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Jun 11, 08 - 02:03 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

bummer, but progress stops for no man ( or woman)

May the PowerPC Rest in Peace...

It was and still is a great processor.

Jobs is only now getting his elusive 3 GHz from the Intel processors.

So . . . this must spell the end of the line for the G5/G4?

I don't think this will be a big deal until 10.7, since 10.6 supposedly won't have any more features. Still, it kind of sucks for all of those who bought G5s in early 2006.

Didn't see that coming.

"So . . . this must spell the end of the line for the G5/G4?"

I think they stopped producing them last year, actually. But they'll remain productive machines for a long time to come.

Jun 11, 08 - 02:20 pm Comment from: bdb

At least Apple is forewarning us a year in advance that such a change is coming. Unless you're Adobe, that should be plenty of time to prepare.

I find it interesting that nobody from Apple presenting Snow Leopard has come out directly and stated whether or not PowerPC will be supported - didn't anybody ask this question at WWDC?

Anyway, my take is, Apple is being cagey about this either because they don't want to prematurely anger their PowerPC userbase (though not saying anything until later would make them even angrier), or that they're still hedging their bets as to whether or not the final release (not developer release) of Snow Leopard will include PowerPC support.

(MW: "progress")

Is Apple the new Microsoft?

Jun 11, 08 - 02:23 pm Comment from: jtc

Good thing I already have my G5 up for sale

Jun 11, 08 - 02:25 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

R2, no.

Jun 11, 08 - 02:27 pm Comment from: TowerTone

I don't see why this means they can't continue with Leopard updates for the PPC crowd.

My daughter has a 1.25GHz eMac (soon to be my 4 year old grandson's) with a 3 meg download ISP, and it loads MDN faster than my 2GHz Core Duo iMac with 7 megs down. Go figure.

Jun 11, 08 - 02:39 pm Comment from: praus

@R2

No. If Apple were the new Microsoft, they’d still have OS 9 built into the system and they'd be trying (and failing) to support processors back to the G3. This is sort of the oposite of Microsoft. They're actually trying to stream line their OS and make it run better. I don't think Microsoft knows what that means.

Jun 11, 08 - 02:39 pm Comment from: MikeK

It's really not that difficult to understand..

Both platforms PPC and Intel will have the same feature set.. The newer Intel machines will get a performance boost with Snow Leopard..

Considering the last PPC machines were released in 2006 and Snow Leopard is not due to 2009, the next big cat with actual new features will likely be 1 to 2 years after that...

So were talking 2011 before an OS is released with new features that PPC will not be able to run... That's still giving the last of the PPC machines a 5 year lifespan..

Seems pretty reasonable.

Jun 11, 08 - 02:40 pm Comment from: Macromancer

"Is Apple the new Microsoft?"

Yes, except the part where you aren't going to be paying for crappy products

Actually what they're doing here shows how totally unlike Microsoft they really are. By getting rid of all the legacy bloat, Snow Leopard will be free of all of the problems that Vista has suffered. It's an absolute genius move on Apple's part.

Hey, I'm not trying to run Leopard on my old SE30 or Commodore 64 sitting in the bottom of my closet. OS's need to move on and release some of the old for progress. Just ask and Windows user... if you try to work in too much legacy, you just gum up all the works.

Good for Apple. This probably won't be an upgrade many people make. Although, it looks promising for Enterprise needs. But it will set the foundation for the future.

Apple will become the new Microsoft if they release Snow Leopard in 2018.

I even coudn't install Tiger on my Macintosh IIfx 33Mhz!! Isn't that a scandal!!!

PS Hey! You know what? Time is passing and things change! Amazing! Isn't it?

My Pismo is da bomb! I'm keeping it at Tiger, tho. Them Leopards are sloooooow on a G3.

Jun 11, 08 - 03:00 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

Folks, please

Did anyone *really* think Apple would continue to support PPC forever ?

If so, I have a Performa w/603 upgrade happy to sell you, fairly cheap too

64bit clean (whatever exactly that is, but must be 'better' than the dirty)

That new file system to replace HFS

Etc etc etc

Snow will be fast fast faster, and if Intel can't keep up, then screw 'em, we'll find someone who can. Or build our own if need.

AND, can bet the farm it will be scalable to slim down into the iPhone or whatever other 'Dick Tracy Wrist-Watch' type gizmo Apple can dream up.

Faithful PPC, you've served us well. Now take your place in the Hall of Fame and enjoy your twilight year(s).




BC

Jun 11, 08 - 03:07 pm Comment from: HMCIV

Snow Leopard left my Powerbook out in the cold.

@Mike K
You said "That's still giving the last of the PPC machines a 5 year lifespan.. "
maybe you meant "ADDITIONAL lifespan",since PPC didnt appear in 2006.

Jun 11, 08 - 03:36 pm Comment from: Big Al

A big DUH! on Snow Leopard requiring an Intel processor.

It works best on an Intel 64 bit multi processor system.

The big news is it's not going to work on legacy Power PC systems.

Let the old jump on an ice flow and feed the Polar Bears. With all the global warming hysteria, I hear the bears could use the extra food.

I heard a brief mention of Snow Leopard in the keynote but was there anything actually shown?

Jun 11, 08 - 03:44 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

Leopard will be further optimized and developed. We still get security patches and software updates for Tiger. Heck I just installed the QuickTime patch on a Panther Mac.
This is progress. When I needed more speed, I bought a used G5 to hold me over until I could afford my MacPro. Well now I have the MacPro and the G5 Power Mac is working wonderfully for someone running Tiger. Not everybody needs the latest OS. Much less one that brings no new features to the table. But for all that have invested on a multi-core Intel system, this is a good development. Expect Quad iMacs, MacBooks and MacBook Pro to be announced shortly after Snow Leopard.

Why does the release of SL affect PPC users?

News Flash:
Your Mac Tower will still continue to work, as will your iBook and your G4 iMac.
Our studio's recently purchased used PB hooked to its projector in the conference room will not stop functioning upon the release of SL, and when we take it to weddings to show photos, it'll do just fine.

Progress. I love it.

Jun 11, 08 - 03:47 pm Comment from: ken1w

> Is Apple the new Microsoft?

NO, Apple is the OPPOSITE of Microsoft.

Microsoft will make Windows requirements as backward compatible as possible to increase sales of Windows licenses, even if the hardware cannot handle all the new software features.

Apple will make Mac OS X requirements fit the needs of the new software features, to ensure a good user experience and to encourage new hardware sales.

That's the difference between Microsoft and Apple, folks... Microsoft relies on software sales, Apple relies on hardware sales. As long as that difference exists, Apple will NEVER be the new Microsoft.

Jun 11, 08 - 03:50 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

While it seems doubtful they would release and develop both PPC and Intel versions, you never know. They developed both for every other version of OS X, so they may be keeping their options open still. Doubtful, but a possibility.

Jun 11, 08 - 03:52 pm Comment from: Richie_mofo

Cannot WAIT to get a new Mac when this comes out! My MacBook will be 3 years old next June - perfect timing!!

I'm disappointed I won't be able to upgrade my G5 iMac to Snow Leopard, but overall not too surprised. I'll pass it on to my kids and have a new excuse for a new iMac!

Don't forget that we're not talking about just the OS here – many components, like QuickTime, Core Audio, etc., may need to be continuously developed for both Intel and PPC, even though the installer chooses which set to place on your Mac.

We've been hearing (and people have been bitching) about how Apple may have stretched it's OS and software development teams too thin – the iPhone delayed the release of Leopard, bugs in Leopard and the quick patches released to handle them, the delay in the iPhone SDK and the delay of the final iPhone 2.0 software and AppStore until July 11.

This is probably a good thing, because Apple won't have to continue to develop Intel and PPC side-by-side for new technologies. At least with Leopard, PPC users have a powerful, stable, feature-rich OS which will be useful for many, many years. That really wasn't the case with OS 9, which wasn't ready for the future and was being held together with band-aids and duct tape when OS X was finally ready.

About time. Apple should have killed support for PPC Macs in 2007.

Still, I'm waiting for Nehalem in 2009.

still running part of my biz with a 1996 G3 and OS 9 ... the other part with g5 (that has never crashed once in 4 years)

Jun 11, 08 - 05:49 pm Comment from: Connor MacBook

Freddy, you must have read the RUMOR that was circulating before WWDC. This is the first CONFIRMATION.

This is Wonderful News. I think Apple should also eliminate the Core and Dual Core processors as well!!!! That way we can begin to replace the original Intel MacBooks, Minis, And iMacs. These machine will be almost 3 years old when Snow Leopard is released..

Time to upgrade folks if you want to run the best!!!!!

So much for Macs having a longer lifecycle than typical PCs. I won't be spending another 3 grand for a 17" laptop ever again.

The nice thing about Linux is there's no one there with an agenda to force hardware for the latest OS. Ubuntu runs great on most anything.

As a PowerBook G4 owner, I concede that what Apple's doing is in its best interests to provide a better platform. With all its resources dedicated to the one architecture, Apple will be able to roll out more features and make the platform more lightweight by getting rid of PowerPC specific code.

But like what's been said before, we're not even expecting any new real end-user features until 10.7 - which is a few years away from now. I think the PowerBook would have well and truly survived its lifespan by that point.

@MidWest Mac

:( I got my G5 in May 2005. In June 2005, they announced they were going Intel.

Admittedly, I'm not sure I'm switching that machine to Leopard. Still debating, since Tiger is running so well on it.

Jun 11, 08 - 07:55 pm Comment from: StocktonMac

Guys and Girls, this is a GREAT thing. PPC is ancient. Why would we want apple to split their development resources, PV resources, etc for an ancient, slow, single core processor. I want Apple to shoot all their Dev$s towards the future, Intel. I know that this will be difficult for the typical customer to buy an OS upgrade with no, or little, new flash, but for us kernel geeks, this is the second coming. Finally, someone is going back to the core and modernizes threads, synchronization, and modernize the API. If successfully completed, Mac OS will not just compete with Vista, but supercomputers. I REALLY want to see them virtualize the GPU as a high performance processing Core. Imagine processing a Mathematica transform in the GPU!!! <HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY>. So here is my personal .02 about the new features issue in SnoLepord. I think they will port Multi-Touch from the Awesome iPhone 3G (Is that a Unix Supercomputer in your Pocket...) to consumer OS X. Really not a big project since the event layers have already been engineered, tested, etc. Next, I think Apple will release a new series of Monitors with three attributes: 1) Multi-Touch 2) Same 150 dpi pitch as the iPhone 3) Can tilt and swivel to form an instant horizontal flat surface for Multi-Touch. So much for Watcom....

Jun 11, 08 - 07:56 pm Comment from: StocktonMac

Also, Does SnoLeopard=Blueray Support?

Looks like my Power Mac dual G5 2.0 will be going on the market soon. I saw this coming. I just wish Apple would come out with something in between the Mac Pro and IMac that would support 2 monitors and allow you to add an extra internal drive. Mac Pro is overkill for me, BUT I just have to have 2 monitors (I know the IMac will run an extra monitor but it just looks to unwieldly with different size screens).

"It's an absolute genius move on Apple's part."

There you have it. No New Features. Pure Genius. You can truly sell and Apple fanboy anything.

"Microsoft relies on software sales, Apple relies on hardware sales. "

You hit the nail on the head. That's why forcibly obsoleting customer hardware and switching around so often is a popular strategy at Apple.

Well, I just bought a WONDERFUL 24 inch iMac for my office, and I am VERY happy. My old Powerbook G4 17-inch (the last of the G4 Powerbooks) runs Leopard wonderfully and I'm happy with it for now, however I also realize that I will be buying a new MacBook Pro when the next Generation of the MBPs come out next year. And, even then, this computer will still run wonderfully.

Time moves forward. I still love my legacy macs, and I have an 8600 set up to run OS 9.1 and all my old software and games. I also have a G4 tower that I have running Tiger and it is great as a home server. But I'm not so silly as to think that these old computers could or should be upgraded to the latest and greatest OS.

Jun 11, 08 - 09:35 pm Comment from: Cubert

This is complete BS from Apple! The late model G5 owners should be pissed as hell! Snow Leopard may not have any MAJOR new features but it will have many new minor ones. It will not be just a code clean up. PowerPC owners are being left out of a major update (ie. a whole new dot update) after only 3 years of purchasing their Macs. They should be pissed.

Just one question to all of the people complaining about the 10.6....

When is the last time you saw an OS manufacturer state that their next release was really only focused on bug fixes and Performance?

Never... that when...

"When is the last time you saw an OS manufacturer state that their next release was really only focused on bug fixes and Performance?"

In the Windows world we call those service packs not new OS versions. Converting to SteveSpeak Microsoft just released a "New OS Version" with "No New Features" for Vista and for XP.

I wonder if 10.6 will still get PPC dev time out back in the shed — ala Marklar? Apple does own a chip designer.

Or will those designs just lock out clone-abees?


Anyway, http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/?sr=hotnews

Jun 11, 08 - 10:13 pm Comment from: DogGone

Leopard on my 1.33 Ghz PB G4 works okay but it is beginning to tax the system.

Leopard on my previous generation MBP is super fast. And the battery life is amazing.

My point is that the Intel processors are far more powerful and efficient. Add in the fact that 2/3 of all Macs using the internet are Intel machines and there isn't much use spending the time and effort writing for the older processors.

And I always thought those service packs that come out almost daily were to fix bugs and patch security holes that never seem to go away - thanks for update.

How come then with all of these wonderful service packs, Vista and XP just keep getting slower and slower in performance verse OS X has seen notifiable performance increases from each release?

Strange.....

Jun 11, 08 - 11:41 pm Comment from: Touch

Snow Leopard is not about Intel or being stable and efficient. It will not even transform the Leopard OS and that is why Apple is keeping the Leopard name. The big change is called "cocoa touch" integration. Cocoa touch is already on the iphones and is bound for our mac Leopard.

If you see the specs, it not only calls for intel processors, it also asks for a built in display. The reason PPC is not supported is that old macs will never be multi-touch. Most probably not even the macs we own now if the monitor is not already connected to an "apple supplied video card" as mentoned in the SL specs. That will leave all current imacs, mb´s and mbp´s out too (hopefully there is a way to fix this [removed]void(0); ).

My dear friends, the change in Snow Leopard is not about the system. It is about the interface and it has been in the works for a while now.

If you don´t believe me, look at new interface panels such as Time Machine system preference panel. It is not for the iphone and yet the switch and menus are already designed for finger touch control.

The future is a year away!

Just my humble opinion.

" there isn't much use spending the time and effort writing for the older processors."

As somebody pointed out, Apple makes more money from selling you a new Mac with Snow Leopard than they do selling you a Snow Leopard update for your old Mac.

Apple have absolutely no financial incentive to keep supporting PPC.