Apple delays Mac OS X Leopard until October 2007, blames iPhone

370 Comments

Apple StoreApple today released the following statement:

iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned. We can’t wait until customers get their hands (and fingers) on it and experience what a revolutionary and magical product it is. However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price — we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned.

While Leopard’s features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October. We think it will be well worth the wait. Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we’re sure we’ve made the right ones.

Sources: PRNewswire, Apple Hot News
Ouch.

Still, better fully-baked in October, than undercooked in June.

Good thing Mac OS X Tiger is already the world’s most advanced operating system.

(Note: Big party scheduled for the weekly Dvorak-Enderle-Thurrott-Kantor coffee klatch! Stay tuned for ridiculous articles trying to equate Apple’s 4-month delay to Microsoft’s over 4-year long Windows Longhorn/Vista/PigLipstick debacle.)

Related articles:
Ihnatko: Hands-on with Apple’s iPhone (which runs Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard) – January 18, 2007

Latest Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard build still accompanied by lengthy bug list – April 12, 2007
RUMOR: Apple to release Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard in June – April 02, 2007
Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard to feature ZFS? – March 29, 2007
Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard’s top secret ingredient: 3D everywhere, including new 3D Finder? – March 27, 2007
Apple to delay Leopard? Digitimes.com’s poor Apple rumor accuracy – March 23, 2007
Apple to postpone Mac OS X Leopard until October in order to support Windows Vista? – March 23, 2007
RUMOR: Some Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard ‘top secret’ features leak out – January 26, 2007
RUMOR: Apple Mac OS X Leopard to replace ‘Aqua’ with ‘Illuminous’ – December 11, 2006
Apple confirms ‘resolution independence’ and more coming in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard – October 23, 2006

370 Comments

  12. I, for one, am glad that they are doing the right thing…

    However, will this ruin any chance of getting a major number of switchers from Windows? It may just be too much time for people to wait… they will just “get Vista instead”.

    Reply

  15. Saw it coming all along. Even the very latest Leopard client release. What seems to be problematic at this point is keeping it universal, as in backwards compatible.

    Then, when it finally comes out, some people will say- “all that wait for this?”

    You watch.

    Reply

  17. This will definitely affect revenue forecasts from Wall Street. The stock will take a hit.

    Long term, Apple is making the right choice. Leopard NEEDS to be a near perfect, revolutionary release or Apple will jeopardize the built-up momentum and good will.

    I just hope they plan to get people excited about the hardware again by updating the current line of Macs. October is a long time to wait for new hardware.

    Reply

  19. Wise decision. Why split the spotlight among two very, very major products from your company? More is riding on the successful launch of the iPhone than Leopard. Doesn’t make sense to have two compelling products competing for attention at the same time.

    Reply

  20. So, on the one hand soooooooooo many people posting to this site castigated and chastized and utterly lambasted Adobe for “being late” with CS3. They said that new MacPro sales would finally accelerate and pick up once CS3 shipped because it would get here AFTER Leopard.

    Well, lawwwwwwwdy, Miss Kitty! Now it’s APPLE who’s LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My oh my oh myyyyyyy . . . the shoe’s on the other foot now.

    I wonder what Chizen is doing right about now? Hmmmmm . . . let’s see . . . I’d say he’s most likely . . .

    LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply

  22. This is the best thing that Apple could have done in order to ship a quality product. If it was not delayed, Leopard would be compared to Vista’s problems — making Apple synonymous with Microslacker. Definitely not a good comparison.

    I applaud making the hard decision.

    Reply

  27. This sucks.

    I don’t need no ‘stinkin iPhone – what I need is a big, powerful Mac than can run PS3 and my 44 inch-wide printers.

    I am reminded that this is NO LONGER Apple computer – it’s an entertainment company.

    We need balance between gadgets and real computers here. And, October is tooooo late.

    Reply

  32. Look. I’m looking forward to 10.5 ocelot or whatever its called… But let me tell you, ill take stablen functional, and working.

    Why? I installed Vista for compat testing, and its so bad, its hard to fathom.

    If apple was to release something as bad, it wouldn’t do apple – or you or me – a damn bit of good.

    10.4.9 is rock-hard stable and 10.5 will be here in October…. Apple could be in a way worse position.

    Reply

  33. How about the links to MDN’s poo-pooing of suggestions that Lepoard wouldn’t be happening spring at all. i am sure there were a few!!

    Oh the endless debate of when spring is, was, or will be. FYI fall runs from Sept 21 to Dec 21 approx.

    Reply

  36. Two and a half years…it must now have “must have” revolutionary features in order to get my purchase.
    I also will HAVE to have a peek at the secret features in June for them to get my money in October. I am disappointed, to say little, as the time it has taken compared to previous releases is way to long. I am hoping for the iPhones success, but should its success affect and determine my operating system? Absolutely not!
    The computer hardware should come first and the OS second, and consumer electronics third. Depressing!

    Reply

  38. Listen, as long as Apple isn’t FOUR years late with a bloated, non-working OS, I’m not complaining. Tiger still serves me quite well. I’ll wait.

    MW: Rest, as in: Rest assured, Leopard will be here and it will once again leave MS in the dust (not that Tiger doesn’t already).

    Reply

  45. So much for iLife 07′. Might as well make it 2008.

    If true, that was a really Microsoft thing to do. Lots of crow to be eaten by those who blasted MS for being late. Don’t care about a phone, do care about computers.

    Reply

  46. I am sick of IT companies delaying operating systems!!!!!!!! I guess Apple is no different from microsoft. I think i will give Microsoft Vista a chance after all, they may be evil, but at least thier operating system is on the market and current. I HATE THE IPHONE!!!!!!!!! Only an fool would buy it. Thank You Apple for Making my day worse!!!!!!!

    Reply

  49. Here come the mac heads making excuses for Aplle. . .
    I can hear them now: ” at least it’s not 4 years”
    “at least they didn’t cut anything” (at least that you know of)
    “at least

    Reply

  57. NO NO NO I’m so pissed. I just yelled so loud and then moaned and almost cried. I know it’s dramatic but FSCK! Apple really fscked up here. I am probably one of the biggest Apple apologists there is but I cannot forgive for this… I hate missed deadlines. Just spend more money and get it done! UGH I’m going to go cry myself to sleep now.

    Reply

  58. This statement is on Apple’s web site under “Hot News” … so look like its true…

    Damn, what have those Fuzzy-headed Hoe’s been up to!

    Maybe the Fuzzy headed Hoe’s are putting Leopard on a diet first… cuz you know how those white-bread hoe’s in Cupertino obsesses about their weight!

    Reply

  63. You know you’re a geek when:

    a. This matters so much
    b. This announcement makes you feel as if someone has died
    c. You now think iPhone is the bratty sibling that gets all the attention and needs to be hurt and punished because mom and dad always liked her best and she never appreciated it, just sitting there all pretty all the time, all shiny and…
    d. Peterson had a problem
    e. all of the above

    Reply

  64. I recall having some serious problems with Tiger when it was first released (kernel panics, incompatibility with third party corporate mandated VPN apps, etc.). After a couple of iterations by Apple and third party software providers, every thing is smooth sailing again. So I would rather Apple take their time and do things right rather than rush things.

    Reply

  73. Come on, what the hell is the big deal about Leopard?

    Tiger just ROCKS the socks off of Vista. Wouldn’t you rather wait until October for something amazing instead of something broken in June?

    Apple’s resources are finite – they made a call and did it. Personally (and as a stockholder), I think they made the right decision. The iPhone is going to be the killer product.

    MM

    Reply

  83. Attention to the iPhone will cost Apple millions of dollars worth of free media attention, and miss far too many switchers while Vista is down…

    This is great news for Microsoft, who now has time to force users out of XP and into Vista…

    This may also miss lots of switchers due to the cost of upgrading to Vista.

    On the bright side Apple has the chance to upgrade the hardware expand the laptop line and other items – they better or the old “strike while the iron is hot” because Microsoft put out such a lame problem filled product will be lost…

    I see the logic, iPhone like the iPod is a market winner for Apple, it is just sad to know that the “computer” section of Apple is and will continue to languish under the weight of the better selling “trinket” part of the market.

    Apple with the announcement just confirmed that the computer section of the company has been regulated to “red headed stepchild” by admitting that they were willing to pull people off OSX at the hottest part of the market opportunity for the iPhone.

    What is a graphics professional to think? First Adobe slaps us like cheep whores and now Apple – over the “iPimping” cool iPhone…

    Reply

  84. I’m all for Apple releasing a strong stable OS, so if they need to delay it, so be it. What bothers me is when other non proven Apple products affect it’s core technology in a negative way. I dislike the fact that it seems like Mac OS X has taken a back seat to iPods and the iPhone. Apple doesn’t even show OS X in it’s Mac commercials, which I feel is freaking LAME. Every-time I show a Windows user OS X, they are blown away. The main reason I use the Mac and other Apple products is the Mac OS.

    I’m sure all Mac users want a good stable OS release, I just hope Apple doesn’t continue down this path of ignoring it’s core products like OS X and the Mac.

    Tip for Apple: SHOW OS X IN YOUR ADVERTISING.

    Reply

  85. While I’m no DigiTimes follower, nor does its reasoning regarding Vista compatibility makes no sense, one can argue they got the end result correct. This stunning news is not surprising considering recent news that Boot Camp will end its beta testing (voila) at the end of September. Still, I cannot help but be disappointed. Like many of you, I’d rather have a stable OS. Apple, at least when compared with M$, does deserve kudos for being upfront and honest with consumers, rather than taking M$’ approach by duping the public with Vista upgrade coupons and upsetting early adopters with a half-baked OS. Brace yourselves because M$ apologists like Enderle and Thurott will seize yet another opportunity to bash Apple. Let’s hope we are truly “wowed” with OS X team’s iPhone contributions and its interoperability with Tiger.

    Reply

  87. @EdV: I decided a couple of weeks ago that I couldn’t wait, and bought a MacBook Pro AND a Mac Pro. Couldn’t be happier with 10.4.9 (except for the flaky wireless mouse/keyboard – ugh!), and I’ll just buy the family pack of 10.5 in August. I love finally being all-Mac at home.

    Reply

  88. Disappointment because I really need the new version of iweb which won’t ship until 10.5 ships.

    Oh well, at least my MBP is finally working as it should. It only took 2 trips to Apple for them to get it right. They wanted to blame my Crucial ram but I finally convinced them to change out the logic board a second time and now everything is working perfect! It even goes in and out of sleep mode without a hiccup! I can now say that I love my MBP.

    Reply

  91. Funny. I didn’t see MacDailynews give software vendors the “Still, better fully-baked in October, than undercooked in June” treatment when Apple blind-sided them with a quick Intel transition. It was “WHERE’S YOUR SOFTWARE YOU BOZOS”.

    Still….what can you expect from propagandists.

    Reply

  96. Gee…what a surprise!

    Of course, it’s Apple, so it’s okay. When Microsoft was delaying Vista the voice of this site had to make reams and reams of negative content. But, because this is Apple, it’s okay: rather have it late than half-baked…indeed.

    As a loyal Apple customer I resent not getting any new product whatsoever for over a year, at least that is related to the Macintosh computers and OS X.

    I went to MacWorld with $$$ to spend on products and upgrades; but Apple missed the boat. So I’ve spent the $$$ on other things, not Apple products.

    People have come to depend on Apple for timely, cyclical releases of new products, updated products, and upgraded software. By changing this successful formula, Apple has become the same as everybody else in the industry.

    Shame on you, Apple!

    Reply

  100. i agree with R above.

    some of the behavior i’ve seen in here makes those people who call apple fans zealous fanboys a little more credible.

    sure, it’s a disappointment that leopard got delayed, but come ON guys, it’s an OS release – and it’s NOT like it’s fscking Mac OS XI.

    i like new apple products as much as the next guy, but tiger is a great OS. i see no problem with sticking to tiger for another six months.

    deep breath, kids! it’s gonna be all right!

    the MW MDN obviously implanted to relate to this story is “hell” =)

    Reply

  104. You all are acting as if Apple said they weren’t shipping the new OS for another 4 years a la Microsoft. It’s only 4 months. It may delay the hard core Apple buyer, but for a casual user, they’re just going to want a computer that works. And for those of you who are laughing at Apple, you’re not one to talk. 48 months late for a slow, insecure, bug-ridden EXPENSIVE upgrade versus 4 months late for true elegant innovation. Keep it in perspective, this will be a blip in Apple’s past especially once the iPhone ships. All will be forgiven.

    MW: “sense” as in please use some.

    Reply

  107. Only a loser is crying over this and now looking at getting a PC. I have to ask you then, WTF were you doing during those 4 YEARS while Longhorn and Vista were delayed over and over and over again? My God, get a life you idiots.

    Reply

  108. All you Apple-hater, Microsoft fan boys out there should realize that Tiger is STILL absolutely bullet proof and still years ahead of Vista. Vista will STILL sell more Macs over the next two years than anything Apple could have done. Realize that if you buy Vista you’ll be saddled with a DOS based, fundamentally insecure, non-network compliant piece of crap for at least the next 5 years. You’ll be using a non-unix OS that PURPOSELY degrades the quality of every video or sound file it processes. You’ll be a victim of Microsoft’s proprietary DRM that decides on its own what you’ll be allowed to run or play, and whether you’re a thief or not.

    The rise of Apple, and the fall of Microsoft are already locked in. Leopard will be the coup-de-gras when it arrives. Meantime, I suggest that Apple include a certificate for an upgrade to Leopard, perhaps free or at a reduced cost, packed along with every Mac sold between now and the release of Leopard.

    The truth is that after seeing the disaster that is Vista, there’s no need to release Leopard for Apple to remain the vendor of the world’s most advanced and secure OS.

    Reply

  110. I am an Apple fanatic to the core and can’t wait to get my hands on Leopard, but you can color me very happy about this announcment.

    I am going to buy an iPhone in June and my bank account is thrilled:

    – iPhone $500
    – Leopard $129
    – iLife $79
    – new “video” iPod (this fall I’m sure)$249 -$349
    – iPhone accessories $???

    All this in one month is a lot to handle, but spread out over the fall… priceless.

    Reply

  113. Computers now get the back seat at Apple.
    $10 billion in the bank and they can´t hire more people????

    Gadgets and doo-hickeys come first at Apple.
    Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad news.

    (And I like the “late” June cop out for the iPhone. Yeah, its gonna come out late.)

    Reply

  114. o m f g. I have waited sooo long to buy a mac, waiting for the latest os. Wtf? Do i have to wait for ilife 07 in october, 3 months before 08? What the f*ck.

    I am stuck here, on this shitty pc, while i wait. BS.

    WTF are they going to do on April 15th!?

    …

    …

    Reply

  116. Nine woman cannot make a baby in a month.

    CrissyOne proven hot once again, slinging wisdom and jibes.

    Still, babies take nine months, sometimes shorter, but rarely longer. This OS might get so big it won’t make it safely out of the birth canal.

    Still, I guess if they’ve got such a great OS already going in Tiger and money in the bank and obviously revolutionary ideas, I suppose I’ll have to trust. They’ve not burned me before…

    and yet, I’m wary. They’d better not burn us this time. If Leopard comes out and it’s a warmed-over Tiger I’m going to be seriously dismayed.

    Reply

  117. so sad…this was going to be my first Mac purchase and I need the new computer by August when school starts up again…I can’t deal with Vista…afraid to purchase iMac now only to have new hardware upgrades as well…
    sniff sniff

    Reply

  121. And they will miss all the back to school business!
    Yikes.
    One little product and it breaks the camel´s back???
    Things are not as rosie at Apple as we thought. There must be some real serious problems in Apple land. Unbelievably slow to bring out new products, delay, after delay.
    Has Steve lost it?

    Reply

  122. If a four month delay is “unbelievably slow,” then what was Microsoft’s time span between XP and Vista?

    That was an over four-year lipstick application!

    I’ll wait four short months. Mac OS X Tiger is already better than anything available anyway.

    Reply

  123. And with an October release and MacWorld a few months later….why would anyone (unless it is broke or stolen) buy a new Mac until after January 2008???

    We were planning at least 2 new macs this summer. Now on hold indefinitely.

    The computer is the second class citizen at Apple now. Steve has become Sony-fied.
    And if the iPhone bombs Apple bombs with it.

    Reply

  124. regardless of how this compares to vista, this is looks bad for apple.
    im really worried apple is losing it. maybe in over their heads or too much on their plates. either way this looks bad.
    honeymoon over?

    Reply

  125. SHAME ON APPLE!!!
    I’m as an apple fan feel so embarassed to ever make fun of vista delay.
    I believe apple is becoming microsoft.
    Let’s see how many new features removed from vaporware leopard.

    oh ya, iPhone is also delayed until 2010.

    Reply

  126. Whats wrong with you people, look what Apple has done, and is doing!!

    As a recent switcher, I love Tiger, and am more than willing to wait,

    MacDailyNews Note: Apple will report Q2 07 quarterly earnings on April 25, 2007.

    Apple’s recent earnings and unit sales information:

    2004:
    • Q1 (ended 12/27/03): revenue of $2.006 billion, net quarterly profit of $63 million, 829,000 Macs, 733,000 iPods
    • Q2 (ended 03/27/04): revenue of $1.909 billion, net quarterly profit of $14 million, 749,000 Macs, 807,000 iPods
    • Q3 (ended 06/26/04): revenue of $2.014 billion, net quarterly profit of $61 million, 876,000 Macs, 860,000 iPods
    • Q4 (ended 09/25/04): revenue of $2.350 billion, net quarterly profit of $106 million, 836,000 Macs, 02.016 million iPods

    2005:
    • Q1 (ended 12/25/04): revenue of $3.49 billion, net quarterly profit of $295 million, 1.046 million Macs, 04.580 million iPods
    • Q2 (ended 03/26/05): revenue of $3.24 billion, net quarterly profit of $290 million, 1.070 million Macs, 05.311 million iPods
    • Q3 (ended 07/13/05): revenue of $3.52 billion, net quarterly profit of $320 million, 1.182 million Macs, 06.155 million iPods
    • Q4 (ended 10/11/05): revenue of $3.68 billion, net quarterly profit of $430 million, 1.236 million Macs, 06.451 million iPods

    2006:
    • Q1 (ended 12/31/05): revenue of $5.75 billion, net quarterly profit of $565 million, 1.254 million Macs, 14.043 million iPods
    • Q2 (ended 04/01/06): revenue of $4.36 billion, net quarterly profit of $410 million, 1.112 million Macs, 08.526 million iPods
    • Q3 (ended 07/01/06): revenue of $4.37 billion, net quarterly profit of $472 million, 1.327 million Macs, 08.111 million iPods
    • Q4 (ended 09/30/06): revenue of $4.84 billion, net quarterly profit of $546 million, 1.610 million Macs, 08.729 million iPods

    2007:
    • Q1 (ended 12/30/06): revenue of $7.10 billion, net quarterly profit of $1 billion, 1.606 million Macs, 21.066 million iPod

    Reply

  127. Things are not as rosie at Apple as we thought. There must be some real serious problems in Apple land.

    @Hanford, I think it’s rather that the iPhone is way more complex than we realize. Check it out — It’s the OSX folks that got moved to the iPhone. They’re making a freaking computer out of that thing. I think we probably need to realize that the awesomeness we were looking forward to will actually be the iPhone.

    You wouldn’t expect two Nobel Prize winning novels to come out of the same author in the same year. It’s just too much. So we’ll get them one at a time.

    (By the way, sorry ChrissyOne for misspelling your name. ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />

    Reply

  128. @Fred Mertz:
    “If a four month delay is “unbelievably slow,” then what was Microsoft’s time span between XP and Vista?”

    Why does everyone compare Microsoft to Apple and vice-versa?
    I don´t give a rats butt about Microsoft. Why do their delays/problem make Apple better?
    So Stop the stupid “Well Microsoft is/did/was…” Who cares?
    I don´t own a Windows computer.
    Microsoft is not an excuse for incompetant performance and delays at Apple.

    Reply

  130. BFD, it’s just FOUR MONTHS. If XP had worked as well as Tiger, and Vista wasn’t a dog after being late FOUR YEARS, most of us wouldn’t have cra**ed all over M$ for their delay.
    Get a life!

    Reply

  131. Another thing, now i have to wait… and i am NOT buying a new computer till Feb 08 now. I dont trust them with hardware updates, and if i buy an imac before jan 08, i will probably get screwed…

    makes me want to vomit.

    Reply

  132. It’s on Apples site so this is for real. After I was over the initial shock and the reality set in, I’m thankful that they aren’t just pushing it out the door. This was a gutsy decision actually. As far as it effecting their sales, in the words of my daughter. “At least I don’t have to wait to get my macbook, I can just order it now”. OSX is still better than Vista, so it’s not as if there is something better out there. CS3 is released next week, and the Iphone is just around the corner so life isn’t THAT BAD.

    Reply

  137. @jeffgtr “I’m thankful that they aren’t just pushing it out the door. This was a gutsy decision actually.”

    Then you must be really impressed with the delays with Vista.

    And tell your daughter that you will have to hold back her allowance because in October you will be forking out another $200 for a new OS.

    Reply

  138. How is it that you expect Apple to release new cutting edge software on your time table? Do you have the ability to do better? Maybe you should start your own company and we could all chat about your hairy crack. If your concerned that Apple has lost it drive in the computer market that’s fine. Wait and see. But to expect a new revolutionary OS every 2 years is a bit much. I’m not very excited but have to remember this will only cost about $200.00 to update my Macs when it’s released. Everyone expects too much for too little. Quality costs and Mac OSX is still cheap.

    Reply

  139. GeorgyPorgy said:
    “The computer hardware should come first and the OS second, and consumer electronics third. Depressing!”

    Note to Georgy:
    Computers are consumer electronics. Oh, and the iPhone is computer hardware. Try to look past your feelings of angst and think clearly. Your looking foolish.

    Reply

  145. I am so upset!
    I have to go off to college this fall and I NEED the updated hardware and software b/c I am majoring in Architecture and I am scarred to purchase the MBP 10.4.9 now because I also have to buy CAD programs for my projects and other important Graphics Software.

    What should I do?

    Reply

  147. Actually, I put a high probability that Leopard will be late. I was weary of reports that it would be ahead of schedule since there is no mention at all about the secret features even now. I can’t imagine Leopard shipping without developers having their apps ready to take advantage of Leopard’s new features. This way, developers will have feature complete Leopard in June and have 4 months to prep their apps for it. It makes more sense.

    Reply

  148. For everyone’s information, Leopard is *NOT* being delayed, it’ll be released with the iPhone. It just won’t be available for Macs until October. ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />

    See, nothing to worry about.

    Reply

  152. So EVERYONE waits years for just the announcements for the iPhone.
    Then it comes out. We’re happy.
    Now, they want to work on the product that everyone wants
    & postpones the new OS.

    So which is it that you want?
    The iPhone or Leopard?
    No matter what they’re going to do a great job.

    Just get over yourselves.

    Reply

  153. “I’m just glad Apple said October instead of “fall” so we are spared MDN take and MDN take parsing what “fall” means.”

    True, but they can parse “early” or “mid” or “late” October and still drive us all crazy.

    Reply

  155. I think it’s no problem. I was going to wait six months (after the release) to upgrade. I guess now I’ll just have to be an “early adopter.” You have to think Apple decided to roll something new and important into the release. And I guess iPhone will be the first public release of Leopard after all.

    Another thing… I think there might be a 10.4.10 release of Tiger in the works.

    Reply

  157. The problem with Vista wasn’t its delay. The problem is what it is now that it’s actually shipping. People, is Tiger really a problem? Apple needs to take the time to get it right–with ALL of its products. The only thing that can stop Apple’s momentum these days is quality problems.

    And since this is IPOD DN (not MDN) must I point out that while mac users might not be happy with diversion of resources, iPod users should be. It isn’t SanDisk or Zune that is the potential ipod killer–it’s a cellphone/multipurpose device getting it right. The ipod franchise requires a cellphone presence. Thankfully Apple is fully embracing this reality as an opportunity and trying to do something wonderful. But unless they want the ipod to go the way of the walkman (and technolgy changes a lot faster these days), they NEED to do this.

    If 4 months would make you get Vista instead, well jeez you’d rather have Vista than Tiger? Have fun with that.

    And the more I think of it, the most stupid thing Apple could do is try to ship both near simultaneously.

    Once again, as a shareholder, I want Apple to take its time and get these things right. Quality is the biggest threat to their momentum, not schedule slippage.

    Reply

  158. @JohnE – You bet ya, I’ve got broker on alert for some major AAPL buying, (well, at least some AAPL buying).

    The Leopard delay does suck the big one, but if trade offs is what its all about, then I think they pretty much had to get the iPhone out first, and I really want as stellar an OS as Apple can provide, so I’ll expect really amazing things with 10.5. Still sucks though.

    Reply

  159. Well who cares about a few months but the main concern is Apply turning into Microsoft . I think it’s bad management to develop a new product and draw resources away from your main product, let’s face it we all use a mac because of the OS. I’m sure with apples experience they could have estimated the resources required to develop the iphone and hired extra staff accordingly..

    The secret features better be good.

    Reply

  160. What’s Apple doing with all of these pre-announcments anyway? The AppleTV, Leopard, and iPhone… It’s so Microsoftish.

    They need to just be Apple. Announce and release the product the same day. It’s much more magical that way.

    Magic Word: “finally” Man, that’s weird.

    Reply

  163. 1) Adobe CS3 works perfectly well on Tiger-based systems.
    2) So will whatever gets announced at NAB.
    3) Given that we know so little about Leopard, I’m confused as to how anyone could be so fired up about this delay.
    4) Not even developers really know the full story about Leopard. And – by the sounds of things – they’re not even going to until they get their beta in June.
    5) Would I prefer it that the Macintosh developer community had access to a near-complete Leopard for four months before commercial release so that they can fully understand the product? You betcha. Or would you all really prefer it if all the ISVs did their product acclimatisation whilst solving YOUR personal problems?
    6) The only people who really, really get hurt by this are those who, like my clients, are considering Xserve. But even that is dealt with by purchasing AMP.
    7) Unlike Vista which had most of its highlight technology ripped out, Leopard is still intact – although we have no real idea what intact means.

    Jesus, get a grip – it’s an OS, not a cure for cancer.

    Reply

  165. Whoa. The tears. The drama. The whining. Is it disappointing? Sure. But with the failure that is Vista, there isn’t a pressing need either to release the OS in June. Oh and one little tidbit for all of you…especially MDN to chew on….Vista SP1 is do in Q4 2007. You want to have something NEW to go against that into the holiday season. Q4 is the number one quarter for sales. Having a new OS released then will be huge.

    My lone fear is that if 10.5 is released then, then will iLife and iWorks be delayed to show off at MacWorld SF? What will they hold off?

    Predictions:

    1) June: iPhone
    2) August/September: Upgraded Nanos incorporating some iPhone/iTV functionality, MacBook Pros to add hardware H.264 compression
    3) October: Leopard, iPod (touchscreen), iLife, iWork (I believe these may be bundled to win over converts during the Q4 sales run), iMacs upgraded to the New styling – slimmer, optional black (Leopard apps seem to be moving towards the Black “iPhone and Apple.com” look and feel)
    4) January: Refreshed iTV with increased HD, processing, H.264 hardware compression, and possibly wireless keyboard with multi-touch touch pad with built-in Safari for websurfing. As well, I believe a small “nano” iPhone will be revealed (spaced out enough from the iPhone).

    Reply

  169. Great. I can hear the Microdouches on Ars and Engadget already.

    But I kind of figured this was coming. And I’m glad, if they need the time to release a fully finished product. At least we’ll get to see it in June.

    Reply

  175. God I’m glad I finally bit the bullet and ordered my MacPro and stopped waiting for OS X 10.5.. God I wanted the new OS before I got the new machine but couldn’t wait any longer. My new MacPro and my copy of CS3 both arrive next week–very excited.

    Chris

    Reply

  181. ps You think it sucks if you live in america, try living abroad, where you cant even make up for it by buying an iPhone.
    yea, thats right in june youll be able to buy an iPhone (Remeber!!!), so stop your god damned complaining and think about that.

    Reply

  183. @ beehive. who cares if the old OS is better? Seriously get back on your meds.
    And unlike windows the upgrade process for a mac works, unlike the hit and miss bs that users go through on windows machines.

    thats whats so scary for a windows user, the knowledge that an os upgrade might result in deletion of their files.

    are you refering to the ‘brand spanking’ new OS, the one thats 5 years late?

    Vista is nothing more than a dog shit with hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top of it.

    To say nothing of the build quality of a dell…

    But as i say, if you wanna buy a dell go ahead.

    Reply

  184. I’m disappointed too of course.

    But why are people SO pissed that they will put off a new hardware purchase until 10.5 ships? No one said that new hardware is going to be delayed. Yes, you’ll save $129, but that’s a small amount compared to the $1000 plus you just shelled out for a new computer. What’s the big deal? If you need a new computer for school, for work, whatever, just buy one now and upgrade in Oct. I doubt there’s anything in Leopard that’s so essential that you can’t wait. It sucks, but if you need a new Mac, BUY IT NOW!!

    Reply

  189. I for one was waiting for Leopard to buy a new Mac. My dual G4 MDD is gasping. But I will have to wait until October. Now, if Apple put a little bitty coupon on the box that gave me a “free” upgrade to Leopard if I buy now, I’m in my car and at the store before you can say “Don Imus is so fired!”

    Reply

  192. October? So what?

    This is good news – it means Apple arent releasing soemthing that isnt ready for playtime. Theres no point of releasing something just because ‘we want it now!’. Apple shipped Tiger too early as it was.

    Some of you people need to take a pill, relax and find something else to do until October.

    Reply

  194. > I for one was waiting for Leopard to buy a new Mac. My dual G4 MDD is gasping. But I will have to wait until October.

    I don’t understand people who say they have to wait. October is six months away. Six months is 1/4 of the life cycle of a typical Mac OS X major release. Since you have probably been waiting since last October for Apple to release Leopard, that’s one year (or half the life cycle of a typical Mac OS X release.

    When it comes down to it, an OS is the means for the computer to manage hardware, software, and network. The last time I checked, Tiger (and even Panther) did that just fine.

    If you need a new Mac due to performance contraints of your current system, just get it now.

    Reply

  197. I’m impressed this MDN thread is 4 pages long. That’s gotta be a new record!

    And, Beehive,
    I hope that when you said,

    “A “new” Mac has an old OS that I’ll have to replace within 6 months of buying it,”

    you were talking about “replacing” the OS and not the whole computer. Even so, backing your shit up and reinstalling a Mac OS is freakin’ cake! I can easily do the whole ‘backup/install OS/reinstall software’ in a weekend, and that’s working on it for only a few hours on Saturday and Sunday.

    Reply

  198. My reaction: Meh…

    Yes, I’d love to be trying out Leopard in six weeks instead of six months, but I’d much rather have a smooth transition from 10.4 to 10.5 like we have from all Mac OS X versions thus far than have Apple ship the 21st century version of System 6.0.6 (ask a Mac Lifer/old-timer about 6.0.6 – the version of the Mac OS that made it as far as the dealers before Apple said “Whoops!”) There’s the link I was looking for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Software_6#Version_history

    On-time is nice, but 4 months late but bug free is better in the mid/long term.

    After all it’s almost been 2 years already, what’s another couple of months?

    The downsides? A short term Apple Stock buying opportunity, and having Dvorak, Thurrott , Enderle, et al, frothing at the crotch for a couple of months.

    Big whip!

    “and this too shall pass…”

    Hano

    Reply

  199. I think Apple announced an actual release time frame and that the developers would get a beta at WWDC because it gives the consumers a time frame to base their own purchasing decisions on, and it also gives Apple leeway to release a little early (with much fanfare). Both are win-win situations for Apple, and both are unusual for Apple.

    (I think that first sentence is almost Faulknerian)

    Reply

  200. Bla Bla Bla my MBP will have to wait. Bla Bla Bla I won’t buy until…….

    Like Apple cares if your whinny ass is not buying.

    Don’t talk like you are all power-full with your dollars one and all.

    When the goods are ready you will either pony up the cash, download it or switch to linux. But please. Get off your high horse about it.

    You really don’t matter that much, neither do I.

    On another not it’s a bummer we all have to wait. But. Better late and great. Than crap.

    Reply

  202. So what’s the big deal?
    Tiger works great and will continue to do so. I’m probably not the only one who won’t be standing in line to upgrade to an OS, however new and flashy, that will likely break a few of the apps I depend on. If waiting till October gives ’em time to get it right, so be it. It’ll give the 3rd party developers time to catch up as well.My Macs won’t stop working in the meantime.

    Reply

  210. You can have Leopard NOW if you want it.

    Sign up for Apple Developer at the “Select” level and you can get access to Leopard in both client and server versions.

    If you have a second hard drive that you can use to boot from, you set it up to allow you to boot into Leopard and with our original HD, continue to use Tiger for regular work.

    It is expensive if you are just going this route as an “experimenter” but “Select” developer status also gets you one trip to the Apple Store’s developer section to but a complete system for development with a very very tidy discount on the hardware you buy.

    For example, get a Mac Pro 8-core and and a 30″ Cinema display for over $1000 off the Apple Store retail price (more than covering for the cost of the “Developer Select” subscription)

    Buy into the higher level and you can buy up to 10 Macs at heavily discounted prices.

    The real pay-off for me is that I can use this development environment to test the software we sell to our clients today and get ready for the full release of Leopard.

    PSST: there are some very very nice things in Leopard but I can’t talk about them.

    Psst: You can have a “insert MDM Magic Word Here” with 10.5

    MDN Magic Word is ball

    Reply

  211. What REALLY irritates me is not that Leopard is delayed, but that Apple decided that a cell phone is more important than their computers. I guess this further exemplifies why they removed “Computer” from their name. No issues though, if they continue to prioritize gadgets for teens, I’ll put more energy into Linux.

    Reply

  212. I hope Apple does the right thing and provides new Mac buyers, starting NOW, a free Leopard upgrade coupon. It will go a long way to keep the computer sales chugging along.

    MW: Without. I don’t want to buy a Mac “without” Leopard.

    Reply

  213. Sounds like a lame excuse… had to borrow engineers from iPhone? If they’re sitting on all that cash, shouldn’t they have freakin beefed up the dept. this year? How about bringing in 100 more engineers and sticking to the schedule?

    Reply

  214. “48 months late for a slow, insecure, bug-ridden EXPENSIVE upgrade versus 4 months late for true elegant innovation”

    Don’t you mean 30 months for a warmed over upgrade to Tiger, less than what Microsoft would call a service pack?

    “Nine woman cannot make a baby in a month.”

    No, but 30 months is long enough to hire and train quite a few people and make quite a lot of babies.

    Reply

  215. to those who are waiting to buy there Mac machine..

    why wait? I’m as eager as the next guy for 10.5 — but 10.4 is here and now, and by far and large the most advanced Operating System on this planet..And as for Vista, well the best it can do is beat Jaguar OS 10.2…Tiger is now and super stable…waiting and holding off, only means you want to procrasinate work and possibly settle for less (i.e. Vista), don’t!

    Reply

  216. ZFS implementation and 3D Finder (think Looking Glass project) are no trivial tasks.

    I would rather wait for a stable, proper working OS then the original 10.3 (Firewire problems) type thing.

    Just wonder if 10.4 will see any more updates between now and 10.5 debut.

    The Dude abides.

    Reply

  221. Wow, what a bunch of b!tching… All you people saying that this is going to cost Apple so many switchers – you do realize that the average “switcher” doesn’t even know that a new version of OS X is even coming out? The switchers are just sick of MS’ bullsh!t, and they want a computer that works. Tiger will solve that problem just fine.

    Leopard is only “critically” important to those of us who have already drank the kool-aid. As for me, I wish I was getting my hands on it in June, but this is a non-event for me overall, as I want Leopard to be finished and stable. I’m happy with Tiger, so I can wait a few more months.

    I’m amazed at how some people place so much importance on things like this… geez… life is calling!

    Reply

  222. I was delaying a purchase of a new iMac until Leopard was released. This is bad news and it’ll cost me money for an operating system that’ll replace Tiger (which I’ll probably have for just a few months). And I can live with that. However I’ll be spitting chips if I don’t see a new iMac range real soon. Real soon!

    Reply

  226. For me this was a big deal…I am a switcher(first step on the road to recovery) and I did know the new OS was coming out…and I was waiting for it because I am a student and I didn’t want to spend the extra cash on a new OS in October when I have to spend money on books and lab fees and whatever other crap I have to pay for…now it’s coming out after the school year starts so I have a choice to limp along with my ancient PC, XP and 18(not really but you know) virus protection subscriptions OR purchase the iMac now and buy the OS much later…

    Now I’m afraid they are going to offer a back to school special or something…I guess I could wait forever for the “next” thing and never buy…

    yes I’m whinning and I haven’t even drank the kool-aid yet…

    I guess I am still better off than if I purchased a new Dell and then have to deal with that headache…I suppose they came out with the announcement now so those that were waiting would just buy it now rather than p!ss people off in June after we waited another 2 months…

    I am disappointed…but I’m still going to switch and be bitter about it at least till I plug it in.

    Wahhhh wahhh wahh

    Reply

  227. Mac OS X Leopard will cost US$129.

    If you are holding off to buy a Mac to save a measly $129, you can’t afford a real computer.

    Get your Mac now and buy and install Leopard in October.

    I now return you to the overwrought rants from cheap and/or stupid idiots who don’t understand what the iPhone is or what it means to the future of the Mac platform.

    Reply

  228. R, dallas, G-Spank, Mad Munkee, RePlay, ChrissyOne, matt, JadisOne, Thorin, RC, Zeke, Chuck U Farley, Jay, Fred Mertz, hotinplaya, Shogun, Jake, wah wah wah, coolfactor, Jimi, ken1w, yet another steve, Mr. Peabody, MCCFR, DistantThunder, One guy from Finland, nuflux, Christopher Powers, razor, boulderfrog, LinuxGuy and Mac Prodigal Son, maczealot, ken1w, Cubert, Realista, Brau, Hanover Fist, CandTsmac, hedgehogfrenzy, Medelegant, gman, The Dude, Edgy
    & a few others.

    Were all disappointed to some degree &
    thanks for your rational comments.

    As for the rest of you Wah, Wah, Wah!

    Tiger still rocks.

    Reply

  229. I don’t mind waiting for a proper release of 10.5, but what disturbs me is the hype about Leopard’s release in spring of 2007. It was a disservice to Mac fans everywhere for Apple to promise a spring release date when it should have been obvious in Cupertino that Leopard was not ready for commercial circulation.

    Robert Service wrote, “A promise made is a debt unpaid.” It will some time before I believe Apple without some confirmatory evidence.

    Reply

  230. It shows that Vista has proven to be a zero-threat product. Now Apple feals no rush to put out Leopard since a 2 year old Tiger still bests Vista in EVERY POSSIBLE FEATURE! It’s incredble that this isn’t in every computing and IT publication and the Microsoft stockholders (and users) are not charging the gates for their money…. and lives, back. Amazing. The uneven playing field is enraging.

    Reply

  232. Big party scheduled for the weekly Dvorak-Enderle-Thurrott-Kantor coffee klatch! Stay tuned for ridiculous articles trying to equate Apple’s 4-month delay to Microsoft’s over 4-year long Windows Longhorn/Vista/PigLipstick debacle.

    My browser is set to auto-update MDN and the list of comebacks are ready to go.

    BTW, I knew Apple was getting sort of strained in the software department.

    I know things.

    Reply

  234. Two Things:

    First, the real disappointment is that many were hoping for Leopard to come out in January. So we’ve been thinking, “any day now” since lat November. Going all the way to October in that kind of “pretty soon!” mindset is really tiring.

    Second, I think people are deluded as to the seriousness of the iPhone. This thing is not a toy, neither is it an iPod. It’s a real computer with a real OS, with an endless array of applications that will be written over the years, and this is the first iteration, the foundational code that will be used for years to come.

    Too many people are thinking, “Oh, Apple’s no longer concerned about computers.” They’re wrong. This is all about computers. That’s the point.

    Reply

  237. I frankly think the iPhone was a good cover story. Test resources may have been on the iPhone, but they did say a more properly baked Leopard wouldn’t be ready for testing until June. So, what would you have put the test resources on while they waited?…

    I think getting the compelling features of Leopard ready took more than they anticipated.

    Just my 2¢.

    Reply

  242. “Unfortunately this does give M$ some room to maneuver.”

    Microsoft doesn’t need any space for Vista to dominate OS X. It’s already happened. The installed base of Vista already exceeds that of all OS X versions. The release of Tiger isn’t going to change that.

    Reply

  252. Jesus, what a bummer. No new iWork or iLife till October. No new version of Delicious Library till October. All these arbitrary things are linked to the release of Leopard, and they’ve just COMPLETELY blown their calendar. This has never happened in the lifetime of OS X, and it’s worrisome.

    It won’t help them capitalize on Vista’s awkward phase and people’s desire to switch to a ‘quicker, nimbler, more up-to-date operating system,’ that’s for sure. Because it won’t be shipping for the better part of an ENTIRE YEAR fter Vista’s consumer ship date. Microsoft must be ecstatic. Mediocrity loves company.

    There’s no way the iPhone is to blame–that sounds like a student’s excuse for not getting a paper done. As if they didn’t know they’d have to work on both things until now? Right. This is a major, Old Apple-style failure. Remember System 7? The worst part is that they must have known this months ago, but held off telling us until now. Or did they think something was going to magically happen to make them be six months further along in the development cycle than they are?

    At a minimum, we deserve an honest explanation for what the hell happened here. It’s stupid not to provide it, if in keeping with Jobsian secrecy. Without it, you can bet there will be a steady drumbeat of negative press speculation, and I’d be surprised if Wall Street wasn’t very, very interested in knowing what actually happened, too.

    Bring back Avie Tevanian! And fire whoever has replaced him. It seems like the minute he left, things started to stagnate and slow down.

    This is NOT good.

    Reply

  253. Deeo breathes everyone! Leopard has problems, they’re fixing it. Vista shipped anyway.
    Tiger is STILL a good, viable OS, I’m more eager to get CS3 than I am to get Leopard. The update to Leopard will still be reasonable, not the sticker shock Vista is.

    Reply

  256. All I’ve got to say is, if Apple is delaying products now, then there’s not much anymore that distinguishes them from MafiaSoft. It started with aTV, and now it’s the OS… supposedly their crown jewel. They’re seriously slipping. Next thing you know, Leopard will ship with a bunch of trialware and “antipiracy” measures that drive us all crazy.

    MW-“suddenly” as in suddenly MS and Apple seem practically the same. (Except that Vista is out and Leopard is not…)

    Reply

  260. I do not believe the explanation of the cause of the delay; And that casts a lot of doubts on everything Jobs says: what was the reason for keeping secret those 10 features? copier in Redmond or that they were just not ready for demonstration yet? what was the reason for setting spring as a deadline? they honestly inteded to release it in Spring or naming October back then would have made it obvious the above proposiotion about the 10 features. If you add to this other exhagerations Jobs makes here and there Jobs starts looking like a cheap salesman. And it is already not that obvious how is Apple different from Microsoft at least in terms of the drawbacks of having a salesman as a CEO…
    PS
    I like the post that as Apple named October we are saved from MDN’s stupid takes on what the Fall really means:)

    Reply

  262. This is EXTREMELY unfortunate.
    I have been waiting for 10.5 so I can do a full re-fresh and clean and install of my Powerbook just once. Now I’m going to have to do it TWICE (once now, because I’m out of hard drive space, and then again when 10.5 comes out).

    DAMN

    Come on, Apple, update Mac Mini. I’m NOT going to buy until you do, so you can forget about waiting to release the MacMini refresh the day AFTER I buy. I have the patience of a cat.

    Reply

  263. 1- Apple needs to hire more software engineers. They have +/- 1,000 SW engineers in their employ & with an expanding line of applications and platforms (Mac/iPod/iPhone/TV/Server), it’s obvious they need more. With a UNIX base, I’m sure more than a few former SGI, IBM, SUN & other SW engineers could be found. They should have a not too difficult learning curve.

    2- Apple needs to expand it’s beta testing program. More testers would make for faster bug ID and save a lot of diagnostic time better used quashing bugs.

    3- This means that the back-to-school sales season will feature Macs without the new OS. One can only guess at the sales hit.

    Reply

  264. To all those juveniles who posted a negative comment regarding the Leopard delay, I have this message: Get a life.

    First, Tiger is still the best desktop OS on the planet and 10.4.9 is rock-solid. And that isn’t just the view of the fanboys, it is the consensus of the computing community. In coming weeks we are about to get some very cool new toys for it in the form of CS3. For professionals who use the Mac platform, that is infinitely more important that having Time Machine.

    Second, the delay is a couple months. I am particularly hacked by the instant gratification crowd who immediately compare this to the delays associated with Vista. Longhorn/Vista was delayed by YEARS and was a piece of crap when it shipped. I am confident that Leopard won’t be.

    Third, those who whine about the iPhone (and how Apple is no longer a computer company) need to remember that it runs OSX too and, really, is just Apple’s smallest computer. As a stockholder I am ok with corporate strategy that makes OSX broadly used asset — in the long term, this is going to be VERY smart.

    Finally, it may simply be clever marketing to separate the delivery of iPhone and Leopard. There is no need for them to compete for attention and waiting until October to refresh the OS allows Apple to coincide it with its best selling quarter and, this year, with new hardware.

    Bottom line: Between this announcement, and the traditional punishment by Wall Street around the time of the quarter results, I see a good opportunity to buy some more Apple stock. AAPL will be at $140 by December.

    Reply

  265. “Second, the delay is a couple months. I am particularly hacked by the instant gratification crowd who immediately compare this to the delays associated with Vista. Longhorn/Vista was delayed by YEARS and was a piece of crap when it shipped. I am confident that Leopard won’t be.”

    It’s more than a couple of Months. Depending upon when in October it comes out, it may be as many as 5 months. Granted, 4-5 months is not 4 YEARS … but it’s still 5 long months in which my Powerbook has to chug-along in need of a hard drive cleaning/refresh

    Reply

  266. fsck.

    the truth is.. millions of Mac fans who were salivating over the OS X release are not as important as the earth-shattering iPhone.

    Oh well, at least we get iwork and iLife…

    (i guess)

    Reply

  269. Apple will still keep their promise of a spring release. They just didn’t say which hemisphere. Come down-under to New Zealand in October for the release. The spring weather might cheer you all up!!

    Alternatively Apple could pull some engineers off the iPhone to create some sort of gravitational device that knocks the earth off it’s axis, changes its orbit and turns the world upside down.

    Reply

  270. I hope Apple takes a big hit on this news so it NEVER happens again. After all the ridiculing of Microsoft on Longhorn/Vista delays, Apple is eating crow. This is now a pattern. Apple cannot be trusted to release products in a timely manner. They can make a whole paradigm shift with Intel processors in 9 months, but they can’t release software or the much-touted OS as promised. What a disappointment. As expected, this whole mess will not be cleaned up until holiday season 2007. I’m canceling all my plans to upgrade my hardware until Apple stops screwing up. If they think Apple TV and iPhone are going to float their boat until Leopard is released, they are sorely mistaken. This miscalculation could not occur at a worse time. A golden chance to checkmate Microsoft has come and gone. I’m sure it will eventually happen, but at a huge price. I’m disenchanted and have no enthusiasm for Sunday’s so-called event, and event that I’m sure will be met with yawns and skepticism. They have taken their eyes off the ball, and it’s strike 2 at the bottom of the ninth. This is a F-UP of the highest degree. I’m in no mood to be optimistic. Apple has let the Mac faithful down in a way that will linger for a long time to come. Shame on you Apple!

    Reply

  272. More proof that it’s no longer about the computers! No Mac or software announcements at Macworld and now they have prioritized iPhone over OSX! This is a disaster waiting to happen. I DO NOT CARE about the iPhone.

    Reply

  274. a) the statement on Apple.com News page seems to be real, but there’s no link to an official press release from the company. Could apple.com website be hacked ?

    b) if this is real : a 4-months delay is nothing compared to the 4+ years with MS Longhorn/Vista.

    c) this 4-months delay would give beta testers the opportunity to test Leopard in real conditions – on production machines i mean.

    d) I still believe there is a tight link between iPhone and Leopard, for instance for data sync, etc. Hence a big question mark about iPhone’ features set at release in June.

    Reply

  275. Dooooomed!!!!

    Or… fine, summer’s coming.

    So I’ll just carry on as normal and ride my mountain bike and cook tasty BBQs if I get twitchy.

    ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”cool smirk” style=”border:0;” />

    Reply

  276. To all the extremely silly and pathetic MS trolls that are circling over this, I suggest you get a life – equally junior Apple fans that think this is so crucial. Why?

    Tiger already destroys Vista.

    Vista is a mess and a disaster for MS.

    iPhone will arrive in June and destroy all before it.

    iTunes with movies and movie subscriptions and Apple TV will be huge.

    Leopard will be a massive leap forward over Tiger, and we want it to CLEAN UP AND DESTROY WINDOWS – FOREVER AND EVER.

    BE HAPPY AND HANG ON TO YOUR HATS FOR 6 MONTHS GUYS.

    Reply

  277. To Macaday: Thank you for renewing my hope that there were other adults here.

    To all those pathetic souls for whom the delay of Leopard gave rise to breast beating and cries of Apple’s doom: Get yourselves some professional counsel immediately.

    One last thought: The delay of Leopard may be a sign that Apple is committed to delivering a true Vista-killer, since the currently announced feature set is nice, but not revolutionary. Setting delivery for October would allow Steve to demo some amazing new capabilities at WWDC in early June and have time to get them stable through beta testing by early fall.

    Reply

  278. October 07 for Leopard suits me perfectly as I plan on buying a new 15″ MBP to replace my ageing PB 15″ in October.

    Plus it’ll help ensure Office 2008 is THE most powerful and best Microsoft product they have. Office 08 is due around about the same time, October. No doubt like all the other devs at WWDC MS will walk away with a dev copy to use for compatibility testing of their apps.

    Btw the Office line and the Macintosh Business Unit within MS is the only department that is actually making money rather than haemorrhaging money like all the other departments.

    As for OS 10.6 I’d call it Lion. That should affirm OS X as the best, most secure OS there is, by name. As for deed we already know OS X has that accolade.

    What a great summer of 2007 is going to be, the iPhone! Okay I am in UK and will have to wait until November for the iPhone, barring any further delays as a service provider is yet to be confirmed. My cell phone is due for an upgrade and I have told my provider that I won’t upgrade to anything else but the iPhone.

    By no means, also confirmed by my provider, am I alone in asking for the iPhone!

    Reply

  279. October 07 for Leopard suits me perfectly as I plan on buying a new 15″ MBP to replace my ageing PB 15″ in October.

    Plus it’ll help ensure Office 2008 is THE most powerful and best Microsoft product they have. Office 08 is due around about the same time, October. No doubt like all the other devs at WWDC MS will walk away with a dev copy to use for compatibility testing of their apps.

    Btw the Office line and the Macintosh Business Unit within MS is the only department that is actually making money rather than haemorrhaging money like all the other departments.

    As for OS 10.6 I’d call it Lion. That should affirm OS X as the best, most secure OS there is, by name. As for deed we already know OS X has that accolade.

    What a great summer of 2007 is going to be, the iPhone! Okay I am in UK and will have to wait until November for the iPhone, barring any further delays as a service provider is yet to be confirmed. My cell phone is due for an upgrade and I have told my provider that I won’t upgrade to anything else but the iPhone.

    By no means, also confirmed by my provider, am I alone in asking for the iPhone!

    MW: ‘more’ as in what more could we possibly want in an OS so advanced already!

    Reply

  282. Actually I’m afraid to say that this is actually the second delay to Leopard, Apple (then Computer Inc.) originally stated that the shipping date was going to b
    e “fall 06” (see http://www.tuaw.com/2006/08/07/the-elephant-in-the-room-apple-pulls-a-microsoft-delays-leopar/ ) and then bumped it to spring 07, now it’s going to be fall 07.
    Don’t get me wrong I love Tiger and think it’s a perfectly adequate operating system, but lets not kid ourselves here; Leopard is now delayed a year from the originally stated shipping date…and who’s to say it won’t be delayed further.
    For me I’m not too upset that it’s being delayed, I’d much rather see a complete, trend setting release, with all the bugs squashed, than a half-baked relase like Vista is. Here’s to hoping Leopard is an operating system remeniscent of the upgrade to Panther, as even though Tiger was a great relase, in comparison to Panther the upgrade was not as awe inspiring.
    TM
    MDN Word: night, as in lots of peoples ideas of when Leopard would should have changed over night

    Reply

  283. actually apple as far as i saw, were always careful to say that they were, at this stage on track to deliver leopard in spring. They never promised definatively a bloody thing. Whereas the iPhone was specifically announced as a June product release.

    I mean if its not ready, then its not Fuc*ing ready. Its a few months, thats it. Leopards going to be kickass, so stop your whinging.

    As it seems that only a few people on this forum realise, this iPhone release is going to be the foundation for an incredibly important part of Apples business in the years to come. Apple are also aware that the whole Tech industry as well as the population as a whole are eagerly awaiting the iPhone. They have to get this release right first time. If leopard needs to be delayed a few months then so be it.

    And another thing, some people are saying that Apple should be focusing on the OS and not a silly phone. The iPhone is the next computer platform!!!! Do you get it yet? Computers are going mobile, im not talking about some watered down half-baked windowsCE crap, or even a palm based thing, We’re talking a real computer in your hand. Its the first of its kind. Open you mind a bit and dont get so bent out of shape about this.

    Reply

  284. @iMaki – …” I’m in no mood to be optimistic. Apple has let the Mac faithful down in a way that will linger for a long time to come. Shame on you Apple!”

    Bullshit !

    I feel for you, but you must be very naive and unworldly to think that life is like a box of chocolates and all the roads are paved in gold.

    iMaki, sometimes it’s not all about you, it’s about the greater good for everybody.

    Get a grip dude / dudette,

    Reply

  285. Great news!

    Apple has more time to rewrite that crappy Finder. It’s probably one of the worst pieces of OSX. If they can design a GUI as good as the iPhone GUI appears to be, they certainly can correct the mistake in judgement known as Finder.

    ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />

    Reply

  287. “Tiger already destroys Vista.”

    Except that Vista’s installed base is already larger than Tiger’s and Microsoft’s just getting warmed up. Methinks you have a strange definition of Destroy.

    “Vista is a mess and a disaster for MS.”

    If Vista is a disaster for MS because it’s already sold more copies than Apple ever did of Tiger, then it’s clear that Leopard will be more of a disaster and deserves to be delayed.

    “iPhone will arrive in June and destroy all before it.”

    Maybe Version 5 of the iPhone will be successful when Apple figures out what it needs to do to make a successful phone. (ROKR=V1, SLVR=V2, RAZRV3i=V3, Current iPhone=V4)

    “iTunes with movies and movie subscriptions and Apple TV will be huge.”

    Crappy low quality movies delivered over the Internet? it’ll be probably about as successful as the iTunes music store, which is to say not too successful compared to other methods of music distribution.

    “Leopard will be a massive leap forward over Tiger, and we want it to CLEAN UP AND DESTROY WINDOWS – FOREVER AND EVER.”

    Again, check the definition of destroy.

    Reply

  288. Apple seems to be putting every thing in the iPhone basket. Because of the iPhone we haven’t seen new ipods, monitors, mac minis, 10.5, a “full featured” apple TV. Gonna be a long year.

    Reply

  289. I already have my MPB, will get the iPhone and look forward to the October release of Leopard. Bitch all you want, but what can you do about it? It’s not like it’s exactly life threatening!

    Reply

  290. A similar conversation to this had to take place in Apple HQ:

    “We can either finish Leopard or the iPhone on time, not both”.

    “Which is more important to Apple – an updated OS for a computer or a new Apple gadget?”

    “Even if we put Leopard out on time, how many more computers are we really going to sell? Desktop sales are diving, notebooks are plugging along – but a new OS is going to increase sales, what…a few percent for a short while?”

    “Yeah, the market forces are against us in increasing computer market share to double digits. It ain´t gonna´ happen. I mean OSX was already supposed to do that and it did not happen – market share is about the same. And AppleTV for the computer is turning out to be a dud – nobody understands why they need it or wants to hassle with it. And it is not increasing Mac sales. iPod is proof Apple can do gadgets real well.”

    “But the iPhone is a whole new territory. No competition really in the niche we are going after. Heck if we just get the same 5% market share in the cell phone market as in computers that will be more revenue than all our computer sales times 10!”

    “So what is important to Apple the computer or the gadgets?”

    “We dropped the word computer from the our name.”

    “Full speed ahead on the iPhone, damn the new OS!”

    Reply

  291. I don’t exactly understand the market share discussion of Vista vs XP vs OS X. Because of the business model, Windows is Windows. It doesn’t matter which version because it will ultimately be foisted onto the general public whether they like it or not. Notice that there are still more Windows 98 users that OS X users, too. Nothing is changing now– except that Apple’s share is still growing (and more quickly).

    So what about the delay? People always look for doom and gloom– and on this board, armchair brilliance (because it’s entertaining). Instead of being released to make a quicker buck, these products are being released when they’re ready. In typical fashion, their 1.0 release with iPhone will be like a 3.0 release for someone else. And for Leopard, does anyone really believe that they aren’t going to push for it to be stellar, especially now?

    Sheesh– go date or something. If this leaves scars on you, you have major issues. For starters, there’s emotional enmeshment– google and get a clue. Or, just get another hobby that allows you to feign importance when you blather into the ether.

    Reply

  292. “foisted onto the general public whether they like it or not.”

    No, they can decide whether to buy a PC or a Mac.

    “still more Windows 98 users that OS X users, too”

    What does that tell you about how much consumers care about what OS they’re running on their PC clone hardware?

    “their 1.0 release with iPhone will be like a 3.0 release for someone else.”

    As I pointed out above, this IS the 4.0 release of an iTunes phone.

    Reply

  293. Shooting themselves in the foot for gadgetry – with that timeline, schools won’t be buying Leopard until summer ’08. I was really looking forward to rolling it out to our school this summer. Can’t do it in October. Can’t even really do it after mid-August.

    Dear Apple, you pulled developers away from supporting one of your core markets, education, to work on a whimsy gadget. Don’t you realize that if you miss the summer education buying cycle, it gets put off a whole year?

    We were going to propose getting rid of a PC lab (we’re basically a half-half school) and buying a MacBook cart or two (already have three iBook carts and four crappy PC carts). Leopard was going to be a big part of that demonstration. I’ve seen many kids from Windows-centric families bring the wonders of Apple technology home to their parents. The education market is hugely important to Mac market share.

    Screw you, Apple, you ruined my week.

    Reply

  294. I too am not surprised by the idiots who do not understand the difference between 4 months and 4 years. Guys? Learn math. Microsoft was ridiculed (and rightly so) because they kept people on tenterhooks for Y E A R S. A few months IS a slip. And one more thing — Apple is being honest by coming out in the open and admitting it, something which Microsoft never does.

    Reply

  295. I may hang myself. Oh Apple! What have you done to me?

    I feel like crap. I’m afraid I might constipaded and stopped-up over all of this. First global warming, Ballmer throwing chairs and now Apple delays Leopard!

    And a note to Ballmer: Yo mamma so fat, on a scale of 1 to 10, she a 747.

    Reply

  297. Get a grip.

    Tiger is a great O/S. How many whiners have a real reason to buy 10.5 that will truly impact their productivity?

    How many knowledgeable users would be likely to run out and install a new O/S in the first month anyway? Fanboys and newbies install critical 1.0 software. If you were waiting to buy that new computer I feel for you but if you NEED one today just go buy it. If you WANT one today wait until next week/month/year because they’ll be better.

    A delayed OS doesn’t make Apple like MS any more than the 2-button mouse did.

    Those who say they don’t care about the iPhone should grow up. Apple has a lot of eggs in this basket and you should be cheerleaders even if you don’t want one. The better they do across all product lines the more money they’ll have to spend on whichever ones you care about.

    Those who bitch about how Apple is no longer just a computer company should go buy a Levono. (or however you spell it) Expanding the brand is a good thing as long as the quality remains high.

    Anyone who says “I told you so” deserves a boot in the ass. If I call a coin flip heads, half of the time I’ll be able to say I Told You So and the other half nobody will pay attention since they know it was a 50/50.

    Reply

  298. “Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.”

    This is anecdotal rather than any kind of testable hypothesis.

    The mythical man month presents interesting and oft quoted ideas, but is more interesting for what it has to say as to how to avoid the consequences it predicts.

    In practice those projects which get resource added to them are usually FUBAR, those which don’t are usually going along fine. Projects which get resource added are already predisposed to missing repeatedly re-set deadlines even if that resource was not added. Nobody has the chance to run both scenarios and see how it would have worked out.

    It doesn’t make a lot of sense to pile in a bunch of unskilled resource in the last days of a project, and that will have a negative effect.

    But rules against adding resource assume that you don’t properly design and subdivide the project. Really what the rule says is in order to avoid the consequences it predicts, you MUST properly design and subdivide the project so that skilled resource can be brought into smaller teams as needed to recover or improve the time line.

    This OS development has been going for 2 years, and the iPhone development has been running for over two years so there’s certainly been the potential to augment each with appropriately skilled resource at some point in that time.

    All that points to is that Apple didn’t realize they were in trouble until too late.

    Reply

  299. Why does the word “HATE” define Apple community so well? Why do you always want to “Destroy”, “Kill”, “F*ck” etc. Windows, or whoever is not Apple?

    How about taking it easy, enjoying OS X as a nice OS it is, lovely hardware designs and great software on it? So it is late? Big deal, just wait a bit, but please don’t start shooting and KILLING out of frustration. How about some LOVE instead? People, what makes you different from Windows users is the VENOM and HATRED you seem to spew. What a sad bunch – I pity you.

    Most, perhaps even all, Windows users get on with the world and their lives without even 0.01% of pure vitriol that you produce. I wonder if anyone estimated if Apple users die younger – all this stress trying to KILL and DESTROY must be bad for your blood pressure.

    Do I need to say how offputting is your attitude to someone who might be thinking of switching? Gee, perhaps I would like an Apple, but I couldn’t bear this cult of hatred. How could anyone normal be seen to belong to this organisation. You smell of too much testosterone and not enough of flowers in bloom. Your image is 180% opposite of what Apple is trying to build (OK, maybe not, the ads are a bit weird).

    Choose: love thy Windows neighbour or go on with your jihad. You’ve see the world.

    B.

    Reply

  301. @Buddhist – Ah, the differences between loyal users, fans and freaks.

    Naturally you are right but luckily the freaks are less than 1% of the Apple community. They may live just as long but I doubt they get laid as much.

    Also, I have met more than a few Windows freaks who hate Apple though it may be mostly as a reaction to the Apple Freaks.

    Reply

  302. Oh I am so surprised.

    They are too busy screwing around with telephonic vaporware to put any emphasis on the foundation technology that allows the entire product line to run and be amazing.

    See, TOLD YOU! Using Mac World to introduce a phone was a dumbass idea. It took valuable resources from the needed work and put it on vaporware. It shows they are not keeping their eye on the ball. The ivaporPhone will be delayed too if they don’t get to work. It relies heavily on Leopard.

    I guess the kool-aid tastes a little rank today.
    I guess I will have to wait until October until my Mac-Pro runs at its full potential.

    Just my $0.02

    Reply

  306. Seriously, folks. Are you really going to put off buying hardware so that you can have the latest OS? Haven’t we learned ANYTHING from vers 1 of any upgrade? Wait 3-6 months after it comes out, THEN upgrade the software.

    For now, buy your awesome new Mac with Tiger, spend the $130 on Leopard(still cheaper than any Windows UPGRADE) when it’s stable, and know that you get to make your whiz-bang iWeb pages NOW instead of next year!

    Reply

  307. just for the record..everyone needs to shut the fcvk up!

    7 pages of rambling? good grief! I have Tiger — don’t wait, buy a Mac now — if you are a windows to mac person — Tiger will blow you socks off!

    Reply

  308. OK…I am going to buy my iMac this weekend…I will miss the witty whinny banter…I have only been watching this board for the Leopard release dates…thanks for all the advice/opinions/common sense or not so

    …you can add one more to the switched category.

    Reply

  309. Hmmm I think the problem with Apple is too aggressive advanced marketing. With hindsight a release of a completely new technology product and a major update to their OS was always ambitious. Clearly the excuse from Apple is only going to tell half of the story. I’m guessing that both the iPhone and OS X development were slipping so it makes sense to complete one after the other. Clearly the reports of OS X still being short of RTM were true.

    It’s also not a easy simply saying ‘throw more programmers at it’. You have to find developers with the skills to do the job and then give them time to pick up rather complicated projects. Often thrown more resources in terms of staff can actually slow rather than speed up a development process.

    After six months of constant anti-PC advertising from them it’s a little embarrasing to announce another delay in your OS release. Let’s not forget it will be a year later than the original intented release date when we finally get Leopard.

    OK it’s not Vista proportions but it delays do add pressure as expectations build up. I hope they get it right.

    Reply

  310. Wow, 300. And half of them aren’t jumpin my ass like a few other times.

    I like this comment
    “just for the record..everyone needs to shut the fcvk up!”

    I don’t even know what it means, but it makes me feel young…..

    Reply

  314. WOW. 7 pages of feedback. Talk about overreacting (and reacting to the overreacting, and so on…)

    As others have pointed out – if you need a Mac NOW for something, just buy one. Tiger is a great OS that can do anything you might need it to, and your shiny new computer will run Leopard when it comes out. Just budget in an extra 100 bucks or so for the upgrade.

    What I wonder now is:

    1) Is there a 10.4.10 update in the cards in the meantime?

    2) Will the Leopard beta Apple is promising for WWDC show off its “Secret Features” or will we have to wait until October to find out what they are?

    MW: believe. Heh

    Reply

  316. Nine woman cannot make a baby in a month.

    Maybe not, but they sure as hell can have some fun…

    Good thing I’m poor at the moment; I have to wait to get my MacBook. Things tend to just work out, don’t they? (Except when they don’t; that just sucks…)

    Reply

  319. “2) Will the Leopard beta Apple is promising for WWDC show off its “Secret Features” or will we have to wait until October to find out what they are?”

    That’s the Reality Distortion Field in action. There are no significant secret features. That was just a lie to stop you looking at Leopard as presented and asying “Is that All?”

    Reply

  320. This is actually rather funny. When Vista was delayed everyone was pointing fingers and laughing, but when Apple delays its OS it’s suddenly “the right choice”. In truth, something went wrong, and everyone should recognize it. I am a great fan of the mac OS, but applauding apple on this is just plain wrong.

    Reply

  321. Seven pages. And slowing down. How to spread the fire again…

    BRING BACK ZUNE TANG!!!! We’ll need Zune Tang researchers to analyze his form and process it into new posts. I, for one, am willing to work on this project.

    Here goes:

    —-

    Pissed at a rotten apple for holding off a pile of crap? Feel like a brainless lemming for making dumb decisions? Hate your computer for failing to work with your brand-new Zune? Confused and irritated by the dilirium of an operating system that has never stopped a single virus?

    Then you need Vista! Vista comes from the proud family of Windows, the most successful operating system ever. And man, does success mean satisfaction! Vista is the youngest and most active OS on the market and has over 20 million users in two months!

    Vista gives you the newest computer experience ever! The new Sidebar at the side of the screen gives you unique little applications called “gadgets” like Calculator, Date and Recycle Bin! You can customize your Sidebar by downloading gadgets from Microsoft’s website! You can do an Instant Search for a file that you seem to have misplaced. Just pop open the Start menu, type a keyword into the textbox, and voíla! Instant Search finds it for you. Chess Titans is specially built to increase your brainpower quickly through the use of Vista and Chess. Many Chess Titans levels are purposely easy so you can win while your brain recovers from its lapse.

    So stop ranting on MDN about how good your toy is even though it’s too sissy to turn off. Get Vista and get it over with!

    Your potential. Our passion.

    —-

    So, Zune Tang, how’d I do?

    Reply

  323. Apple, please do the right thing. Be honest with your customers, your suppliers, and your partners. If you don’t, you will end up like Microsoft.

    “His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.” Psalms 7:16, KJV.
    “Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.” Job 4:8, KJV.
    “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” Galatians 6:7, KJV.

    Reply

  324. “Apple, please do the right thing. Be honest with your customers, your suppliers, and your partners. If you don’t, you will end up like Microsoft.”

    And verily it came to pass that a religious nut-job posted to MDN

    Reply

  325. ‘And verily it came to pass that a religious nut-job posted to MDN’

    Hallelujah, only a loser would call THAT being a nut job.

    Can you quote any of Steve Jobs speeches?

    That’s what I thought…..

    MW:red

    Reply

  330. “Let me explain, I am tolerant of other people’s beliefs.”

    Except apparently when they conflict with yours. That’s not actually what tolerance means.

    Your posts might be more coherent if you stopped posting drunk or stoned.

    Reply

  332. “No, child, that is not tolerance. That is ignorance.”

    Freedom of speech is a bitch, because to guarantee freedom, you have to put up with a lot of ideas you personally don’t like being put forward.

    Yet to allow a small group, or even the majority to censor others goes against that freedom. All the things you mention, prejudice based on race, sex and religion were accepted by the majority at some time in the past.

    As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, “The best test of truth is the power of thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the marketplace”

    Trusting in that process to succeed, and accepting that others have a right to their opinion no matter how abhorrent you find it to be is tolerance.

    Reply

  333. “Do yo know the lyrics to any songs?”

    Your faith was strong but you needed proof
    You saw her bathing on the roof
    Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew her
    She tied you to a kitchen chair
    She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
    And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

    Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah

    Reply

  334. Oh, the dichotomy

    You tell me of tolerance when you have none for a person of faith.

    You tell me of freedom of speech when I use mine.

    You quote a song. Does that make you a Rufus nut job?

    You quote a poet, the son of a Calvinist preacher, who also wrote

    Not in the world of light alone,
    Where God has built his blazing throne,
    Nor yet alone in earth below,
    With belted seas that come and go,
    And endless isles of sunlit green,
    Is all thy Maker’s glory seen:
    Look in upon thy wondrous frame, —
    Eternal wisdom still the same!

    Does this, by default, make you a religious nut job?

    You know, if you could drive in circles as good as you talk in one, you would be a hell of a NASCAR racer.

    Reply

  335. “You tell me of tolerance when you have none for a person of faith.”

    Just because some-body’s a religious nut job doesn’t mean I don’t tolerate them.

    “You quote a song. Does that make you a Rufus nut job?”
    You asked if I knew any song lyrics.

    PS. You may have confused Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr the poet and son of a Calvinist preacher with Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr the Supreme Court Judge. That could undermine your argument in the previous post just a bit.

    Reply

  336. ‘ That could undermine your argument in the previous post just a bit’

    Actually, not much, as junior was raised by this man.

    ‘Just because some-body’s a religious nut job doesn’t mean I don’t tolerate them.’

    My point of you quoting something. Because this person happens to know some passages in the Bible you call them a nut job. Where is your logic in this? Because that person is learned? Do you disagree with the passages? Do you know this person? I can quote Heinlein, does that make me a sci-fi nut job, just because I read it as a child?

    Hally, I could really care less about this debate. You mentioned in an offhand remark that an entire religion, and for that matter all members of all religions, are nut jobs.

    I just don’t get how anyone can be so callous. Try a little humor next time, if your personality can allow that.

    Reply

  337. “You mentioned in an offhand remark that an entire religion, and for that matter all members of all religions, are nut jobs. “

    No, I mentioned that those who start quoting scripture in a discussion about an operating system shipping late are nut jobs.

    Somebody stands up in a business meeting you’re in and starts quoting multiple passages from the bible, what do you think?

    Fred: Joe, what do you think about telling our customers that we’re going to ship late?
    Joe: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap
    Fred: What?

    “Do you disagree with the passages?”

    Religion is as much a force for good as it is for evil.

    Read Deuteronomy some time.

    Some choice pieces starting with Deuteronomy 2:32: (King James Version just in case you’re reading a sanitized translation)

    “Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz.
    And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
    And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain
    Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.”

    Take the cities, kill everyone including the noncombatants in the name of God. Words to live by…

    Quote an uplifting passage, for each one I’ll find you a sick one.

    On to The Koran: Arberry’s translation 4:34

    “Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great.”

    “Actually, not much, as junior was raised by this man.”

    You were wrong, and hastily posted something without checking your facts. if you knew anything about constitutional law, you could never have confused the two people.

    “Try a little humor next time, if your personality can allow that.”

    Ha Ha, the Q’ran instructs us to beat our women and the bible suggest we should kill the innocent children of our enemies. Ha Ha.

    Reply

  340. I think that the iPhone is a cool gadget if you like SmartPhones and $100 cellphone bills. But I’m not one of those people.

    I have been waiting for Leopard to upgrade my PowerBook G4. I am VERY disappointed that I now have to wait until October. I would be willing to upgrade to a MacBook Pro sooner if they offer free Leopard upgrade coupons. But I have waited this long and Vista is no alternative (although Sony makes some cool laptops).

    Reply

  342. Hope most of these comments make it back to Apple.

    What the fck are you thinking Apple. Toys like the iPhone aren’t your bread and butter. What’s all this sht about people switching? What to AT&T? No, to the Mac – dumbasses. People are waiting to purchase equipment and software to get the most for their money. “Yeah, I was thinking about switching but what’s this delay – doesn’t sound any better to me.”

    Steve, you better not pull a Marie, fcking, Antoinette with your pet project; ala , “Let them eat cake!” Hate to hear Bill Maher refering to you as CEO Sht for brains.

    MDN Magic Word – hands. As in put one hand out for Leopard and one under your ass and see which gets full first.

    Reply

  343. Very mature.

    Actually, toys like the iPhone (like oh, say, the iPod) are in fact a rather large loaf of bread and a few sizable heard of dairy cows to Apple at the moment. You might want to read quarterly reports before making your grand pronouncements about how Apple should run its business.

    -c

    MW: ‘army’ (of me)

    Reply

  344. “Belief is the opposite of thought,”

    Based on?????

    Anyhow, this isn’t your cross to bear.

    Your thoughts had he called you a “sexual nut-job”? (kinda ironic word play, there) vs a “religious nut-job”?

    Reply

  345. Chrissy,

    Thanks for sharing. Your prognostications (and others) about a product that doesn’t exist are illusory. Perhaps you’ll consider an I.O.U. for your next meal, rather than real food.

    As an aside, consider that belief may be thought, as in thoughts that attempt an explanation for something considered unexplainable.

    Reply

  346. “Based on?????”

    Living in the real world.
    There is no invisible man in the sky. I fully support your right to believe in any childish fairy stories you like.
    I’m just not required to entertain them.

    And I didn’t ask for anyone’s acceptance. Call me all the names you like! I promise, I’ve heard them all.

    And if I’m wrong, may God strike me de-

    (psych!)

    -c

    Reply

  350. “And verily it came to pass that an atheist nut-job posted to MDN”

    Now we’re going to get down to the definition of Atheist and Agnostic

    Personally I can’t decide between the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or more traditional religions, but I can explain how God cannot be All Knowing and All Powerful and free choice can still exist.

    “I guess that means I know nothing of history.”

    Apparently. The quote and the fact we were discussing freedom of speech gave you all the context you needed to know which one.

    Reply

  355. “If you want nine, you will have to argue with the brick wall yourself.”

    Haha… yeah page seven bored me… I just ordered my Mac Pro… First Mac Computer purchase ever… Didn’t want to wait till October anymore… That’s my birthday and someone can buy me the new software!

    Reply

  356. Whaty you guys fon’t don’t know is that
    putting a tube in your rectum and then the other end in your nose
    getting all them farts in your brain
    makes looking at titties and Mac websites
    AMAZING.
    I keep farting it up, inhaling it up, then exhaling.
    I’m getting so drunk, drunk right off my own methane.
    Hally, I think you’re great, but you gotta let loose
    in as many ways as I do.
    Right into my own nose, I do, I let loose, that is.
    Whew!
    What a high!!!

    Reply

  357. “It’s over. Your attitude towards anyone different from you is typical of someone in your situation. “

    What, that I have an open mind and will engage in rational debate?

    I didn’t say God does not exist, rather there are a set of attributes assigned to the Christian God which cannot logically concurrently exist.

    Reply

  358. “You believe in the easter bunny, too?”

    Where else do Easter Eggs come from? If you’re walking in a field (as many kids were this month) and you find an Easter Egg (as many kids did this month), you look at it and you immediately understand that it was not the product of natural processes but rather that it was the work of an intelligent creator.

    Therefore it’s existence in the field REQUIRES and PROVES the existence of the Easter Bunny.

    Best as I can tell, Frizbeetarianism offers no explanation as to how Easter Eggs end up in fields.

    Reply

  359. that last post was obviously Sidney Stephen.

    And no, Hally, you don’t have an open mind, and it is not rational to call someone a nut-job because of their beliefs any more that it is OK to call someone a dick sucking fag.

    Reply

  360. “not rational to call someone a nut-job because of their beliefs”

    Be aware that I didn’t call anyone a nut job for their beliefs, I called them a nut job for quoting scripture over an operating system delay.

    Back to that conversation:

    Fred: What should we tell our customers about our operating system delay?

    Joe: His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

    Fred: I’m not sure what you mean, can you clarify?

    Joe: Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

    Fred: Still not sure what you’re getting at…

    Joe: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

    Fred: It’s not really clear to me yet

    Joe: We shouldn’t lie to them.
    Fred: Ok Got it now, for a moment I thought you were a religious nut job.

    “any more that it is OK to call someone a dick sucking fag.”

    The Supreme Court actually disagrees with you. It goes back to what I said, free speech is not based on what one particular person thinks is OK. That said, I’m not arguing with your statement about calling people dick sucking fags, just saying that it’s not your job, or anyone else in America’s job (except arguably ultimately the Supreme Court interpreting the constitution) to decide if that’s OK or not.

    Reply

  361. Of couse there is freedom of speech here, Hally, no one has denied that.

    This all started becaue of a post of yours that made you feel superior by trashing someone elses use of words. Small minded.

    And here is a flash, many in corporate America do use the Bible as a guide (not me). My brother in law is very successful and helps with decision making by looking in the Bible. That doesn’t mean everyone needs to do it.

    I’m not trying to be the Type Police here, I’ll leave that to Sidney Stephen.
    My point is, you were just being an asshole. And you know that.

    Reply

  362. Brother loves bible,
    Brother=Successful,
    Bible=Good.

    I’m convinced.

    You know, there are many successful people in this country that speak Klingon.
    Tom Cruise is successful, and he’s a bat-shit insane scientologist.
    Scientology=Good.
    Right?

    Of course, you don’t know the history of Scientology. I do.

    {intensity}

    Whatever. You wanna be crazy? Godspeed. Just please keep your crazy out of my classrooms and courts, and please stop knocking on my door on Saturday morning. I’m busy sucking dick.

    -c

    Reply

  364. You don’t know a goddamn thing about my ‘lifestyle’ honey. ;P You should hear how hard I am on trannys. Most of them are creepy as fsck.
    So save if for someone else.
    If you’re not a religious person, then I’m not even talking to you. So how would that be a slam?

    If someone seriously believes in Santa Claus, I don’t slam their lifestyle.
    But I’m not going to pretend they’re not barking mad.

    You’re an individual, or you’re a sheep.
    Make you’re choice, and live with it.

    -c

    Reply

  368. My best friend is gay. He works for a Fortune 50 company, lives in a major city, pays taxes, eats at restaurants, goes to movies, takes vacations etc. etc.

    Our lifestyles are identical except who we want to have sex with. I don’t define my lifestyle as a function of my libido, do you?

    (and we’re both atheists. and we both like chocolate easter eggs. we’ve never discussed the existence of the bunny.)

    Reply

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