MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jan 06, 09 - 02:11 pm Comment from: Tommy Boy

Yep. I'm disappointed that I'm going to buy an old iMac today.

A battery that lasts almost twice as long is better than hauling a second battery around.

I'm sure it can be changed out - by Apple.

But, where the FSCK is the new Mac Pro and Mac Mini?

Can anyone say anti-glare display option ??? It cost $50 but its an option

@Gary
"But, where the FSCK is the new Mac Pro and Mac Mini?"

They weren't announced Gary, I thought that was fairly obvious.

I want that amazing battery in my 13" Macbook. I mean, 98% of users never swap out batteries. I bought a replacement battery once for my TiPB, but that's it.

But I thought Steve said nobody wanted anti-glare display, and that glossy was if going forward.

The Processor option if unforgivable at this point, where is the quad core?

Jan 06, 09 - 02:25 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Swapping out batteries is only good if 1 your internal battery is weak, or 2 you have heavy usage that cannot be accomodated by any internal battery.

For 1, the internal integrated battery has advantages in that it can more efficiently use available space and not waste space for the rarely used option of replacing the battery.

For 2, you're out of luck other than having a better internal battery to start out with. Other Than lugging around a bulky external power source of scamming for a wall outlet.

Being portable means making compromises, for most people the advantages of the integrated but more powerful battery will far outweigh the disadvantages. I've never been a fan of replaceable batteries on portable gear, I've always felt that integrated batteries were superior and am glad that Apple is leading the way with them.

2 years and 2 months on my 2.33 17" mbp, never taken out battery, 89% health remaining

Even if we only get 5 to 6 hours of real world use out of the new battery, its still 2 times better than what we get now. Making the battery larger instead of removable makes a lot of sense to me.

I wish they do this for all macbooks.

You know good and well that the battery won't last for 8 hours under real world conditions. It's 8 hours with integrated graphics, WiFi off, screen brightness at the lowest level and all that other bullshit.

They said the MacBook Air battery would last 5 hours and look how accurate that turned out to be.

gobsmackingly disappointing keynote. the latest macbooks dont have this new tech battery ? that was a kick in the nuts

Jan 06, 09 - 02:27 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

"But, where the FSCK is the new Mac Pro and Mac Mini?"

I'd expect an update posted when they are ready with a press release. The mini might have been demoed if it was ready but really with the new iLife and iWork and new 17" there was plenty of stuff to demo without including either of those 2 items.

As I suspected, the real reason why Steve didn't present this, the last keynote, is not because of health or wanting to spend time with family over the holidays. He wanted to protect his legacy and image by preserving the last image of him presenting the iPhone, for the second time (3G), after the first gen was so wildly popular. He quit when he was on top. Today's subpar offerings would have tainted that perception that while he presented, Apple, and Steve, was king.

Jan 06, 09 - 02:29 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

@mac

You're sourpuss reaction is just one more reason we won't ever see any more Macworld keynotes.

Thanks for nothin' pal, now go crawl back under your rock and don't come back out again, you troglodyte.

Jan 06, 09 - 02:31 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

And that goes for you too, Maconymous..

sheesh, buncha crybabies.

It was a fine demo, with solid products many of which will be getting my money, at least the new iLife and iWork if not the 17"

I thought todays offerings were great. I mean, they just came out with all kinds of good stuff in October. Everyday can't be Christmas. I just hope I don't have to listen to people drone on and on about the evils of non-replaceable batteries and how the 17" Macbook pro will be a dismal failure because of it, just like the iPod, iPhone, and Macbook air were. Oh, wait a minute...

Jan 06, 09 - 02:37 pm Comment from: MikeK

Never in Apples history have they announced 3 brand new lines of hardware products in one day..

The very reason they wont be participating in Macworld anymore is because the expectations have become so high, it's unrealistic..

They will now announce new products on their own timeframe..

We got brand new iPods in September, brand new MacBooks in October, brand new 17" MacBook pro today..

Brand new Mini's and Mac Pro's are likely just around the corner in Feb or March.. New iPhones will likely follow a few months later in June..

Get it? New products every couple of months.. Staggered releases throughout the year..

@ Twilightmoon

There's nothing wrong with pointing out the facts. I know well that Apple cannot pull a rabbit out of its hat every three months. I'm just not buying the BS we're fed by Apple's PR department on this specific issue (Steve's absence from the last show that HE made as popular as ever).

Some of you people really are are lemmings or paid by apple. This is NOT better for the environment. 8 hours probably means no more than 6. 1000 charges means no more than 700. Apple is just encouraging a throw away culture. A laptop should have a useful life of a good 3-6 years. Sure high end users replace it in 1-2 years and it will be fine, but what about passing in on to someone who does not need cutting edge? Should they just buy macbooks? (certainly soon to follow the same model no doubt) Just "recycle" it? Newsflash, manufacturing and recycling all use carbon, lots of it, ESPECIALLY ALUMINUM. The more stuff you buy the more carbon you piss into the air. Apple is supporting our vulgar lifestyle.

Jan 06, 09 - 02:42 pm Comment from: Derek in Milan

@ twilightmoon - thank-you, couldn't have put it better myself.

Great new Macbook, iTunes , iPhone announcements, iPhoto, etc.

What do you guys want? A new computer design every three weeks.

Get the f**k over yourselves, already.

And lets leave Steve Jobs alone for a few months, OK?

I am a bit confused. How much more room does a battery take up if its a removable one? I mean, can't ya just use the same size battery that is built in, but just have it like the other old one, removable! Again, not a big computer tech guy, just thought it might be better than paying Apple to replace my battery. 1,000 charges. I want to see some real world test on that statement. I have gone thru two powerbook G4 batteries in four years!

And yea, I know, its a powerbook G4! Gesh, some of use are on a budget!

Jan 06, 09 - 02:47 pm Comment from: Derek in Milan

@ James:

They said that the battery will be good for FIVE, yes, 5, years. OK?

And to announce unilaterally that 1000 means 700 and 8 means 6 means you are somehow privy to mathematical knowledge that the rest of us simply dont have.

Battery life is all about management - good management = good battery life. The opposite is also true.

Gah! Some negative people on this page today.....

Jan 06, 09 - 02:47 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

"There's nothing wrong with pointing out the facts."

There's facts and then there's facts.

Look, your opinion is just fine. It's just that it happens EVERY year after a Keynote people whine and bellyache about every little nit picky detail, I've been guilty of it myself with the lack of FireWire on the new Macbooks as an example.

I won't put this MW Keynote up there with the iPhone one, but it was hardly a dud, there was solid demos of stuff I'm actually going to buy. iLife and iWork are becoming significant points to help Apple sell computer hardware and are showing that they haven't stopped working on improving the Mac beyond just the Mac OS and the hardware.

The innovations in the 17" battery will trickle down across their laptop line and make all their portables better.

Phil isn't as flashy as Steve Jobs, but he got the job done from what I can tell, still waiting to be able to download the video from iTunes.

I think this shows why this will be the last macworld for apple .

1) As Phil said , they get the same traffic as 100 macworlds every week to their stores . It's not worth the cost to them, and believe me , it ain't cheap .

2) Macworld hype has gotten a bit out of hand IMO . People have become so hard to please . There was a time when we were WOW'd by the iPhone . . . it's just part of life now .

3) Getting 3 products ready to ship at one time is hard , let alone 5 as some here would demand . . . I mean really, the updates are coming , it can't all be ready now , and apple can't always afford to wait for a macworld release . iWork and iLife make sense , it's a yearly thing at this point . The fact that the new 17 was ready at the same time is icing . Now that apple doesn't have to launch everything at a macworld , it can launch stuff when ready .

Jan 06, 09 - 02:50 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

@ James

Just because someone laid a turd in your Cheerios this morning does not mean you had to eat it, and then spew it back out at us.

@twighlightmoon
"Thanks for nothin' pal, now go crawl back under your rock and don't come back out again, you troglodyte."

Troglodyte for feeling disappointed with a keynote ?
Crawl back under a rock for having an opinion on the lack of new battery tech in the latest macbooks ?

you, sunny jim, need to get some perspective.

The best is indeed yet to come.

There's unfinished business to discuss, like the iMac, Mini, Snow Leopard, iPhone, etc. I'm quite confident Apple knew exactly how this Macworld would go down with everyone. And it was all carefully planned, and very deliberate.

I think that now, more than ever, the suspense is truly where Apple wants it to be, and where the competition hopes it wouldn't be. Already we have a killer 17-inch monster notebook and beautifully updated software. And this isn't even the REAL keynote. Which will be done by Jobs, since he wasn't well enough to do this one. Which also goes some way to explaining why they gave all the so-called "filler" to Schiller, and partly why the Macworld became a place-holder for something else. Something much bigger.

Just listen to good old Tony B. Now is the time to really fear Apple.

Jan 06, 09 - 02:53 pm Comment from: Derek in Milan

@ James again:

WHY is this a 'throw-away' culture?
Laptops have batteries. All batteries are consumable items.
The best we can do is make them long-lasting and re-cycleable.
Apple have done this. Big time.

@ Steven P:

This was surely explained today?
By not having to conform to a particular shape, Apple can make the battery fit in the inevitable nooks and crannies inside a Macbook.

If there is no need for latches and plastic or aluminum surrounds and a bay for the battery to go in, savings of space must be in the order of 10-20%, at a guess.

A battery that lasts 5 years and is then replaced is BETTER than your two year battery life, isnt it?

HEY everyone - ever considering THINKING?

Its the great new way to get the answers to life's little problems.

Try it today - you wont be disappointed.

Jan 06, 09 - 02:59 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

"you, sunny jim, need to get some perspective."

Fair enough, but I've had it up to my eyeballs in people crying after a keynote after a dozen years of it. At least it's over now thankfully.

I'm not saying having those new batteries across the line of laptops wouldn't be nice, but that sort of thing takes time, have some patience (especially since you're asking me to have some perspective!)

@Steven P:

Heres a video that will help explain:

http://i.gizmodo.com/5124705/the-story-behind-the-17-macbook-pros-amazing-long+lasting-battery

Jan 06, 09 - 03:10 pm Comment from: jtc

@R2

new built-in battery that delivers "UP TO" eight hours of use

To me it seems essential that the recent 13" Macbooks also
come with a non glass $50 option going foward into 09'!
(not just the 17" overly large Pro announed today)

if u compare it to a the higher end 13" sony (sure it is a pc look at the the display quality) this unit has a unique matt anti glare coating (not GLASS) what was/IS Mac thinking.

It simply gets in the way if your viewing experience !
Images/text seems RECESSED within the glass screen and unlike the IMac glass it is real full og GLARE !

Jan 06, 09 - 03:12 pm Comment from: DRM sucks

"The very reason they wont be participating in Macworld anymore is because the expectations have become so high, it's unrealistic.. " etc etc

1. Apple is not afraid of expectations. Do you really think Apple was like, "OMG! Too many expectations! Let's not do the keynote!!"?
2. Fans saying they hoped to see something is not whining or bellyaching, it is simply enthusiastic demand for a product. The enthusiasm of Apple users is a result of Apple's excellence and an important component of Apple's success.

The mentality of protecting the mother ship is something best left for Microsoft fanboys. Trying to stifle the voice of Apple fans, whether they be positive or negative, is silly. Plenty of people were able to point out why, for example, we should not have expected three new pieces of hardware today. Great, keep it at that.

The best keynote news related to the integrated battery in the 17 inch MacBook Pro is that Apple has had people working on lithium polymer battery construction issues. This means that they can teach their subcontractors how to make decent batteries instead of relying on the crappy Sony-contract batteries that have given so many MacBook & MacBook Pro owners headaches for the last four years. Let's hope in particular that the integrated batteries will solve the overheating and in-computer charging problems!

Go back to full 'Matt ' Mac laptops or sony will be the superior company again. No reason for this with such a massively superior design from Mac !

Also not offering BluRay on these laptops 08-09 Macs seems a mistake. While it is known that full res on high def needs larger screens, people are now going to own these discs and not be able to play them.

If i am somewhere and want to watch david gilmores on an island
bluray I might as well not even own one of these Macs!

MATT option beyond the 17" Pro & a BluRay option regardless of price.

Jan 06, 09 - 03:19 pm Comment from: MacRaven

OK, someone clarify. Maybe my headcold is making me a bit dense today but, how IS the battery replaced in this new 17" MBP? You have to take it to an Apple Store? They can't mean it isn't replaceable at all. Did I miss something?

Jan 06, 09 - 03:25 pm Comment from: Brau

Anti-glare is NOT the same thing as a matte display as it does not employ the Fresnel lens technology that allows true wide-angle reflection-less viewing. Apple just killed off their last truly Pro product. For this reason alone Apple laptops and displays will be off my shopping list.

@James
You seem to think that the whole MacBook needs to be thrown out when the battery gets old. The battery can be replaced. It's just no longer a simple process.

@ R2

You are talking nonsense. The Air battery is rated for five hours and everyone I read about who tested it got roughly four hours. The only guy who habitually gets way less on his tests than anyone else is Walt Mosberg who says up front that he turns the brightness up *higher* than recommended for his tests.

If Apple says it will get 8 hours, then it will probably get 7 but seven is huge. Also I have to point out that criticisms like this make no sense whatsoever anyway. If the tech is the same, or if everyone is "fudging" the numbers the same, then the percentages of extra time and power are just as valid because the same claims were made about the old batteries, right?

Finally, regular PC manufacturers regularly lie through their teeth about battery life. Much worse than Apple. Generally speaking if Samsung says 4 hours, the battery will last two and if Apple say s4 hours the battery will last 3 in my experience.

Jan 06, 09 - 03:36 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

"Anti-glare is NOT the same thing as a matte display as it does not employ the Fresnel lens technology that allows true wide-angle reflection-less viewing. Apple just killed off their last truly Pro product. For this reason alone Apple laptops and displays will be off my shopping list."

Umm... I'm not sure I followed exactly how this matters, but congratulations on winning the KING OF WHINERS™ award!

Jan 06, 09 - 03:37 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Previously held by Cmdr Taco:

"No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

Well, I'm just glad I bought my 17" MBP a year ago instead of waiting another year. The non-replaceable battery would have been an absolute deal killer for me... as I'm certain it is today for a lot of others, particularly those of the power-user, road-warrior variety.

As for those parroting Apple's claims of "up to 8 hours" and "1000 charges," let's just wait and see. Real world activity tends to poke holes in marketing claims.

Jan 06, 09 - 03:42 pm Comment from: Jubei

MBP 17" now more greener than before. What say you DELL?

If I use my new macbook 8 hours a day and recharge it, then the macbook is dead (via the battery) in 1,000 days. Less than 3 years.

Planned obsolescence.

Jan 06, 09 - 04:04 pm Comment from: ElderNorm

@ James,

"Newsflash, manufacturing and recycling all use carbon, lots of it, ESPECIALLY ALUMINUM. " Are you that stupid or that young???

The cost to "RECYCLE" aluminum is much lower than making it in the first place from tons of Boxite ore (sp). Aluminum can be used over and over and over again.

And we are not "Some of you people really are are lemmings or paid by apple.", unlike you who is obviously paid for by Microsoft. :-( Its called industrial standards vs how long batteries last, etc. Google it.

Just a thoughts.

en

I'm sure the battery will fully charge 1000 times and at 1001 times, it'll be completely dead

Apple should stop mentioning how many charges a battery can be fully charged cause people are too stupid to understand what that actually means.

You're not thinking about this right. I'm a "road warrior" and I see this as a positive. We no longer have to lug around a second battery and mess with recharging each one while on the road. Now, one longer-life battery is all you need. Even if the real duration is 7 or 6.5 hours instead of 8, that's still pretty close to the "real" duration of two shorter-life batteries, without the weight!
Jake

Jan 06, 09 - 04:25 pm Comment from: MacintoshSoftwareList.com

High price, nothing exciting.

Jan 06, 09 - 04:34 pm Comment from: Islandgirl

Re: I'm sure the battery will fully charge 1000 times and at 1001 times, it'll be completely dead raspberry

I thought I read the battery would still have an 80% charge left after 1,000 charging cycles.

On another point, is it some time-honored tradition that every MacWorld keynote is followed by loud wails and angry screeching from Mac users as well as the regular Apple haters? Some of the comments on this blog reflect that trend, and the comments sections of Engadget, Gizmodo and others are full of it.

I suspect only a tiny fraction of notebook buyers actually swap out their batteries. No one I know does that. Lots of people are using laptops as desktops now, so they're on AC power nearly all the time.

And since the MacBook Air's battery is built in, too, perhaps this new battery tech will make its way into that model soon.

Not sure about this upgrade to the 17". I'm surprised it made the keynote when they'd already had a laptop announcement late last year. Guess they were really trying to rub in the fact that they won't be at Macworld anymore. No RDF for me, that's for sure.

I already have the 17" from two years ago (2.33Ghz model), so I wouldn't upgrade yet, but I'm going to humor myself.

For the new models:
- there is 1 Firewire port less (and no additional USB ports to compensate.)
- still only 2.66Ghz.
- ability for lots of RAM.
- nicer looking I think, probably sturdier and the paint won't peel I hope.
- better graphics (although it seems a pain to manage it.)
- HD resolution screen
- still only 5400 RPM drives as standard issue (vs 7200.)

Yes, it'll be faster just how much will require benchmarks. You'd expect it to be a lot faster after 2 years (like either ~2x faster, or cost 1/2 as much, and since it doesn't cost 1/2 as much...) I'd have liked a quad core CPU to compensate, but whatever.

I'd definitely spring for the 7200 RPM drive - the existing drive in my current lappy is really slow (then again, maybe that's 'coz I compare it to my Mac Pro running on raptors.) Plus it's a bitch to swap out (which is why it's still in there... for now.) But $50 seems steep.

I'd also consider the anti-glare (have to see it first), and a DVI adaptor.

This brings the price up another $129 if I got all of them. This is now a $3K laptop, plus tax. Nice going, especially considering some of the options shouldn't really cost any more.

I am not wanting to get into the politics of "Yes, but it costs Apple more", which is true, but honestly, at $2799, you should expect a certain level of refinement and inclusions, esp. wrt to the HDD. It's especially contradictory when they make everything else faster/better. Plus, the anti-glare was a free option before anyway. And the DVI is a port? Well, ports change, so you'd probably have to suck that up, but I'd love (hate?) to know the real cost of that $29 DVI adapter (or $99 for the dual-link one. That sounds like gouging to me. Seems as though it's a "If you can afford the 30" screen, you can afford this nice adapter" type mentality.)

This sort of pricing makes people whining over $2 apps on the App Store seem like tightwads (oh, that's right, they are.)

While I don't see the value right now, my wife has had her eye on a macbook of some sort since the last lot was released...

Wonder what I can get for my early '08 17" MacBook Pro
to narrow the gap to $4,599.00 .

8 Gigs of RAM?!!!
YEEESSSS!!!!!



MDN word "terms", as in the terms of my contract with the devil in order to trade up my MBP after less than a year.

ALL batteries have a life span at which point they quit holding a decent charge. This new battery method is no different and is no more "planned obsolescence" than any other battery operated device. In the world of consumer electronics MOST rechargeable devices do NOT have replaceable batteries. I don't blame people for being wary of this new method, but if the performance claims are accurate AND if Apple provides an efficient replacement program, then I think you will see a new trend in portable PCs.