MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Oct 10, 08 - 04:31 pm Comment from: JadisOne

I backed the truck up at around 87 and some change and am looking forward to making a decent profit in time for Christmas so that I can treat myself to some new Apple goodies.

Oct 10, 08 - 04:31 pm Comment from: KingMel

Talk about volatility in the market. A roller coaster down 600 points and then back up in one day.

Oct 10, 08 - 04:31 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

This is the price of the STOCK we're talking about, here, not the actual value of the company. Apple stock is notoriously NUTSY and indicative of not very much.

AAPL seems to be recovering pretty fast! hopefully it'll go be over 100 soon, the stock is so cheap now (like most other stocks). if only i had more $ to buy shares lol..

I backed the truck up at around 87 and some change and am looking forward to making a decent profit in time for Christmas so that I can treat myself to some new Apple goodies.

Don't forget to give Uncle Sam and your broker their cut of it as well.

Oct 10, 08 - 09:02 pm Comment from: iDon't

What turn-around? We all gonna DIE!!!!

Oct 10, 08 - 11:02 pm Comment from: MacBill

Who cares what the analysts say... they have no idea what they're talking about at all. Upgrades, downgrades, upgrades, downgrades... their advice is just as volatile as the market itself, and isn't even based on a company's true fundamentals anyways.

I guess ipoddailey news is a misnomer!

Oct 11, 08 - 12:02 am Comment from: BC Kelly

Remember over the years how so many criticized Apple for stuffing money under the mattress ?


Seems it went something like


No Company in this Modern Economy should pile up cash like that.

Apple needs to buy something.

Spend that capital to increase profits.

Getting only Savings Account Interest is hurting Apple.

etc etc etc



That extra $20+ Billion for a rainy day ?

Looking real smart now - might be a Hurricane coming.


Think Different™




BC

Apple needs to buy something.

My favorite: Apple should build cars!

I wouldn't want to be an auto maker or dealer over the next few years. It's about the only area that has a darker pall than Wall Street.

In the Really Old Days, you saved during the feast so you could survive the inevitable famine. Contrast to the modern logic of "OMG, money! We gotta blow it all on SOMETHING!".

Though saving might have chafed some investors, Apple was very wise here.

"That extra $20+ Billion for a rainy day ?"

Not cash, short term investments. Lets see how big that 20 billion is on the next 10-Q.

"Getting only Savings Account Interest is hurting Apple."

It's not cash in savings accounts, sorry, it's short term investments of the kind that used to be able to be quickly converted into cash.

"Apple was very wise here."

Maybe, maybe not, it really depends what they were holding. Lets see just how big the investment losses are.

Oct 11, 08 - 06:39 am Comment from: BC Kelly

To Fear and Greed

You speak with Great Authority like you could be someone who had intimate understanding and faith in the Market - A Player. And now you're possibly going through some kind of religious conversion ?

Sorry for your potential loss.

You can parse the precise meaning of the words I've used, but the concept and philosophy behind them is the point. And that point is valid.

Apple, and Steve Jobs, did not bite into the 'Financial Apple' dangling before the masses these last number of years.

Be it short term investments, or interest accumulating at the rate of a Grandmother's savings account - Apple squirreled it away. And "it" does have value, the "liquid/cash" kind, still today, and that "value" will only increase going into the precarious future we may face.

Apple - right down to the tradition of its very conservative financial guidance - has always been a very unique Company, and that should now be greatly amplified when compared to all the other Companies and Institutions who refused to Think Different™



Thank You
BC Kelly
Tallahassee Fla

Oct 11, 08 - 07:22 am Comment from: BC Kelly

p.s.

Or try it this way:


Apple - aka Steve Jobs - is not out to merely "make a profit"

Do Good Business - profit will follow

Apple and Steve are after something greater than money:

Change the World™

" And "it" does have value, the "liquid/cash" kind, "

Sure BC. Good luck selling the commercial paper you're holding to anyone today without losing money. If you wait, and the company you've loaned to is good for the money, you'll get it back. but what previously would have been described as liquid and a cash equivalent is not today.

"value" will only increase going into the precarious future we may face.

What you don't understand is that the words Credit Freeze and the way that it applies to Apple's short term "Cash" assets?

What do you not get about the fact that the government is buying this short term paper today from issuers because the market for it has dried up? Apple may wish to access this "Cash" but there's no buyers to give them Cash for what they hold.

Shesh.

As to markets, they go up, they go down, sometimes they even crash. You can make money either way.

"Apple needs to buy something.

My favorite: Apple should build cars!"

Yes, the iCar would come standard with a 8 track player (Combo Drive). Now, you just can't order one with a CD, you have to upgrade to the next model to get a CD. So if you'd like a CD player, you must also get Power Windows and Seats, 2.6 Liter engine, etc..

The economy 4 seat car starts at $78,000. It comes only in White. Black models are available starting at only $86,999.

<i>it really depends what they were holding. Lets see just how big the investment losses are.<i>

Well, a potentially-recoverable investment holding beats money thrown into a black hole any day.

At least Apple didn't put the money into buying Disney. Or Dell. Or entering the automotive business (which they could easily do with GM and Ford's current market cap).

"Well, a potentially-recoverable investment holding beats money thrown into a black hole any day. "

It does, But how "Potentially recoverable" is holding Lehman Brothers debt? And "Cash" you now have to wait up to a year to get back or take a big loss to get at earlier is no longer a cash equivalent

As I said, it all depends just what they are holding how bad this is going to be for them (and for anyone else in the same situation of sitting on a lot of previously liquid investments).

Oct 11, 08 - 01:44 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

Fear and Greed

You've been describing a lot of scenarios which may or may not be correct

Do you know, exactly and precisely, the definition of this $20+ Billion Apple has in "cash" ?

Or just guessing ?

Oct 11, 08 - 07:48 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

"Economics is just weather forecasting with money"

Nathan Urbaniak



Nathan is a college kid I know who says he made that up all on his own.

Since I can't find anyone else selling it - guess I'll buy it from him.



All I know about Economics is this:


Are +'s and -'s

At End of The Day

Better have more +'s than -'s


For years Apple has been "saving" +'s

Real +'s

Not "weather forecasted" +'s




Someone who appear$ to understand these matter$

And explains them in a way that is $imple and Elegant™

George $oros

Here's video of his visit last night with Bill Moyers

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html

"Do you know, exactly and precisely, the definition of this $20+ Billion Apple has in "cash" ?"

To the last holding, no, but in general terms, to the extent that Apple discloses what they hold, yes.

In round terms, 9 billion cash and cash equivalents (read that as things, pre credit freeze, that you were able to sell quickly at zero loss to raise cash). 11 billion in short term investments.

So what are these? They are treasuries, commercial paper, certificates of deposit, time deposits, and corporate
securities issued by both US and foreign companies. 18 billion matures within a year, 2 billion matures up to 5yrs from now.

Oct 13, 08 - 04:04 am Comment from: BC Kelly

sandbox here too ?

Oct 13, 08 - 04:05 am Comment from: BC Kelly

k, got it ... so use packets





F and G - Thanks

"Zero Loss" appears the key phrase, yes ?

Which is what we get stuffing it in a mattress, yes ?

Oct 13, 08 - 04:20 am Comment from: BC Kelly

busted again ?

""Zero Loss" appears the key phrase, yes ?"

No, "pre credit freeze" is the key phrase.

Right now they have to be holding some debt instruments that just won't get repaid, and others that can't be sold quickly any more without a substantial loss.

So my main point was not that Apple won't get most of it's money back if it holds things to maturity, but rather that what Apple lists as "Cash and Cash Equivalents" on it's balance sheet is not really cash and in today's market much of it can't be turned back into cash quickly without a loss.

BTW: As I noted, this is the same for any other company in a similar situation, so don't take this as some insult of your sacred cow Apple.

"Which is what we get stuffing it in a mattress, yes ?"

A common misconception. Cash stuffed in a mattress loses value due to inflation, as does any investment whose rate of return is less than inflation. This can be a small loss per year if you live in the USA, or a large one if you live in Zimbabwe. Many people think if you have a $100 bill 10 years ago and still have it now, you haven't lost anything. That's wrong. What you have now is about a $80 bill.

Oct 13, 08 - 01:08 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

F and G

Once I'm able to post again will address you

Oct 13, 08 - 01:25 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

MDN you killing me

"Once I'm able to post again will address you"

Whatever. My feeling any civil duty to try to educate your ignorant ass is wearing thin.