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I see intel stock falling

This is a brilliant move. When Apple introduces it's new Instant Messaging product and THEN upgrades other wireless devices (Touch, iPhone or others) there will be little that the competition can do.

for a contrasting opinion - see RoughlyDrafted: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/04/24/why-did-apple-buy-pa-semi/

There is no way Apple is walking away from Intel as this article states. This direction has given Apple the ability to run windows and OSX on the same hardware - which is winning them sales. They didn't move a platform to intel to then switch back.

They will, however, try to differentiate their hardware - possibly to keep Apple hardware lucrative - and to shoot companies like PsyStar in the ass. Apple may decide to integrate a few custom chips onto the intel-designed motherboard - supplemental hardware level CPUs that augment the system in some cool-next-gen Apple way. PsyStar can't run out to NewEgg to get these chips - disabling their systems, or making them unable to run the best features that you can only get from Apple hardware.

Think about it -

but will they be able to update their chips fast enough to keep up with the other chip makers out there? It's a dangerous game to make your own processors...

Apr 24, 08 - 10:43 am Comment from: Buster

Great...now it will be Apple Core duo


Let the jocularity begin.

Apr 24, 08 - 10:48 am Comment from: IEEE1394®

So, let's say all this is true and Apple does put these processors in more than iPhones/iPod Touches and the like (read Macintosh computers); what the hell happens to the ability to run Windoze on Macs? I think losing that ability could once again hurt Apple, not to mention the fact it would be yet another platform change for developers to adjust to.

"Well", you say, "there could be more to this than meets the eye!" Oh? Really" "Yeah! What if these processors would still be able to run X86 OSes and programs, perhaps even independent of each other, through a new-fangled type of virtualization? And what if I told you Apple and PA Semi have been developing such technology through a secret project for the past year-or-s0. Would you be intrigued?"

Why yes, yes I would!

Well, all that is just speculation of course, but I think this would need to be a reality in order for this type of thing to get traction and not hurt Apple in the long-run. And, oh yeah, lest we forget about all those developers and creating programs for this "New Mac architecture". It would have to be a no-brainer for them, no real change in how they create Apps using X-Code. Keep building with X86 and PPC (or whatever the new name for it would be) in mind.

Who knows, all speculation. But if they could do this SEAMLESSLY, than I could see it being a HUGE win for Apple (thinking different and all...) but if there is even the littlest of hiccups, that could potentially spell a disastrous outcome.

Eh, just my .02¢.

Apr 24, 08 - 10:51 am Comment from: Spark

At less than $300 million Apple was able to deliver pretty powerful, yet inexpensive, "Pay attention to me" message to Intel. I think Apple is enjoying its relationship with Intel, but wants them to develop unique, exclusive product to help differentiate Apple products. Jobs very publicly thanked Intel and gave them credit for working with Apple to develop the chip in the MB Air. No sooner was MB Air announced than Intel turned around and began hawking this new chip to all of Apple's competitors. I'm wondering if this isn't Steve Jobs way of telling Intel that Apple expects different treatment, and to not get too comfortable in thinking of Apple as a locked in customer.

Go to Dan Eran Dilger for the reality behind this story: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/04/24/why-did-apple-buy-pa-semi/#more-1780

Apple are not going to start making chips; PA Semi doesnt manufacture chips, they are a design house.

Apple wanted the 150 employees and the design patents.

Apr 24, 08 - 10:52 am Comment from: IEEE1394®

@Spark

Good insight. That sounds very Jobs-ian to me.

Apr 24, 08 - 10:53 am Comment from: Jim - TIV

@don't believe the hype...

you really believe that apple just spent 200+ million so they could thwart a small, run out of their garage, maybe sell 100 computers a year startup?

no. there's something else going on here.

Apr 24, 08 - 11:06 am Comment from: Ampar

". . . and to shoot companies like PsyStar in the ass."

They hired Dick Cheney?

No, Ampar, you'd have to be a blithering idiot to hire Cheney.

Of course, that didn't stop 49% of the voters in 2000 and 2004 from doing so.

Apr 24, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: Priused

Apple wants everyone to believe that they purchased PA for their design expertise. While that may be true, I suspect that Apple is looking for the expertise to design some very specific chip sets. I doubt that Apple would try to replace the main CPU on any of its existing products, and it is very unlikely that Apple would buy PA to replace any other chip that is currently in use in their products. It would be logical to assume that the design expertise is for a future product, one that the chip industry doesn't have an ASIC for.

My guess is that Apple may need to design some custom graphic chips for 'potential' products like the '3D Display' or for the 'Asteroid' product (which I still believe is part of the Apple TV product line).

Just my 2¢ worth.

Apr 24, 08 - 11:16 am Comment from: Jim - TIV

@Sum Jung Gai

(hands him a cup of coffee) - wake up and smell the humor bro.

regarding the Roughly Drafted article listed above. Just read it and it makes a ton of sense. Looks to me like Dan has a great understanding of what's going on inside SJ's head.

Did anyone think that maybe Apple is using this acquisition to leverage a better pricing deal from Intel?

Earl of Contrast is right, the engineering staff alone is a reason to buy the company.

Now if they had bought AMD instead, I'd say this is a huge story. They could copy the old Commodore/MOS plan (profit off competitor's, while you get your CPU's at cost). Apple could sell AMD/ATI processors, chipsets, and video cards that can run mac regardless of the box maker. Profit coming from competitor's hardware and software sales would ensure that the Apple box was always competitively priced.

PA Semi designs processors, it doesn't make them.

Apr 24, 08 - 11:23 am Comment from: Cubert

I actually think that Apple plans on sending some of these new engineers over to Intel plants to help design chips just for Apple.

Apple never has and never will make their own chips!

And, Sum Jung Gai's response was humorous, too. He got what Ampar was saying.

WOW, outstanding Point DontBelieveTheHype, that is 100% true. Apple, instead of Axing Intel x86 Architecture (therefore destorying windows compatibility) could instead incorporate these new chips from its chip company, making it harder to get Mac Clones, and making Apple hardware different again. They can also benefit from this, they can use their own chips to make macs faster, add new capabilities, ect.

This is a Huge Step for Apple. And shows their keen business finesse once again.

I don't know which article is the stupidest, this one or the one about the DoD. Apple is not going to compete with Intel or shut down the DoD...jeez!

Apr 24, 08 - 11:29 am Comment from: Jubei

Well a WSJ article just quoted Jobs as being happy with INTEL. I'm beginning to think Apple will use their expertise to tweak INTEL chips for them. So that it can yield better performance and differentiate and give Apple products a huge advantage from the rest of the wannabees out there. Features that the iPhone/iPod/Touch can only do and the competition out gunned.

http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/04/24/jobs-still-hearts-intel/?mod=WSJBlog

“I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over that,” he said. “We’re very happy with Intel.”

I believe this would be a great defense for Apple if legal means can't stop the possibility of intel based Mac clones. However, this may or may not be the reason for the purchase. Just an observation on my part of current events.

Also by using Power PC based processors in Xserves and network devices, Apple can differentiate itself from Intel based systems that may be used by government agencies. Controlling an important chip used by military installations is a very good move in the sense that now Apple may have a closer relationship with them as a system provider.

This guy is full of shit.

Apple will not ever make its own processors. Ever.

They will use these guys to design co-components to differentiate their products and work with mainstream processors they have successfully now moved over to.

These asshat journalists need to go flip burgers at McDonalds, where those kinds of skills are needed.

What Jobs is reported to have said:

"Jobs said Apple acquired P.A. Semi mainly for its chip designers and suggested it will rely on P.A. Semi’s expertise primarily for portable electronics devices like the iPod and iPhone for which Intel doesn’t currently supply chips (though they would like to). Jobs says Apple has long been involved in custom designing chips for iPhones and iPods and P.A. Semi will help enhance its capacity to do so."

http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/04/24/jobs-still-hearts-intel/?mod=WSJBlog

I'll wager Jobs was POed when Apple was forced by Intel to update the CPUs (so soon) in the laptops. This is for the brains and the IP.

Agree with Spark. It may just provide the needed leverage to keep Intel on its toes.

However, if these current chips that company makes are PowerPC compatible, then OS X could easily be made to run on them. I could see a powerful PowerPC workstation MacPro that runs Universal apps (though it wouldn't be able to run doze natively, but many of us don't care). Intel won't go away from the consumer line for a very long time.

More than likely, these chips will end up in a future line of iPods and phones. If nothing else, Apple will now have a team that can design these chips if other companies aren't doing it fast enough or good enough in Jobs' eyes. Then they can always farm out the manufacturing to China like everybody else does. Who here doesn't think future Apple-inspired chips would rock?

Apple's corporate structure seems to allow software and hardware design to flourish. Why not the nuts and bolts of computers, too?

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "Made by Apple"

I can see the marketing arm of Apple taking off with the phase "Designed by Apple/Built by IBM" or "Intell like but better cause it's a Apple"

Steve never gets himself locked in to anyone for long...

This doesn't have to do with intel so much as it has to do with ARM processors.
If Apple wants to get rid of any 3rd party component providers it won't be intel its going to be ARM. Because its those processors that are in the iphone/ipod touch. If they get this PA Semi to design new stuff for them it won't be going in their macbooks or mac pros it will be going into any mobile device. Sure, that would mean Apple will not be using intel's atom chip which would dissapoint intel. But Apple is still in business with intel to provide them with chips for those same macbooks and pro machines....oh and the imac.
If there is any business that is in jeopardy it would be ARM and any agreement they have with Apple.

Apple will not kill Intel Macs, not yet.

They will wait until market share is > 50%, then switch.
Wait until OS X is widely adopted by large companies.

RIP Intel, RIP M$, RIP Clone Makers

Apr 24, 08 - 12:20 pm Comment from: ericdano

Apple is keeping it's options open. Simple. They don't want to be locked into another processor only to have it fall behind. Sure, Intel is doing good so far, but it could easily be passed up by some new company or some new development.

I think it is a great thing that Apple has the option to use either PowerPC or Intel in future computers. It is a move that Microsoft could have kept open back in the NT4 days.........

Apr 24, 08 - 12:28 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Ampar

Cheney aims for the face.

Apr 24, 08 - 12:32 pm Comment from: Ampar

"Cheney aims for the face."

True. Karl Rove is more of an ass man.

"Dick Cheney again this week was in the hospital. He was experiencing discomfort in his leg. And the doctor asked Cheney if he stretches. Cheney said, 'Are you kidding? I linked 9/11 with Saddam Hussein.'" --Bill Maher

My take. Apple is going to ditch Intel quicker than Intel forces Apple to phase out chips.

Apr 24, 08 - 01:20 pm Comment from: Demon

PA Semi has been designing and lower powered server processors and embedded processors for Network Appliances not mobile processors. Apple's was still part owner of the PPC chips designed by IBM and Motorola as the PPC Chips were a collaboration between the three companies. This moves gives them a larger stake and a branch of the PPC chip they can move forward to meet a future need.

I see the move as Apple getting involved in processors new versions or for products like the Apple TV, Airport Extreme, XServe, Time Capsule, and perhaps a specialized high-end workstation for Video and/or Audio production.

I don't see Apple jumping back to PPC processors for the Laptop and Desktops anytime soon unless Intel really fumbles and screws Apple. Apple understands that a lot of the sales momentum they have is because they are using Intel Processors and it removes the well PC are better then Macs because PC's are faster... yada.. yada.. yada.. arguments and perceptions.

Apple has a need for processors in a lot of other products other then the Desktops, Laptops, iPhones and iPods, That can benefit from PA semi chip designs without altering the processor roadmap that they are on. Apple got PA Semi for a bargain price and even putting twice the purchase price into the company for R&D;and expansion they could add to PA Semi processor roadmap to include a mobile processor but it couldn't be ready for production less then 3 years.

Apple could be looking at the long road big picture too, and to 128 bit RISC PPC processors which PA Semi has flirted with.

Apr 24, 08 - 01:53 pm Comment from: Not Bill

Yep. Roughly Drafted has it nailed.

Apr 24, 08 - 02:18 pm Comment from: Buster

@Ampar....thanks for the laugh....I am still chuckling.

Apr 24, 08 - 04:13 pm Comment from: Ampar

Buster:

Apr 24, 08 - 07:50 pm Comment from: LukeinOz

This is a load of speculative rubbish!

The move to Intel has not at all made Apple Macbooks "just Intel laptops with a different OS"

This guy must be one of those loser PowerPC fans still lamenting the "glory days" of water cooled hardware that still wasn't as quick as what Intel are now producing.

Lets face it, the truth is that Intel lost their way for some years producing substandard processors, however with a bit of competition from AMD (go a healthy non-monopoly), they pulled their collective fingers and heads out of their asses and started designing some amazing low wattage, high powered processors.

I agree with the notion that this move is to use some now Apple proprietry processors within the Mac hardware specs to block out the cloners.

There is CLEAR evidence that along with superior laptop products to what was on offer under PowerPC, the move to Intel has allowed Apple to "nurse" Windows addicts across to the Mac OS X platform with the reassurance of being able to run Windows if they need to.

my 2 cents,

Luke

@priused
your ASIC idea is exactly what I thought when I first heard this, Apple probably bought this to run some hardware like graphic cards or to pump heavy apps like photoshop--think apple laptops on steroids!!

Apr 25, 08 - 02:10 pm Comment from: Altivec Guru

LONG LIVE ALTIVEC!