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Interesting.

Even though users of the respective platforms may make the Mac vs. PC debate more dramatic than it should be, it's nice to see that Jobs and Gates seem to have a mutual respect and admiration for each other's accomplishments.

Gates is such a choad.

Bill Gates might not be "Fake Steve Jobs" but his software sure is fake Apple OS.

Why is this supposed to be interesting

These guys are geekin' out on the same stage...and seem to be having fun. Cool.

Eric, it's "chode"

what a piece of work.

My whole reason for existence is shattered if Steve doesn't hate Bill.

I'm going to have to rethink things!!!!!

Johann Gutenberg

James Watt

Thomas Edison

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are businessmen. Not leaders of religous hordes. Of course they see the world differently than the sheep that flock to these respective banners. Free you mind, quit being tools.

Twas refreshing to see Steve & Bill interact together with Walt live together on stage. Walt's probably the only guy that could have set this up. Interesting to see these computer pioneers fawning over each other. Perhaps what we all see here more accurately demonstates their own (not their respective companies') relationship.

webbyswim: fact checker first, then the insult
http://wiki.ursine.ca/Choad
other definitions
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000531http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=choad

that was weird, the MW for my previous post was research.

@ MDN Webmaster..

Sure hope you'll let us know when the video is posted

TIA

MW = "together" ... All together now .... "A-w-w-w-w !"

crap; messed up the links. it's late
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=choad

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000531

This is a classic example of opposites that make things work and drive enthusiasm and rivalries and fuel an industry or event. Reminds me of the classic tennis with Borg and MacEnroe and how their opposite personalities created excitement and drove tennis. You see the same in business, sports or even politics. Great stuff, fun to watch and be part of. This is exciting times and we should enjoy it because some day we won't have these personalities, good vs. evil, cool vs. boring, the light side vs. the dark side....... I love it, I make money off it, and it will never be this way again.

I feel so left out.

/mw: married

Choad, Chode, who the fsck cares about the spelling. The man made his point about Gates. He's right about one thing - he's not "Fake Steve Jobs" simply because you cannot mention Gates and Jobs in the same sentence. You can't even compare the two. Jobs is a genius. Gates is a copycat. Jobs is an innovator, Gates is a follower. Gates did a better job of partnering way back when - that's the only reason MS is where it is today. But things change in this sector day to day, and so is the MS empire - slowly crumbling. Today, Apple's market cap exceeded $100 billion and was added to the S&P;100. Almost double that of Dell. So in the end, Bill, you are indeed a choad, chode, choade, etc.

Interesting that Steve gave a little tip of the cap to MS for its knack for partnerships. Seems he himself took a page from MS' playbook. Witness today's fruitful partnership with Intel, and the ones that will bear fruit very soon, beginning within a few weeks, Google and AT&T;.

The way Bill was sitting, he looked like Stephen Hawking. Was Bill nervous, uncomfortable or something???

Nice work from MDN pulling in information for various sources.

Thanks.

I, for one, am happy Apple doesn't have Microsoft's knack for partnerships because Microsoft's way of partnerships is to cheat, to blackmail, to steal and to backstab their partners.

"Even though users of the respective platforms may make the Mac vs. PC debate more dramatic than it should be, it's nice to see that Jobs and Gates seem to have a mutual respect and admiration for each other's accomplishments."

Up to a point, I'm sure. But, in a situation like that, the sensible thing for one's own image is to offer fulsome praise to a fellow-guest. You look mean-spirited if you don't, and no-one smart is going to walk into that one.

I don't suppose Steve has forgotten that Gates's company did a lot of damage to Apple and NeXT (and to others like Netscape, Sun, IBM, Lotus, Novell, and a host of smaller fish). Just recently MS, having got other companies to "partner" with it in PlaysForSure devices, turned around and stabbed its "partners" in the back with the Zune. Microsoft has stuck its dirty hands in the political process in an attempt to stop various US States using an open format--Open Document--rather than its own Office formats. And for OEMs--and the public--there's the ongoing problem of the "Microsoft Tax":

"Microsoft's entire pricing, contract, and licensing structure is designed with the primary aim of preventing any other operating-system vendor from getting a foothold on the desktop. They achieve this by making the opportunity cost of pre-installing a non-Windows operating system prohibitively high for any vendor who also needs to ship Windows. ... Microsoft will literally put an OEM out of business before it lets them help a competitor. This is why big OEMs like Dell keep introducing Linux support and then pulling it again when Microsoft flexes its muscles."

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html#msoft


Gates is not a nice man and his company has not behaved well--or even legally.

"In the Microsoft monopoly trial, Apple's Avie Tevanian, Phil Schiller and Tim Schaaff all testified that Microsoft had approached them repeatedly, offering to allow Apple to keep QuickTime authoring if the company agreed to pull out of the media player market."

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/5F0C866C-6DDF-4A9A-9515-531B0CA0C29C.html

I wouldn't assume that because Jobs understands the PR value of offering big compliments to a rival in a forum like that he "respects" and "admires" Gates all that much. Even Gates, who has been silly enough to be surly, whining, and aggressive in some recent interviews, understood what was best to say at D5.

Finally, even if Jobs has forgiven everything, he personally has not been the only victim of Gates's and the company that takes its business and ethical attitudes from him. And there's no reason why the rest of us should take a sentimental attitude instead of keeping a very wary eye on MS.

You cannot mention Gates and Jobs in the same sentence.

opps ... sorry.

Stefano Jobso...

Thats a very pesemistic view you have there.

I for one think these 'rivals' do have genuine respect for each other, even though their companies act in very different ways.

And anwyay, Gates isn't evil, he's just a good business man. You don't get over 80% of the market from being an idiot and selling useless software. There was a time when windows was better than mac os remember. (Although those times were a couple decades ago).

Just my 2pence.

I got the feeling from reading a couple of Bill comments above that they were backhanded slights on Steve's achievments.
Like:
"Steve said once, "we build the products we want to use ourselves", and he's done that with incredible taste and elegance" ...meaning? They're not the products business' wanted or need, just what Steve wanted.

And <i>"And the Macintosh, that was so risky... but the team that Steve built within the company to pursue that, some days it felt a little ahead of its time..." ...meaning? All credit to the guys in the team, they did the immovative, important work. Steve just managed them...

The BIG DEAL Bill Gates made early on...

...was when IBM saw Apple's success (was threatened by loss of typewriters sales?) and wanted to get into the personal computer buisness and needed a OS. The IBM people looked around and talked to Gates, who said he could provide them with a OS.

Gates didn't have one at the time, so he bought QDOS (quick and dirty operating system) for a mere $50,000 for UNLIMITED USE.

He then turned around and charged IBM a fee FOR EACH MACHINE THE OS WAS PLACED ON !

It was the deal of the century and made Bill Gates the rich man he is.

This interview relates to the cordial relations between Apple and Microsoft as the Molotov Ribbentrop pact did the friendliness between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

My God, their tongues must be bleeding this morning from the stress.

@Dankman

Gutenburg? Ha! The Chinese and Koreans had him beat by hundreds of years.

Edison stole all his best ideas from Marconi and Tesla.

Jobs was easy going during this meeting because "revenge is a dish best served cold".

"Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are businessmen. Not leaders of religous hordes. Of course they see the world differently than the sheep that flock to these respective banners. Free you mind, quit being tools."

Gates is DEFINITELY a businessman, Steve is a man in business.

Microsoft builds business for things in business, Apple is so much more than that. Although I am really impressed with "surfaces", really what has M$ done? Made a TON and a half of money. That's what they'll be remembered for. Apple, well they make it more personal, a PC is just a computer a Mac is more than that. People develop bonds with their Mac because Apple makes computers truly personal. They feel as if it was made for them. It is almost an art, something subconsciously connects Mac users to their machines, and many times they don't realize it until you point it out.

So yes on the surface it's all boring computers sold for profit - business. But the deeper you go the further these two guys get from one another. The approach and philosophy of these two guys couldn't have a greater contrast. Gates is about control and power, Steve (although I have heard he is a prick to work for) I believe is more about freedom and empowerment. This is why I believe M$ is associated with money and Apple/Macintosh is sometimes viewed as a cult or religion. M$ tries to appeal to IT and Accounting. Apple tries to connect to people on a level more interesting than numbers.

@ Ferf Muckmeyer:

<<Choad, Chode, who the ---- cares about the spelling.>>

Those of us who prefer the intelligent and appropriate use of the language care about it...so please make sure you do it correctly.

And, no, this ISN'T English class......this is Life...where you use what you supposedly LEARNED in English class.

Sorry for the rant....off my podium now.

Dankman,

you got it!

I thought Bill was a bit nervous in his chatter. Steve seems to come back with witty remarks but watched what he said.

Gates actually came across much more grown up than usual, but the main difference between the two was still acutely obvious:

Bill Gates is a technician with an analytical mind, but with little understanding of the context technology is used in.

Steve Jobs may lack some of the technical analytical skills, but he actually understands a lot more - he has the capability of synthesis, not just analysis.

And, of course, he has taste, as Bill so openly conceded.

There is a huge diff between wood block prints & movable type.

Kinda like the diff between a computer & a TV.

with wood blocks you get the same thing over and over again. with movable type, you can make anything you want to print.

its fashionable to dis the great, but it ain't always true.

I just love watching Steve listen to Bill divulge all his "secrets" for the future while Steve basically says nothing. Steve to Bill: "Thanks Bill, that's all I need to know."

I think these guys respect each other. Steve must respect the ruthlessness of early Bill even though he may not like it.
Bill must respect the creative balls of Apple Inc. even though he believes they have no business acumen.

What is great about this interview is that these are historic leaders that were forged in the early days of silicon valley. They are radically different personalities, and each has achieved success in the spaces and in the way that seems to reflect that.

That is just ridiculous, when you think about it. Plus those Mac/PC ads reflect those two guys (perhaps even as they see themselves). They are icons. Name two other billionare CEO's that have achieved such pop notoriety.

I double dog dare ya.

Notice how MDN is the only site trolling this story? Even the other Mac news aren't posting garbage opinion.

Tells you how much of a piece of crap MDN really is and the trash that runs it.

Bill & Steve appeared together as recently as 1991, not 1984

Marconi stole more from Tesla than Edison stole from either. Edison used FUD to try to discredit Tesla's AC. Thankfully, reality is the best resistor of FUD.

The interview just goes to show that MDN is a troll site.

I agree with MDN's take 100% as it describes what I know to be true from the Apple perspective.

The reason a few posters are taking exception to MDN's Take is the same reason why Jobs and Gates acted so cordially to each other.

MDN has concisely described the real deal.

And just how many people here know the context of that "Borg and McEnroe" reference?

Here's a link, to educate you younguns out there:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/wimbledon_2003/history/2974618.stm

@MadMac

And so after you rethink things then what? You're going to switch to Windows? ...And that's where my biggest complaint is about this whole "PC" thing - Where's the real competition?! I want more than just two real choices, I want to walk into Best Buy and see Apple's running OS X, Apples running BeOS, Apples running RedHat, HP's doing all of the above and more, Dells... (well, actually I'd like to see Dell go away and come back, but...), anyway, you get the point. And if I were to go door-to-door and poll my neighbors I'd want to discover that it was a huge mix of hardware AND OSes above and beyond Windows and OS X. That's the world I want to live in.

Right now its all about toasting Windows (if your a Mac user of course), but that's only because there's really only two viable choices. In a real pluralistically competative market place it would all be much less subjective, and I really believe that the technology we have today would be significantly more advanced AND reliable - 'Cause that's what real competition does, and that's what the pc using world really needs.

MW: "Why" - As in, why ask why? Because eventually someone will hazard a guess, and it will probably be wrong, and that fact will inspire someone else to try and figure out what the right answer is, this then becomes a repeating cycle which in turn sets up a cycle of progression that accelerates over time. In capitalizm that = competition, and to the consumer that equals more for your money.

Wait...the Borg play tennis? How is their backhand with all that heavy tech armor and hoses coming out of their body? And is only one of them on the court, or do they stand around in droves?

McEnroe must have beat them by changing the frequency of his serve every time.

Why does Bill need to show up with his shirt untucked...Steve could use a change of clothes every so often, but at least he doesn't look like he just woke up from a nap.

As MDN noted before its video link: "How different people can interpret the same event so differently never fails to amaze or to show one's true colors."
So if MDN or the reader/viewer hates MS with a white-hot passion, that's how he or she views the discussion and body language between Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Same thing if the reader/viewer hates Apple.
Not looking at it from such a polarized position, I saw two tech titans and intense rivals who respect each other's abilities, albeit grudgingly at times.
Steve Jobs clearly reveled in the Mac/PC ad discussion, and his quip: "We’ve kept our marriage secret for over a decade now" actually left Bill Gates speechless.
Gates enjoyed pointing out. "Steve is so known for his restraint." But during the discussion, he also said quite sincerely, "I admire Steve’s taste. And that’s not a joke."
To me, I think the last statement Steve Jobs made summed things up very well:
"When Bill and I first entered the industry, we were the youngest guys in the room, and now we’re the oldest. I tend to think of things in terms of either Dylan or Beatles songs. And there’s that one line in that Beatles song, “You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead,” and I think that’s clearly true here.”
The WSJ folks working D5 aren't clueless or polarized one way or the other, and here's their take posted immediately after Job's comment -- [That may come across as cheesy here in print, but honestly it wasn’t. When we post the video, you’ll likely find it pretty touching.]
I've watched the video. And Steve Jobs' face at that moment. They're right.

The Richest Man in the World can do WTF he likes to do.

Get a job, maybe things will change for you too.

I watched the video. It was a love in for Steve's acumen and Bill's money. Bill had every right to be pissed off. They both played nice but you could see there were a lot of unresolved issues between the two of them.

Personally, I'd rather have Steve's abilities than Bill's luck.

Fade-in
PC is sweating up a storm...
Mac walks on (right ) asks: "Hi PC, why are you sweating up a strom?"
PC - "Well, I am running V.I.S.T.A. and that really makes me sweat."
Mac - "Ah, right"
PC - "In fact, sometimes if feels like a little like hell in here."
Mac - "Care for a glass of ice water?" (Holds box with iTunes in face)
Fade to cool....

(Watch the SJ individual interview to get the reason for this PC/Mac ad)

Jobs is so far ahead of Gates... light years...

Gates needs to figure out a way to fully repay all the peopel he has "partnered" in the past. He must owe them in dignity alone billions.

Ah, well .. PR is still PR... smiling out your ar$e still stinks.