes the store a success.

You babies .... haul ass!

Sep 23, 08 - 05:56 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

While I agree that Apple really doesn't have to explain anything. It's their playground ( as was stated earlier). Sure they could communicate better, but they certainly don't have too.

Apple also knows that we want a camera on the front of our iPhones for vidoe chats, but they know we will buy them whether they are there or not.

Business is about being smart, it's not about being what other people what you to be. The customer is only right when they are right.

I'm gonna pile on with the critics on this one. Apple needs to chill out... and open up. I've been an Apple-only user for 25 years (since I was 8) and an Apple stockholder since right after the crash in 2001. The iPhone is great stuff and I love mine, but Apple needs to face the fact that crippling its OS and distribution channels has already crippled any positive "buzz" the iPhone had, and will soon cripple innovation too if they keep going like they are.

Open it up... I wish Apple had done with iPhone what Google is doing. Multiple carriers, multiple sales channels, multiple user processes. Time for a U-turn here, Apple!

Sep 23, 08 - 06:17 pm Comment from: Willie G

@ fredo,

I think your assessment is a little off base. For Apple to take Google's approach would work for the iPhone, as said approach is reliant upon the Android OS shipping on numerous devices from different manufacturers. There is too little control there. I do think that Apple needs to take a hard look at the relationship they are fostering with 3rd party developers. By making clear guidelines, and loosening up the NDA to allow devs to compare notes they could go along way toward mending the bridges they are currently burning.

Sep 23, 08 - 06:25 pm Comment from: Predrag

"Apple's beefed up NDA won't stand up in court. You can't send a mail to someone and state that parts of it are under NDA, when the second part hasn't agreed to it.

Actually, not correct. When you sign up for that iPhone Developer programme, and pay that $100, you also sign an NDA agreement. This agreement is rather broad and it doesn't allow you to talk to other developers about your work. It also allows Apple to extend it to any communication related to the Developer Programme.

The rejection letter Apple sends to the developers is clearly directly related and is obviously under the same NDA that the developer agreed to when they became iPhone developer.

Silly Macolytes; if you don't drink all your Cupertino Kool-Aid, Uncle Stevie will whack your peepee...

Sep 23, 08 - 08:22 pm Comment from: Brau

With each passing day this iPhone I bought is becoming more of an embarrassment than a joy. I certainly can't continue to recommend it if Apple's fascist ways continue. Nobody wants to see the cool software or how it works, they just balk at me about Apple's control over the software and want no part. Now they'll be asking me how I could buy a product from a company that uses gag-orders to silence dissent.

Go ahead Apple. Kill the golden goose. Litigate it away.

Sep 23, 08 - 08:41 pm Comment from: Brau

" Apple needs to face the fact that crippling its OS and distribution channels has already crippled any positive "buzz" the iPhone had"

I agree. That is my experience as an iPhone owner as well.

Their playground.
My trike.

Sep 23, 08 - 08:49 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

So take your trike to another playground. You are a number and we at Apple will replace you.

Dear Steve,

Do you like being number one? Did you notice that a cheap knockoff by Google is hot on your heels? It is only a matter of time before the loyal denizens of iPhone land leave and write for Google. Buck up buddy and let the consumer decide what they want to use.

Afterall, there are over 100 music, podcast aggregators out there for Mac and Windows, yet the number one program is.....iTunes.

As you have said time and time again about DRM, it's not about squelching the product, it's about making the BEST product so that people will choose to go with you.

Right, Predrag, Apple didn't have to BEEF UP anything. Anyone who's had any confidential communication from Apple would see that ever email has verbiage stating that the information in the email is under NDA.

Apple's actually being "nice" by reminding them instead of just cutting them loose (breach of contract) and keeping their money.

Sep 23, 08 - 10:39 pm Comment from: MacintoshSoftwareList.com

I am not going to say anything because I might want to write an app some day.

Bad Apple. Smacks of big brother.

Suggestion: Enable all; control by categorizing: "Not Recommended" or "Frivolous" and have an option in the store to NOT display certain categories - sparks of nannyism but better than censorship.

If there was a way that a developer could show the scope/specifications of the program to Apple before he starts programming and would get an OK or declination that would help.

The trouble with some "switchers" is that they carry over their bad ideas, habits and expectations with them.

Some have switched due to the very problems that they experienced on MS based PC's - and now, incredibly, they try to encourage the very same bad, deficient, imperfect, defective, bad, faulty, shoddy, bad, amateurish, careless, bad, negligent, miserable, bad, incompetent, inept, inexpert, bad, ineffectual; awful, atrocious, appalling, bad, execrable, deplorable, bad, terrible and abysmal PC centric practices on to the Apple system.

... Did I mention BAD?

Frick'n hell, the ball is not only still in the air, it is still on an upward trajectory.

Sep 24, 08 - 01:59 am Comment from: Mel Gross

Actually, not correct. When you sign up for that iPhone Developer programme, and pay that $100, you also sign an NDA agreement. This agreement is rather broad and it doesn't allow you to talk to other developers about your work. It also allows Apple to extend it to any communication related to the Developer Programme.

The rejection letter Apple sends to the developers is clearly directly related and is obviously under the same NDA that the developer agreed to when they became iPhone developer.

I think this attitude stiffles innovation and competition. Although SJ said 'apples direct competitor is apple' I would love to see some competition for them. Are they afraid? Open communication between developers is a very good thing, shutting people up with legal threath is silly. I hate to be locked in, although I love my phone.

Apple is being very careful to protect its control over iPhone to ensure that NEWBIE DUMBOS won't get confused and misuse the iPhone. Look at the idiots who are suing Apple already over stupid claims about reception or whatever. And prior to that, the Nano scratches lawsuits. A lot of non-techies WILL get confused by the extra Mail app, or download VIRUSES from NON-APPLE CERTIFIED APP SOURCES. Isn't it frickin' obvious people?!

An Apple Writer

Sep 24, 08 - 08:38 am Comment from: Predrag

Mell Gross,

I haven't seen the NDA that comes with the Dev Programme myself (I'm not a developer) but have heard from others about it. It is my understanding that the NDA covers any communication between the developer and another third party related to the development of his software, as well as any communication between Apple and this developer, regarding his software. In other words, it seems that the NDA is quite specific, albeit rather broad, in restricting disclosure related to the application development. This is why developers aren't allowed to share ideas and it's another thing they're complaining about. Some of them have figured our a way to circumvent this by banding signing each other as sub-contractors and paying each other token amounts as fees.

So, in simple terms, with that NDA, you're not allowed to talk to others about what you're developing and how; you're not allowed to talk to others what you've been talking about with Apple, if it's related to the development of apps under the SDK and Dev Programme (obviously, if you had talked to their tech support about a problem with your MBP, that's outside of the NDA).

'I've been an Apple only user for 25 years'

Bullshit. An Apple only user would have switched to a Mac years ago.

How much does Microsoft pay to blog negative comments? I could use some extra cash.

Sep 24, 08 - 11:51 am Comment from: Mel Gross

Predrag, this seems to be an addition to the NDA. The NDA doesn't appear to cover this type of communication, which is why Apple added it. An NDA can;t be so broad as to cover ever eventuality. It must be more specific. While you can tell someone not to reveal specifically what is in a communication, you can't tell them not to mention that there was a communication. If that was not in the NDA at all, which seems likely here, then you can't simply add it later.

You also can't write an NDA that says you can have it cover anything you want it to. No one would ever sign NDA's like that.

"Many thousands of developers seem to be able read, understand, and abide by Apple's rather clearly spelled out SDK terms."

Not so, they're just lucky to have not been hit by a drive by banning from Apple - yet. Once their Apps get too good or too useful, Apple's going to shoot them in the head.

"The two applications that have been notably rejected recently actually add desirable functionality to the phone."

Right on. Apple isn't banning the useless tip calculators or weather display apps or even apps that compete poorly with built in apps. Despite many applications outwardly breaking the SDK terms (depending on your intepretation of Apple's vauge and indistinct criteria for banning) they get to stay.

What we have is Apple using arbitrary criteria to ban apps it sees are actually useful, would get some traction and take money out of Apple's pocket.

That's just wrong.