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Yup

Awesome!!!... Go Apple!

There are still people that will try to compare diffrent configurations that are the 'same' and come up with lower prices on either side, especially the DIY people.

Whichever side is right, good for them, I don't mind paying a tad extra for an OS that's twice as good as it's main competitor, and if the hardware is even less expensive, that makes owning a mac all the more satisfying.

Dells are the masters of the bait-and-switch. I know I tried to buy a Dell instead of buying virtual PC - the damned thing (once configured to a usable specification) cost more than twice as much as the advertised price after rebates. That is just ridiculous. The automotive industry got in a lot of trouble for doing this, Dell should be subject to the same scrutiny.

Dell are the biggest purveyors of FUD among computer makers. Confuse and obfuscate. They're experts.

I think Dell's are just de-LIC-ious! I especially like their slot-loading drives. Though I think their "hard" disks can be a bit small. Ta-he-he-heeeee.

Good article. Too bad it's on a website few people have ever heard of.

as a mac-addict i say the following thing:
this article is crap and isn't an objective comparission
at all. There are a lot of shortcomings in it. I'm affraid Dell is still cheaper if you want a real comparative system.

...and if you start charging in the man hours of patching, anti-virus software, system reformats and buying in external help because the couple that bought that $299 system don't know anything about computers...

Apple is fifty times better value than any PC system. Its an open and closed case. Nothing to argue about whatsoever.

Having read the excellent post above - why doesn't Apple commisssion a survey on how much time an average Joe spends keeping his system going in the first year of its life. Be fun to see, no?

"Walk into the store, and you look around "

Dell has stores?

Dell Shopping Trip?

An Online Shopping Trip?

FINALLY! I've been saying this for years, having to purchase both Macs and Dells for school. I can _never_ get as good a machine from Dell for the price I pay for my Macs.....

It' why I bought a Powerbook instead of an x86 laptop.
Well that and I was tired of dealing with windows.

I couldn't find a linux laptop I liked and bought a powerbook after using OS X once.

At home I have an eMac, and have used them for over 15 years with very little trouble (some occaisionally from software, but not from hardware).

As work we use MS and Dell. 3 to 4 times a week I simply unplug it from the wall because just starting Word or Outlook crashed the XP machine. The Win 95 and 98 machines were never pacthed and won't start or shut down without intevention.

Tersely put - we have to run Dells and MS in the workplace, and every single person from the IT department uses a Mac at home.

A nice well researched blog, although I am not a fan of blogs at all. Most blogs are more opinion than journalism. His use of "drop the ball" was incorrect. Perhaps he meant to say "the other shoe drops" with reference to an unforeseen consequence. "Dropping the ball" means not upholding a given responsibility.

And let us not forget the total cost of ownership of a Dell vs. Mac; frequency of replacement, cost of repairs, cost of virus/spyware programs and subscriptions, and the additional time spent tweaking, adjusting, rebooting and reinstalling. The cost of replacement may soon exceed 2 Dells to each Mac as the G5 is a true 64-bit processor and its future has barely begun, while Microsoft and Intel have yet to make that leap on the consumer level. When they do, it will be nightmarish as Intel's 64-bit CPUs cannot run 32-bit code natively like the G5. Instead, they must use the much slower process of emulation. This means that your new 64-bit Dell runs your 32-bit aps slower than your older computer. Consumers don't buy 64-bit Dells for a lack of consumer software, and software manufacturers don't make 64-bit consumer aps because there are very few 64-bit consumer computers. This is the "Catch 22" world of Microsoft causing a huge slowdown in their technology. In many ways, Microsoft is causing their own demise and it is only amplified by Apple's innovation and technology screaming far ahead into the distance.

It will take awhile for the herd-followers to notice that an ever-increasing portion of the herd is splitting off and going in a different direction. This is why Microsoft has started their $100 million ad blitz; to try to distract their herd from noticing what is really going on.

I found the article just as blindly biased toward Apple as the author complained his friend was toward MS. The whole RISC vs. CISC thing was obnoxious and just plain wrong. He understands some of the marketing arguements of RISC/G4, but ignores the real-world.

In the real world of today P4 and Athlon are FASTER than G4/G5. It's sad I know. Yes PowerMacs are overall faster in some categories, especially supercomputing, but hopelessly slower in other categories.

That's just number though. In the real world where Joe Joe Billy Bob or your parents are going to use a computer, the processor speed means nothing. My mom has a 350MHz PowerMac and a 933MHz iBook and the bewildering speed difference (to me) means nothing to her.

When most folks think their computer is slow, simply getting a faster Internet connection does the trick. Buy a nice monitor too.

Speed is nothing except for speed freaks. Good components, like dedicated video are important for the long-haul. That 350MHz PowerMac runs Jaguar just great and is about to be upgraded to Tiger. If it were a PC it would be unbearably slow. At least to me.

Most people just want a system that runs right. They don't want to pay too much. Marketing has put it into their heads that they have to have the fastest possible CPU. That's because CPU is an actual measurement, one of the few that consumers can understand.

This article is sorely lacking of any real or relevant advice. It's just a narrow-minded rebuttal of a half-decently though-out list of issues.

I didn't even get into the issues. The author of that peice may have even been correct in his own right. It is scarry to have a complicated piece of hardware and software at home that you depend on, but no know how to maintain it. The rebuttal does nothing to help with that, but go on and on about how Macs cost less and are faster per clock cycle.

I'm not swayed. Well I am, but not by this Apple cheerleading rubbish.

Dell's advertised PC's are like car dealerships advertised vehicles. The dealerships advertise stripped down models at below invoice prices. They only have a few to sell and hope they can bump you up to something more. Dell works pretty much the same way. They figure very few want the advertised PC so they won't lose much money on that one. Then they hope they can bump you up to something more useful like upgrading your monitor to one you can actually use, upgrading your memory, upgrading your processor, blah blah blah.

Never fall for the Dell sale, my own mother is a victim of it and even admits to it.

MDN Magic Word; "involved"

Never get 'involved' with Dell!

what i have trouble believing is that normal human beings are actually able to navigate the Rube Goldberg website which is the dell.com .. or is that the dell1.com or is that the delltv.com website?

i actually have computer skillz, can configure my own routers, hook up my own VoIP network, and wash myself in the morning..

but i cannot, for the life of me, figure out

1. where to go to buy computers on their site and get the best price

2. figure out how to determine what laptop or desktop i want out of their 47 concurrent models because there doesn't seem to be a clear indiciation as to what the fsck is the difference between a Inspiron 2890 and a Lattitude 3428... the fscking numbers don't even matter because you can quickly turn a lower number model into a better machine without a lot of work than a higher number model.

Apple's website shows pictures of all the machines.. the little mini is next to the eMac is next to the iMac is next to the Powermac. And then, the laptops are all in a row.

Once you choose the basic ballpark, you're not forced into looking at one individual model - but you're presented with the basic, most important differnces between all the models of whatever area you clicked in. And it takes all of 10 seconds to determine approximately where you will be looking for a computer in your price/performace range.

That Dell actually is able to sell computers to people like "My Mom(tm)" is breathtaking... i would find it easier to setup for a moon shot with a blackboard, chalk and some Newtonian equations.

Just for fun, let's remember that Dell isn't the only option. They're a successful one and a pretty good one, though. Their support includes next-day ON-SITE service for a year. They SHOW UP at YOUR HOUSE with a whole other computer. They'll replace every part if they have to, and if it's taking too long, they just give you the other computer. If Apple ever came to my house, I'd crap right on the carpet. It's several days minimum to get hardware serviced, and you MUST know the heartache of dragging a Powermac through NYC. Ugh.

But there are some good PC manufacturers out there with better pricing (Toshiba leaps to mind) and build-it-yourself is signifigantly cheaper for the savvy. There are no build-it-yourself options in the Apple world, sadly, or I'd go that way in a heartbeat.

Magic word "door" - answer the door, it's Dell.

I agree with most of the author's findings. The Dell store website is certainly geared toward advertising stripped down models and encouraging the buyer to add numerous upgrades. The upgrades are often 'necessary' to make the PC function half-way decent, and can add hundreds of dollars to the cost. However, Dell does often offer special sales/coupons that can cut the price nearly in half. Last Friday, I was nearly tempted to buy a Dell Laptop with a "$750 off $1499" one-day-only coupon. After I configured a system that was fairly well equipped, the net price was only $822 without an extended warranty. That's a price unmatched with a comparable iBook. But, it really is rediculous to compare Windows and MacOS computers on price alone. The Windows security issues and Apple iLife software are reasons enough to spend more on a Mac, let alone the ease of use and all around beauty of a Mac.

Amen, Bob. MacOS and Windows are in different leagues. Compare them that way. Apple as a sales outlet vs. Dell or IBM will often be on the losing end from a price/service POV, but they've never even implied that they wanted to compete until the Mac mini, which I'm sure Jobs fought tooth-and-nail.

Apple's a premium provider. They're happy there, and their customers make do with owning two computers. Which they can do, cuz they're wealthy.

From: PC Apologist

"Their support includes next-day ON-SITE service for a year. They SHOW UP at YOUR HOUSE with a whole other computer. They'll replace every part if they have to, and if it's taking too long, they just give you the other computer. If Apple ever came to my house, I'd crap right on the carpet."

I am a computer consultant in my local area. 3 of my clients purchased Dell in the last 3 years; I figured it would be okay since moeny was definietly an issue. But, once tech support was needed, you realize the differences.

All 3 had different problems, all 3 "ugraded" to the "ON-SITE" Service:

1 - was able to solve the problem over the phone after about 6-7 phone calls; he was quite frustrated he tole me

2 - they sent her parts over the mail to have her install them herself; of course, they came with instructions (they might as well have been in Greek for her); she called tech support and they tried walking her through it, no luck; finally, she called me and I swapped out the video card, RAM, and cmos battery

3 - he had to send his tower back to Dell (they did provide a prepaid label) and wait 2 WEEKS! during that time, he called me and said he would never get buy a Dell again

So, it appears that the "on-site" part of the service is always the last resort, way last!

So now, I don't recommend Dell anymore. Some of my clients still insist on Dell until they hear these 3 stories that is.

spidey23

Its the Walmart model. Sell low on what people NOTICE. Sell everything else high. And you wonder why they are able to sell things so cheaply. They don't. They just make it seem like that's true.

Just to add a lighter side to the posts, here is a little scoop- 'Library in Computer Bug Hell'.

Enfield Library service here in London (UK) bought some Dell computers of late (yes they never question despite the existing ones barely working) and surprise, surprise they were full of bugs making them totally unusable. However these bugs were slightly different from the normal Dell variety in as much as they were real wriggly ugly, bug infestations for which the IT department (not unusually) had no answer whatsover. They were packaged up ready to be returned to Dell Hive Central when some plonker (wanker) broke in and stole them. If we get a plague of Colarado beetles destroying our potato crops I will know who to blame Mr Dell.

spidey -

Wow.. they got hosed. With on-site they absolutely come to you (if it's not available in your area, they won't sell it to you), and I've never had to "upgrade" to it -- it's part of the standard business purchase, at least, and I think a friend who bought a home Dell recently has the same deal. I think this has been the Dell deal for several years -- were your examples from a long time ago?

Either way, I assume they all got whatever money they paid for "on-site" service back.

I think the latest one was about a year ago. And they were all home users, not business users. At the time, they had to upgrade to on-site warranty.

I just checked Dell's website, it appears they now offer their "At-Home" service as standard, so need to upgrade anymore.

I'm not sure about them actually getting their money back though.

All of them are based in Santa Barbara, CA.

I took the plunge last year and decided to build my own PC.

Not only was it one of the easiest and most simplistic things I have ever done (think Snap-tite models from when you were a kid) but it also showed me how overblown this whole issue is.

If you build it yourself, you can make a top-of-the-line PC for under $1000 (depending on the video card). The same system I built for $800 would have cost close to $2400 from Alienware or Dell.

That said - price is relative!!

Let' just agree to one thing....The Macintosh is WORTH THE MONEY YOU PAY FOR IT!!!! Who gives a crap if it slightly more expensive or slightly less expensive.

A tool is worth ANY cost when the tool performs the function you need it to and makes your job easier.

spidey23 and pc apologist:

i agree with pc apologist. i've had a dimension 8200 for a little less than 3 years, and when I purchased, I extended it ot the 4 year warranty. my graphics card recently crapped out and needed to be replaced. i was on the phone, and based on the LED diagnostic system on the back of the tower, the tech was able to diagnose the problem in about 10 minutes. he insisted that they send someone out to my house, but i insisted more that they just mail it because it would save me time. basically, if you pay for the at home service, you will get it if you want it. sometimes you might end up talking to an idiot on the phone, but that's the nature of the business. i had to call apple the other day about an ipod shuffle,a nd it took them an hour to finally agree to replace it after I talked to 3 different people.

ok, i'm afraid that the person who wrote this article is not hte most objective of sources. i'm looking at a configuration for the base dell desktop right now:

2.4ghz celeron
256mb ram
cdrom
free printer
40 gb 7200rpm drive
17" CRT
KEYBOARD AND MOUSE

final price: 298 (no tax in most states)

mac mini

1.2 ghz g4
256 mb ram
combo drive
32 meg graphics card
40 gb 5400rpm (correct me if i'm wrong on RPMs)
no monitor
no keyboard
no mouse

final price: 499 plus tax in most states

so now let's look at the differences. no graphics card in the dell. yes, this is a glaring difference, but for someone only wanting to spend 299 on a computer, it likely doesn't make any kind of difference to him. it's not upgradable on this model, but the price of a 32 meg graphics card is probalby no more than $50. no combo drive. this might matter more, so you can add $99 to add DUAL drives to the dell making the price 397.

now what the mac is lacking. no keyboard/mouse. apple charges a ridiculous $58 to add this making the price 557. apple's hard drive is slower. apple is lacking a 17" CRT (probably $50-$100 depending where/what you buy). apple is lacking a printer.

basically, the dell is significantly cheaper than the mac mini on the order of about $200 at base prices or more if you take into account the hardware differences.

those who argue that the dell is "unusable" at the price of 299 are full of many kinds of sh*t. the type of person looking to pay 299 for a machine likely wants a computer for internet access, email, and basic word processing. the 299 dimension will just fine for those kinds of tasks.

now the final argument all the macaddicts will make is the argument that they always arrive it: mac osx is better. maybe so, but it's difficult to quantify this difference in quality, and if we are talking strictly about which system is cheaper, the dell is cheaper hands down (even if you add in the $59 value of ilife).

Everyone. Always have.

um...they do? seems to be no mention of it whatsoever on teh website

bisabuelo,

If you can't upgrade to a graphics card you have to upgrade the whole computer. Find the cheapest one with a graphics card and start over. PC users play games. They need a dedicated graphics card.

You can get a monitor and keyboard and mouse for a Mac in any PC store and change back for $75. USB works on a Mac.

Yes you can get cheaper but can you get an EQUIVALENT computer cheaper from Dell.

RTFA

Final words on this:

- You *can* add the grafix card to the dell. Like he said, $50. You wanna play 3d games, you can buy a $400 video card and put that in there. No option for such with the mini.
- MacMall gives you a free printer, kb, mouse, and speakers when you buy a mini.
- If you decide you want more RAM later on, you've got 2 slots in the Dell. only 1 in the mini.
- If you decide you want a faster proc later on, you've got a standard celeron socket and can buy a faster same-gen proc. It's a whole mobo replacement (really a different system entirely) with the mini.
- If something comes unseated in the Dell while you're moving it from a to b, you can open it with your thumbs and seat it. The mini uses a sharpened putty knife which you must build yourself (can't buy) and opening it is much more likely to damage than with the Dell.

And, of course, they come over the next day and fix it if you need them to. I still think the Mac has the better OS, but Dell definitely undersells equivalent hardware in many situations.