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hits is what this guy needs. Hits and comments.

*Drool*

case closed

The "criminally ignorant" are not a trickle. They're the vast majority of the ocean of typical PC buyers, Windows users.

Remember, in a Democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve. In a free, capitalist society, people get the kind of PC they deserve.

The rest of us use Macs.

"Basically, we've now arrived at the point where you'd have to be painfully ignorant to purchase any desktop or notebook personal computer that doesn't have an Apple logo on it."

You've just described most of the Windows using world. Most of them don't even know what Windows is or what it does.

I think a better comparison would be Mac Pro plus AppleCare plus a good third pary monitor with a decent contrast ratio and a response time under 10ms that's still $200 less than the cinema display. Apple's displays are overpriced and underperforming. Unless you really want a display that looks very very nice, performance doesn't matter to you, and niether does price, there is absolutely no reason to buy one. All their competitors beat them hands down. I love Apple's computers but as a mac user I find their display line, even though I don't buy them, just plain embarassing.

the Dell comes with a Quadro video card. $10 for the upgrade????

Can that power 2 30" monitors????

usually dells cost less because they dont throw in a lot of junk like cameras and iphoto that nobody needs.

now dell costs more, so DUH there is a reason for it.

there are things the dell has that the mac pro does not have, you just have to research and you will see.

rinky-dink tin-can aluminum mac pro cannot match the sheer freaight train power of a sleek black dell.

only buy the cheaper mac if you dont care about quality, you want a toy with lame-o unix under the hood.

list all the things the mac has, what matters is it doesnt have windows, not for free like dell gives you.

and once you buy windows for your mac guess what, you cant be so smug about viruses anymore, you are no better than the rest of us.

I just got e-mail from a guy I used to work with letting me know that he's about to buy his first Mac. He'd been sitting on the fence for a few years, and I used to evangelize the Mac everyday when I worked with him. The MacBook was just too much for him to pass up. In the last year, I know a good dozen people who've switched, and they're all happy they did. Slowly but surely, the masses are waking up.

While the high-end Mac is cheaper than the high-end Dell, it doesn't change the fact that most people aren't buying high-end Dells, they are buying the cheap ones.

For instance, a Dell XPS 200 is only $1100 with a 20" wide-screen monitor.

While this is more comparable to an iMac (actually its wimpier than the iMac as it has PentiumD), people like towers, and they like cheap :(

"list all the things the mac has, what matters is it doesnt have windows, not for free like dell gives you."

7up, in my book, that's a pro, not a con! I truly hope your post was an exercise in humor. If not, I feel bad for you.

MDN said "comprised mainly of the criminally stupid." Yep. that describes most pc users. Its sad to say but if you need proof, check out Computer Stupidities at "http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/". Its funny but sad too.

My neighbor just bought a PC. Had no idea how it works, what the various messages that popped up all the time ment and every warning that came up, for any reason, she decided that it was better left alone rather than decide to move forward with the choice. SAD.

N.

You truly are a retard, aren't you 7up?

Uggy, the MDN take was "criminally stupid" not "criminally ignorant." As Lazarus Long noted, ignorance can be cured, stupidity cannot.

All their competitors beat them hands down

That's is so exaggerate it is hilarious.

Anandtech has run various comparisons with Apple Cinema Displays and the best the market has to offer. Pretty much they equate each other.

Embarrassing like when HIPerWall doubled the world record for tiled screens for pixel resolution? They used Apple Cinema Display to do that.

7up - Just what are you smoking? The Mac Pro is a work of Art.

As for quality look inside the Mac then compare with the insides of a Dell. Then come back and tell me who cares about quality. As for Windoze Vs OSX - don't even get me started.

"and once you buy windows for your mac guess what, you cant be so smug about viruses anymore, you are no better than the rest of us."

Proof positive that you consider OSX superior to windows.

Joe: no, the Dell can't run ANY big (dual-link) displays. It can run 2 normal displays (up to 1920x1200, or blurry analog), while the Apple can run one normal and one big 30". Also the Dell has only a basic 128 VRAM, half what the Mac has.

The shootout has an error on the Mac side, saying the Mac's maximum res is the same as the Dell's. It's MUCH higher (thanks to dual-link), which is why it can drive a 30" 2560x1600 display. Just a copy-paste error I'm sure.

Jay: don't forget Apple displays just got a brightness and contrast boost along with a price drop. The also have a Firewire hub, and one cable that carries everything from power to video to USB. These are all pluses against many competing displays. Not to say those aren't good buys, but it's not as simple as it may seem.

joe and jane sixpack do not read macdailynews, nor follow any other nerd-oriented blogs, et al. ie they are not hearing your advice to them. meanwhile i am tired of hearing it. even if they (j&j;) did get here by accident, joe and jane sixpack will not understand the need to download bootcamp and BUY and install windows to have their "security blanket"... and when/if the acne-infested-sexually-challenged-idiot at best buy actually explains this (and they understand), they will see it as a huge disadvantage ("that mac thing doesn't even come with windows, spit tobacco, who would want that?"). so they will still buy the windose-PRELOADED and multi-camera-card-slot-sport'in "hp pressario mediacenter model 34652POS" with matching 900-button microsnot "multimedia keyboard with vibrate function". meanwhile, a likely large audience who DOES conciously expend time to read your babble is assumed knowledgeable with computers, and thus neither impressed nor comforted (re stock price hopes) by your repeated emphasis that iLife makes a large difference here. none of these apps have a notable value to anyone other than a teenager-with-no-friends, except for perhaps the iTunes, and of course that is avail for windows anyway. how small is the audience for (example) garageband... meaningless. perhaps if they included in this freebie real office apps (clones of word, excel, powerpoint) and a truely exchange-compatible pim client, that would mean something... yet of course, those are as well already free with the dulls and gateways.

thanks for the laugh 7up! =)

mw: natural. natural selection needs to root out people who aren't kidding like 7up had to be!

Kinda funny how the MDN take talked about the criminally stupid when 7up pops up with a line of jibberish and half truths.

I am going to cut 7up some slack, though; just for the fact that he uses correct grammar and is on a mac site. I hereby upgrade 7up from 'criminally stupid' to 'annoyingly stupid'.

Metryq:

An excellent quote, but a bit simplistic:

1. what about the wilfully blind? A form of stupid or a deeper psychological problem/cognitive dissonance?

Consider the IT guy: their salary depends on their not getting it. People in this situation tends to be really hard to reason with, since agreeing with you means they lose their job.

Of course they have a conflict of interest, but, regardless, they won't "get it".

2. What about people who just don't care? Sure, they're ignorant, but they don't care/don't know, and aren't motivated to do anything about it.

We shouldn't sluff this category off: to an extent, we're technology gourmets. We care, period. Consider things we don't care about - ultra high end stereos/fast cars/motorcyles or some other category that some people but not us are passionate about.

We'll never get it about those things because we don't care. And some of those people won't get it about Macs because they don't care.

Until the alternative becomes painful (and viruses are painful - perhaps there's hope), most people won't care. Now if something compelling like an iPod for the living room comes along...

joe architect,

It doesn't matter whether J&J;Sixpack are reading MDN. The conventional wisdom is percolating through the mainstream media and will get stronger. MDN is correct - more people will be coming to Mac and loving it.

And, then, guess what? Eventually, J&J;Sixpack really will be reading MDN!

7up just forgot to take his meds this morning.

7up is being satirical.

If you can't see that obvious fact, stop posting here until you can.

I know Joe and Jane Sixpack. You don't.

Dear 7up,

For me, iPhoto is an essential must-have for business and pleasure, as are the other i-Life component programs.

To give you a fix on speed, from clicking the icon to screen display takes just 4 (four) seconds on my laptop -- and that's 4,041 (four thousand and forty one) pix!

This speed and efficiency -- pre-loaded, don't forget -- makes Mac the platform of choice for this media person.

Shouldn't retards be banned from the police force???

Isee 7up has been shooting PCP again. Your comments are the dribble of a vagrant walking across the streets of san francisco, talking to himself, arguing with himself, all alone.

Uggy Buggy...

Quote "In a free, capitalist society, people get the kind of PC they deserve."

Err Free? Free as long as you pay. Free to choose a PC or shop at Wal-Mar... you only get to "choose" when you can afford to pay for it. Needs are susbsumed by the freedom to exploit. The only thing free in a capitalism is the ability to screw others.

Wow, only one other person here thought 7up was using sarcasm?!? I must be giving our fellow Mac-users way too much credit.

Here's something I just thought of:

What if Apple included an easy way to install Windows when the user starts up their Mac for the first time?

It would be part of the set up process, and would make Windows on the Mac more appealing.

And while we don't want the user to just run Windows, the sooner and quicker they'll be able to use their Mac the way they're comfortable with, the sooner they'll start getting into the Mac side of things.

Nah, I'd rather have users install Windows the first time they run Boot Camp.

I would want them to fall in love with OS X first.

What if Apple included an easy way to install Windows

Been there, done that. Apple includes an easy way to install Windows already.

Granted, not the first time the Mac boots up, but the first time you install BootCamp. With Leopard, the first time you'll want to install another OS.