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Die, you scum! Die!

Nov 24, 09 - 01:31 pm Comment from: iPhoner

Tell Psystar what you think.

http://www.psystar.com/contacts/

Apple is playing easy. They have every right to break them financially, too, for their lying and cheating, but I dont see that is what they are after.

There is still good in the world, despite the low life ass scum like Psystar and that lying dog Dingle.

Meanwhile I am sitting here with $500 and need a new computer... what do I do? what do I do?

I want a mac more than anything, I would settle for a watered down mini, but I cant afford it..

Does Apple realize how many people are just not in the marekt to spend "real" money on a computer... hell, most people I know try to spread $300 out to build a machine..

Something has to give.. they could use the mini chassis without a DVD drive, put in a full size hard drive, scale back the CPU, and drop the price..

i understand their point, but its obvious they would have a stranglehold on the market if they built a cheaper mac...

the only alternative is to start making Apple branded motherboards.. wich would also be nice.. they could certify other boards too for OSX compatibility.. allthough that seems unlikely with their psystar troubles, but whatever.. all I know is MACS COST TOO DAMN MUCH... no I wont use windows ever if I have to

Nov 24, 09 - 01:46 pm Comment from: Admiral X

@tt

Jesus christ, how cheap are you? PC people need to just get over it. Sorry, Macs will never be available for the $200 you paid for whatever crap you have on your desk. I don't hear you whining that Bentleys are too expensive.

Nov 24, 09 - 01:49 pm Comment from: Think

@tt
"Something has to give.. "

Yea, buck up and save more money.

Can't we just send them to a Cuban prison?

@tt, minis aren't watered down. They're darn good. Shop the Apple Refurb store, and get yourself a Mini. If you don't want a real computer then fine, get yourself a piece of garbage. You get what you pay for.

@tt
I understand.
Me? I'd like to have a 8-core Mac Pro with a dual 30" display. But I can't afford it.
Or a iMac i7 with a second 26" LED Apple Cinema display. But Apple doesn't make a 26" LED display.
Life's a bitch.
I don't wish for things anymore that I can't afford or that are not available. Like those fanboys that are screaming for a midtower for years.
PC's are not nice comapred to Mac's (in my opinion). But if that's the only thing you can't afford: go for it and don't be ashamed.

Wow, the hatred for Psystar on this site is amazing.
A coworker of mine recently built his own Hackintosh to use as a media center at home. His out-the-door cost: about $625. And it blows the doors off of his Core 2 Duo iMac (I don't recall the exact model). On just technical specs, it's better in every way (except that it doesn't include a display)- more disk, more ram, faster processor, better graphics card, just a gazillion ports, etc.

Of course, he does not expect Apple to support his Hackintosh. But he gets the performance for video rendering that he wanted at a far better price than anything he could have bought from Apple. To get equivalent performance on an Apple product, he would have had to buy a Mac Pro costing roughly 3 times the price he paid.

To him, not having support from one source for anything that might go wrong is worth the drastic improvement in capabilities he gets for the price. He could literally build three of his Hackintoshes for the price of an equivalent performance Mac Pro.

tt: if you want a mac, pay for one. If you want something that has some of the same hardware and software elements as a mac mini but is cheaper, get an Acer Revo and put FreeBSD on it. If you want the polish Apple puts on a machine and OS, pay for it.

@tt
"Does Apple realize how many people are just not in the marekt (sic) to spend "real" money on a computer..."

I'm sure Apple is well aware of those people. They are the ones who will reduce a company's margins to nothing, and still complain that everything is "too expensive".
That's a not a market Apple wants.

".. all I know is MACS COST TOO DAMN MUCH... no I wont use windows ever if I have to"

You don't have to pay Apple anything. Not a penny. Just don't expect to use their products or whine about their prices.

If you think Apple products are too expensive, then for you, they are.
You're perfectly free to use any cheaper alternatives; say, Windows, Linux, etc..

Carry on.

Nov 24, 09 - 01:55 pm Comment from: schininis

@tt

. . . with the same money, some people . . . instead of buying a brand new Kia (or whatever). . . opt to buy a 4 year old BMW instead. Just depends on how you wanna roll.

Nov 24, 09 - 01:55 pm Comment from: BluMeNe

@tt from the Canadian apple store:

Refurbished Mac mini 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo $449.00

so quit whining or buy a refurb for under your $500 price you quoted

Nov 24, 09 - 01:56 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

tt

stop crying.

If you plan to spend rock bottom dollar on a product, don't expect the best.

Grow up and get a job, earn some money and stop expecting the rest of the world to cater to you.

I don't get everything I want on life either. Deal with it.

Nov 24, 09 - 01:59 pm Comment from: Willie G

@tt,

Well, you see, there ideology behind the pricing structure of Apple computers. The whole idea is to make machines that utilize the best possible components available. In this way, you end up with a machine that is a quality build from the start, leaving you with that solid, reliable Mac experience that you crave.

Other PC makers, when producing these 'less expensive' machines basically throw together a bunch of middle and bottom shelf components. The result is a poor build quality, a cheap feel, and a machine that will not endure.

Apple refuses to do this. They know that were they to follow suit, and sell lower priced machines with bottom shelf bits that the resulting hit on quality would only serve to tarnish their image. Surely they would enjoy some short term gains, but long-term the results would not be favorable.

So, you have $500 and want a Mac... well that won't quite get you there. So, my best advice is to save up for just a little longer.. maybe leverage Christmas as a way to ask the folks who would be buying you gifts to just kick down a little change to help fund your endeavor. Short term you will be Mac-less.. long term, you will be glad you held out.

So, think big picture... or from your current perspective.. Think Different.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:07 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

shiva105: Wow, the hatred for Psystar on this site is amazing.
A coworker of mine recently built his own Hackintosh to use as a media center at home. His out-the-door cost: about $625. And it blows the doors off of his Core 2 Duo iMac (I don't recall the exact model). On just technical specs, it's better in every way (except that it doesn't include a display)- more disk, more ram, faster processor, better graphics card, just a gazillion ports, etc.

Your Hackintosh friend "saved" money by stealing. I can "save" money when I grocery shop by stuffing things into my pockets and "forgetting" to pay as I walk out the door. No difference.

Apple spent billions of dollars to polish BSD unix and create a user friendly GUI on top of it, and continues to spend money updating it.

No one is entitled to steal someone elses hard work without paying for it.

The anger on this board comes from the fact that people here care about Apples products and wants them to continue to be worth Apples time to produce and update. That means profit, that means not having companies and people undercutting them through theft.

Theives like Psystar and your friend are the enemy of that innovation, cheerleaders like yourself are no better.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:10 pm Comment from: qka

@tt

As others have said, go refurb or go used.

I'm still writing this on a 4 1/2 year old PowerBook G4 that's still going strong. I've had commercial clients running even older Macs as vital parts of their day-to-day operations.

A Mac is an investment in quality and durability.

@tt
Hell, I'd like a new Mercedes. I too have $500 just waiting to buy one. Don't Mercedes realise how many sales they are missing out on if only they could drop their prices? I'd like an apartment overlooking Central Park too. Let me see–yes I can find another $500 for that as well.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:12 pm Comment from: Deus Ex Technica

@tt

Buy a Mac Mini on eBay for $300-$400, and use the extra money to stuff some RAM in it. --OR--

Save another $100 and buy a new Mac Mini.

Either way, you'll have a great machine that will run Snow Leopard.

shiva105:

I'm curious why your coworker didn't just get a Mini? For a media center, a refurbished bottom level mini will be < 625$, and I can attest is easily able to do all things media center.

I currently have a mini 2.0GHz with 1GB of RAM and it pushes full 1080p with no trouble. I use plex (http://www.plexapp.com) as a frontend, and a 20$ apple remote, and the whole thing works great.

I'm not saying that you can't build a cheaper "hackintosh", but this seems like a case of not using the right tool for the job. The cost of that choice is that someone overpaid (ironic since the argument is that theoretically mac's are too expensive and a hackintosh saves money) because they got the wrong tool, and they have to deal with no support, stuff likely breaking in the future, and all the headaches that just getting a real mac helps to avoid.

Just my $0.02

@shiva105
You're comparing your hobbyist friend to Psystar?
Does your friend sell these Hackintoshes, with Apple's software?
Does your friend hack Apple's software so that it runs on his/her boxes, and then profit from Apple's IP?

I'll assume, "no".
And that's the main difference between your friend, and Psystar.

Yes, it's very possible to build a Hackintosh with good specs for below what Apple might sell a Mac for--mind you, in your example, your friend still needs a monitor and software, so that cost figure you mentioned will certainly have to rise by at least a few hundred dollars--putting it close to the price of an iMac. The Hackintosh may outperform that iMac, but then again, with no support, that may very well be problematic.

The 'hatred' for Psystar does NOT grow out of the existence of a Hackintosh community. Apple itself seems fairly benevolent (at least, not malevolent) towards that community. the hatred comes from amazed disgust at the blatant attempt by Psystar to _profit_ directly as a result of leeching from Apple's research and development, while contributing nothing. Psystar, as was revealed in court, fundamentally stole OSX to install on its boxes, which it then sold--all the while taunting Apple and flaunting their highly dubious behaviour. That's where the hatred comes from.

So, in sum--Hackintosh-not-for-profit=good (at least, not bad)

Psystar-stealing-OSX-for-profit=bad, BIG bag of hurt, plus a lot of hatred.

Any amount of money will buy you a Mac.

Not the latest and greatest, but Macs work well and reliably for up to 10 years and more…

Ebay is your answer tt, for sure.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:28 pm Comment from: sparkplug

@tt

Here's hoping you get a good book or DVD on budgeting or managing your finances for Christmas.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:35 pm Comment from: thethirdshoe

$500 Referb Minis do not last long on the Apple Store.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:40 pm Comment from: Think

Little history lesson and why everyone should SHUT UP about computer prices these days.

Back in 1987:
Mac SE (all in one Mac for average user) $2898.
IBM PS/2 Model 25 (all in one PC for the average user) $2484.
Average car price $12,922.

2008:
Average car price $22,651.
If the price increase for cars was applied to computers:
iMac (average model) could would be $5,071.
Dell- all in one could be $4,347.

So two things we want and need but vastly different price trends. Computers are one of the few items that ignore inflation and constantly get cheaper in price year over year. Some years the price may stay the same but specs usually get better.

So be happy the iMac is below $2,000. It's a steal.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:40 pm Comment from: thethirdshoe

Right now a Refurbished iMac 20-inch 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo is $850.

In my country, whenever a business get itself in too much hot water they just change the name. All previous legal processes and debts are accumulated by the previous company and they just go continue with impunity.

After Apple wins, what could stop the Pedrazas to create a new company named PPSystar or StarPsy or whatever and challenge Apple again ad infinitum? Or that they move to another country and countinue their business there or enable others to do so anywhere else?

These are slimy, crooked people who haven't an ounce of shame or respect...

Nov 24, 09 - 02:43 pm Comment from: Think

Oh and just for fun, the designer crowd in 1987 would buy a Mac II for $5,500.

@tt

Apple does not want you or your business. Carry your Walmart cheapskate ass elsewhere. You are the type that Apple actively discourages.

Apple doesnt want losers, period.

@tt.
Ebay has plenty of nice used Macs for sale within your price range. And for 9 out of 10 users, a newer PPC Mac running Leopard would be a completely sufficient option. I would love to get the latest MacBook, but my 1.2 ghz G4 iBook does everything I need quite well, and I plan to get a another year out of it at least. My desktop is a new Mini I got in the refurb store for 499 and I upgraded the hard drive and RAM myself in order to economize. It was easy.

It just kills me that people don't understand that the price of a Mac is higher not because the hardware is special, but because the OS is special. That's why OS X retails for so much less compared to Windows. The hundreds of thousands of man hours that go into designing, writing and updating OS X are underwritten by earnings from Apple hardware. What don't you get about that?

Yes, you can build a box on your own cheaper, then hack it into running Mac OS X, but that's no different than pirating your OS off of bit torrent instead of buying it. You're stealing Apple's intellectual property and justifying it because you can't afford to pay for that intellectual property. You could choose a used Mac and get it honestly, but you also want the newest and fastest tech. Thus your true character is revealed: You'd rather steal the latest tech instead of compromising in favor of what you can afford. Grow up and grow so morals.

Nov 24, 09 - 02:59 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Sick 'em, Apple! Kill!

Nov 24, 09 - 03:04 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

@tt....

Don't cry. Got to craislist or eBay and find a used Mac. You can get some great deals on machines that a a couple of years old.

Folks like me and others around here, are very happy to sell our Macs to folks like you, as long as they end up in happy and appreciative homes!

Nov 24, 09 - 03:18 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

@Think... Yeah.

In 1989 I bought a Mac IIcx with 4 MB RAM for $4200.
$1000 to add another 4 MB RAM for 8 MB total
$1000 to get a SuperMac 24-bit video card for 640 x 480
$800 for an Apple 13" color monitor 640 x 480
$1000 for a 100 MB hard drive (yes 100 megabytes)
$100 for a Kensington trackball
24-bit scanners were $2500, as were 19" color monitors
I forget the price of a LaserWriter

How times have changed!

Nov 24, 09 - 03:34 pm Comment from: alansky

@tt:

There's a radical new invention you might not have heard of: Second-hand computers!

@tt
Craigslist, I have bought numerous macbooks for my buddies there for 500-600 $ that are in great shape, just be careful not to get a lemon or a stolen computer, check the serial # and have apple check it out at the genius bar before you buy and you should be in good shape. I know it sucks not having the money for one but I waited 3 years to get one and saved all I could and got a 15in macbook pro! don't give up, and don't give in to the PC, its not worth it trust me. "we don't ship junk" (Steve Jobs). Good luck

Nov 24, 09 - 04:24 pm Comment from: Lurker_PC

Maybe Psystar should consider becoming an authorized Apple distributor if they want to keep selling computers.

Nov 24, 09 - 05:07 pm Comment from: CYxodus

@Saldin

Not in America. Our laws prevent that kind of legal abuse.

One thing nobody has mentioned on this thread is what the true cost of OS X would be if Apple did license it for non-Apple hardware. It wouldn't be $29 or even $129. Apple would have to recoup the cost of development they normally get from the hardware sales. It would probably be priced AT LEAST as high as Windows 7 Ultimate (about $300 without iLife). Would tt and the hackintosh community be willing to pay the real cost of the OS? What would adding $300 for the OS to the cost a cheap PC do to it's bargain price?

Nov 24, 09 - 05:16 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

People giving advice to tt completely miss the point.

tt works for a company that thinks Macs are too expensive. You all know the company I'm talking about. Anyway, tt is paid by that company to point out to people that Macs are more expensive. tt points this out on English language blogs all over the world. tt makes good money doing this, and why not? He just had almost everyone here proving his point for him.

tt is my hero.

Not just an injunction... The referenced article missed the point that Apple is also asking for $2,120,000 in damages and also for attorney's fees.

Nov 24, 09 - 06:56 pm Comment from: Twenty Benson

Another iron-fist blow from Apple against its OS X customers.

Lock-in the user... drive down choice... drive up profits.

Hopefully the US government will step in soon to change the law and free OS X users by forcing Apple to compete in the open hardware market.

Nov 24, 09 - 07:19 pm Comment from: Predrag

Twenty Benson,

I have no doubt, should some court decide that Apple cannot use EULA to prohibit people from installing OS X on generic Intel hardware, the next day, all new Apple hardware will be built with Apple's proprietary PA Semi chips. Parts of OS X kernel will be compiled to only run on these chips. That would probably be the end of it.

As much as you may hate it, but Apple considers it their strategic interest to prevent OS X from being legally used on hardware that Apple has not built and does not support.

Macs aren't expensive to me, and I'm no Rockefeller. Every few years, they become even cheaper (especially considering inflation), so the price is never a major issue for anyone making decent wages in the US. Globally, it may be a different story (but all the complainers hail from the US).

Nov 24, 09 - 08:34 pm Comment from: Twenty Benson

@Predrag
Nor is price a major issue for me.

I would gladly pay $500 for OS X - as long as could get to run it on hardware of my choice (and that meets my needs). Even if such a broadened range of hardware has to be Apple-certified.

Love OS X
Hate Apple's tacky, limited hardware.

Cadillacs and Mercedes.

Cadillac tried to make a low cost car to sell to the "cheap customer". Anyone see any Cateras on the road today. The very few that I have seen all appeared run down and poorly cared for.

Mercedes also tried to produce a low cost car for the "cheapos". I saw the E190 many years back and wanted one (but I was just out of high school and couldn't afford one). I think it retailed for 19K, less than half of the next cheapest Mercedes. However, it too seemed to have serious problems with quality and durability as compared to the rest of the Mercedes line.

I would hate to see Apple do a similar act.

Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac et al do not try to sell to everyone. They know their market and are able to be successful. Apple, likewise, should stay on track and hopefully avoid the quickening decay of companies like Dell and Microsoft.