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Apple appear to be right on this one. They are entitled to enforce their copyright rights...

Feb 13, 09 - 04:27 pm Comment from: Demon

I say if you violate the terms of the software license agreement, Apple should have the right to cancel your license agreement and remove the OS from the iPhone/iPod/Computer/AppleTV.

Flame proof suit ON.

Go for it!

Bull! Apple produces a device. Those that purchase the device should be able to use it however they want to.

Feb 13, 09 - 04:31 pm Comment from: The Other Steve

Give at least the appearance that you are trying to enforce your copyright or loose it.
That's the way legal stuff works.

Feb 13, 09 - 04:39 pm Comment from: Shadowself

@Greg M

The device, as sold, **ALWAYS** includes the copyrighted software.

If you don't want to abide by the rules don't buy it.

If you still want to buy it and break those rules, don't try to claim that what you're doing is OK. It isn't.

(If you could buy an iPhone from Apple or an Apple authorized reseller *without any software* on it then you might have a point. You can't. Thus you don't.

I have a different wrinkle because I believe folks should be able to do what they want with a device that they purchase. That said, Apple should be given a wide berth in terms of what EULA provisions it sets. If they are too draconian with such agreements, they will lose customers and will adjust.

So, in this case, were I Apple, I would simply track the serial numbers of jailbroken phones and not provide future software updates for those phones.

Some may say that would result in 3rd party distribution of hacked OS updates, but unless such updates didn't include ANY Apple content, they would clearly be in violation of copyright.

Want to jailbreak? Cool. Want to run Linux on your iPhone, fine. But that door to the gilded cage locks behind you.

From the EFF article:
"Apple justifies this by claiming that opening the iPhone to independently created applications will compromise safety, security, reliability, and swing the doors wide for those who want to run pirated software. If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is."

It is not FUD. What Apple said is actually true; if you go to the torrent sites, you will find hundreds if not thousands of DRM-removed iPhone apps for downloading to be run on jailbroken phones. In fact, all the directions on how to do it can be found.

I generally am symphathetic to EFF's point of view but this article by Fred von Lohmann goes too far.

Feb 13, 09 - 04:48 pm Comment from: Harvey

EFF is asking for an exemption from the DMCA, which means they agree that they need one. The only reason they would need an exemption is because otherwise the DMCA would prohibit their activity. In other words, EFF is asking for an exemption from the purpose of the DMCA.

Stupid.

Fine, if someone buys an iPhone then they should be able to do with it as they want but, then you can't use Apples software to run other applications with.

So you end up with a Brick phone but you have to develop your own operating system, with your own unique code to run applications with.

There you have it. You bought a dead piece of hardware, nothing else.

I could agree to that. Good luck writting all the code and having it communicate with all phone companies software.

Feb 13, 09 - 04:56 pm Comment from: Bob

@mark

"if you go to the torrent sites, you will find hundreds if not thousands of DRM-removed iPhone apps"

How does this compromise safety, security, reliability of the iPhone. I'm pretty sure most people Jailbreaking their iPhone understand that they are doing so at there own risk. How does that affect me, the non-Jailbreaking user?

Feb 13, 09 - 04:57 pm Comment from: NCMacMan

Now hold on everyone...

How many of the first and some of the best iPhone apps like Trism were first written for the jailbroken environment first. Many of the developers that are producing apps started with jailbroken versions.

I do believe that Apple does need to protect its patents, but it needs to be careful. What has made the iPhone so far ahead of the competition is the app store. Maybe there can be some sort of compromise reached.

Don't shoot your lead horse when you are still only one lap ahead -- an injured horse can still lead to you lose when all your horses are still tied together.

Feb 13, 09 - 04:57 pm Comment from: LordRobin

I'll never understand the love-hate relationship hackers have with Apple. They love the iPhone so much that they just have to have it, but hate Apple for not letting them do whatever they want. I dunno, it just strikes me as greedy. If you don't like how Apple is protecting their products, why the hell would you give them your money?

------RM

I am still amazed at all the people who just say "if you don't like it, don't buy it" or something similar. I'd like to ask- who all of those who hold that opinion say the same thing if Apple put a similar policy in place on Macs? What if you could only purchase Mac OS X software from an Apple AppStore, and that Mac OS X had software in place to bar you from installing anything gotten from anywhere else? Will you still think the same thing? And why does anyone else care what some one who jailbreaks their iPhone does with it? I have no problem whatsoever with Apple stating that if you jailbreak an iPhone, you void the warranty. Fine. In fact, that's should be pretty explicitly stated and ruthlessly enforced. However, for those willing, what's the problem with letting them?

Personally, I think this has less to do with copyrights and far more to do with Apple wanting to maintain their 30% cut of any app put on an iPhone, especially with how popular the iPhone and some apps are. It's nice, easy money that Apple has to sink few resources into. After all, Apple doesn't need to develop any of the apps, yet they get to keep 30% of the cost right off the top.

Frankly, I find the positions expressed here a self-righteous load of garbage. If I buy something I can do anything with it that I damn well please. Also, in purchasing the phone (which I have not done) the purchaser is buying the software. For those who don't understand any copyright law, it wouldn't be a copyright violation (because the owner purchased the software with the phone), it might be a violation of their EULA, but it is unlikely that the EULA is enforceable anyway.

If you believe that a violation of the EULA should allow a software manufacturer to brick your product, then I got news for you, you are probably already violating various provisions of the EULA and your phones (and macs) should be bricked. Before you endorse extreme views, you might actually want to think them through. Fortunately, Apple is far smarter that most of the posters here.

Furthermore, the ignorance of Apple's business model displayed here is astonishing. APPLE IS A HARDWARE COMPANY - THEY DON'T REALLY MAKE MONEY OFF SOFTWARE. Their software is solely designed to sell the hardware. Apple does not make any money off the App store and in fact, I believe it remits all the proceeds of software sales directly to the authors and actually loses money on the app store (except that it makes the iphone more pleasant to use and increases the user experience).

@Bob

You need to read the whole Apple response. Apple said that in one case, they received over 1.6 million support calls from 10,000 jailbroken phones that had a software crash (due to being jailbroken). In two other cases, they received 2 and 2.4 million calls. (Of course, Apple could be lying!)

If these people are accepting the risk of jailbreaking, then why are they calling Apple for support?

In any case, I was pointing to the last item about piracy which is happening right now so it is clearly not FUD. At this point, developers are thinking about adding their own protection schemes (at least for those that have a web service attached) since Apple has yet to (publicly) do anything about it.

@Bob

"How does that affect me, the non-Jailbreaking user?"

Of course it doesn't affect you directly. Apple didn't say it would affect you, but it surely affects Apple and the developers who are innovating and creating software. So indirectly, the next iPhone will cost a little bit more as Apple will add in the costs of testing each release so it might work with jailbroken phones, or the costs of supporting those users when their phones don't work.

Feb 13, 09 - 05:52 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

@ shiva105,

"I think this has less to do with copyrights and far more to do with Apple wanting to maintain their 30% cut of any app put on an iPhone."

Bullsh!t.

The 30% is before costs. The costs of bandwidth, the cost of setting up and running the app store, the cost of approving the apps, the cost of arranging, transmitting and approving the app updates, the costs of verifying and charging credit cards.

It costs money to sell apps for developers. Apple takes the smallest percentage of any phone app reseller.

In order to jailbreak an iPhone you must alter Copyrighted Apple Software. When you do that you break the copyright act.

It's just that simple. You're breaking the law. If you don't like it buy a different phone.

@ shiva105
"Personally, I think this has less to do with copyrights and far more to do with Apple wanting to maintain their 30% cut of any app put on an iPhone, especially with how popular the iPhone and some apps are."

If that's the motivation, then explain to me why Apple doesn't insist on a cut of the ad revenue from those developers whose apps that are sold for free.

On average, 30% covers Apple's costs. Go compare it with any retailer (of anything).

Feb 13, 09 - 05:59 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

@ NotIPhoneUser,

"If I buy something I can do anything with it that I damn well please"

Bullsh!t,

You buy a car, you break the traffic laws, you get a fine or pay damages if caught.

You buy a iPhone, you break the copyright laws, you get a fine or pay damages if caught.

What part of the process don't you understand?

Hey, but if buy a knife, I can cut anyone up anyway I damn well please.

And if I buy a gun, I can shoot anyone anyway I damn well please.

If I buy a ticket to fly in an airplane, I can blow it up anyway I damn well please.

What insanity!

@Big Als MBP

So, in your view if you alter anything copyrighted then you are breaking the law. I guess you've never written in the margin of a book? Or, if you have, then according to you, you've violated the law you've turned yourself in to pay for your crime.

In fact, the copyright law does prohibit you from altering copyrighted material and redistributing it. You can, within the copyright law, alter it so long as you don't redistribute it (like writing in the margins of a book). However, by altering it you may very well be violating a EULA, which is likely not enforceable anyway.

@Big Als MBP

I obviously can't commit other crimes, but there is no copyright violation here (nor any other crime). When you get your car serviced, do you buy only dealer approved parts? Are you committing a crime if you buy windshield wipers or a battery at walmart that is not made by the manufacturer of your car?

Do you believe that a car manufacturer can say that you can't buy a product for their car made by someone else and not endorsed by them? Because that's what Apple is doing.

Now Apple has a very good reason for doing so, namely they control the user experience a lot more and can make certain that the software won't interfere with the phone and make certain the purchaser has a positive experience, but if a sophisticated user chooses to let themselves out of Apple's cage, that's not a violation of any law. To the extent the user messes up their iphone then obviously Apple shouldn't have to cover it under the warranty.

Feb 13, 09 - 06:56 pm Comment from: Brau

@shiva105

"I think this has less to do with copyrights and far more to do with Apple wanting to maintain their 30% cut of any app put on an iPhone"

You hit the nail on the head. Apple could care less about right, wrong, DCMA, pirating etc. It all about protecting their cashflow via control over a captive consumer.

Move to a free country where there is no kowtowing-to-the-powerful DMCA stranglehold.

I jailbroke my iPhone. I use it on T-mobile. I think that Apple puts artificial limits on the iPhone. I can now record video, change the looks of my springboard. I have video ring-tones, I can put apps in sub-folders. I have old video game emulators so I can play old-school games, I can hook my iPhone to a TV and display anything on the TV not just pictures and video, I have software on my phone that I can track it if it is lost or stolen and it can disable it remotely, etc... All of these things are doable, why doesn't Apple let these apps on Appstore? Also, as long as I pay FULL price as I did, I should be able to use it on any damned phone network I damn well please. If Apple doesn't want me to use it but on ATT then let ATT subsidize it. I know that they now do but not when I got mine. Another thing, come June the first purchasers will reach the end of their 2 year ATT commitment. What happens to them? Do they have to re-up with ATT or trash their iPhone or will Apple release them to go to T-mobile? I doubt the last... Apple should just sell the phone and ATT can put restrictions on the ones they sell.

Feb 13, 09 - 08:56 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

@ NotIPhoneUser,

You use non approved parts like a racing cam in your car's motor and you void the warranty, but we are talking breaking a copyright.

When you jailbreak an iPhone you alter the iPhone OS but you still use the rest of Apple's OS on your altered iPhone. You have no right to use Apple's IP (the rest of the OS) on the new OS you just created for your cell phone.

You could legally put a Linux cell phone OS on your new cell phone but you can't steal most of Apple's iPhone OS for your new cell phone.

Get it now?

Another thing. Apple needs to stop f###ing around with s#!+ like this and get MMS on iPhone. I hate people asking me did I get the picture they sent me and trying to explain that my f###ing $500 phone can do that. Don't get me wrong. I love Apple products. The iPhone rocks but it isn't perfect and it isn't the iPhone's fault it is Apples artificial limitations. There are 4 Macs, 3 iPhones, 1 iPod Touch, 1 iPod video in my house. I tell people everyday how much better Macs are but I'm not going to overlook Apples mistakes.
Rant over!!
Now back to your regular programming...

Feb 13, 09 - 09:09 pm Comment from: TheConfuzed1

Ridiculous.

When Apple gives me a video recorder, Copy/Paste, the ability to run apps in the background, SSH, full access to the file structure, Springboard Prefs, free tethering, Winterboard, Categories, scrobbling to Last.fm, the option to install apps not available in the app store (like NES), download YouTube videos, add email attachments, etc, I MIGHT think about not jailbreaking, but even then, I'm not sold on it.

I'm not hurting anyone in any way, and pirating apps was not my reason to jailbreak.

Feb 13, 09 - 09:13 pm Comment from: TheConfuzed1

@ Big Al's MBP--

That doesn't make any sense. Apple already set the precident by allowing us to customize our desktop OS.

This should be no different.

I think all of you are a bunch of adolescent idiots. The law is the law. Arguing about whether you agree with it is like listening to a 2 year old. Grow up and live in the real world. Your a bunch of spoiled little nerds who think the laws don't apply to you because your too smart.

I write software for a living and have done so for 20 years... if you want to steal my work because you think you are entitled ... I have a lawyer and a judge that will disagree with your juvenile opinion. Until you have been sued for copyright infringement or patent violation you are just beating your chest and pretending to be a real developer. Grow up and get a real job. People and companies have a right to their products. Buying them doesn't give you a license to do what you want with them. Unless your 2 years old and cant read the laws. So are you a 2 year old that doesn't understand the laws or are you a real software developer that respects the rights of intellectual property as it applies to copyright and patent law??

I think every reader here knows that answer!

Quote "the law is the law"

So you are saying if it is the law then just shut up and obey?
There were some really $#!++y laws that people diskbeyed until they were gotten rid of. Noone here is condoning piracy. I've got a problem with apple not giving us options. The iPhone can record video but Apple doesn't allow it. There are several examples of this type thing. Why can't my $500 cell phone record video when a free pos phone can?Well, it can, if you jailbreak it. Best of all the program is free and it works damn good. There is no excuse for this phone to be limited as it is. No video, no MMS.

Feb 14, 09 - 02:46 am Comment from: John Crawford

Well said, Bimmerdude.

Well, let me tell you a turn and real story. My husband created, patented a product that was made up of a hardware device and the software that ran the device. The product was sold as a unit and the product contained an end user license agreement.

Some of the people thought that the Software was too limiting to what they thought the device should do. So they hacked the software to add in other code to make the device operate has they wanted. For a while the device worked ok. But, the excess speed and added mechanical stresses and poor quality of the code, adding on the fact that they did not understand various aspects of exactly how the device worked on a software level, caused a problem. A big problem, the device tore itself apart while the operator was using the device. The Operator was killed and 2 other workers were injured. OSHA determined that the device was being operated well outside the parameters that it was designed for and the company had allowed the device to operate in an unsafe manner due to the altered software that ran the device.

My Husband was sued the families and the company. While the court and juries did rule in my husband's favor. The damage was done to his companies image and reputation.

Jail breaking the iPhone expose the user to an unexpectable risk that I'll explain shortly but, it also opens the door to what Apple is looking to protect itself from, which is damage to it's reputation from problems with jailbroken iPhones. Let us look at one tiny part Apple does not allow Movie taking on the iPhone. Why the CCD in the iPhone is, for the sake of argument, not rated for video capture, as an owner who has jailbroken your iPhone you install a hack that allows you to capture video, after say 32 hours of cumulative video capture your iPhones Camera fails. Who are you going to blame? Apple? Of Course. So, what are you going to do revert your iPhone to it's shipped software state and return it to Apple if it's still under Warranty. Well guess what you have just committed felony fraud.

Why is a jailbroken iPhone dangerous it's really very simple the iPhone's software contains some very complex power management and monitoring code. Many of jailbreaks so of this code, (My Husband know makes a living as a Computer Forensics Engineer and he's looked at the Jailbraking code and techniques and their aftermath). Currently the effect is minimal, it just reduces the life of the battery by a few recharging cycles. But, the power management code also controls when the battery is charged fully and turns off the recharging cycle. If that part of the Power management code in damaged overwritten, by-passed etc.. from the jailbreaking process or by an un-Apple vetted app what happen to your iPhone? It becomes a potential time bomb.
And as the hacking iPhone Jailbreakers will never take responsibility I'll spill the beans. All the jailbroken iPhones that have been bricked by iPhone updates. Apple didn't target or plan the bricking of the iPhones it was caused because of code broken by the Jailbreakers. Of course, They will always blame Apple as will the EFF. The EFF is being irresponsible in asking the Copyright Office to grant a DMCA exemption on behalf of iPhone Owners. The EFF is basically saying we want thousands of people to become potential walking bombs.

@ Petra

Fully here what you are saying. However, going round the bouy again, what possible hardware failure could come from adding MMS and Copy and Paste? And for that matter AFP, SSH etc etc.The software is effectively OS X 10.5. I have many mac and am fully aware of what can be done with this very powerful OS. The fact that Apple have decided not to allow you to enable these / add these features is amazing. It is not exactly as if there is one person out there wanting it - I think I speak for a good 50% of iPhone users when I say we would all benefit from Copy and Paste and MMS at NO detriment to the iPhone but still they don't add these features that EVERY OTHER PHONE HAS!
Granted, there are some 3rd party appz available for jailbroken phones that may expose it to a risk but I think it safe to say, this is done in many fields and yes, there is a copyright in place and an EULA to advise. However, that doesn't stop people chipping car engines, over-clocking computers, Region Hacking DVD / BluRay players etc etc. ALL of these constitute the same breaches but it is hardly likely to end in any serious event. The worst that is going to happen is a component stops working. I would imagine a very simple solution would be to say if you want to do this fine, but you void the warranty AND WE WILL KNOW. As such you are not eligible for any form of support and the onus is on the user to show why their jailbreak did not cause a hardware failure if that occurs before Apple replace a Phone.
That way, if you do jailbreak your phone - your on your own! I have and fully willing to accept that should something go wrong, it is on me to resolve the issue. As such I have never troubled Apple to fix any issues that have occurred (which there have been a few initially). Simple!
Hence Apple's somewhat on the side stance on the topic. It is not going to come down like a ton of bricks for the 5% that want to go out side the box with software but likewise, is not suddenly going to say - hey - do what you want!

I'm thinking the same sheep agreeing with Apple and going on and on in agreement have been loyally buying music, video from iTunes. This is solely about keeping people tied to the iTunes Ecosystem - period.

As long as there is media people will find a way to circumvent processes to obtain it. In this case it's not even about pirating apps. I (along with hundreds of others) jailbreak due to Apple is ignoring needs of users so USERS are just making it on their own. MMS - it's there, Video Record - check. etc. Apple has a tight control on what is approved or night and right or wrong Jailbreak doesn't have those rules.

An above has it wrong. Apple now sells hardware to feed iTunes. It's all they care about and the sole reason they make $$$ now. They are less a computer company then a new hybrid record company / hardware maker / unique OS. It's almost like when M$ got whacked for IE being installed and Netscape was losing market share. Apple is borderline dangerous with the control they are after and Jailbreak is a door out of that dictatorship.

@Shadowself

This is just like mod-ing a PS2 to play multiformat games. Sony lost the case in Australia, to jail up anyone found to supply mod-chips or burn mod-chips in.

Likewise here. You buy the machine, you shouldn't care what I do with it. Like wise with everything you buy.

Feb 14, 09 - 11:01 am Comment from: British Mac Head

I love Apple products and it's seriously all I buy and that isn't going to change however I feel they are starting to lose their way a little bit.

It's not about great products that I am referring, it's more about politics and big corporation syndrome.

They have started to do the right thing like removoing DRM from itunes purchases but with the iPhone, and I can't believe I am saying this, they are using a little too many lock in tactics.

Here's my ist of what's wrong with the iPhone.

1) Apple say what apps can and can't be on the phone
2) you can only play h264 encoded video
3) you can't bluetooth data
4) you are not allowed to tether even at a reduced baud rate.
5) still no cut and paste.
6) you can't search through lengthy web pages for words and phrases

I'm sure others have more and Apple needs to relax their grip a little.

For a start if I want to develop an App for myself to use on the iPhone I cannot do this without paying Apple $50. Has this changed? If it has then I will take that back.

To elaborate:
I usually agree with most of what Apple say and do because when you give it plenty of thought they are usually fair. But there are a few exceptions in the iPhone. (And the AppleTV) and they would be much better if they were addressed even if it means compromise.

I am on my second iPhone, don't own a generic PC (I have 6 Macs) and was completely delighted with both the original iPhone and 3G versions up until recently. Don't get me wrong. I still love my iPhone and couldn't really consider a different phone. But the lack of tethering and Bluetooth profiles for data totally suck and in my opinion the fact that you can tether almost any other modern phone with bluetooth and that Apple used to push the fact you could do this with their notebooks makes it even less reasonable for Apple to physically ban software that allows it.

Surely Apple and the networks should trust the user to not abuse the tethering feature. If the networks ban Apple this feature then why don't they ban it for all other phones?

I have a TomTom and would love to be able to use the data services with it like "TomTom buddy" but you need to use a mobile phone that has data support for bluetooth and the iPhone only has hands free and headset profiles.

If I had a basic Nokia or Sony Ericsson with limited features I could do this but with my amazing iPhone I can't. This is why I feel jailbreaking is justified. There shouldn't be a jail in the first place! It just doesn't seem very Apple like to force a lock-in like this. It's more of a Microsoft approach if you ask me.

The iPhone has so much power and so many advanced features but what's the point when you're not free to use features that are classed as standard functionality on other phones.

Why can't we do text searches, why can't we have basic tethering capabilities, even bandwidth throttled tethering would be better than nothing but to say "sorry, no you can't tether at all!" is unreasonable.

How about copy and paste?

Apple need to allow a few more things to open up on the iPhone and they need to stop concentrating on things like MS exchange functionality and mobile me. It never used to be all about profit with Apple but it seems that it's starting to get that way now. What's next? Cutting corners to make a bigger profit?

Until now I never Jailbroke my iPhone but I am considering it just to use some of these features.

A good friend of mine has jailbroken his iPhone and he said it is more like carrying around a pocket computer than it ever was before he jailbroke his and the occasional upload of content to his website by tethering his MBP to his iPhone has given him the real freedom of a mobile office.

I'd back Apple to the core usually but I am not so closed minded to not see when they occasionally "take the piss". They used to say that they were in business to make the best designed products they could make but since they have been a content provider there is a little bit too much "lock-in" for my liking.

Also it's embarrassing when a friend wants to bluetooth me either a movie clip or a few pics and I have to tell him the iPhone has the physical capability for that but Apple don't allow it! And it probably won't play the movie anyway unless it's h264 encoded. All I get is "how do you live with that?" or, "doubt I'll get one then!". How many people have not bothered to get one because of these "missing" features?

Hopefully if people keep putting the pressure on then Apple, will open up a few more things like bluetooth and tethering on the iPhone and there would be no justification to jailbreak any more.

But until then I say it's justified to jailbreak your own iPhone. Even if it becomes illegal to do so.

Don't let Apple become the next Microsoft.

People dont seem to understand licensing. Buying a product doesn't have much to do with licensing. If you buy a cd the music is licensed to you, you cannot make all the copies you want to pass out in your neighborhood. You cannot even sample the cd to make recognizable music from, the same principle. Licensing rights protect intellectual property from getting ripped off. Disassembling software code is not included in your license. Most forums abide by this, and will ban you for simply suggesting how to do this. It is infringement. People forget they buy a FINAL product and not every piece of technology implemented. Companies sell you products cheap by offsetting the cost via bulk. If anyone creates custom software themselves, or has it made for thousands of dollars in development, and they own all rights, they can do whatever they want, but to spend $200 and expect to own all the technology in an iphone is foolish. For private use, when only you knows, is different from a COMPANY selling it, or a mass distributed hack for free even. There is no entitlement in 9/10 of the world, get over it.

Let me see if I get this right. I buy it and possess it yet I can't do with it what I want? The copyright office has already granted one exemption which is due to expire in November. Have the parameters of the argument changed since the last time. Is it illegal to take your phone to whatever service you want? When it all comes down to the telecommunications involved, it is still a phone. The OS is not what makes the phone a phone. That is what this device is, is it not? At least that is what I think they licensed it as. You would think that the FCC would have explained the implications of the disable through update scenario. So what if my phone has a flashy gui or way of navigating. It is a phone! Its function is to connect me to the person I am dialing. So what if it can connect to the internet or act as a radio or iPod. Just because someone wants to create a monopoly doesn't mean they should hide behind a cloak of DRM. Oh that is right DRM is what music companies like to hide behind. It is now the DMCA. It was a sad day when Apple Inc chose to limit its ability to be marketed to just one outlet......ATT

Apple is not just trying to sell hardware. They are trying to sell the whole ecosystem.

If software is to remain cheap and plentiful (via happy developers), it can't be allowed to be widely pirated. The more software is pirated, the more the legitimate copies cost.

Software can cost $.99 only when it is unlikely to be pirated. If piracy is widespread through jailbroken iPhones, then software costs to the LEGITIMATE owners (me) will go up. This will lessen the iPhone value proposition. Make it less compelling.

@GizmoDan
Waxing philosophical doesn't change the fact that the hardware is a phone. The purpose for the exemption I believe was that you are not in the right as a company to dictate how your merchandise is used or with whom it is used after the point of sale.
It is first and foremost a phone.

The more I hear and read about this the less likely I'll be to buy an iPhone.

No One Really Cares iWorker.
This is still a free market where you can go and buy your own version of CE, ME, NT or whatever Windows you want.

Feb 16, 09 - 07:13 am Comment from: Hm...

Mayhaps one should consider the facts:
1. iPhone hardware is purchased
2. iPhone software is licensed, not purchased
3. The DMCA prohibits "cracking" encryption to circumvent software locks

Does anyone remember Lexmark's use of the DMCA to put a small ink/toner cartridge maker out of business? Lexmark used a little tiny bit of encryption in their cartridges.

Irrespective of anyone's opinion on the validity of Apple's claim, the DMCA is law—an obviously bad law—but still current US law.

How's this for an idea:

Why doesn't apple allow people who deplore jailbreaking their iPhone (or buying one that came jailbroken) to rejoin the herds and actually un-jailbreaking it.

For a fee, obviously, e.g., the price difference between a jailbroken and official iPhone.

I bet a lot of jailbroken iPhone owners would actually go for this.

Feb 16, 09 - 09:29 am Comment from: jtc

Seeing how horrid T-Mobile is... I dont think Apple would offer their phone to them.. though they wouldn't have to mod much since they also use a sim card.... If they really wanted some ground.. they'd go to verizon again and maybe if they are smart they would accept the iPhone. They could even go to Sprint.. assuming Sprint doesn't go bankrupt or get bought out. And oddly.. they have probably the best data connection I've seen as far as speeds. I know I'll never go to T-Mobile again... we had 30 phones from them... returned them all after 2 weeks use and went to AT&T;.. which rocks and I was able to get an iPhone on the company plan :D

Feb 16, 09 - 02:25 pm Comment from: HazMatt

I only jailbreak my iPhone to get Cycorder (video recorder).

Feb 16, 09 - 02:44 pm Comment from: Demon

If Apple sold a completely unlocked iPhone everyone that is upset now would still be unhappy because, it would cost a lot more because it would not be a subsidized by the carrier..

Yes, the iPhone is missing some features in comparison to some other phones and yes, I'm sure some of that is a result of what AT&T;didn't want the iPhone to do because of the potential impact on it's networks. Apple has slowly added features and tweaked features to be more network and user friendly.

One thing to keep in mind is the iPhone is still a new product for Apple. New iPhone customers are still swelling carrier's (AT&T;) ranks and the carriers are benefiting even in the slower economy. So, Apple is gaining a huge amount of respect, envy, and imitation around the cell phone industry. Know the driver of the industry is no longer Nokia, or even the carriers. Apple is now clearly the Driver of the cell phone industry. When the dust settles it will be Apple that sets feature trends and how fast new technologies are adopted worldwide. The iPhone and Apple will drive the World Cell phone industry to a single deployed standard for signal types. The rest of the industry will climb into the back seat and follow along for the ride fighting over the scraps. This is the vision that RIM, Nokia, Sprint and some other fear but, they are going to follow right along anyway for the bigger fear which is getting left far behind and on the sideline.

@Hm...
Your argument sounds like the one made by music companies. I happen to believe there is a good reason why every phone has to be able to at least let you make emergency calls. Because every phone no matter how many bells and whistles it has to go with it must serve its primary function.
What I think will be interesting soon is that the first two year agreements will be coming to an end. Will Apple release its own unlock version if owners choose to switch carriers. By law they cannot forbid it. That may have been in the mind of the copyright office when they granted the exemption until November of this year. If Apple refuses and nothing changes. The scenario for an extension exists because Apple would be choosing to dictate how your merchandise is used after the point of sale and contract. You know, like a monopoly.

ople,

Now, now no reason to get aggressive just because someone expresses an opinion. I just don't like a situation where you can only go to one to one shop to buy software. Likewise I don't like the windows model as well.

Gee whiz, I guess that makes me an unhappy consumer that will probably bypass this technology completely and just use a simple cell phone to make calls. Don't be so narrow-minded that because I don't like this particular business model that I'll chose one that I don't like either.

You see, some of use don't have to be on-line all the time. Likewise some don't have to have the latest toy to be satisfied in our lives. It just means that not everyone is the same.

Look at what I just did. I managed to explain myself in four paragraphs without being insulting. I guess that means I'm different from you.

iworker
My apologies for offending you. Sometimes passion overrides common sense. Thank you for balance.