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Looks like Apple is ready to kick some serious PC asses in the near future...

Fooey!!

Sweet. And interesting!

well, at least my wife won't have to buy a PC just to run AutoCad

So this means that there is something exciting in the Apple pipeline. As always, time will show and tell.

You think this will be like Classic?
Included in OS X for the few who need to suffer it until eventually, when everyone's jumped on board the world's most advanced OS, it'll be phased out...
The future looks bright

Is Dvorak right..???

In a sea of generic PC boxes, that good looking Apple machine runs everything and comes with Mac OS-X plus a pile of great software.

No other manufacturer has that feature set and it would be worth paying more for.

You know i love apple and everything. I've had one for as long as i have used computers. This looks a little fishy to me. I hope all the (stupid, crazy) rumors of Apple giving up on Mac OS. I would hate to have to use Windows. I hope that it means they are coming up with a way to run Windows applications natively WITHOUT Windows. That would be great.

Peter J. "well, at least my wife won't have to buy a PC just to run AutoCad"

But she has to buy a copy of Windows OS...

Yea, hopefully, do an emulator, until no one wants to run Windows again... .

Twinkie,

Keep an eye on Darwine , which has been progressing at a feverish pace for the past year. It's now at v 0.9.10 developer's preview level. An official 1.0 release can't be too far away.

The last thing I want to do is put Windows on my Mac.

http://darwine.opendarwin.org//


MDN MW = will

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Apple is going to digest Windows from the inside like NeXT did to Apple. Like Pixar will do to Disney.

It's just silly to think that Apple is giving up on Mac OS. If for no other reason, there would be mass resignation of Apple employees the day of the announcement. And a lot of bad will.

If this comes to pass, why will developers feel any need to develop on OSX? Adobe, or others, will say, "You can run the Windows version on a Mac now, why should we bother (to make an OSX version)?"

If the performance is that good, no one will develop for the Mac anymore.

This could shoot Apple in the foot. Right?

Good News for those who want to integrate both platforms into one (the corporate types).

In the meantime, I'll remain a one OS / one computer kind of guy.

Let's be realistic here, Apple has worked too hard to throw OSX down the toilet, it still has a ton of untapped potential, and I do think the switch to Intel is just the first phase of demonstrating OSX's unique and powerful features and capabilities, now that it exists on Intel hardware, and Apple has fewer worries about CPU supply shortages, and has more legroom to entice developers to OSX, I think we will really see OSX sparkle. I am sure now with access to faster hardware Apple will have more freedom to do the things with OSX they've always wanted to do, but were too restrained to do in the past. I think OSX's future looks very bright, especially with the complexity of windows starting to drag the whole operating system down under its own weight.I also predict that the support for windows is really only a crutch, an attempt to lure Windows users to the mac platform, by saying "see we run all your applications". Once people are on the mac platform for the first time, and see that these same apps work on OSX and work better, I do think Microsoft will lose the death grip its held over people in the past. Only time will tell...

Not a chance.

Apple has not forgotten that IBM built Windows compatibility into OS/2.

All that happened is people stopped developing for OS/2.

Nothing to see here...

Unless I missed something, I don't think anyone is saying that Apple is going to get rid of Mac OS in favor of Windows. That would be corporate suicide. We all know that while Mac boxes are great, it's really the OS that matters.

I find humor in people like this touting rumors. "We've heard rumors that...". The Mac news/rumor community is so incestuous that one rumor can start on one site and be all over the map in 24 hours. I could make a fake rumor about the new banana colored triangular screened iMac coming out, send it to MacRumors, and watch it propogate itself all day. Eventually the "analysts" would tout the rumor as being seen on several web sites.

There is NO WAY that Apple is going to drop OS X. The software that Steve practically built himself (well not all by himself) - in favor of Windows? Forget it.

I believe that ever since Mr. Jobs returned back to Apple he has had a plan to move away from the PPC and on to the Intel chip. Remember NeXt ran on Intel and NOT the PPC chip first. He's becoming hardware universal.

Level the playing field and then overtake Windows. It's all been happening since the iMac.

If an Apple can run Windows apps without Windows then Microsoft Windows is going to be finished. First maybe in emulation or whatever they want to do. Some people might hang on, but would you if you didn't have to? A chance to be virus free? But mostly FREE of Microsoft.

Get vendors to tweak their apps for X and then good-bye Microsoft Windows.

Bill Gates and Ballimer must be crapping in their pants right now. Especially since they can't get their OS out of the door. Clearly they DON'T have a plan.

There is a Tsunami coming to Redmond in the shape of an Apple.

MDN magic word - JUSTICE

The fact that some people think this means Apple is giving up on OS X, and/or think that this will influence developers (like Adobe!!!!) to stop OS X support just goes to show how idiotic and fearful people can be. Get a freakin grip.

" . . . it means that Apple has now committed to Windows-based performance testing, and it will influence industry-standard testing methodologies going forward, possibly including Mac OS X testing.

That's pretty much it, folks.

apple 1984 asks: “If this comes to pass, why will developers feel any need to develop on OSX? Adobe, or others, will say, "You can run the Windows version on a Mac now, why should we bother (to make an OSX version)?"”

Because Mac users won’t stand for a shitty interface. Native MacOS X App’s will therefore always have a competitive advantage.

More than likely, Apple is making this move because there is some basis in fact for the Dharma rumor.

"Apple is going to digest Windows from the inside like NeXT did to Apple. Like Pixar will do to Disney."

like Neo from inside Agent Smith...

Our business MUST have both Macs and PCs, period. If Macintels are capable of running Windows at near native speeds, we will transition our shop of 35 Macs, over the next year, completely to news Macs, period.

Those who bash Windows, bash on brother. But we have to serve clients and run our shop with feet in both worlds. But to be able to have both environments in a Mac box seals the deal, and we will, if needed, pay through the nose for such boxes.

Jobs, are you listening.

"Is Dvorak right..???"

About as often as Nostrodamus!

I would steal a copy of Windose and try it out. I would never steal music, other software apps, or even a candy bar - but when it comes to M$ I will not feel guilty

Conspiracy theory-

This is announced the same day as Avie Tevanian is announced as leaving?

I TOLD YOU!!

Vista will be your MASTER!

Why do you think Dell all of a sudden is starting to sell a line of premium PC's?

They know Apple has a hard on for Dell.

Now that Mac's ARE PC's in every aspect, it's a simple matter to start selling Mac's with Windows installed.

Apple stands to sell a lot of hardware with this Windows or Mac OS X option on their hardware.

Just look at all the stores Apple is building

You can't sustain all these stores with a minority OS.

Apple is taking on Dell and Dell knows it.

Macdude,
Clearly the xanax is wearing off. Perhaps a dose of Thorazine is in order.
You need to get more sleep...oh..I see you've dozed off... good....someone will wake you later in time to change your Depends.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste. If you only had one.
Don't make us all collectively come over there and spank you.

MDN word "expect" as in "It's MacDude. What did you expect?"

I have a friend whose business is locked into the microsft world. He likes what he sees on my macs. He buys multi thousand $$$ high end stuff.
If he can have a quality, slick apple system with osx, that runs windows too, where else does he go that offers that? Apple would have a fat sale on its hands.

maybe apple is taking on the near impossible task of creating a one-size-fits all development kit. develop your app in xCode and compile for Intel and PPC = Universal Binary. I know the OS is a whole different story with completely separate APIs but what if apple was able to create a API translator which did all the work of cross-developing for both windows and mac? That would push a torrent of developers on to the mac platform as well as a quickly growing library of universal binary (mactel,macppc,wintel) applications.

One can run Windows 98 on G5's and Windows XP on Mactels with Core Duo's using this software.

http://openosx.com/wintel/

Just don't expect to 3D game very well.

Blah blah blah so what else is Leopard gonna offer besides stupid windows drivers. What about the rest of the ppc users that have not had a chance to go out and by an intel. What is gonna make this new OSX better than tiger besides the use of the worst OS. I just got done downloading some pics for my dad on his laptop which is a dell I really forgot how lame Win is. Back to my powerbook =)

Twinkie:

"You know i love apple and everything. I've had one for as long as i have used computers. This looks a little fishy to me. I hope all the (stupid, crazy) rumors of Apple giving up on Mac OS. I would hate to have to use Windows. I hope that it means they are coming up with a way to run Windows applications natively WITHOUT Windows. That would be great."

After all this time and effort, not very likely.

What this is about is making the testing of side-by-side, hardware comparisons equal.

So that when Steve (or whoever) demos software at future MacWorlds and shows how a Mac smokes a PC, it will be because of the OS, not the hardware.

No one will be able to complain about how a Mac was "enhanced" or a Windows PC was crippled.

Not that some won't try.

The cat's out of the bag... Jobs goes Hollywood full blast. Rest of Apple top brass cashes in and gets ready to bail out:

http://edgar.brand.edgar-online.com/default.aspx?cik=0000320193

What next, then? Microsoft buys Apple and kills OS X. Or better yet, Dell buys Apple on the cheap and kills Microsoft.

Vicarious entertainment...

I personally don't understand why there are so many rumors floating around on how 10.5 is going to allow you to use OSX and XP or Vista. That is exactly the opposite of what it seems Apple is trying to do. The reason that they are changing to Intel as opposed to the Power PC's is because they wanted more people to come to Mac's and use their operating system. They created this on Intel so that everyone could (eventually) use every single app on a Mac. They are trying to get people to use OSX, not make it so that some Mac users might become tempted to purchase a Microsoft PC because they become familiar with it on their Mac.

The Steve is a genius.



MDN Magic Word: "zipper" as in, ah, never mind.

i like the idea of os x.5 having a universal translator in realtime so i can beam myself up to the planet rumor and dial a gate to a world where apple becomes the standard that all operating systems are judged by. a world where microsoft goes the way of the ancients.

Okay, so what happened with OS/2?

IBM made Windows programs run better in OS/2 than they did in Windows 3.1. So what did Microsoft do? Bring out Windows 95 which broke compatibliity with Win 3.1. And refuse to let IBM use the libraries it needed to run Win95 apps.

Likely the same thing will happen if Apple decides to run Windows apps in OS X Leopard.

The darkside overclouding slowly is

"IBM made Windows programs run better in OS/2"

Here is the key difference. The Windows would not be running 'in' MacOS X, but the Intel chip will control both OS's. XP/Vista etc. never get to see MacOS X, so there is little chance of breaking.

I don't need to run Windows apps, but I see this as a good thing. If it was MacOS 9 and XP together I would be worried, but MacOS X (+ iLife) with XP and the migration will be to X.

Now what would a developer do if all his customers were buying iMacs to run both OS's for 50% of their PCs (who need Win apps) and MacOS-only for the other 50% (who only need Office)? Quickly develop a Mac version to stay in business!

MW: 'MUCH' as in it won't take much to get businesses to change once they see they need a new PC to run Vista anyway.

For five years and running Mac OS X has been superior to windows.

People are switching, but apple want to increase the rate.

how do they bring the windows folk to the mac world?

simple, they literally bring windows to the Mac. - as an option of course, the Mac OS X is and always will be the default.

People, esp windows users it seems are hesitant of change, can you blame them? after the hellish experience of windows? once you give them the confidence to come over to the mac universe, theyll SEE the difference.

What do people do with a computer? they run programs, thats a very windows way of describing the user experience, a mac user would probably say they use the computer as tool for productivity and creativity. But anyway these windows users feel apprehensive about switching because of the apps issue. This step by Apple would erase that issue.

April Fool, Right ?

um, wtf, why does this mean anything about windows benchmarking? i get the whole windows consortium thing, but isn't it possible that Apple just wants a standardized benchmark suite from a known name for OS X? that would just be way to obious for a jouranlist to mention eh?

The quickest, easiest way to get more people to switch to Macs is get games for Macs released the same time they are released for PCs.

Simple.

"It's just silly to think that Apple is giving up on Mac OS. If for no other reason, there would be mass resignation of Apple employees the day of the announcement. And a lot of bad will"

----

You really dont get it do you?

This is solely about increasing the market share of Mac OS.

Imagine this:

Apple will be the ONLY company that makes computers that can run both OS's.

What will happen is that you will ONLY be able to boot up in Mac OS X BUT you will run windows within OS X just like any other piece of software.

This is a fantastic move - it means that companies that need to run windows and Mac OS will have to buy their computers from Apple.

Apple will NOT licence it's OS to DELL or any other computer maker, so those companies are probably shit scared of this as they will not be able to make a product that can do this.

re: Conspiracy theory-

This is announced the same day as Avie Tevanian is announced as leaving?


CRAP!!! - APPLE ANNOUNCED THIS LAST YEAR!

DON'T MAKE SOMETHING OF NOTHING.

There is no conspiracy theory.

End of story.

The real trick here is XCode... If you write a program you will have the option of checking "make universal" checkbox and XCode translates for you and makes a Universal App that runs on X86 or PPC hardware... guess what... now programmers are enticed to write for the mac because when they compile they can mak it Universal with one checkbox instead of months of new code lines bieng written... It also means Maac only software can now simply be ported to X86... Safari for Windows anyone??? iLife for Windows??? gets exciting doesn't it???

If Dvorak says that Apple is dropping OS X to use Vista on their new hardware then you can pretty much bet on the opposite.

You heard it here folks. Dvorak's predictions prove it.

Microsoft is dropping Vista and will depend on Mac OS X for all of it's future needs.

It will cost Gates 40 Billion to switch.

Gates is quoted as saying,"40 Billion doesn't buy what it used to but I think we made a good deal. Why waste any more time trying to copy the best? We went with Microsoft's historic strength and bought what we needed."

A number of posters have echoed this notion, which is basically the Dharma rumor:

The Mac community is well aware that Apple going Intel is a two-sided sword. The Mac platform has a lot to win from this audacious move, but a lot to lose, too. In fact, Steve Job’s company know that they are about to face the dreaded ‘OS/2 effect’, which means, as you know it, that binary compatibility, which can be achieved through little or no effort thanks to the WINE framework. In its time, OS/2 was a technically superior OS to Windows 3, but IBM made the tactical mistake to let Microsoft (who were working with them at the time) add a Win16 compatibility layer to OS/2. As we all know today, OS/2 didn’t succeed commercially and many attribute this failure to the fact that programmers didn’t made the effort to port their application to OS/2’s native API, but just relied on its ability to run unmodified Windows 16-bit binaries.

Jobs is well aware of the risk and, as soon as he decided to revive the dormant OS X-on-Intel ‘Marklar’ project, launched a parallel project (now known internally as ‘Dharma’) of reviving (here’s the big thing)... The Yellow Box for Windows. As you probably know it, the Yellow Box for Windows was NeXT’s project of porting Project Builder (known as Xcode today) and the complete NeXT API (known as Cocoa today) to Windows, allowing developers to create a Windows binary by simply ticking a check box. Rings a bell? Yes, it IS what they _always_ meant by ‘Universal Binaries’. Truly universal.

Why bother? That’s simple. By giving those powerful development tools for free, Apple and Jobs hope to give Windows developer a competing alternative to Microsoft’s Visual Studio and thus ‘contaminate’ the Windows environment with Mac-compatible, objective-C applications, instead of letting WINE do just the reverse.

As an example of the power of the Dharma project, Apple has ported Safari to Windows and an internal build of Apple’s browser (2.0.2, v.417.108) actually runs on Windows (XP required), complete with Quartz anti-aliasing. It is reported to be fairly stable, even if the Java and Flash plugins still aren’t working, due to their dependency to third-party code. Apple plan to release the Windows version of its browser for free. In fact, this one was easy to do since they had to port WebKit in order for the Cocoa framework to be complete.…

It goes on to say this was supposed to ship with the first Intel Mac, which obviously didn’t happen, and that it’s being developed secretly in France, which sounds dubious at best.

Still, “Dharma” would be a very good strategy for Apple, and the yellow-box project is a well known rumor, so there might just be a kernel of truth to this. I wouldn’t count it out. YMMV.