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Apr 09, 08 - 03:15 pm Comment from: Crabs

First?
Anyway, iChat on Windows inevitable? I dunno...

That would be great if I could actually get my iChat 4 to work. I've followed every tip and still bombs out. Three of us in different locations cannot get it to work.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:23 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

I can't wait to make video calls with the camera on the wrong side of my iPhone. A complex system of mirrors will come in handy.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:23 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Oops!

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/776/285964.JPG

iChat for me is a hit or miss application. It seems so dependent on having a pretty high speed link that a number of hotels networks just won't support it. In fact, around the world I have more misses than hits.
Therefore unless this balance improves somewhat, I am afraid more people (PC people) will be pissed rather than happy with Apple.

But when ioChat works....its a beautuful thing.

I hate not being able to edit my posts....shouldn't write without my glasses

Apr 09, 08 - 03:37 pm Comment from: Babakool

I prefer a "complex system of mirrors and trained dogs' as in Donald Barthelme's 'Snow White'.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:37 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

No kiodding.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:38 pm Comment from: Jubei

Wait a min. Wasn't this done already as a concept during the Mac Hack something event? I can't remember the name exactly, but I'll have to do a search. The part attached to the top of the iPhone and little mirrors do the rest.

I iChat with my Mom in another town via my Macbook and her iMac. She is on DSL lite and I am on DSL medium. It works pretty good at that bandwidth, but not super. Never tried three way.
If they can fit the iSight into the thin Macbook screen, then hopefully they could fit it into an iPhone regardless of how it might suck the battery life. Still waiting for my Jetson iChat wristwatch with iPod remote.
Timex does have a nice but pricey iPod controller watch.

T-Mobile had a phone that did this: it used VoIP when near a WiFi access point, then seamlessly switched to the cell network when the WiFi signal became too weak. The idea was that phoning from home your phone wouldn't require the cell network.

I doubt AT&T;would be happy with this, although they might allow it if it were restricted to switching between AT&T;cellular and AT&T;broadband.

C|Net Article about T-Mobile Phone

Apr 09, 08 - 03:41 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Jubei

Yes, this is true, though I've forgotten the name of it as well. The mirror I saw was a big klunky thing, though, and not ready for prime time.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:42 pm Comment from: Predrag

He lost me with "If Apple brings iChat to Windows...". This tells me this guy did very little research. There is this software alled AIM (AOL instant Messenger), which has been "iChat for Windows" since the appearance of iChat (for Mac). IChat operates on AIM networks, which have existed before Mac OS X and iChat concept. To anyone who has every tried AIM (and I had to, in order to communicate back to my home Mac via iChat), AIM is a high-ranking contender for the worst monstrosity ever written for Windows, and version after version, it gets worse.

As for iChat not working for some, unlike Skype (which can wiggle itself almost through any firewall, even using TCP on port 80 if necessary), iChat requires UDP, with plenty of open ports in order to allow A/V connection. Once the ports are open, though, it is much more robust, stable, smooth and bandwidth-conscious than Skype.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, to see Skype for the iPhone (the first version, without the dual camera setup). Too great of a temptation to be passed up Especially since they already have a Mac version; how hard will it be to transcode it, considering that the core OS is more-or-less the same?

Apr 09, 08 - 03:43 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Rob Menke

I doubt AT&T;would have anything to say about it if it wasn't on their network. The auto-switching part might be dicey, but I see no reason that WiFi transactions are any of AT&T;'s business.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:46 pm Comment from: UltraVisitor

How on Earth are you going to do video conferencing over an iPhone? The display and camera are on opposite sides.

Did Apple secretly put a second camera on the front of the iPhone that no one knows about?

Apr 09, 08 - 03:50 pm Comment from: Predrag

Oh, and another thing on iChat; it really requires very little bandwidth. I was in fact able to establish an A/V connection on a DIALUP (!!!). It didn't last long, but I saw the remote person (about 1-2 frames per second), and i heard them rather well (no drop-outs). They heard me, but my iSight wasn't able to transmit (33.6kbps is just not enough). I consistently communicate with family in Belgrade, Serbia, with ADSL at 128kbps up/1mbps down. Their image is fluit (5-10fps), audio is uninterrupted. My connection is RoadRunner cable (about 2.5Mbps down/700kbps up) Obviously, my image on their screen is 15fps and clear, as is audio. On many occasions, though, I can see their throughput dynamically drop (during a conversation) to about 40kbps (practically dialup) and it would continue without interruption. I must say, it seems that iChat is most remarkable, robust a/v communication protocol out there.

I have tried 3-way and 4-way iChat, between NYC, Belgrade, Bruxelles (Belgium) and Stockholm (Sweden). Everyone had broadband (faster than mine, except for Belgrade) and everyone had smooth image and audio. When it works, it works beautifully!

karrde97,

Turn off Internet Sharing. This is a known problem.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6393041�

@karrde97
Had the same problem. You need to up your Quicktime streaming speed in Sys. Prefs. It throttles the resolution down for people who have sucky internet connections.

Apr 09, 08 - 03:58 pm Comment from: JAYGEE

Why bother with VoIP? You still have to pay a monthly bill. Get your moneys worth, that's what I say!

I WAS having problems with iChat 4, but since I disabled internet sharing, it has been working without any problems for me. Previously I tried everything in the apple support forums, but this one simple tip made it work for me. Not a big deal as I do not use the airport for sharing internet at home...

yeah iChat on Windows definitely inevitible...perhaps ATT will offer VOIP credits/plans for calling landlines. which would also allow ATT to get revenue from iPod Touch users as well.

Apr 09, 08 - 04:19 pm Comment from: qka

@C1

But do all those lamps yield flattering light?

Apr 09, 08 - 04:28 pm Comment from: Darkness

@ChrissyOne...

Not only will AT&T;not care about VoIP on wireless, they should cheer this option. Thanks to service contracts you're paying them anyway, and you're not using their network. Sure, they might not get you with overage charges, but given rollover minutes and free nights and weekends they're not going to get many of those anyway.

No question, VoIP will be great on the iPhone.

Maybe Kevin Rose was right about the camera on both sides.

Apr 09, 08 - 04:54 pm Comment from: Predrag

Goople,

IChat for Windows already exists (and has existed for last 4 years at least); it is called AIM. It is owned by AOL (the company that owns the network protocols that iChat uses), so there is a very fat (or is it slim) chance that Apple will ever bother (or dare) developing something that already exists, as horrific and dreadful as AIM is (and believe me, it is just ghastly; I've used it many times over the years). The only one feature Windows users are missing on AIM, vs. iChat on Mac, is four-way video-conferencing. Not worth the effort for Apple, I think.

Apr 09, 08 - 04:58 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Darkness

Totally. Speaking of Rollover, I'm on the $79 iPhone plan, and I think I currently have roughly 17 trillion rollover minutes. So yeah, I don't think they'll miss my overages. Considering that so many people use their iPhones for everything BUT calls, I think this might represent a lot of customers.
The best thing about VOIP for me will be the signal - at my house, the network is OK, but not great, and sometimes I have problems in certain places in my house.
No problems with the Airport Extreme signal, though.

Apr 09, 08 - 04:59 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ qka

It might be flattening, if you stand in front of it too long!

Apr 09, 08 - 05:18 pm Comment from: Dave H

CUPC for iPhone would get Apple into the enterprise market in a second. I hope Apple are talking to Cisco.

@Pedrag
The problem with AIM is exactly as you mentioned. Its not a good app. Also there's a branding/marketing challenge. It's easier to explain that iChat is everywhere, than to try to have the masses connect the dots with AIM.

Also there's a problem overseas, outside of the U.S. most European people I deal with seem to be MSN focused. I would suspect that depending on AIM for a worldwide infrastructure would be less than desirable for SJ.

I think he will heavily market iChat for Windows, and then use it as mindshare leverage (iChat+iPhone/iPod touch) to sell more mobile devices.

...and iChat will be "everywhere" except on Nokia devices lol.

Apr 09, 08 - 06:51 pm Comment from: Predrag

While I can see where you're going with iChat for Windows, I just can't see AOL being very happy (or even amused) with Apple developing a (free) application that does exactly what their own application does, on their own networks.

Then again, Steve Jobs was able to convince music labels to sell songs for $1 apiece, so nothing is impossible. He just might be able to coax AOL into giving up on that AIM (somewhat of a cash cow, with the extreme advertising everywhere), for a (much) greater market share in the IM space. If this does happen, though, it would be somewhat strange, having Apple's software, on Windows, Mac and iPhone, using AOL's proprietary instant messaging protocol (AIM). What exactly would be AOL's benefit, providing back-end technology (ldap, authentication, negotiation, etc) for competitor's front end software?

Apple's decision early on to use AIM protocols for iChat was based on the fact that AIM was (at the time, and apparently still is) the most popular IM protocol (in the US, as well as in the world). By having people create their iChat accounts, he made sure they'll be able to immediately communicate with all of their friends on AOL (practically half of the online US population at the time). AOL was quite receptive then; it is a question, though whether they would be that receptive to an Apple iChat client for Windows.

. . . I think a two way with your mom is bad enough, good sir.

@Predrag...I guess what you are saying that my erratic hotel connection problems is probably due to their ISP not having key ports open (mainly video as in many case audio will work).
The reason I said bandwidth was because in a few cases when I could not connect, a message came up on my screen and said that there was insufficient bandwidth.

Apr 09, 08 - 07:32 pm Comment from: Predrag

I've seen this bandwidth message myself as well; usually, there was plenty of bandwidth to go around (you can always check at http://www.bandwidthplace.com). In most cases, it was due to closed ports, which many hotels tend to close on their routers.

For the International traveler, VoIP would be an incredibly valuable addition. I don't own an iPhone, but if it supported VoIP, I'd definitely be in the market. I would save literally hundreds on calls overseas.

Why do that when you can let Skype do that job for you

@Predrag

You need to try and keep up with the rumors and speculation. Here's why there could be a version of iChat coming to windows.

The current rumor is that iPhone 2 will have a 2nd front facing camera and will do video calls (ichat) and that these can be done iPhone to iPhone, iPhone to mac and iPhone to Apple TV and vice versa,

Think about this, if true windows using iPhone owners - which is most iPhone users, will also need to video chat from iPhone to PC and vice versa.

et voila, this is why there could be a pc version of iChat coming to the pc

My iChat was very hit and miss til I changed the port (iChat prefs/Accounts/Server Settings/Port - make changes offline) from 5190 to 443. It made all the difference.

Apr 10, 08 - 08:38 am Comment from: Predrag

To hari Seldon,

It seems like you haven't read my previous posts. My point is, there already is an iChat for Windows and it is called AIM. As I had said, I'm not sure AOL will be happy if someone else (say, Apple) goes ahead and releases an instant messaging / videoconferencing client that does exactly as their own AIM does, plus a bit more (four-way videoconferencing).

On the other hand, There is that OpenAIM project, where AOL is offering free APIs for AIM to anyone who wants to build components that interact with AIM protocols. This includes client software as well.

Still, we'll have to see if Jobs can make that deal with AOL for Apple's own native Windows client (i.e. iChat for Windows). It a looks like the early iPod on Windows; at the time, MusicMatch was the software for managing iPod music library; soon enough, they developed iTunes for Windows. However, there, they didn't work on anybody else's property; here, they have AOL's IM protocols to talk to. As I said, AOL might not be too happy about this.

Hum... Here is the thing... I really hope that APPLE is actually working on a video iPhone for video conference...
People have been using this for ages in Japan and Europe, and we still don't have it in America? Who knew? I thought the biggest / baddest country in the world was up-to-date... I guess it ain't afterall...

Let me say this: Communication in America is at a Third-World country state...

HELP US APPLE...

Apr 10, 08 - 10:06 am Comment from: Predrag

I have to agree with ポール. For various reasons, US is about four years behind the rest of the world. I have family in Serbia (for those with short memory, US bombed it into the stone age in '99). Still, their mobile telephony has been 3G for past three years. Last year, the coverage was over 90% of the country (including the boondocks!), and large percentage of people were using their phones for video-conferencing. Yet, in the US, this is still the sci-fi...

Luckily for Americans, there is Apple...