“The absence of FireWire ports is certainly an inconvenience for some users. But it shouldn’t be considered a deal-breaker for most of us, anyway,” Peter Cohen writes for Macworld.
“FireWire has long been the preferred interface for some Mac users who want to hook up an external hard disk drive. It also caught on with camcorder makers, and that’s really why most people are upset. A lot of standard-definition (SD) video cameras have relied on FireWire for the past few years… FireWire also comes in handy if you’re transferring large amounts of data between machines,” Cohen writes. “A special operating mode called Target Disk Mode (TDM) lets you reboot your laptop (or other FireWire-equipped Mac) to appear to the host machine as a storage device.”
“Setting up a new computer? FireWire TDM is good for that, too. Apple’s Migration Assistant makes it a lead pipe cinch to transfer your user account information, data and applications to a computer connected using TDM,” Cohen writes. “But Migration Assistant also works computer-to-computer if you have an Ethernet cable, which is more readily available and cheaper than a FireWire cable. And new MacBooks—as well as most Macs that have been shipping for the past several years—have Gigabit Ethernet ports on them.”
“Connecting a camcorder is, admittedly, a bit trickier. And this is certainly a sticking point for the many Mac users who want to edit their own video [but] it may be an opportunity for you to upgrade your camcorder,” Cohen suggests.
Cohen writes, “FireWire’s absence is certainly disappointing and will surely be felt for a while by Mac users who had invested in peripherals that use the interface, but I suspect most people will make the transition, and will ultimately find that they’re not missing much by making the switch.”
Much more in the full article here.
Oh, sure, a replacement camera for me would only cost another 5k…..and the replacement uses firewire, so….
I am using my iMac to edit my video, I don’t need FW in my laptop
@ QuadCore
Boy I’m sure getting sick of you video camera whiners.
If your camera costs $5,000 then paying an extra $700 to get the Pro laptop with the FireWire port seems like a no-brainer.
Seems to me that most of the complaints are coming from folks that call themselves “video professionals” on the one hand, while claiming that they use cheap gear like the old MacBook on the other. It can’t be both ways.
Absolute terrible decision on Apple’s part.
If they wanted to phase out firewire, they should have at least made a transition or a way that users could add firewire via a card slot or something..
As it is many users are stranded, with either and audio interface (Apogee Duet,) a firewire only video and or/external drives that are all virtually useless with a new MacBook..
An Apple wants us to spend $2000 on a MBP just so we can transfer a home movie for iMovie?
F*** Off Apple, you blew it big time..
@ Jeremy
Precisely.
And can’t MDN leave this one alone now? Please?
“…opportunity for you to upgrade your camcorder,” Cohen suggests.
Is this guy high? So buying a new macbook now presents us with the following OPPORTUNITIES:
– an OPPORTUNITY to buy new peripherals when our old ones are great at what they do.
– an OPPORTUNITY to buy a $30 adapter to connect to our existing Apple (or any other) display.
– an OPPORTUNITY to turn getting data from a sick macbook from a cinch to a daunting process.
THE OLD WAY: hold down a key and plug in a cable.
THE NEW OPPORTUNITY:
– unscrew & remove the HD
– go buy a $30 USB-SATA adapter kit
– Assuming you live anywhere near a specialty computer shop that carries them…
– Otherwise, mail-order. Wait 5 days.
– attach power & data cables to delicate SATA interface.
If we wanted these kinds of OPPORTUNITIES we’d have bought Vista.
Meh. I’m recommending AGAINST this new Macbook for my clients specifically on the TDM issue. Ballmer’s “Apple tax” has been made real.
Sometimes, I think the wealthy decision makers at Apple (and certain journalists) are out-of-touch and don’t “get” that “most of us” don’t buy new camcorders every year, or can simply replace multiple FireWire drives, and throw out the old ones.
This is surprising, because Apple usually makes smart decisions about when to remove a specific technology. This is not good timing, considering consumers currently are less likely to spend money on expensive new camcorders to replace old ones that work perfectly fine.
I have a nice non-HD prosumer DV camera from a few years ago. I really don’t need “an opportunity for you to upgrade your camcorder,” as Peter Cohen explains. Fortunately, at this time, I don’t need an opportunity to by a new MacBook either.
Waaah – I want a MacBook with firewire and BluRay etc, etc – for $399 and a free iPod to go with it. Throw in a free 10K camcorder too for good measure. I can get all this and more at Dull or HP so they tell me.
The firewire port is only ONE of the problems with the new MacBook. It also lacks:
– a PS/2 port for my existing keyboard (cost 200$ back then)
– a parallel port for connecting my printer
– a serial port for my mouse
– a built-in modem (and thanks to the lack of the serial port, I cannot connect my existing 33.6k hardware!)
– a third, fourth, fifth and sixth USB port for my keyboard lamp, my mini-plastic-rocket launcher and media card reader (all of which I keep connected to my DELL at all times)
– a built-in media card reader for my collection of historic flash card formats
Outrage! If Apple keeps dropping support for existing, functional, expensive and useful equipment I will keep buying cheap elsewhere!
@ Jeremey
And I’m getting sick of people that don’t use Firewire weighing in on others that do and saying they are “whining”. If you don’t use it champ, that’s great, but there ARE uses for it where there is not a better solution.
Music recording interfaces come in both USB 2 and Firewire 400 but USB 2 is well known to not handle multi-track recording as well as Firewire. And while I have a MacBook Pro, I know of other musicians and audio students that a MBP is a bit out of reach. So this is not just a matter of “upgrade” the audio interface like a camcorder. 1. USB doesn’t work as well. 2. I am not aware of ANY Firewire 800 audio interfaces (if I’m wrong, then maybe this will change), so not an option (without an adapter on the new MBP).
This is not the same situation where Apple ditching the 3.5 floppy drive for CDs was a clear technical jump. USB2 is not faster than Firewire 400 (burst vs. constant throughput), and is in no way a forced jump “forward”. It’s quite the opposite.
Speak for yourself.
No FireWire is BAD. I’ve never been so pissed at Apple! And I own a MacBook Pro!
USB is a joke for anything but input devices and low capacity thumb drives.
FireWire is better in every way for external hard drives, Target Disk Mode, Time Machine backups, etc.
It is like MSFT has an army of human bots crawling these forums spreading as much FUD and nonsense as they possibly can. These pc guys are real clowns. They come here just to show us how dumbed down their windows stuff is – We already know their cheap junk is useless at any price and should be free for that matter.
You go, Jeremy.
Too Bad, But it is a Deal Breaker for many! Even those without Video Cameras…
I won’t miss it since I am using an iMac and I only have one external Firewire device that has also USB 2.0 interface.
I like the fire wire, but I believe that eventually, apple will kill the fire wire because the new USB 3.0 has a lot of bandwidth and there is no reason to compete.
Boo Hoo – I am pissed because they do not have a floppy drive. Get over it dill weed.
@Mobiwan
You can plug any FW400 or miniFW device in to a FW800 port. All you need is a 6-to-9 or 4-to-9 pin cable. Shouldn’t cost more then 6-6 cable.
I hope Macbook sales slow to a crawl. I need a new laptop and unlike Jeremy I don’t have enough money to go buy that and a new camcorder. In addition I use ProTools 002 to make music and that demands firewire. So though I could use a new laptop (and had planned on buying one before the firewire news) I don’t have the money for a MBP so, guess what, I’m not going to buy anything. I’ll tough it out with my old laptop. One sale lost for Apple. You may think that unimportant but I bet there are many like me out there that have been waiting for this update and because of the lack of Firewire will simply not buy a machine at all. So, here’s to a huge dip in Mac sales. Suddenly the people at Microsoft aren’t looking as evil and disconnected from their users as they used to.
The new MacBooks have Firewire 800. But a stinkin’ Firewire 800 to 400 cable, and call it a day! What’s the big deal?
Stop your whining.
I think what Apple is trying to say to those who want Firewire and can’t afford a MacBook Pro is: “You aren’t the customers we are looking for”.
Jeremy,
Are you seriously saying that it is a no-brainer to pay $700 for a single firewire port? What people don’t seem to understand is the fact that you CAN do video editing on yesterday’s macbook. You CAN do video editing on the older G4 powerbooks. Many people can and DO these tasks on their older/slower computers without any problems. The issue is that the new MacBook is less capable for these people than their current older laptops. Apple has decided that people who want a smaller (13.3 inch) laptop have no options for upgrading if they want to continue using their firewire peripherals.
This has a huge impact on traveling musicians and the average at home video editors. I am NOT a pro user and have no desire for a screen larger than that of my current MacBook. However I would like to upgrade to the aluminum case, the nice new trackpad, and 4gigs of RAM. Apple’s current lineup doesn’t include a computer that I would buy. This is a big problem. I refuse to give up my investment of firewire peripherals and compromise by buying a machine that is larger than I want.
I’ve owned the following macs previously:
15″ titanium powerbook – too slow now so I upgraded
17″ powerbook – way too large for travel
12″ powerbook – too small for real work (resolution sucked)
13″ macbook – perfect size for me, but the case is cracking. had to replace the keyboard twice (cheap plastic).
I would love to add the 13″ macbook to my collection, but it is cost prohibitive to replace all of my peripherals.
Then buy a PC. Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
F’in whiners.
“The new MacBooks have Firewire 800. But a stinkin’ Firewire 800 to 400 cable, and call it a day! What’s the big deal?”
_________________
The big deal is the the new MacBooks DO NOT have a firewire 800.
There is absolutely no way to connect any Firewire device whatsoever.
The MacBook Pro has Firewire 800, the MacBook does not.
My sense is that Apple is using Firewire as a differentiator between the Macbook and Macbook Pro series. With both now aluminum and carrying dedicated video, there’s not much beyond CPU speed and screen size to distinguish them.
I’m not one to question customer frustration over the loss of FW as “whining”, but – like Rob – I see the iMac as a more logical platform for video editing given its better CPU performance and 20″ screen compared to the Macbook. But I understand that people want what they want, especially if it’s what they’re used to.
@ MacSince128k:
The new MacBooks have no FW ports.
@ all the complainers:
Why do you have to buy a new MacBook? If your old rig is working fine with your current camera and backup setups, then don’t upgrade. Or wait a few months, save up some more money, and buy a MBP.
However, this may spur some peripheral makers to develop a FW to USB2 adapter.
@MobiWan
There is at least one FW800 interface the RME Fireface 800 (http://www.rme-audio.com/english/firewire/ff800.htm). One of the best in its categorie. THat also means that you can daisy-chain FW800 drives to it and have absolute great performance.
I can understand the lack of FW on low(er)-cost Macs, but the new MBs are more expensive than the previous ones!!!
Apple as turned a nice “swiss army knife” into another “luxury” item. I think that’s sad.
MDN Magic word = money, just what Apple is after.
Wow all these people have all this money to spend on Mixers, Midi devices software that cost many thousands and then bitch when they can’t the one item that holds it all together for cheap. Grow up people and spend a little on your computer.
$5000 for a new camcorder and bitching about a $1799 computer. If you can haul around a camera that big I think that a 15in laptop will be just fine.
What nobody in this forum is going to bitch about the glossy screen??????
@Masa
I know there are adapters, but the deal is when you are dealing with a connection where stability of the connection and timing are important, you want to avoid adapters or cable switches as much as possible. Even though I could daisy chain other firewire devices on the same link as my audio interface, I don’t. That link is kept dedicated.
@mjteix
Thanks! Actually hadn’t come across that one yet. I’ll check that out. Maybe because of Apple’s decision the audio manufacturers are going to start moving towards 800. That is unless they are worried Apple is going to drop FireWire all together.
@Old school
Hey, you know your PS/2 keyboard came with a USB converter.
Don’t give me that.
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Sign the Firewire petition…. 2300 signatures and growing. With this amount of signatures in one day, this will be picked up by the media.
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/MB1394/petition.html
I am really tired of all these so called professionals – Musicians, Video editors, photographers, bitching about an ability of a CONSUMER machine. They call them MacBook PRO for a reason.
@Mr. Reeee
If you own MBP, then why are you complaining?
If you decide to upgrade, you will most likely get another MBP, right? Well, MBP does have a FW, so quit whining.
What like it hasn’t been picked up by the media?
Everyone once thought AAPL was crazy for dropping the 4-inch floppy disk slot, too. Firewire is so 20th century.
It should be considered a deal breaker and it is a deal breaker. I’m not buying another MacBook until they put it back and I will recommend others hold off as well. Considering the fact that I was one of the first people to start recommending Macs since about 2002, that’s going to lose Apple a lot of sales.
Grrrilla “I think what Apple is trying to say to those who want Firewire and can’t afford a MacBook Pro is: “You aren’t the customers we are looking for”.”
I think you hit the nail on the head.
bizlaw “However, this may spur some peripheral makers to develop a FW to USB2 adapter.”
USB cannot handle the same bandwidth as FW. So this is not a solution. There exists fairly expensive Windows only USB to FW solutions but they don’t work very well and would not allow you to run a FW signal through them fast enough to function the same way as a true FW connection would. They don’t even work as fast as the much slower USB 2 signal runs, let alone FW.
This is an unnecessary problem created totally by Apple to either save a few pennies in manufacturing costs, to force customers to pay 700 more for a laptop for a connector, or for pure aesthetic reasons.
USB 3 might be better than FW400 but it’s not here yet, this was a bad decision and clearly premature. Leaving existing customers with no adequate solutions other than buying end of life technology, or buying PC hardware.
the solution to your problems is simple. get an HP or a Dell. thankyou very much and good day.
What like it hasn’t been picked up by the media?
————-
The petition hasn’t…. yet…
Firewire is SO useful. And you can’t daisy chain USB drives.
Apple blew it!!
For $999 you get Firewire, but for $1,299 you don’t.
Weak!!
msr “It should be considered a deal breaker and it is a deal breaker. ….going to lose Apple a lot of sales”
I didn’t like when they took the FireWire out of the iPods, but this is far worse. The lack of FireWire was bad enough on the MBAir, but the MB is unacceptable.
There’s clearly room to have the port, and it’s already there on previous models.
“Everyone once thought AAPL was crazy for dropping the 4-inch floppy disk slot, too. Firewire is so 20th century.”
You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. FW400 is faster and more capable than USB 2, USB 3 is not here yet, and there are tons of uses for FW where USB is not a solution at all. This bad decision will cost Apple sales, period.
All they had to do was include a tiny 1″ port and they would have sold more 1300 laptops, but they apparently don’t want that extra money or those customers.
Nation of whiners, man.
@whiners
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if your so ‘poor’ why not just buy the $999 old macbook, doesn’t that still have firewire? Am I wrong, or are some people just being hard to please? The fact that you’d even buy a Macbook for $1300, when you could buy a refurb, Apple warranteed Macbook Pro for $1349 means you’re probably out of your mind anyway, or is it me?
I personally believe the whiners aren’t considering their options.
Daisy chain or plug them all in a hub….Hmmm not really a good argument.
Hell my epson scanner has both Firewire and USB but there wasn’t an OS-X driver that works with Firewire so I have to use USB.
Actually, it was a deal breaker for my daughter. She was thinking about a new MacBook, and when told about the no FW, she decided to hold on to her old one until it dies.
And about those glossy screens…
I’m thinking about getting another of the last matte screen MacBook Pros, and ride it out until the boneheads in Cupertino figure out they were wrong on the no matte screen option.
ipod Boy “They call them MacBook PRO for a reason.”
Because they cost more money.
Are you seriously trying to justify that everyone that wants to hook up devices to a 1″ connector should pay 700 dollars more for that “privilege” that or use end of life technology?
I’m as much of a flavor-aid drinking fanboy as the next person but this was a sorry weak ass decision by Apple without a good explanation. This is not progress this is a serious step backwards.
The biggest argument against all you whiners is that you aren’t even listening to those that are trying to explain things to you. MobiWan can’t even spell my name right!
If you read these comments, and some from previous articles on this site and on all the main Apple forums and sites you will see for every ten or twenty whiners, there is someone like me who points out (logically) how you are basically wrong on most everything you are saying.
You will also be hard pressed to come up with a single logical, *reasonable* voice arguing for your side, which is why I am now calling you all “whiners” at this point.
For the record, I am in favour of FireWire, always have been and I wish it was still around. Most everyone trying to make you whiners see how stupid you look is as well. I am however a REASONABLE and ADULT human being (unlike you guys).
It seems to me that if you don’t “get it” by now you never will, so I am through baby-sitting for the time being.
Have a nice time crying in your beer.
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I guarantee the majority of people who will buy the new MacBooks will never have the need for Firewire. STOP THE WHINING.
Hell I have already seen people using the new machines out and about only 2 days after they were available – that is the fastest yet.
First Floppy Discs then Cathode Ray Tubes and now FireWire 400.
What the hell is next? Hard Disc drives?
Oh! Yes, I guess that is next, isn’t it?
If only Apple was more like Microsoft and didn’t leave obsolete technology and legacy ports in the dust so quickly. I really miss booting OS 4 off that second 800 kb floppy drive and seeing it on that black and white 9 inch screen.
Good times.
USB 2.0 provides lower performance than FW400 and no isochronous service.
Apple is providing less for more! And some people seem to like it!
People seem to forget why Apple put FireWire in to begin with. I remember the Keynote “Digital editing is the future” Hell the mac even shipped with a FireWire cable to hook to your camera. Now that all of the consumer cameras do NOT have FireWire there is no need for it in a CONSUMER device. Get over it people It is a CONSUMER device for a reason. If you are a PRO you shouldn’t be buying these just like any PRO on the PC side would never buy a $399 laptop.
@JEREMY (there, happy now??)
So, we’re childish and unreasonable and yet you b*tch about a typo and declare yourself the winner? You really are a genius. How foolish I was to make a point and use logic (which you ignore) and not just my desire to shut other people up. Thank you for being a model human being.
BULLSHIT!!!
Macs have gotten free facetime on TV for years — originally on Seinfeld, more recently on shows like House, Numb3rs, The Sopranos, 24, The Big Bang Theory, the CSI shows. I’m sure there are countless more.
Have you ever stopped to think about why this is, beyond the “Mac is Cool” factor?
It’s because Apple has always empowered the creative types to reach beyond their capabilities, to achieve more. (“Here’s to the crazy ones”, anyone?) In turn, the creative types, when they bloom into successful professionals, insist on featuring the Mac because that’s what inspired them to become what they are.
I say this as a stockholder and 22-year veteran of things Apple and Macintosh.
The omission of the Firewire port on the Macbook is a very unfriendly move by Apple, in that for the very first time, instead of empowering, Apple is restricting the things you can do with a basic Mac. The people who will be affected are the very people who have made the Mac the legendary creative computer that it is: the crazy ones. Young, creative kids in junior high, high school and college, who work on music or video projects in their bedrooms, who can’t afford a Macbook Pro but would sure love to get a Macbook, who would continue to use Macs throughout their career as successful musicians, screenwriters, actors, whatever. Because of their existing legacy Firewire equipment — audio and video hardware — the new Macbook is not an upgrade option for them. These potential customers are no longer in Apple’s marketing plan.
That’s very sad. Sorry to see Apple cashing in on its reputation and instead going for the big dollar. I guess that idealism is for sale just like everything else.
It isn’t a difficult decision to make! No Firewire, no Sale. I can really only say this because I can get along – quite nicely, thanks – with the retread model. You know the one, still in white plastic? 5% faster CPU? Half the RAM (I can fix that). $300 less expensive. That one. Now, SURE … I’d LOVE to have the updated graphics from the newest model – the one that’s more than a modest warm-over. And the bigger this, that, and the other. But, I don’t NEED any of those things. So, I’ll stay back here on the trailing edge. Not far. Just a bit. I do NEED the FireWire – and I can get it. No problem, no whining.
“In addition I use ProTools 002 to make music and that demands firewire. I don’t have the money for a MBP so, guess what, I’m not going to buy anything….”
You’ll edit Pro Tools on a 13″ monitor? If you really need FW, there’s always the White MacBook. It still has FW400 and is a sweet machine for $1K.
Just shut up and buy the MacBook and network it to your existing set-up. Why the hell do you need a laptop if you are creating in your bedroom? an iMac will do quite nicely. If it is a laptop why do you want to have a cable dangling and hooked up to all this stuff anyway?
The rudeness of some of the people here is really quite sad. Makes me wonder if you’re Windows converts.
WhooHoo: Can’t very well take an iMac to class now, can you?
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Dialtone: Sure, the white one works fine, while it’s still available. Do you think that’s forever? Are you looking beyond next week? Do you enjoy getting screwed buying end-of-life technology?
The future of the lineup is the aluminum style, and the base model is sadly deficient. For those of you who need Firewire in a basic laptop, can’t afford $2000 for the MBP and don’t want to buy last year’s model, you understand what I’m talking about.
Tens of millions of video cameras – even the most modern Hi Def ones – us DV tapes for video storage and firewire only for video transfers.
Apple just said goodbye to tens of millions of people who own fire wire based video cameras.
And let me repeat this one more time so Mr. Jobs gets it real good…
Flash drive cameras and hard drive cameras use USB II for transfer to the computer… but iMovie and Final Cut are not capable of accepting the video files for editing as they come from the camera. They rely upon propriety programs from the camera manufacturers to convert the data to a codec that iMovie and FCP can use.
The problem is they drop frames and un-sync the sound.
They simply don’t work.
Don’t believe me… take your flash drive based Hi Definition video camera to your Apple store and say “Please put this video into iMovie and edit it” and watch the fun.
DV Tape-based video cameras use firewire and they work with no problems. That’s why there are tens of millions of them in use.
Steve Jobs… this is a big deal, because very few of those folks will buy your MacBook once they discover the computer is incapable of editing DV video.
@PC Apologist
Keep whatever you are using now and stop whingeing – unless you really want the new MacBook because it’s so beautiful.
If the iMacs have Firewire 800 then the new MacBooks should have it as well. They can both now be used beyond the consumer level for Pro use.
Apple needs to keep on converting Windows users but they also must not forget the faithful Mac users who got them to this point. All us Mac users who consistently empty their wallets for new Macs.
These are tough times and buying all new peripherals (new HD camera) is not in the cards for those who were planning on just the MacBook purchase.
Apple, add that FW port back on there!
I have a new $700 AVHD HD camcorder and the video comes in just fine into iMovie and it is quite a joy to use I just select whatever clip I want to import and bingo it is in – no more trying to import off tape scan wait import wait scan some more import wait.
Hell my DV camcorder started eating tapes and now i don’t have to worry.
I have a number of SCSI devices in my basement if anyone wants to buy them. Becauseof that I buy OWC HD’s that come with FW 400, 800, and USB 2.0.
MW-prudent
A lot of the camcorders out there record directly to DVD you know those little DVD’s that get stuck in the slot load drives …. Ah great I can’t use my MacBook for those either thanks Apple. My old iBook had a tray drive in it which worked with those small disks I guess I will have to keep it.
“but I suspect most people will make the transition, and will ultimately find that they’re not missing much by making the switch.”
Perhaps to hardware that has firewire, but may need a little push to run OSX. Heck I never even thought if doing so till now.
To Old Guy With A Beard:
I said it yesterday, and I’m saying it again: you are wrong about those USB2 camcorders and FCE/FCP/iMovie. There are no proprietary programmes, iMovie 08, FCE and FCP can import HDV and AVCHD video without any issues. It is the same as in iPhoto: you connect your AVCHD camcorder (with USB2 cable); click on the camera icon (in iMovie), thumbnails of your clips show up. You can review them individually before importing, choose which ones you want to import and click ‘Done’. They get imported (transcoded) into AIC (on iMovie) or Apple ProRes (in FCE/FCP). No frame dropping, no sound un-syncing. It just works. It’s a Mac, after all.
What amazes me the most here is that all the vocal comments seem to say that they are now left stranded. I don’t understand; did Apple just somehow remotely deactivate FireWire ports in your existing MacBooks? How are you stranded? If you are one of those who have one or more FW peripherals (miniDV camcorder, audio interface, HiRes scanner…), that only means that your current computer already has FireWire. So where is the problem?
Now, if you were holding off for the past six months on that iBook (or MacBook CoreDuo) upgrade, waiting for the MB refresh, now that the refresh is there, you have several options. You can pick from any of the refurbished existing models (MB, or MBP), which are cheaper than they were last Friday, or, if you MUST have a Mac that comes in a white box instead of a brown, you’ll have to add $700 to your budget and get a MacBook.
All the comments regarding the need for FW here are very subjective, and therefore legitimate (you can’t really offer as a solution a computer with bigger screen if small is the size they want). However, just like with glossy screen, they represent minuscule percentage of MacBook-buying population. As representatives of that group, you may be annoyed, but decision has been made for you.
You can imagine how left-handed people feel when virtually all mechanical can openers out there are designed for right-handed people. And they represent significantly larger percentage of can opener-buying population than the “Save the FireWire” group here.
No, Apple does not make the computer you want. You’ll have to look elsewhere.
Oh, and you know nothing of what this will do to Apple’s sales and your unfounded predictions may make you look foolish in another year.
Did anyone here notice how MDN has put several stories today that all point to lack of FW? Normally we call this kind of writing ‘hit whore’; out of top 5 most commented stories, four are of the ‘Save the FW’ type.
Obviously, we love to argue over this (myself included).
Well this proves that everyone wants a new MacBook – and I don’t see Apple forcing you to buy a new machine so there is absolutely no way you can be “stranded” they are not forcing you to buy.
SHUT UP
Thank you – Predrag
You hit the mail on the head. You would think that Apple is taking all of these peoples computers away and giving them a new one without FireWire. Their old computer is not obsolete they just want a new pretty one. That is why Apple is so successful.
You know, Microsoft has been ignoring their customers for years. It resulted in Vista. Is Apple starting down the road to its own Vista?
Like it or not — all you people who insist on yelling SHUT UP — we who are unhappy about the lack of Firewire are also Apple fans and customers. We have a vested interest in steering Apple to produce products we are willing to buy.
And as a stockholder, I have a vested interest in making sure Apple produces products that I think will be as successful as possible.
Grow up. Act like adults.
I’m amazed by all of the people that are saying that having a second computer (imac) is the solution. MANY people only have one computer. I used to have several computers, but my current MacBook had everything that I needed to replace them. Now I don’t have a desktop computer, why have one when my laptop can do everything? This isn’t going to stop my business or keep me from getting my work done, but it will keep me from upgrading. I was ready to click the buy button until i realized that fw 400 was missing. This hurts apple more than it hurts me. I’ll just have to wait until they release a 13″ that fits my needs. Otherwise I’ll keep this macbook until it dies and upgrade to a larger screen (even though I don’t want to).
I guess i could always buy a sony that has all the ports that I want and install a hacked version of OSX. This saddens me. I’d much rather give apple my money. It’s too bad they don’t want it.
This moving forward notion is total BS. You can’t move forward if they don’t provide you with something to replace what they think you don’t need anymore. Why couldn’t they have just waited til USB 3.0 came out? or better yet, why couldn’t they have added firewire 800?
The topic on Apple’s discussion forum titled “No Firewire; many possible problems” has 10,609 views and 386 responses:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1287
The Computerword article “Apple Users Rage Over Missing Firewire” has 29 pages of comments:
http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9117339
At MacRumors.com, the thread “New Macbook – No Firewire!” has 11.937 views:
http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=80
There are many more, all over the Internet, with similar levels of interest.
Obviously, this controversial topic has a lot of people very concerned.
So what am I supposed to do with my “CONSUMER” level audio interface made by apogee which is enodorsed on Apple’s website to work with Garageband?
I’m not a pro, music is a hobby, the MacBook is all the computer I need and can afford. I just need it to work with audio interface, camcorder and external drives.
Instead Apple gave me a big F U.
Here are some facts:
1. Firewire is not a “pro” thing–otherwise, why did Apple include it in the past in all Macs, regardless of cost or availability of USB 2 ports. I have a 2-year-old Panasonic DV camcorder that works perfectly fine. It is not a “pro” camcorder by any stretch of the imagination, but it does me fine for editing simple home video. Why should I have to get a new camcorder to get a MB (or pay $700 more to get a MBP), when this was something that was available before? It feels like the PC guy who says that if your peripherals don’t work with Vista, get new peripherals.
2. This brings up the second argument, which compares Apple dropping firewire in the MB to them dropping the floppy. NO. NO. NO. Floppies were obsolete, FW is not. And there was a work-around through external USB floppy drives. And floppies were being dropped to introduce new technology; pray tell, what new technology is being introduced in place FW in the MB? USB?
3. Apple has every right to differentiate between the Pro and Consumer laptops. However, this is not about the question of what rights Apple has. You do not differentiate by removing already existing technology; that is simply bad form. You differentiate by adding new technology to the MBP. In removing already existing, superior technology from the MB, Apple comes off as cheap skates.
4. It is legitimate for people working with firewire devices to demand a form factor that is less that 15 inches, especially as Apple provided that in the past. There is a simple compromise that Apple could do (and should have done). Incorporate into the Higher End MB either FW 400 or an express card slot–especially since they raised the price by $100. That would, in my opinion, solve the problem.
Peace
Ignorance is one thing, but I can’t believe that someone here thinks Apple gets TV shows to use Macs FOR FREE.
So some people want it all, what a surprise! They want the new aluminum case, but the cheap one, but not the cheapest one (which has FW), definitely not the expensive one. If you want, you can get FW. Jeeeez, you´re starting to sound like starbucks customers after they drop hazelnut for the medium size but still available in small or large.
Same here. Have a great Sony DV Camcorder, use it all the time, works perfectly, no need to replace it, yet.
Wife wants a nice small laptop to do iMovie editing, MacBook would be perfect.
The new model will not do it because I need Firewire.
To those that say buy the $999 model, yes that works for now, but I imagine Apple will replace that or stop making it sometime.
Then what.
Dear Ignorant — I mean, wannabe:
Read it and weep:
[url=”http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401670.html”]Apple Gets a Big Slice Of Product-Placement Pie
Movie, TV Roles Keep Firm in Ever-Brighter Spotlight[/url]
By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 15, 2006; Page D01
When scriptwriters of the hit NBC show “The Office” wanted the boss character to give a cool gift that the show’s co-workers would later resent, they had him hand out an iPod.
It was free publicity for the product, which is what iPod maker Apple Computer Inc. has come to expect from Hollywood.
A recent report by Nielsen Media Research prepared for the trade journal Hollywood Reporter found that Apple’s products were mentioned or viewed 250 times over the past four months on TV shows around the dial. Apple racked up more than four minutes of free exposure to audiences of “The Office” alone, valuable real estate during prime time. Other shows, such as CBS’s “CSI: NY,” Fox’s “24” and NBC’s “Las Vegas,” also prominently displayed products dozens of times during the same period.
Apple said it does not pay for product placement and would not discuss how its products make their way into television and films.
Click the link above and read the rest.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool…”
That URL was
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401670.html
Plus I loved the stat when the first iPod came out.
One CD of music transfers to it in 10 seconds.
I don’t think USB 2 is that fast.
It is unbelievably lame for this turkey to be telling everyone that no firewire “shouldn’t be considered a dealbreaker.” Oh yea??? Because why??? Is he going to replace everyone’s firewire peripherals with new USB equivalents. Is he going to personally assist all the MacBook buyers who have no idea how to transfer their data without Target Disk Mode? What a ridiculous article!
Video editing on a laptop – never thought the day would come when we would be doing that – now we think it is the norm so much so that it is creating all this discussion.
Stop whining about my whining. This was stupid of Apple –the folks who gave us ADC. I’m not buying, and I don’t care whether or not you agree.
I use FireWire for audio video and hard drives. This is indeed a deal breaker for me. Having to go with a MacBook pro will be beyond our department’s budget so we’re pretty screwed.
Not a dealbreaker?! – we had a MacBook with USB and Firewire, now we have a new “improved” version without Firewire … I guess it doesn’t matter if you want to “upgrade” and leave all your peripherals behind.
Older cameras run Firewire. Prosumer cameras run Firewire. Audio interfaces run Firewire not to mention the stack of hard drives out there. Not everyone who uses these things is a Pro or has money to blow on the Pro laptop or money to blow on replacing their current gear.
I work with audio. I have Firewire drives and a Firewire interface. I won’t be “upgrading” or buying the Pro (out of my budget) or buying the older run-out model.
Schools are the other losers in this equation – I doubt many of them are going to rush out and sell off their Prosumer cameras, drives and audio interfaces just so they can experience the dropped frames of USB2 video capture and out of sync audio.
All of this complaining and infighting is getting old.
Can’t we agree that there are people that this will affect who don’t have the extra cash in this economy to upgrade the other things they already have.
Can’t we just agree that there are those who don’t need firewire for what ever reason.
Hopefully Apple will supply a replacement for TDM.
If you have a problem with the new products, contact Apple. Complaining all over the web and judging others just makes us all look bad.
“Is this guy high? So buying a new macbook now presents us with the following OPPORTUNITIES:
– an OPPORTUNITY to buy new peripherals when our old ones are great at what they do.
– an OPPORTUNITY to buy a $30 adapter to connect to our existing Apple (or any other) display.
– an OPPORTUNITY to turn getting data from a sick macbook from a cinch to a daunting process.”
hahahahaha Yeah, buy it all new…. That’s what all you fanboys told me last year when it became obvious that Apple would no longer support my few year old PowerMac G5… I believe the chant was “Hey, just go by a new Mac Pro!!”
I suspect next few years Jobs will decide that all Intel chipset Macs are obsolete and the version of OS X will only support the Nvidia chipsets or higher.
And you morons will bitch for a few days and then go out and pay $1500 for a sexy and gorgeous new Mac that will run the newest OS – – – well until Jobs decides to change again…
Come on fanboys, go by a new digital camcorder and everything you have with a FW interface. In a few years, you can get in on the “Next Big Thing”..
NO FIREWIRE!
Apple, you seriously think people are going to dump their present camcorders, cameras and peripherals that work perfectly fine on their present computers to upgrade to your new MacBooks where they won’t work at all? Sadly, you’re wrong. At the very least, your timing is supremely bad. These are tough economic times for most of us. Oh, sorry, I guess you didn’t notice!
You’ve really pissed-off a whole lot of devoted Apple customers. Certainly this one.
Thank you, but I’ll give this upgrade a miss.
Apple and the whiners!!
So far I remember back in 1984, Apple always had its share of whiners who don’t get the way technology works!
Those people where bunch of complainers claiming Apple let them down with their Apple ][ and Apple III. And long is the list!! You need to move forward in order to benefit latest technologies. If you don’t accept it, you are not a customer for Apple you need to buy windows!!!!
If FW is so important, buy a MacBook Pro or a white MacBook. Is this really something so difficult to understand?
It’s not like from one day to another they stopped FW completely. But maybe you should be getting for it…
Spin, spin, spin. Stupid article. Obviously a lot of people do consider it a deal-breaker. What a debacle!
I can understand where Apple is coming from. I did hear somewhere that firewire was dying a slow death. USB3 is apparently coming. But then I also heard that a much faster firewire was coming too. But agree it is probably a little early to just dis firewire all together. There’s just too many devices out there that still need it.
I’m worried about the glass screen. Wouldn’t it crack more easily? When it’s in a school bag or whatever. The slightest twist or knock would crack the screen.
Just out of interest, has anyone managed to get video from a usb camera into iMovie. At my work a lot of cameras are usb hard drive based or record to mini dvd. Bottom line is there a usb camera that records in mac friendly formats? I know you can convert file formats but thats a pain and is double compression in a way. iMovie uses Quicktime in it’s guts, right? So I assume imovie can read any file that Quicktime can. Right?
whatever: “I guarantee the majority of people who will buy the new MacBooks will never have the need for Firewire.”
By definition, people who don’t care about FireWire will buy these computers and those that need it won’t. Duh.
“STOP THE WHINING.”
Sorry, forgot I was supposed to pray facing Cupertino 5x a day. I will give myself 47 lashings.
“Hell I have already seen people using the new machines out and about only 2 days after they were available – that is the fastest yet.”
This obviously proves that FireWire was a non issue, what were we thinking complaining about it??
Al “If only Apple was more like Microsoft and didn’t leave obsolete technology and legacy ports in the dust so quickly.”
Your examples were all weaker, less capable legacy tech being replaced by better newer Tech. This is a case of weaker tech replacing stronger more capable tech.
Try again.
Older Guy “If you are a PRO you shouldn’t be buying these just like any PRO on the PC side would never buy a $399 laptop.”
Let me get this straight, your argument is if I want a 1″ port that’s in previous generation MacBook I should pay 700 to upgrade to a larger laptop? Or buy end of life tech?
Appreciate your insights into this matter, really helped clear things up.
Solution: DON’T BUY A MACBOOK. Buy a MacBook Pro.
@Altivec Guru
So your Honda doesn’t come with Tires?
Solution: DON’T BUY A HONDA. Buy a Rolls Royce Phantom.
Some of you may not have the right information. But then, why those guys want to tell the others how it should go?
Read it and shut up please for once and all!
-because someone makes music or video, it does not mean he is a pro! there is a so-called DESKTOP market, plus people buy these things for personal entertainment, no commercial stuff. there are so much more of those people than PRO’s ! Why should they get a large Macbook Pro for their purpose? it is allowed to use your brain before you post!
-Those, who mention floppies, crt, serial port should consider decresasing their daily drug dose seriously. Firewire technology (400 or 800) are still superior, much powerful than USB. THAT IS THE REASON WHY AUDIO AND VIDEO HARDWARE PREFER FIREWIRE. (Get an USB1.1 Digidesign soundcard? please re-think your comment before posting and fooling other people!)
ultimately, those people who wants to teach me something they don’t even know about, why are allowed on public forums?
HOW STUPID ARE YOU GUYS ON THIS FORUM?
I’m a student who happens to have a FireWire Audio Interface and I am not a pro musician. Am I to spend 700 $ for a FW-Port?
Are you nuts? This is not at all comparable to the abandoning of floppy…The thing is, the more reluctantly you reply to the “whiners”, the more insulting you behave, the easier it gets to see that you’re disappointed as well. Differentiating product lines by one, cheap, omnipresent, popular connection type was not a good thing to do. Of course this won’t matter to 80 % of MacBook buyers but hey-who are the guys Apple used to depend on?One should not put off the most loyal customer base.
oho…older guy. so a macbook for up to 1500 equals a 400 pc notebook. what is going on here? for instance, as a amateur musician- what the hell do I need a MBP for? The better graphics? The 0,3 GHz difference? OMG…I got it..it is the FW port!!
thanks for that insight, guys.
@Not whining but not buying
How can you compare all the terrible stuff Microsoft did over the last two decades that got them in trouble with Anti-trust cases in both America and Europe with Apple dropping support for a port on a single model of laptop.
How many Dell or HP PC laptops come with firewire and how many come without?
Geez.
@Quad Core
Jeremy is oh so right on this one. If you can afford $5k for a HD video camera you can afford the extra $700 for the MBP. And you get two GPUs in the MBP which should help the frame rate no end.
Sheesh!
And TDM is only a way to turn your Mac into a over expensive HD enclosure. The drive comes out in like 10 seconds so buy a Firewire / USB 3.5″ enclosure. Slap in a double slot-in caddy that takes 2 x 2.5″ sata drives and you have an even better solution then TDM.
With this cheap but useful system you can not only have a couple of second drives that you can clone to or back up to on the road via USB. You can also have a quick swap startup drive in it for if you need to trouble shoot your system or your internal drive goes down.
Once upon a time…
Once upon a time, only Mac had FireWire plugs…
Once upon a time, PCs would keep on with floppy…
PC people would be sure Apple would die. Droping floppy was crazy… Trying to introduce FireWire was crazy…
Once upon a time PCs were ruling, it seamed…
Yet, Apple was innovating and others would follow…
“Yet, Apple was innovating and others would follow…”
Except now every “Innovation” Apple made on the hardware side has been ditched and Apple has followed PC vendor’s designs (Albeit with more stylish cases)
Ditching pointless niche processors and interfaces and reverting to Sameness and Windows compatibility has been the secret of the Apple’s resurgence, not difference and innovation.
“Yet, Apple was innovating and others would follow…”
Why then when you pull out a logic board (laptop or PC) is it the heir to decades of PC design not decades of Mac design? Apple just finally recognised that when others were better at innovating on the hardware side, they were better to join them then keep going their own way.
leaving out firewire on the macbook is the most stupid business-decision apple has ever made (besides the cube maybe). this is two years too early at least. macbook sales will certainly be much lower. 90% of the people shopping for a new laptop will probably be perfectly fine without a firewire port for the other 10 % it is a dealbreaker. what is the sense in saving 5$ a machine when you risk to turn off a sizable number of buyers?
anecdotal evidence: i have two people who asked me for advice which laptop to buy. budget: 1000-1200 Euro. i asked them what kind of peripherals they have, answer: camcorders and digicams. which port? don’t know, i will check it out. answers: IEEE 1394 the one and i.Link the other. there is no way they will buy new stuff because they want a new computer and no way for them to spend 2000 on a macbook pro.
@Ralph
“leaving out firewire on the macbook is the most stupid business-decision apple has ever made… macbook sales will certainly be much lower.”
This won’t hurt Apple sales at all. They’re going to sell a boatload of MacBooks as well as the high-end machines. Apple will sell record numbers of Macs in the Fourth quarter.
In thirty years of buying Apple products, I have experienced a lot of pain and joy, and on so many levels.
I’ve been shamed, ridiculed and teased but no one could deny in the early Eighties I made the best fucking garage sale signs and flyers ever imagined. I’ve made music and pictures, played games, compiled, and wasted countless hours trying to make things work!
Apple has always been on the bleeding edge, especially where I/O is concerned. Remember the Supermod, grappler, transwarp? And what about the PC transporter that was supposed to let me run IBM software? Yeah right what a fucking headache and waste of money it all was.
I spent a fortune on those devices and they often worked intermittently or not at all but who are you gonna call? Luckily we had user groups to commiserate with. The manuals were sometimes photocopied, stapled pieces of crap with black and white illustrations you couldn’t even see. Like the one that came with my first Apple computer!
I cursed Apple all through the Eighties and Nineties. Over RF, RCA, DIN, MIDI, SCSI, Serial, you name it. Firewire has been no different and will take its place among all the other interfaces.
You know what else has been no different in these last thirty years? Apple’s indifference to my frustration, pain and suffering but, through it all I wouldn’t have done anything differently.
I’m a pro audio user and I have to have Firewire to connect to my Digi 003 and Liquid mix. I currently use and iMac which is amazing but I needed something more portable. I was waiting for the new laptops to come out before purchasing and am unbelievably upset with Apple for what they’ve done.
I’ve had to go out and buy a 2nd hand black Macbook – I’ve actually downgraded!
For the audio community and the music education community we HAVE to have Firewire. Schools can’t afford to go out and buy new camcorders and there aren’t even any decent USB2 audio interfaces on the market. Anything that has more than 2 channels uses Firewire.
“Anything that has more than 2 channels uses Firewire.”
So shut up and buy an Mac Pro.
@ Stop Whining
If that’s your response to legitimate concerns then you deserve the products you’ll inherit.
Not everyone is made of money – schools in particular can’t afford the MacBook Pros, nor to upgrade all their Prosumer cameras/ drives and interfaces.
Apple has screwed the education sector bigtime and all you can do is bend over.
“schools in particular can’t afford the MacBook Pros,”
The shut up and buy the white plastic macbook. And stop buying new FireWire stuff.
And this is the whole problem with buying Apple of course. You’re stuck with whatever Apple deems you can or can’t have. You can’t just go and buy a competitor’s hardware that does include Firewire. (Not unless you want to go back to Windblows, and that isn’t an option either).
Committing to Apple is a double edged sword. I think it’s why most of us have a love/hate relationship with Apple.
I’m really appreciating my G5 non-gloss screen iMac. I’ve got firewire, a great screen, but I need an upgrade, and I need a laptop. Still running Tiger. I went out and bought Logic Pro and an Apogee Duet firewire interface- a thousand bucks right there. I figured I’d go for a MB Pro after that investment, but was hoping the new Macbook could do the job. No firewire- I guess not. I’m wondering how long it’ll be before any new Mac and any firewire component is completely obsolete. Another consideration was just gettting a new iMac- but I hate their new screens, also. Maybe my experience with one will be different at home than at the Apple Store. I’m wondering how other audio people get by with USB MBoxes and other components. Is the case for firewire being overstated? But yes, I too am upset over the lack of choice.
” I too am upset over the lack of choice.”
Just shut up and buy the MacBook Pro.
You — stop whining: Just shut up. Go away and don’t come back. Your comments are unwelcome.
So, we’re just suppose to bend over and take it? They may be low end where Apple is concerned, but they’re expensive compared to the Sunday ads. We save more than those around us to have a better product, then we’re told to shill out another $700.00 to have yesterday’s options, but with a display we don’t want. Oh, and pay more than yesterday. Yes USB 3 is gonna be faster, and whatever we buy today still won’t be able to use that either. Fortunately I can get another year out of what i have.
My brother has been playing with Ubuntu, it’s looking better and it’s more stable than Windblows. If Apple isn’t careful Linux may just be what we need.
well the only people affects are those who edit video or audio and out of that small minority (say around 5% of Mac users) I’m guessing most of the professionals use a Mac pro which has seveal FW ports. Out of the remaining people possibly around 50% are sensible enough to use an iMac or Mac Mini with a decent sized screen. The remaining tiny percentage of occasinal users will either get a MBP or a cheap White MB. Now I can see a great opportunity for someone to make an intreface/box that simply plugs between a FW camcorder and a FW hard drive that allows the camcorder to dump DV straight onto the drive. much better than tying up your Mac with the lengthy import process. Any electronics engineers on here?
Tell me again that there isn’t an Apple tax and that all knowing Steve has my best interests. Next time Steve goes to talk, I’m gonna hide my wallet.
“Just shut up and buy the MacBook Pro”
—————–
I’ll shut up when you give me the extra $1000 to buy a firewire equipped MacBook Pro. Until then, you shut the Fu** UP.
At an additional 100-150 buck right?
Wow what a deal!
Sweet, the Firewire petition is now at 6500+ signatures.
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?MB1394
The topic on Apple’s discussion forum titled “No Firewire; many possible problems” new has 13,760 views and 450 responses (increased by 3,000 views in 24 hours):
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1287
At MacRumors.com, the thread “New Macbook – No Firewire!” has 13,261 views:
http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=80
These threads are generating almost 3,000 views per day — the Macbook was announced less than five days ago. There are many more threads like this, all over the Internet, with similar levels of interest.
Apple has got to be concerned. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a negative response to a new product rollout
I could get an HP Pavilion dv9820us laptop — with a 2.10 GHz AMD Turion 64-bit dual-core processor, 4GB RAM, 250GB HD, a 17″ screen, a LightScribe DVD burner, wired and wireless Ethernet, VGA and S-Video out, FOUR USB ports, FIREWIRE, PLUS an ExpressCard/54 slot (also supports ExpressCard/34) — for only $897:
http://www.amazon.com/Pavilion-DV9820US-17-inch-Processor-Premium/dp/B001635T7E
<u>IF</u> the Macbook had Firewire, I could probably justify (in my mind, if not my wallet) paying $1299, which is certainly a premium price. Comparing the Macbook to this HP, feature to feature, it’s impossible to justify… except that it’s a Macbook and it’s beautiful.
BUT… I could buy TWO of these 17″ HPs with hundreds of dollars left over, for the cost of a $1999, 15″ Macbook Pro.
Apple, what are you smoking? We’re on the verge of a serious recession, if not a depression, and your 15″ Pro laptop is more than twice the price of a fuller-featured, 17″ Windows laptop?
Apple’s pricing is absurd. The Apple tax is real.
mw: account. No kidding.
@ Old School
Don’t Forget –
Apple’s Proprietary ADB
Apple’s Proprietary MiniDIN Serial
Apple’s Proprietary DB-15 VGA Video Connector
Apple’s Proprietary HDI-45 Video Connector
Apple’s Proprietary ADC Video Connector
Apple’s Proprietary Digital Speaker Port
Apple’s Proprietary HDI-30 SCSI on Powerbooks
Apple’s Proprietary COMM Slots I & II
Apple’s Proprietary USB “Power On” keyboards
Apple’s Proprietary HDI30 SCSI
Apple’s Proprietary PhoneNet Connectors
Apple’s Proprietary Firewire => Dock on iPods
Apple’s Proprietary 2nd gen iPod Remote Connector
Apple’s Proprietary 3rd iPod Remote Connector
Infrared Remotes from the Performas
The Newton!
AAUI
DB25 SCSI 1
NuBus
PCI
PCI X
Next year, no one will give a crap about FW 400 going missing on the rest of the macs, the industry and the customers will adapt. Look for S3200 to take it’s spot in the future, if not eSata
@ Javbw
The ADC video connector…. hahaha, I’d almost forgotten about that one. 🙁 Back in the day, I had a 14″ Apple Multimedia Display that did 640×480 and had a couple of speakers and a microphone. It used that proprietary ADC connector, or you could get a $150 breakout cable.
Nice-looking monitor, but it would’ve been nice if it would have done 800×600 or 1024×768.
@oh no my shorts*
And what version of OS X will you be running on this HP Pavillion then?
Case closed
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I reckon some of you on here argue for the sake of it. A gadget that connects a hard drive to a FireWire camcorder to transfer DV over without wasting processor cycles and bandwidth on your mac is the best way possible. You can be editing one import while importing another. And if it was $100- $150 it would be amazing value. You seriosly must be a wintroll.
Weird…. MDN eliminates that Poll about the new MacBook,on the left side its site in which most people considered the lack of FW a deal-braker , then make this post online: “Apple MacBook’s lack of FireWire shouldn’t be considered a deal-breaker”
Did MDN follows orders from apple to get rid off anything that’s again the sell of their products???
And YES I am agree with many, many, many people world wide that consider not to buy MacBook without FW. People that don’t wanna be forced to let behind their FW hardware. People that really know the importance of having Firewire.
No FireWire on New MacBooks and also:
No eSATA
No expressCard slot
Just two, ONLY TWO stupid USB ports!
“I suspect most people will make the transition, and will ultimately find that they’re not missing much by making the switch.”
Speak for yourself, Bozo. I’ll hang on to my white MacBook, no new one for me. And no, it’s not about Camcorders, it is about reliable peripherals and about Target Mode.
Will I still be able to use Migration Assistant when transfering all my files over to a new MacBook?
Also what about firewire target disk mode?
How about all those people that want a sub-notebook, like 13″.
They are supposed to just move up to the 15″ to get Firewire?
So they have to lose the small form factor to get Firewire. I see many bands that use MacBooks during concerts and like the smaller size because it takes up less space and is lighter.
Yes they can easily afford a MacBook Pro, but they WANT the small size.
Many of the AUDIO components do not exist with USB, why, because USB is not reliable.
@ British Mac Head
“And what version of OS X will you be running on this HP Pavillion then? Case closed”
Ummm, if I were to actually buy the HP, then that would be XP, and as far as Apple’s concerned, definitely case closed.
XP is not unusable, it’s just old, and nowhere near as nice as OS X. But I can certainly be productive on it.
I’m simply not willing to have Apple dictate to me that all my Firewire peripherals now need to be repurchased just because they feel like dropping a port in order to differentiate their laptops. That’s bullsh!t.
I’m hoping that Apple will reconsider and correct this error by MacWorld 2009. If not, and if Firewire continues to be dropped on other models, then I will have to make a decision as to whether it’s worth it to stay on the Mac.
Never thought I’d type those words.
“If Apple isn’t careful Linux may just be what we need.”
The Shut Up and buy a generic PC.
“I’ll shut up when you give me the extra $1000 to buy a firewire equipped MacBook Pro”
If money’s a problem Shut Up and buy the white MacBook
“They are supposed to just move up to the 15″ to get Firewire?”
If you want 13″, Shut Up and buy the white MacBook
“Your comments are unwelcome.”
Sometimes you need to hear things you don’t want to hear. In This case, Stop Whining.
Apple still sells a 13″ Notebook with FireWire.
Apple still sells a 15″ Notebook with FireWire
Apple has told everyone that FireWire is now legacy technology, giving you time to migrate before FireWire disappears from the lineup.
So if you want FireWire, buy one of the Macs that has it, realize that in the next generation of that machine it’s probably the end of the road and Stop Whining.
@Stop Whining
“Apple has told everyone that FireWire is now legacy technology”
Actually, that’s untrue. Apple has said nothing. They’ve simply deleted a much-desired port from their base laptop computer, without any explanation or indication as to how this affects their future product roadmap. And that’s the problem — nobody knows what they’re going to do.
For audio and video enthusiasts, both amateur and professional, Firewire is not a legacy technology. It’s alive and well and is a critical need for almost all prosumer audio interfaces and video cameras.
There’s no viable replacement for Firewire for these applications. Therefore, as a result of this decision, Apple itself may become the “legacy technology” for many audio and video people who require Firewire. That’s unfortunate, because these are the most loyal, longtime supporters that Apple has.
It’ll be interesting to see how Apple responds to this furor at MacWorld ’09. Will they add Firewire back to the Macbook? Or will they delete it from the iMac next? That will be key for me in learning whether I can continue to trust Apple to produce a platform that meets my needs.
“There’s no viable replacement for Firewire for these applications.”
Completely untrue. For HDD there is eSata for much higher performance and USB for almost FireWire performance at lower cost.
For Prosumer cameras there are now HDD based cameras which will upload video over USB much faster than old tape based ones will over FireWire. there are only 12 current models of non tape based cameras which support FireWire, and models of HDD or Flash based cameras now outnumber tape based ones 3 to 1. So this is a problem for owners of legacy tape based FireWire cameras.
Since Mac owners claim to get 5yrs out of hardware, simply buy a Macbook now and worry about the problem in 5 years time.
“They’ve simply deleted a much-desired port from their base laptop “
Actually it’s gone from the mid range one, the base white MacBook still has it.
And those paying $6,000 for a camera or $1,000 for an audio interface have a choice, if they don’t want the $999 MacBook they can pay the difference for the Pro.
“It’ll be interesting to see how Apple responds”
As just noted, FireWire for video is going away, especially at the prosumer level. There’s nothing Apple can or will do to change that.
FireWire for external storage is already obsolete, offering only mid-range perfomance at a cost higher than faster alternatives. Most owners of 3yr old consumer level FireWire drives will get better performance by dropping $100 on one of todays USB drives. Anyone who wants high performance needs to move to eSata.
For computer to computer file transfer, Gigabit Ethernet blows FireWire into the weeds.
For $1,000+ audio interfaces, that’s a very niche market and those vendors will likely adapt their hardware just fine, now they can see that the last major supporter of FireWire is backing away from it.
@Stop the FUD
“Completely untrue. For HDD there is eSata for much higher performance and USB for almost FireWire performance at lower cost.”
I looked very hard but did not find the Mac you’re referring to that features eSATA as a replacement for Firewire.
As it’s been stated repeatedly here, USB is not a satisfactory interface for multi-channel audio interfaces (pretty much all of them are Firewire). From what I understand, USB is also not a satisfactory replacement for Firewire in video, despite your claims to the contrary.
The white Macbook is the base model today. However, it is 2-3 years old, it is end-of-life technology and it will be discontinued as soon as Apple runs out of stock. The aluminum model is the future of the line. That’s what I’m concerned with.
As I said, it’ll be interesting to hear how <u>Apple</u> responds. I really don’t care what your opinion is. It’s obvious that you have no investment in Firewire equipment and are therefore not affected by this change. You’ve made your lack of sympathy for the situation clear and I disagree with you.
Check out the “No Firewire; many problems” thread at Apple’s Discussion forums. There are now 15,000 reads and 500 responses in five days. Many people share my concerns.
I am complaining in order to let Apple know that I’m unhappy with their decision. I’m also sending emails to Apple Feedback and directly to sjobs@apple.com.
The complaining is going to continue, and you’re going to hear it a lot, so you might as well get used to it. It’s going to create a lot of negative press for Apple, and your arguing with the people who have a stake in this is only going to draw attention to the controversy and give Apple a bigger black eye. If that’s your intention, be my guest.
If Apple is a customer-focused company, they will respond, they will do the right thing and fix the problem. If they don’t, they’re going to lose a lot of formerly loyal customers. It’s as simple as that.
I was just on NewEgg looking at camcorders. Only 8 of 66 camcorders have FireWire. Of those 8, 4 have USB as well. The 4 that did not have USB cost $1200-3300 and recorded to tape.
You people are blaming Apple when you should be blaming the camera manufacturers.
Let me add one more thing to this discussion. As a professional system builder for over 25 years, the last thing I would do is specify a system with a 2 GHz processor, a 5400 RPM drive, and a 13″ display for movie editing. The plastic MacBook comes base with only 1 gig of RAM, 120 gig drive, and the X3100 graphics chip, which makes it an even worse choice than the aluminum MacBook.
If you want to edit movies with a an Apple laptop, then your only choice is the Pro. Anything else is just foolish.
“…and will ultimately find that they’re not missing much by making the switch.”
Very Microsoftian. Abandoning superior technology is always a bad choice. It really is that simple. Yes, there are workarounds and ways to avoid using Firewire. Is it a dealbreaker? No. But it is still suboptimal.
“First Floppy Discs then Cathode Ray Tubes and now FireWire 400.”
Those are not comparable, retard. Firewire is better than USB 2.0.
“Nation of whiners, man.”
You are one of them, douchebag.
“STOP THE WHINING.”
Please, stop your whining, bitch.
Having an opinion about something is not “whining”. Complaining about said opinions? Whining. Shut the fuck up, dumbasses.
“Abandoning superior technology is always a bad choice”
It’s no longer superior. HDD and Flash based USB cameras upload video 10x faster than streaming it real time over FireWire and give a better result than hoping the receiving system is fast enough to catch every single frame. That’s why it’s gone. The alternative is now an order of magnitude faster, cheaper and more reliable.
The requirement for real time response is now contained within the camera, not a requirement of the uploading interface.
“I looked very hard but did not find the Mac you’re referring to that features eSATA as a replacement for Firewire.”
Any Mac with ExpressCard or PCI-E can have eSata added for about $40.
“From what I understand, USB is also not a satisfactory replacement for Firewire in video, despite your claims to the contrary.”
That’s true ONLY if you’re trying to stream over it real time, not using it to upload files stored on HDD or SD etc. Only last year’s cameras try to do that.
“However, it is 2-3 years old,”
Which for a Mac means 2-3 years more life. Other than graphics card speed, the new 13″ Macbook is no faster. Is that obsolete too?
“they will do the right thing and fix the problem.”
They have. Steve’s told you via an Email that it’s obsolete at the consumer level (if you couldn’t see that for yourself already) and still gives you two models to buy while you transition.
So Stop Whining.
@stop whining and all the others who don’t live in the real world:
I’m the mother of two small children who have to eat, live under a roof, and get clothes and shoes. To raise my children properly, I have stayed home without pay for the last 3 years, which means that we have to survive on my husband’s moderate salary.
We use a five-year-old Kodak digital camera because it still works, we use a three-year-old high end mini DV Sony digital camera because my mother took pity on me and bought the 1400$ camera so I could film my first child after my cheapo old JVC mini DV camera died.
I have a 4 1/2 year old PowerBook G4 that I have repaired several times already through an extended warranty with the local seller which expires next summer. This is my 4th Powerbook (my first was an 180c), and while I was a student and then single and working, I had the income to blow over $3 000 for a new computer.
I haven’t had a desktop in over 12 years because I couldn’t and still can’t afford two computers. I don’t have the disposable income to buy a new MacBook Pro right now, and I don’t know when I will. I was, for the first time, envisioning the idea of purchasing a MacBook instead of the Pro when my Powerbook dies (hopefully not too soon) just to manage to drag things out until my children are in school and I return to work (not for another 4 years).
I can’t afford to buy new peripherals. I can’t afford a MacBook Pro. I use(d) my computer for work, home, and when traveling. I can’t use the Sony videocamera I presently own without Firewire, and I can’t buy an adapter to fit into a new MacBook since they don’t exist.
I have converted my husband, my entire family, many co-workers and dozens of parents and students from my school to Apple computers over the years. I have worked as a technical advisor for all the Apple computers at my school for free — and that was on top of my full-time teaching load — and fought tooth and nail to keep Apple computers at my school when the technical department at my school board tried to go the cheapo PC route.
So what is this loyal Apple user for the last 12+ years supposed to do? How am I supposed to feel? I’ve been told that all my years of loyal purchases and conversions of others means nothing, and that if I can’t spend more money to get less, then I’m not good enough for Apple.
The thing is, I don’t want to buy anything else. I want to continue buying Apple because it’s the only OS I want, and since we can’t afford two computers, I need to continue buying a laptop.
So go ahead, tell me to stop whining and shut up and bend over and take it, and forget about buying milk for my kids so I can get the MacBook Pro, or if I’m such a whiny loser I can go buy PC crap or go buy a refurbished computer that’s not that much better than what I have now with my upgrades over the years and costs as much as what’s out there now and is already partially obsolete…
And then when you grow a spine and grow up a little, we can talk rationally about how the real world works, and that there are a lot more consumers out there like me who are suddenly left with no viable Apple options if their present laptop dies in less than a year.
@ db
If you are still using a ” have a 4 1/2 year old PowerBook G4″ then you can replace it, when you need to for a used Apple laptop. Sounds like you couldn’t have afforded a new Apple laptop anyway by the sounds of your situation. From what you described, you could not have bought a new MacBook even if it did have firewire.
You need to go on e-bay and find a decent MacBook. Any of the Intel versions single or dual core would run circles around your old Powerbook G4, and they’d have the firewire port. Or if you can afford more money, buy a refurb. off Apple’s site or check http://www.PowerMax.com.
@db
They just don’t seem to get it, do they. I don’t know if they’re being deliberately obtuse, or if they were born that way.
You can sign a petition to Apple about the problem here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition.html
There are currently 7767 signers on the petition. If all 7767 signers were actually prepared to buy a Macbook (yeah, I know how unlikely that is, so sue me) but didn’t because of the omitted Firewire port… that’s $10.1M in lost gross sales. That’s bound to make somebody at Apple sit up and take notice.
You can also send feedback to Apple at:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html
Good luck, I hope you get your Macbook with Firewire.
“So what is this loyal Apple user for the last 12+ years supposed to do? “
Oh for god sake shut up and buy one of the closeout $864 MacBooks. And Stop Whining.
Or if you’re too poor for that, Buy a $350 PC.
“I want to continue buying Apple because it’s the only OS I want”
Sometimes when you’re poor, you don’t get to have everything you want.
“we can talk rationally about how the real world works”
It works like this: Poor people can’t afford to buy expensive computers so buy PCs for a fraction of the price.
“If all 7767 signers were actually prepared to buy a Macbook “
It’d be like Apple’s almost lost a morning’s worth of sales. Mac sales will be down 0.3% for the quarter!
“That’s bound to make somebody at Apple sit up and take notice.”
For what amounts to a couple of million in profit? When most of those people are actually going to buy some kind of Mac anyway? I doubt it. Even if Apple only saved $0.25 on each MacBook by doing this, they can still lose all those sales and be ahead in terms of profit over the year. That’s not even counting the number of people who give Apple the extra ~$1k for a Pro.
Steve Has Spoken. FireWire Is Gone. A year from now, you won’t even miss it. Move on.
Couldn’t care less about the camera and device connectivity.
TARGET DISK MODE!! Migration Assistant is USELESS if your target Mac won’t boot. FireWire doesn’t even need the host computer to be powered on!! As someone who supports 600 MacBooks, TARGET DISK MODE is a godsend. It even worked with SCSI. Will Apple develop some sort of USB version of TARGET DISK MODE? NO! They want me to use their clunky Migration Assistant? No thanks. I want to be able to pick and choose what I move from one drive to another. So, if the Mac won’t boot up, and I have no FireWire, how do you expect me to use Migration Assistant or ethernet? Hmmmmm? We will NOT be buying MacBook Pro’s for our student population. This just blows. Apple, you could have at least used the little DV FireWire port as the new standard FW port, and made it FW800, across the whole line.
All I can say is WOW! This was amazing to read. However, here is an opportunity for some genius hardware engineer to come out with a wifi or gigabit ethernet based docking system with the ports everyone wants. I remember reading that aspects of the firewire protocol were to be added into some wireless protocol, perhaps I it wasn’t agreed upon. The thing that fascinates me is that firewire also can be used as a networking interface so the new firewire 3200 could have probably replaced practically 3 interfaces: usb, ethernet and the older firewire if the market would have accepted it.
“So, if the Mac won’t boot up, and I have no FireWire, how do you expect me to use Migration Assistant or ethernet? “
Boot off a USB key. If the Mac’s so far gone that booting off USB won’t work, you probably have a hardware problem not a disk one.