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Apr 02, 09 - 03:48 pm Comment from: monkeybiz

So focused on minutia. I'm focused on market adoption. It appears RIM still has mojo...

RIM reports blowout earnings... added 3.9 mln new subs (vs. 2.6 mln last quarter) (So that's almost 4 million people who bought blackberries and are customers apple won't touch for 2 years.) they shipped 7.8 mln devices in the quarter (vs. 6.7 mln last quarter). iPhone sold 4.3 mln units in the same quarter. hmmm... maybe the pie is big enough for both to play? MDN's arrogance on this subject is looking dumber and dumberer. but hey, it's all monkey business to me anyway.

monkeybiz, you've been iCal'ed.
See you later.

Hey monkeybiz,

Can you do the monkey dance, too? I hear Balmer may be looking for a Dancing with the Stars partner.

Windows Mobile has 480,000 developers!! Wow. You think that many would somehow contribute something positive to the platform.

I'm gonna do a 0.99$ fart app for all the stores

"Only a small subset of BlackBerry and Windows Mobile devices can utilize whatever their respective wannbe App Stores offer."

You can smell the FUD.

The oldest model that is supported by RIM's store is the BlackBerry Curve which shipped back in 2007--right around the same time as the iPhone. BlackBerry has generally sold more phones than Apple, so one would assume that there are more BlackBerry phones which could use the app store than there are iPhones.

Of course, mix the iPod touch in there and Apple wins hands down.

But comments like that are meant to foment FUD. "Ooh! The store may not work on your older phone! Be afraid!"

Come on, MDN--you're better than that.

Some people really do like misunderstanding the most basic facts no matter how clearly they are laid out simply before them. So here it is again how many of those RIM phones can actually access their application store? Next it will be that Nokia obviously has 20 times more customers so their Ap store is obviously the biggest and most useful too. No wonder MS can fool so many for so long.

Apple and RIM are the big dogs. Windows Mobile let the market blow by it, and will continue to shrink its market share, and Android is looking more and more like a stillborn OS. Has anyone actually seen one of these things? It's beginning to sound like the media is Ahab trying to find the great white whale, only no one can find it.

The problem RIM is going to have is that it was not designed to be a mobile computer platform like the iPhone was. RIM is having to fundamentally change what it does without losing or alienating its loyal base of corporate-centric customers.

Apr 02, 09 - 04:59 pm Comment from: Jubei

@monkeybiz

I read somewhere that RIM had infinity market share compared to Apple 3 years ago. No iPhone then.

A year later Apple introduces the iPhone, RIM still had 2000% market share advantage over Apple.

iPhone is almost two years old, what is RIM Market Share versus the iPhone? Soon in June... looks like RIM is losing share fast.

Apr 02, 09 - 05:43 pm Comment from: MrScrith

Interesting comparison for devs:

Apple:
$99 one-time initial cost
$600 mac mini dev environment (if you don't have a Mac already)
$0 per app to submit
$0 per app to update
30% per sale
Apps Usable on all devices unless using GPS (iPhone v1, iPhone 3g, iPod Touch)

WinMo:
$99 Annual cost
$299 to $799 for Visual Studio dev environment, unless you already have it.
$99 per app to submit (5 free till end of 2009)
$99 per app to update
30% per sale
Usable on subset of WinMo phones, not all.

RIM:
$200 One-time Initial Cost
$0 Dev Environment (free downloadable/open source tools)
$200 per 10 App Submits (10 free submits with initial cost)
$200 per 10 App Updates
20% per sale
Usable on subset of RIM phones, not all.

Android:
$25 One-time Initial Cost
$0 Dev Environment (free downloadable/ open source tools)
$0 Per App Submit
$0 Per App Update
30% Per Sale
Low numbers of Android phones out there.

If you consider the number of phones out there for each service, Apple wins hands down, if you consider without the number of phones out there, and that you already have a Mac for your dev environment, then Android wins by $75, if you don't have a Mac for your dev environment, then RIM comes in second, for a bit... once you get a few apps out there and a few updates per app however...

Since MDN like to report all Apple news .. funny this one missed the cut today.

Apple's iPhone, an Indian Flop, Prepares for China
BusinessWeek.

Take the most talked-about phone in recent history and launch it in one of the fastest growing cell-phone markets in the world, and you'd expect fireworks. But in India, where carriers Vodafone (VOD) and Bharti Airtel (BRTI.BO) have been offering Apple's (AAPL) iPhone since last August, unsold phones are stacking up at shops around the country. Apple won't break down sales figures by country, but a senior Airtel executive confirms analyst estimates that total official iPhone sales here have yet to touch 20,000 handsets. Vodafone, which has a lower-key advertising campaign, has sold even fewer, the analysts estimate. Even including sales on the black market, where the phone sells for half the $700 sticker price, the total only increases by an additional 15,000, according to an Indian customs official. That's puny, especially since Indian cell-phone providers have added nearly 20 million new customers since the iPhone's launch last year.

What has gone wrong for Apple in India? Nearly two years after the phone officially went on sale in the U.S., Apple's failure to gain a foothold in India's lucrative may hold lessons for its upcoming iPhone push into China. As the global recession hurts growth in the U.S. and other mature markets, Apple could use some success in these still-growing Asian giants. Sales are already slowing worldwide: The company says it has sold 30 million iPhone and iPod Touch units since their launch. On Mar. 5, JPMorgan Chase (JPM) analyst Mark Moskowitz cut his estimates for iPhone sales to 3.41 million for the January-March financial quarter, down from almost 3.85 million. "[Our] primary research contacts suggest that Mac and iPhone volumes had been trending below our prior expectations," Moskowitz wrote in a note to clients.

@jubey: you make me laugh with your stupid attempt at cleverness. the point is rim is still growing massively and this will continue even as apple's growth accelerates. it's ok to be rational.

@noodle armed choir: ical away. this quarter just shows that rim still kicks ass...and they even drew down carrier inventories. feels like the fanatics here can't see that rim is faring very well. and it's not like apple isn't going to kick ass too, it's just that you can't really believe iphone will have 100% mkt share. laughable

did you make that up? that can't be right

It's not even close...it's the Apple app store hands down the winner!

Apr 02, 09 - 07:18 pm Comment from: Jubei

@monkeybiz's twin

It's the Enterprise lock-in that RIM is relying on sustainability. Just like Microsoft with their Enterprise lock-in.

I don't make up things like MDN. It's ok to get other news really.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2009/gb2009041_266236.htm?chan=technology_technology+index+page_top+stories

@Jubei - sorry but you are wrong. RIM just stated at CTIA that their market is now 50/50 betwene corporate / consumers.

@Yawn..

After speaking with a more than a few Indian friends of mine in Tokyo (here, all are iPhone owners), it seems that the Indian cell phone infrastructure has a lot to be desired. The 3G network availability is very limited and for that reason, the best features on the iPhone cannot be used hardly at all. The Indian consumer is sophisticated, but like most people will not buy something that is not usable.

The reason for the low sales is not about the iPhones functionality. It just cannot function well on the current infrastructure. The BusinessWeek article should have brought that point up as well for balanced reporting.

I'm thinking along the lines the article points out. Consumers in all other parts of the world do not have "plans" like the states and have enjoyed moving their SIM where they please at much lower rates. A $400+ MSRP smartphone from anyone is just going to have a very limited market regardless the speed of the wireless network.

The article didn't talk much about iTouch sales and I'm sure India has a very populate wifi zone in the major cities.

I'm thinking you will see the same thing in China as Russia was basically the same. Hype and cool never trumps price.

Apr 02, 09 - 08:01 pm Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

@Yawn..

"Hype and cool never trumps price."

On one hand the iPod screws up your argument.

On the other hand, there are more Chevys then BMWs in America, but BMW ain't the ones going bankrupt.

MYTH: RIM relies on enterprise only.

FACT: 70% of new subscribers in the quarter just announced were consumers.

70% of 3.9 million is 2.7 mln new consumer subs that chose blackberries in the last quarter. Please be at least a little informed before posting dribble.

Apr 02, 09 - 10:52 pm Comment from: DogGone

All this means is there are two major players left: Apple and BB.

BB have momentum in terms of established user base and proven use in business. This means they can use their existing model for several years to come.

Apple have the uber cool factor, an app store to die for and the ability to modify the hardware and software format for the next ten years or more.

In the end Apple could clean up unless someone else gets smarter. BB may not last unless they integrate with something like Android.

All iPhones sold last quarter were smart phones.

A lot of the Blackberries sold last quarter were not smart phones.

Remember that when looking at higher Blackberry sales.

Apr 03, 09 - 11:55 am Comment from: bobchr

@ Yawn
I read that article also, it gave concrete reasons for lack of perceived acceptance of the IPhone in India which are probably legitimate. But more concrete data was not given. There was a healthy black market for the edge based IPhone before Apple started selling in that country with all the Europeans claiming how vastly superior the GPRS 3G data system is in Europe who knew? Had Apple continues the 4Gig edge based IPhone they might have been a huge success there but we'll never know now will we?

With China not allowing wifi on any cell phone this could the reason why the IPhone has not been launched there yet . The increased expense of maintaining separate models for just 2 countries is probably and expense Apple felt was not warranted. Especially if those models were more than just a software change, having the India experience behind them the next generation of IPhones will probably have the ability for country specific feature sets that may allow dynamic differentiation. So for example if a Chinese national were to bring his third generation IPhone to Europe or the States they might suddenly gain the wifi feature suppressed in the home market.

I'm sure MDN would have posted the article had someone pointed it out to them in a timely fashion. After all they posted similar stories about the IPhones lack of acceptance in Germany and Poland. The article never made any comparisons to the the consumer versions of the RIM smart phones and failed to mention if the Storm gained any traction in the Indian business market. The IPhone may take time to gain real traction in India and China but the article make no quantitative argument of what would be considered a success in India. No 3G infrastructure. and what is the what is the potential size? If Apple took 2% of the real market size for smart phones India that they have already reached their goal despite perceived numeric market acceptance.

Apr 03, 09 - 03:42 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

"With China not allowing wifi on any cell phone this could the reason why the IPhone has not been launched there yet . "

Source?

"The oldest model that is supported by RIM's store is the BlackBerry Curve which shipped back in 2007"

Actually it supports every new model from 2004 on. Not to say old models wern't sold well after 2004.