MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Okay, time for all the usual suspects to start making comments. Those whose life revolves around MDN. Those who have no families life this Christmas Eve.

"You cannot kill that which has no life." - Southpark

To All My Democrat Friends:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to
society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.

To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Dec 24, 07 - 10:46 am Comment from: cptnkirk

Interestingly, Apple has 7 products in the top twenty. Nearly 1/3 of the market compared to all the other PC sellers. Pretty good numbers! Up from 3 or 4 percent to 33% in just a few years. Bravo, Steve!

Merry Christmas!

That's a good one!

Funny!

Have a very Merry Christmas!

Dec 24, 07 - 11:02 am Comment from: jimmymac

@ Mark

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Merry Christmas!

I got me one!!! Thanks Santa!!!

Ok, so I haven't really used Mac's since college (although our on-staff artists use them), but I bought an iphone when they came out. I absolutely love the thing sooo much, that I started coming here and reading news.

You guys praise OS X so much that I'm actually starting to believe you. So my mother in law was wanting a new laptop for christmas, and since I do all of her support (as well as the rest of the family), I figured I get her a macbook, since everything just "works". If it would work out, I could start upgrading all the family members to mac, and maybe save myself a ton of problem fixing.

I did a little research, and opted out of the macbook pro since it was a little more than I wanted to spend on her... ok, a lot more. But the macbook upgraded to 2GB of ram seemed like it would be ok. Sure, like MDN says above, it costs hundreds more than similarly configured windows laptops, but it's OS X, so it's worth it, right? And $1250 is still "ok" for a laptop. (BTW, why does it cost so much more? It's an intel processor, an intel chipset, and intel video card??? Hell, the OS costs LESS than vista?.. are we just paying for marketing?). So, I was going to use her as the test to see if I can start converting the whole family to MAC.

So, I once again go to the apple store (which you guys seem to love so much), and once again I have to ask a guy, who forwards me to a guy, who forwards me to a line to wait in to get one of these things. While I'm standing there, I check out the little mac book to see how good it is.

And that's when I realize it just isn't going to happen. This thing has the TINNIEST screen I've ever seen on a normal laptop. Not at all grandma proof. She would have to zoom in everything, all the time, or run in 340x280 resolution just to read anything. BOOO!!!

So my grand scheme totally failed, because I just can't justify spending twice as much (by going pro), just for a different (better) OS. So I had to get her a toshiba laptop. Of course, it had a bigger harddrive, same ram, faster video, faster cpu, and a 17" huge screen, and it still cost hundreds less. Bummer. I tried MDN fans, I tried.

Mark,

You better be careful. The Thought Police within that political party will want to hunt you down and send you to a re-education camp.

Dec 24, 07 - 11:13 am Comment from: Predrag

Meanwhile, on the matter of AAPL (the stock), it is on its way to beat that fleeting, thirty-second freak occurence of $200 all-time intra-day high, this time for real! Currently, (11:10AM), it's trading around $198.3. Very nice indeed!

Dec 24, 07 - 11:14 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Mark

The pagans called, they'd like their tree back.

hey Yo,

Just wait till you get to spend 8000 dollars of your time fixing the viruses that granny got, instead of spending time with her. Or maybe that is a guaranteed way of making sure you see her at least weekly! Good Boy! just don't expect her to be able to view a simple picture or return your mail.

@Yo,
Good luck with your Toshiba!! I'm sure you will be happy with it, right up to the point where you have to update the virus protection software, and deal with spyware and malware. I hope you have enough time to support your mother-in-law's machine. Had you gotten a Mac you'd have ALOT more free time.
Merry Christmas!!

where is Zune Tang? she must have gone shopping for another pc..

Dec 24, 07 - 11:28 am Comment from: Islandgirl

You better be careful. The Thought Police within that political party will want to hunt you down and send you to a re-education camp.

Too late, Mark's already been through GOP Group-think Re-education Camp. He's lost the ability to think for himself.

Nice try Yo but it simply doesn't ring true to me. Funny but even here in little old England when I went into the Apple store last week the guy could sell me what I wanted on the shop floor no waiting at all. Are you sure that you weren't in Ikea?

Dec 24, 07 - 11:38 am Comment from: El Guapo

@Scrooge: Go scrooge yourself!

@Everyone else: ¡Feliz Navidad!

Dec 24, 07 - 11:44 am Comment from: El Guapo

@Yo

You are so clever. Now you have a reason to see granny weekly (maybe even daily). You sly dog you! You no longer need to make up an excuse to go see her. She'll be calling you for all kinds of help.

I guess it's kind of like job security for most IT shops: support only Windows PC's and they have to keep you around. Very clever.

@ Yo--
You must really like spending time with your mother-in-law. Your wife will probably start getting suspicious of you because of the many hours you will be with her mother and not her because you are "fixing her computer".

Good luck with that.

Me. I'd get the computer that would require the least amount of time with the in-laws. Money well spent!

Dec 24, 07 - 11:52 am Comment from: ron

Yo. YoYo.

Dec 24, 07 - 12:00 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@Yo

Suffer from mood swings much?

If you had half a brain, you would have brought grandma with you to the apple store and let her decide for herself.

She could have seen first-hand, how wonderful the shopping experience really is in the Apple store. She would have met some really bright people who truly enhance the total ownership experience. You could have signed her up for a year's worth of one-on-one training for mere 99 dollars.

So Yo, not only could she have left the Apple store with the number one selling laptop on the planet this fine Christmas Eve, she would now feel a part of this wholesome, religious experience.

Instead you screwed her out of what could have been one of the single, most life-changing events, in her life! Not to mention all of the other family members who will continue to lead lives of quiet desperation as Windows sufferers.

You stupid, stupid little man!

Good one Mark!!

Dec 24, 07 - 12:02 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Check that, I wrote grandma instead of mother-in-law. The sentiment remains the same, however.

Dec 24, 07 - 12:20 pm Comment from: MacSmiley

@Yo,

Woulda, shoulda, coulda considered the 20" iMac, at least. Hope you kept the receipt for the Toshiba.

Dec 24, 07 - 12:25 pm Comment from: R

You know, Yo, they do make glasses for older people. My 74 year old mother uses an old 12" ibook just fine.

Oh, and I bought a Toshiba in 2002 because I was forced to get a Windows computer. Piece of junk right off the bat. Good luck. Unless, of course, you're trying to ruin your relationship with you grandma, in which case: Bravo!

Great one Mark. Funny how the libs start attacking. The truth hurts democommies.

Yo: (BTW, why does it cost so much more? It's an intel processor, an intel chipset, and intel video card??? Hell, the OS costs LESS than vista?.. are we just paying for marketing?)

Try getting a similarly specced PC laptop and you'll end up in the same region.

Apple generally uses faster CPUs, provides higher-level ports (DVI-I instead of just the obsolete VGA, analog plus digital audio outputs and inputs, gigabit ethernet, n-level WiFi, Bluetooth always included, full-sized (powered) FireWire etc.) and generally provides better design and build quality than most of the PC competition.

Sure, you can undercut their prices - but always at a cost.

Among other things - as mentioned above - the cost of spending most of your visits to your relatives (including the unscheduled emergency ones when the PC has failed) unmucking and unsticking their PCs instead of with them in the living room. And being remembered as the one who brought them that piece of junk in the first place.

I'm not sure you really got your money's worth...

Forgot: The screen size is much less of a problem with MacBooks since all of them have DVI outputs to drive up to 24" displays digitally at full quality (MacBook Pro: up to 30").

If the user actually has a problem with the built-in screen, that is. Many people prefer a very compact and highly portable notebook to a bigger and heavier one and are fine with the smaller screen.

There's an extremely convenient zooming feature built into OS X, by the way - simply hold CTRL and swipe two fingers on the pad. Just for the odd case where magnification is actually necessary.

I just hope the PC isn't as noisy as many of them are - that's a much bigger problem than a potentially dissatisfying screen.

Dec 24, 07 - 12:52 pm Comment from: Predrag

Dear MDN readers,

I cannot understand what was the reason for so much vitriol agains Yo. The guy belongs to the "never used Mac" camp and had been visiting our forum for some time recently. Having seen all the smugness and arrogance, he still decided to give it a fair shake. In all fairness, I have seen plenty of 40-year olds struggling to read type on MacBook / MBP. While my eyesight is fine, many people hate wearing glasses when they see well enough (and not exactly perfectly). For them, the only solution is (what I hate the most) reducing the screen resolution (on LCDs, we all know what it means - blurry image).

This guy was not making stuff up or exaggerating in order to make a point. He was just telling his story and decided that he'll vote with his wallet alone.

The subsequent responses showed the zealotry we're so notorious for. I wonder what will have to happen in order for all this zealotry to fade away...?

Dec 24, 07 - 01:02 pm Comment from: ron

"While my eyesight is fine, many people hate wearing glasses when they see well enough (and not exactly perfectly)."

I just tap the large 'A' and wolla!-viola-magic!

Oh, come on. We could get into an argument about iChat and other software that he isn't factoring in, too. And if eyesight is such a problem, is a laptop really such a good choice?

I'd love to know what she would have wanted.

Dec 24, 07 - 01:10 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Marty

Yeah, he really knows how to copy and paste.

Dec 24, 07 - 01:19 pm Comment from: coolfactor

@ Yo,

Does Gramma's new Toshibo do Ctrl+2-finger zooming instantly without any 3rd-party software? You know she wouldn't have a problem reading the screen. You were just looking for a reason not to buy a Mac (not MAC).

Dec 24, 07 - 01:27 pm Comment from: trex67

@Mark,

Merry Christmas to you.

Sorry about your small penis.

Dec 24, 07 - 01:28 pm Comment from: DogGone

Yo,

Macs do cost more than the cheapest PC laptops and there are less choices (I too was disappointed with the 13 inch MB screen).

However the time and effort you save not having to troubleshoot problems will make it worth the extra cost. Very hard to understand until you've used a mac for a while.

Talking of screen real estate. I have a 19 inch screen at work (PC) and at home (Mac). The resolutions are the same but I find it really hard to work with multiple windows with the PC whereas it is totally natural on a mac.

Dec 24, 07 - 01:33 pm Comment from: KingMel

Yo, consider a 20" iMac. Big screen for Granny and easy on the wallet. Buy a second 1GB SO-DIMM for $30 or so and she will be set.

Yo does illustrate a point, Macs aren't perfect and they aren't for everyone, at least not yet. In fact, we ought to be happy that he didn't buy a Mac because now don't have to listen to his inevitable whining about the big mistake that he made ever buying a MacBook in the first place, because clearly he just isn't ready.

Also, to be fair, Yo buries a couple of valid points within his sarcasm. Apple seems to have sufficiently healthy product margins, and they need to keep a close eye on the value of their products to the consumer relative to the Windows PC competition. The 950 graphics in the Macbook is getting dated, and I believe that it would be smart to go 2GB on the RAM, especially considering the shared memory and the benefits of the extra RAM for MacOS X. At the volume pricing that Apple gets the second 1GB SO-DIMM wouldn't hit the bottom line very much, and few people want to open up a notebook to upgrade.

Yo also makes a decent point with respect to the size of the MacBook screen - Apple's consumer laptops are strictly 13.3" and the pros are either 15.4" or 17". Apple could add a second consumer laptop into the lineup with a 15" or 17" screen. It doesn't need to be an extremely high resolution display.

Merry Christmas you guys.

I'm sorry some of you have to bring the bitterness of your souls to the forum today. I myself no longer believe in a God. But I can recognize the spirit of love and peace that this season represents.
And remember, all these people whose ideas you impugn are Americans as well. And often, they are the ones who have protected your right to say the things you do.
Merry Christmas and peace to all our service people, as well, especially those who aren't home to help us celebrate.

To Yo,

It sounds a little strange for a human being to be "forwarded." Next time, don't put in a change-of-address card, and don't wear an envelope, and maybe then it won't happen.

There are a lot of seniors who cannot see small print even with the best vision correction, unless they are lucky enough to have a cataract operation. So I can sympathize with the size of the MacBook screen. However, why does granny need a laptop? If she doesn't spend much time at Barnes and Noble and Starbucks, a desktop would probably do just as well, plus--portability aside--it would be a better value.

There are two advantages to Toshiba laptops. On is that they are better than Dell. The other is that you'll be talking to granny a lot more often, because she'll need you to fix her computer on nearly a regular basis.

the thing about giving away the extra ram, kingme, is that you are overlooking apple's heftier margin on selling ram upgrades. sure they could give it away and not lose much money, but they sure wouldn't be bringing in as much either.

Hey Yo. If you were going to buy a car, you could buy a Russian Prada sedan - it costs hundreds, if not thousands of dollars less than a similarly specced Toyota sedan. But I know where I'd rather lay my money on. I know which would give me more pleasure, less trouble and have better looks and build quality.
The same goes for computers.
Does your grandma seriously need a laptop anyway? Unless she's an octogenarian road warrior who makes regular trips to a wifi Starbucks, then she would almost certainly be better off with an all-in-one 20" iMac.
I do wish Apple would release a consumer level laptop with a 15" widescreen and discreet graphics sub-system however - 13.3" Macbook screen is too small for me to work on.
Oh well, we'll see what new goodies Uncle Steve has for us in a few weeks!

One big thing you left out is that if the whole family have Mac running Leopard, you could even trouble shoot using screen share.

Please go to Apple.com and watch the Leopard tour to find some cool stuff you are missing. Come to think of it the Laptop you got runs Vista! Hahahahahahaha, good luck with that.

Ok, didn't think I'd cause such a stir. First off, I wasn't trying to troll nor be sarcastic, I'm just a bit (lot) cheap. I'm sorry to come off that way (as I must have, considering the responses)

Thanks to the best invention ever made by man in my pocket, my precious iPhone, I'm really considering and attempting to embrace and enter the Mac world.

But the 13" screen was a deal breaker. And grammy just doesn't need a Macbook pro to check her quilting websites (she's my mother in law, but I've got 3 kids, so we call her grammy, just to clarify). She already has a dell desktop, which I hate, but she's not replacing that yet. She just wanted a laptop to take with her in the living room, quilting room, that's all.

But when she's ready to replace her desktop, she's definitely getting an iMac, or maybe even a Mac mini. And as much as I love her, I do not enjoy working on her computer. Nor any of the other 15 family members I support for free. It sucks being the computer expert in a computer illiterate family. Some of them ONLY call me when they need pc support, the rest of the year I don't hear from them.

And I'm not mad at Apple over the price, they can charge whatever they want. And although my iPhone was obviousely overpriced, I would pay it again in a heart beat. (I even bought my wife one as soon as the price dropped)

I'm thinking I'll get my wife a Mac mini next (do they support boot camp?), and even get a Mac for me at some point, although now, my iPhone has already replaced 75% of my PC time at home.

What I really have my eye on is the Apple TV. But it definitely needs more storage (for what I would want to use it for). Can you mod in 1 TB drives into those things? I would love to put a large chunk my DVD's on that thing, that would be super sweet.

From Marcos to Mark,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and a prosperous one for Apple.

Dec 24, 07 - 03:07 pm Comment from: jjjj

ping,

"Forgot: The screen size is much less of a problem with MacBooks since all of them have DVI outputs to drive up to 24" displays digitally at full quality (MacBook Pro: up to 30")."

fwiw My old MacBook white CoreDuo 1.83 can drive both it's own screen and a 1920x1080 screen at the same time, as I've had it hooked up to the HDTV quite a few times. ( hooked it up just now to back in the glory of the all-powerful MacBook)

the best part - IT JUST WORKS. thank you Apple!

To my Democrat friends,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

To my Republican acquaintances,

Merry Christmas, and for 2008, please try not to screw up the world any worse than you've already done. You could start by eliminating tax breaks for big oil and giving them to renewable energy. Then you could stop pushing your religious beliefs on the rest of the country: prayer in schools, gay marriage, etc. You're worse than the religious police in Iran, for Christ's sake!

Dec 24, 07 - 03:18 pm Comment from: kenh

Mark : just finished a pass through the educational system last year in order to get my teaching certificate as a non-traditional student who has been in the real world for 2 decades.

You caused me to have flashbacks to my education classes where you are required to regurgitate that kind of language!

The good thing is that most of my students see through the stuff. It's unfortunate they have to wade through it. But they learn quickly to fllter it out. Didn't know 7 graders had it in them!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Yo: But the 13" screen was a deal breaker.

I don't know her requirements, but not being familiar with the Mac you might have overestimated the limitations of the screen. With Exposé, the Dock and Spaces it is quite easy to work with multiple windows and applications. Properly setting everything up is the key.

For most people the MacBook is a light, easily portable and universal machine.


Yo: But when she's ready to replace her desktop, she's definitely getting an iMac, or maybe even a Mac mini. And as much as I love her, I do not enjoy working on her computer. Nor any of the other 15 family members I support for free. It sucks being the computer expert in a computer illiterate family. Some of them ONLY call me when they need pc support, the rest of the year I don't hear from them.

Then getting her a new PC laptop before that wasn't a very good idea - she'd have to deal with all of Windows' problems plus the differences between her iMac and her PC laptop... And you'd still have all the Windows support plus some Mac support on top.


Yo: And although my iPhone was obviousely overpriced, I would pay it again in a heart beat.

"Obviously"? How so? How many devices in its class do you know? Especially since it's the only one of its kind? Knowing a bit about device and software design, I'm astonished it can be as cheap as even the first offer was.

My impression is that people just love to bitch about everything, especially when others are already bitching about it as well.


Yo: I'm thinking I'll get my wife a Mac mini next (do they support boot camp?)

Sure. All Intel Macs do. As well as Parallels Desktop (or VMWare).


Yo: What I really have my eye on is the Apple TV. But it definitely needs more storage (for what I would want to use it for). Can you mod in 1 TB drives into those things? I would love to put a large chunk my DVD's on that thing, that would be super sweet.

I would expect a new version of it if/when Apple has managed to get more studio support on the content side. A 1TB drive would probably be a problem with the current version - as far as I'm aware it gets very warm even now. It may also not have enough room for the largest drives internally.

Dec 24, 07 - 03:27 pm Comment from: LorD1776

I don't know whether Yo is being truthful or not, but I will take him at his word. I think if I were going to get a Mac for an older person, I would simply get the $599 MacMini and a 19" LCD (non widescreen) monitor. At a resolution of 1280 x 1024 most people would have no problem seeing it, but you could still bump it down to 1024 x 768 for a fuzzier but larger image. They can still be had for around $200. Add a keyboard, mouse and speakers for maybe $75 and you're set.

Depending on the persons age, it wouldn't be wise to get a laptop. If they used it on their lap they might fall asleep and somehow drop it. That could happen just carrying the thing.

I'll admit, I don't like the fact that everything is going widescreen. The resolutions are too high, and LCDs don't handle rescaling like CRTs did. I guess when I have to replace my 14" iBook (heaven forbid!) I will start bitching like they are about the glossy issue.

jjjj: fwiw My old MacBook white CoreDuo 1.83 can drive both it's own screen and a 1920x1080 screen at the same time

Of course - dual monitor mode is sweet.

(The MacBook Pros can drive a 30" screen in addition to their internal ones as well, of course.)

@Marty
"Great one Mark. Funny how the libs start attacking. The truth hurts democommies."

Yeah, that one response (at the time you posted) was a real frontal assault. Congratulations for making it through with your prejudices intact.

Dec 24, 07 - 03:57 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Well, I was too slow posting and missed Yo's reply. Since he really needs a laptop, my comments don't apply. It sounds like he did what he had to do under the circumstances. I probably would have done the same.

I sure don't blame Yo; I blame Apple. Why the hell do these companies apparently have to gear everything for the young? It's not just computer monitors. Magazines and newspapers are notorious for this. They seem to have the idea that because they have the easy ability to use thousands of different font styles in sizes all the way down to "Honey, where the hell is my scanning electron microscope", that they should!

The population is aging and it doesn't get any easier. All I have to say to anyone who scoffs at this is 'Whatever goes around, comes around'. Merry Frickin' Christmas!

Poor, little, sensative, demotrolls. Chrissyone, Chris, etc. The Republicans are making the world a safer place. You libs would put your tails between your legs and surrender to the bad actors of the world if you had your way. Thank goodness you have no real say in what happens. That teacher is one of the major problems in the US school systems today. Fantasy land garbage.