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This is a good way to buy Apple products and save some money. I have bought several computers this way, including my current iBook. They are just like new, and I've never had a problem.

It's a good way to buy Apple products, unless, of course, you live in Canada. We are offered no such "Special Deals". I guess no Apple products fail in Canada.

Sometimes it really is hard to love this company.

Mike

I've bought Apple refurb products before and they all broke. Fool me once, shame on me ... you know the rest.

Uhh... no - it's fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me - i think you got that backwards Jadis

Can I just say, once and for all, no one, absolutely no one, outside of those who live off the government teet, really gives a hoot about Canada. Sometimes I wish we had a really big saw so we could set it adrift. Just beat yourselves silly with hockey sticks, or start your own computer companies, in fact, start something, do something, anything. Just quit btiching and whining about everything to do with the U.S. because, once again, when it comes to Canada, NO ONE CARES.

Geographically speaking, the U.S. is surrounded by irrelevance.

I still doubt whether to trust this. I absolutely love Apple software (especially the OS), but have thus far been disappointed by the quality of their hardware. The day after I got my first Powerbook, I had to return it due to a broken key on my keyboard. The next one I got had a busted battery that I had to ship back a few weeks later because it could never properly tell how much time was left. Currently, my "Z" key doesn't function well, I have these small spots on my screen, and a couple of weeks ago, out of nowhere, my computer just randomly stopped recognizing my bluetooth card, so now it thinks I don't have one installed! (I still have to bring my computer in for that one...).

Meanwhile my friend also had to return his first Powerbook, and his second one has one or two dead pixels which Apple won't fix.

If they can't even make new Powerbooks, how can I be sure they can fix an old one?

-Russell

Voice of reality - NOT
I'm sorry your life is in such a state that you feel the need to attack complete strangers in such a manner. There are NO reported cases - NONE- of any one person being happier or better of as a result of hate and discrimintation. I am willing to bet that you will not change that statistic. Canada does not exist anymore than the US does. It is just people on the surface of a planet some normal and some angry. Geographically speaking, without prejudice and a map we can not tell borders.

Dear Voice of Reality:

Fine. But before you saw us off, please send back: all your insulin, telephones, zippers, safety pins, sea/skidoos, radios, time zones, Blackberries, Jolly Jumpers, g-suits, robotic space arms, SCUBA gear, dump truck, propellers, Raisin Bran cereal, folding ironing boards, vortex flush toilets, Scrabble games, the NBA, garbage bags, ginger ale, frozen fish, Pablum, paint rollers, farm combines, pacemakers, cobalt therapies, and, well, all the other stuff. There's lots more.

Oh. And be prepared to freeze in the dark, as you just severed the connection to your single largest source of energy.

Have a great Canada-Free day.

Mike

Reality:

Don't forget to send back anything having to do with: Peter Jennings, Robert McNeil, John Candy, Mordecai Richler, Pamela Anderson ,Shania Twain, Nelly Furtado, Margot Kidder, W. P. Kinsella, Bare Naked Ladies, Keanu Reeves. Celine Timothy Findley, Dion, Arthur Kent, Avril Lavigne, Michael Ondaatje, Alanis Morissette, Kim Cattrall, Morley Safer, Bryan Adams, Neil Young, Jim Carrey, Natasha Henstridge, Alex Trebek, Jennifer Tilly, Le Cirque du Soleil, Sarah McLachlan, Leonard Cohen, Keith Morrison, Margaret Atwodd, Neve Campbell, John Kenneth Galbraith, Alice Munro, Kristin Kreuk, Donald Sutherland, Carol Shields, William Shatner, Douglas Coupland, Norman Jewison, Mike Meyers, Michael J. Fox, Jim Carrey, Dan Aykroyd, Samuel Cunard, Jack Warner, ...and many more.

Have a great Canada-Free day.

Mike

Hey MacPhee, don't waste your breath on the terrorist yank, it just makes them feel worthy. They have nothing but hate and contempt for the rest of the world.

Voice of 'Reality',

Maybe you could get together with that other Canada Hater - you know, umm, Buchanan - and help him with that ten foot wall that he's putting up to keep Canadians out.

Canadians won't actually mind having to go to other countries for vacations. We're actually welcome in other countries. There are NO 'Ugly Canadians' for the world to politely tolerate. And while you have plenty of tinsel, other places around the world have interesting CULTURES. And those other cultures love having visitors that want to immerse themselves in their culture, and not have to politely slop out the 'Americanized' version of their culture so that hicks like yourself can feel comfortable.

Enjoy 'your' upcoming Thanksgiving holiday - another Canadian invention - sorry, look it up. But then if you had ANY understanding of the world around you - not just what's inside your 'safe' walled-up corner of it, then maybe you could save yourself from making such ignorant, hateful comments.

Sorry, in advance to my American friends. I don't mean to characterize all Americans as hicks. It's just seems like a lot of those that are hicks, are from 'that' 51% group. It's tragic that they get to represent you.

To our Canadian neighbors..

Please realize that just because the religious (far) right wing radical faction has a choke hold on one of our political partys, and has found enough money to win the past election.... the fact remains that there are at least 49% of Americans who will never subscribe to their bigotry !

I'm sorry to say that there are idiots like"Voice of Reality" (above) among us.. But, rest assured, he is (contrary to his own beliefs)... NOT only the voice of (his fantasy ) reality... but, he doesnt speak for the rest of our country !!

Most people with a brain.. realize that our Canadian neighbors are, and always have been, our allies... but most important... our friends !!.. And, I (for one) appreciate this fact !

Please realize that his brand of bigotry and hatred is ignorant... and has no place in any civilized and educated society...

Someone put up a website, that sums up the feelings of almost half the population of the US.... you can find it .. right here

To mac dood et al:



Mike

This sums up the feelings of a lot of people in the US too...

http://www.thestranger.com/2004-11-11/feature.html

Wow, whats with the anti-Canada stuff. I like Canada.

Now, on the refurbs, I am tempted but am gonna hold off for a dual core G4 (or a G5) Powerbook.

thanx anastasia...

At least your link gives me hope !

As a little footnote to my post.... It was a Canadian friend of mine who passed me the link I posted !!

If you have some time on your hands ... check out a few of the galleries that guy has.... some are comical !!

M. T. MacPhee

right back at ya.... wish I knew how to grab a smiley to flash at you, but
I cant see any in Safari

To mac dood:

It's part of the new upgrade. Put in a colon/end parenthesis and it comes out a smiley!

I'm gonna try a frown just to see what happens:

:(

Mike

To mac dood:

Well, I suppose that it is fitting that smileys work and frowns don't. Some kind of lesson in life there.

Mike

Alas, in Canada there is only one conservative Province. Of course, the color usage up here is backwards. Liberal is red and conservative is blue. It does make some sense though. Liberal - red - communism. You can see the association.

Wooo scuba gear! Oh no! Oh my gosh! Whatever would we do without Canda!

ROTFLMAO

What a bunch of wanking whiners.

Ohh the U.S. is hateful and racist! Whine. Ohhh the U.S. is so mean. Wahhhhhh!

"......Liberal - red - communism. You can see the association..."

Ya know MT MacPhee...

Considering the results of our last election, I was beginning to worry that we had cornered the market on idiots... but thanx to people like Al.. I guess I dont have to worry about that...do I ??



Thanx Al !!.... now you can let your mommie have her computer back !

Wow.. look how a discussion about refurbe Apple hardware could get sidetracked into a discussion about Canada, Canadiens, biggotry, far right and far left wing zealoutry... I mean, c'mon!

If I started talking about gastro intestinal surgery, you folks would find a way to divert it into a political discussion to take pot shots at those you disagree with! I bet you guys are a riot at the holiday dinner table...

To the Canadiens up north, we love it that you guys living on a frozen wasteland consisting of a very large beached iceburg! It shows the human spirit and stands as a beacon of triumph at what humans can endure.. no really, kind of like the people that man the Antarctic polar station. Personally I prefer the sun, and warmth and things like that.. call me spoiled.. I live in CA.

As for Voice of Reality, I personally just think he was trying to make a joke, and I personally thought it was funny. I think everyone just got all bent out of shape and hot under the collar for nothing. People make fun of California, where I grew up and where I have 4 generations of ancestors on both sides of my family. I don't take offense at that. People, lighten up a bit. Lost in all this grandstanding and fingerpointing is VoR's point that Canadian's are whiners, I'm sorry but a lot of you Canadians on this message board do whine a lot. Prove me wrong if you can.

M. T. MacPhee, I liked your lists, they were amusing, but c'mon don't expect anyone to give credit to Canadiens for "inventing" frozen fish!? I could drop one on the ground up there and "invent" the same thing! By the way, you listed Jim Carrey's name 2x unless there's a second Jim Carrey I don't know about!

Road Warrior.. what was the point of your "terrorist yank" comment exactly?

Badpop, 3 things, first lighten up. Second, I've traveled a lot more than most people on this board probably have, and neither myself or my family was part of that "Ugly Americans" you speak of, although I have no doubts that they exist, but you cannot say there are no "Ugly Canadians" as well. Lastly, I understand you don't agree with George Bush, but your ignorant comment about the 51% that support him being hicks and ignorant and tragic is no less offensive than what Voice of Reality said.

mac dood, I suppose you're prepared to defend your comment that people on the "eligious (far) right wing radical faction" are biggots, while people on the left are not? Please. There's plenty of racism, sexism, xenophobia, division, and intolerance to go around on BOTH SIDES. Look at the very racist nature of the political cartoons about Condaleezza Rice for an example. And it goes on and on from there. Liberals are not tolerant (only of other liberals). Also, your complaint about the "Liberal - red - communism" shows more ignorance from you. First calling someone you disagree with an "idiot" making a personal attack rather than addressing the relative merits of his belief, and second, liberalism and communism really do share a common bond, look how the Democratic party wanted to treat the Soviet Union during Regan's presidency, Nicaragua? Cuba? And do they not want to have more socialism, redistribution of wealth, ummm... okay so what are the main differences exactly, besides not murdering millions of people to get their agendas accomplished?

anastasia beaverhausen, sadly I would expect an ignorant, hate filled diatribe link from you :(

Bottom line, everyone take a deep breath, get a grip, and find a sense of humor. Life is too short to carry a brick around your shoulder. If you don't agree with someone politically, try to find a more diplomatic and less condescending way to express that point of view. Thank you.

twilightmoon. SHUT UP AND GET AN F'N LIFE YOU LOSER. This is no place for your type of sh*t.

...To the Canadiens up north, we love it that you guys living on a frozen wasteland consisting of a very large beached iceburg!...

First, do mean the hockey team or 'Canadian' citizens. Second, after you get your head out, dig up some reference material. Contrary to YOUR ignorance, Canada isn't an iceberg.

...As for Voice of Reality, I personally just think he was trying to make a joke, and I personally thought it was funny...

Of course you did.

...but c'mon don't expect anyone to give credit to Canadiens for "inventing" frozen fish!?...

In Canada all the fish live their entire lives - roe to spawning - in blocks of ice, we just carve them out from the lakes and ocean right from our kitchen windows on Friday afternoons!

I either made that up, or you don't know that the temp does not actually drop 40 degrees - when you cross the 49th! How ignorant of you.

...I understand you don't agree with George Bush, but your ignorant comment about the 51% that support him being hicks and ignorant and tragic is no less offensive than what Voice of Reality said...

So, what VoR said was a joke - it was funny, and I should best 'lighten up'. Maybe I was trying to be funny, but Canadians are so 'uptight' I couldn't tell if I was - being funny. My apologies, but let me be more clear, 100% of the hicks support your man. [;-)]

Anyway, maybe you should follow VoR's lead, he doesn't care what Canadians think

I won't bother with madashell, but Badpop:
1. I don't think Canada is an iceburg, I've been there, I just had to do it cos everyone's getting all bent out of shape over a joke. I may be ignorant, but that's beside the point. At least I have a f'n sense of humor, c'mon.

Of course I thought was funny? Yes I did, I said that. Do you ever laugh at yourself? Please don't tell me you take yourself *that* seriously?

Of the frozen fish, I'm certain you are aware than Canadians don't have a lock on the fish in frozen climates market? Besides the comment was "frozen fish" I think you're talking about "ice fishing?" And besides which, if you are saying fish there are *already frozen* then how can anyone there claim to have *invented* frozen fish there? Did Californians *invent* redwood trees?

So the temp only drops what? 39 degrees? Help me out here...

Of course 100% "hicks" support Bush, since the term "hick" is a slur from the left to denegrade anyone that prefers open country air to crowded crime ridden hell hole cites.. :p (I live in the suburbs, so I have the best and worst of both, btw).

For what it's worth, my beliefs really don't agree 100% with any precanned ideology, I make up my own views, so I'm pretty much stranded on my own desert island politically, I think everyone else is wrong from time to time.

Now that you suggest it, I will follow VoR's lead, hand me a saw...

".....I suppose you're prepared to defend your comment that people on the "eligious (far) right wing radical faction" are biggots, while people on the left are not?..."

I never said that....you should go back and read that paragraph once again... I, did however, suggest that the bigotry spouted by another poster... has no place in an educated and civilized country !!

Just as the religious right wing faction of the Republican Party is want to do... you took something I said ... out of context, just to prove your point...

Now, I have no idea if you belong to that faction or not, and frankly, I dont really care...

But, when you have grown up during the Civil Rights / Viet Nam era in the Bay Area, leaving long enough to wear our country's uniform, and (afterwards) ... witnessing the events at UC Berkley, it tends to forge ones political views against right wingers and Republicans in general... however...

Re: ".....Liberals are not tolerant (only of other liberals)..."

A blanket statement which is utter bull !! ..... I am tolerant of conservatives, and others who do not share my pov.... BUT whenever they profess to speak for me... and / or the rest of the country, and say things which casts a disparaging light on every American... I am offended ....

Russell:

If you ever get a chance to read this...

The blue tooth hardware recognition problem fixes easily. Just shut down your powerbook... take out the battery for 30 seconds. Put the battery back in ... power up the powerbook, and vuala... the bluetooth hardware will be back in play...

twilightmoon. I'm disappointed. I thought you, with your "f'n sense of humor", would get it. But, now that I think about it, you are trying to respond to these . . .
bye,
stay in California you hippie love freak

mac dood: (responding to my disparaging comment about liberal tolerance)
"A blanket statement which is utter bull !! ..... I am tolerant of conservatives, and others who do not share my pov.... BUT whenever they profess to speak for me... and / or the rest of the country, and say things which casts a disparaging light on every American... I am offended ...."

I'm equally offended by *much* of the ignorant crap that is spouted out on the left. So I can understand if you're liberal you'd be offended by some of the crap that comes out of the right.

That being said, even people on the so called "far" left or "far" right can be respectful about their views and disagree with people they don't share views with, without being "disagreeable." I will defend your right to be offended or upset by ignorant comments by people you don't agree with politically, please just don't paint everyone on the conservative Christian right with the same broad brush and understand that while you may not agree with their point of view, they are not all biggoted morons, and they have a right to their point of view and there's no need to denegrate them for honestly deeply held beliefs.

Anyway, I doubt we'd agree too much on our politics, and I don't want you to change your views on my account, just try to have a more open mind about people you disagree with, that's all.

Cheers.

madashell...
Hillarious, I'm now called a hippie love freak? That is classic.

Thanks for a good laugh...

Hi Twilight Moon:

I was pointing out to MacPhee that is was pretty well futile to try to attempt any sort of rationale with voice of reality because he comes from a terrorist country aka the United Hates of America.

Nice post, certainly a sense of humor really helps these days.

Twilightmoon is actually all one word.

RW, every country has it's sins. I hope you're joking when you call the US a terrorist nation. You don't have to agree with everything we do, but name another nation who has shed more blood to help out other nations, or who gives more to help places with famine, flood, disaster, etc.

If the US is a terrorist nation now, we were far more so during WW2 when we leveled whole cities, and whiped out whole civillian populations.

The world is a messy place, and cleaning it up is a messy job. If you have a better idea how to do it, lets hear what that is?

Or maybe you just have too much fun poking fun at the old USA.. an easy target...

Or you were making a joke? If so, try a smiley face next time.

Here in Baghdad I don't find anything funny except all the American tourists with big guns. Canada good place though bit too cold for me.
As for me I cannot afford a refurbished Mac let alone a new one - guess thats why there is no Apple Store opening up here soon. Pity you continental Nth Americans cannot get along, bit like Iraqies & Iranians here I suppose.
Have a good day gentlemen.

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Ok, to get back on topic here:

I have bought many macs from Apple via the "special deals" section on the store page, and they were all fine. You have to remember that these machines go through Q/A TWICE - so you're liable to get a better machine than if you bought one "new".

smalldog.com has lots of refurbs too, and they stand behind everything from day one. I highly recommend them!!! *WOOF WOOF*

I always thought the refurbished prices were too high. Further, they compare with the original prices at the time they were out, not with the prices of the same comparable machines today.

The United States has always had a warm spot for Canada and Canadian citizens. I hope we always will. I would have hoped they would always have special status crossing the borders and staying in the country. I am unhappy about the existing and coming increased border controls that will impact Canadians. Canada and the U.S. do trace back to some shared roots.

Comments about Canada being too cold are bizarre. Where do these people live? In Phoenix? Have people not been in some of the colder States, or at least heard of them? It also gets more than a bit chilly in Minnesota and all of the northern central states of the U.S. And, last I looked, Alaska wasn't in the sun belt. (Hint: Alaska is not in Canada.) Alaska is an absolutely beautiful state, as is British Columbia (in Canada, for the geography-impaired) and much of Canada.

Fortunately, for those concerned about cold, and unfortunately for those of us concerned about global warming, the northern climates appear to be warming very quickly. Recent studies are warning of these changes. The Iditarod (dog sled race, Alaska) has had to be started many miles north due to lack of adequate snow coverage. Several residents I have talked to there have even complained about the decrease in snow in the winter reducing the opportunities for certain winter activities. And it is bit disconcerting to me to watch the speed with which water is pouring off the Alaskan glaciers as they melt. So, I find the cold comments - unenlightened. Yeah, they weren't serious. No. I think a some of the negative Canada comments were.

For me, as an American, I love Canada and the Canadians and wish we would develop even closer ties. For most of the two countries' existence, the U.S. and Canada have shared, as I recall, the longest mostly unpatrolled border in the world.

Red, Blue, or White, and ignoring temporary or artificial problems created by individuals or politicians from either country, these two countries have been and must always remain friends.

Well said, Mr Wells

Hello Twilightmoon:

1. I am not joking about the United States being a Terrorist Nation.

a. Walking away from an important vote regarding Iraq and going on to do what is an illegal war on Iraq. So much for democracy and the tenets of the UN.

b. Guatamano Bay. Violation of the Geneva convention.

c. Torturing of detainees in Iraq, violation of the Geneva convention.

d. Using your media outlets to distribute photos of such torture. Violation of the Geneva convention and the most horrific dehumanizing terrorist act of this century. Not even the Japanese during World War 2 publically released torture photos of prisoners to the masses. The United Hates has however.

The list goes on. The United Hates is a threat to global security. You are terrorists, get used to it.

2. Name another nation who gives more to help places with famine etc.

I would be honored. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway France, Switzerland, Findland, UK, Germany, Austria, Canada, Ireland, Australia, Italy, Japan, Portugal, and Spain all rank higher when it comes to foreign aid. You don't even make the top 10, so get off that soapbox ASAP.

Get educated about something else than your own country.

http://www.cgdev.org/rankingtherich/aid.html

The USA is not an old nation, it is one of the newer ones. And during your brief history you have been at war for 43% of the time. Amazing isn't it. You are a country born from a war, and your economy is war based.

Wake up, while you still can.

3. Some better ideas? Here area a few.

a. When a UN vote comes up, an important one, please have the dignity to attend it.

b. One of the tenets of the UN is for countries not to attack one another unless they go through the UN. As you cannot abide by that principle, please remove yourself from that organisation.

c. Follow the rules of the Geneva convention, after all you have signed it.

d. When media outlets publish torture photos of detainees (thus violating the Geneva convention) please bring them to justice.

e. Apprehend your government leaders and bring them to justice, so that the crimes against humantiy they have perpetrated can be dealt with.

f. Get over your arrogant attitude and work with the world, not try to dictate it.

I hope this provides you with some information to reflect and ponder what a vicious terroristic nation you have become. Good luck.

Road Warrior: "b. One of the tenets of the UN is for countries not to attack one another unless they go through the UN. As you cannot abide by that principle, PLEASE REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THAT ORGANIZATION."

Gladly.

Thanks BriAnimations. I knew someone would give me the correct saying. LOL.

Scrawny: I am waiting but won't hold my breath (snickers).

shorter srawny austin: we're talking our ball and going home. maybe later we can play with others who will let us it every at-bat and be the pitcher every time. waaah!!!

twilightmoon,

Great point about being able to disagree without hating. I bet there are things we would agree on and disagree on, but there's nothing wrong with that. Of course, I liked you better before madashell told me you were a "hippie love freak", how could you keep this from us?

madashell,

Where does that name come from? You seem pretty laid-back to me.

Road Warrior,

About the UN and "kindly" removing ourselves from that organization...
How about "kindly" removing that organization from us?
I'm sure they will be ready to go once the whole story about the "Oil for Food" scandal gets out. Paris is nice for diplomats to meet (at least the Germans thought so back in the 40's, until we sent them home).



~M

Everybody predisposed to being touchy,

Before you think I am a German hater, relax.

I like Germans, they make great cars and my favorite TV is Loewe.

And I've known two German girls in my life and both of them could do this thing...



~M

To any girls on this thread (or any feminine guys),

The above post was in no way meant to degrade girls.

I think you are wonderful.

~M

Crap!

Looking over the above, it struck me that I might have offended some of the girls here, I mean women.

(or womyn, if your hard-core offended)

As for feminine men, I pretty much don't care if you get offended.

If you were butch, maybe I'd get nervous.



~M

Man, this posting thing is harder than I thought...

To any English teachers,

Sorry about the wrong use of "your".

Obviously, I meant:

(or womyn, if you're hard-core offended)

See, all we have to do is make sure we don't offend anyone (ever) and this posting thing is pretty cool.

What were we talking about?

~M

Mozfan:
"What were we talking about?"

No hope, people are going to get bent out of shape no matter what you say, that's what a healthy sense of humor is for. Cheers.

As far as being a "hippie love freak" what can I say? It's all about the love baby!

Road Warrior:

As far as your hatred of my homeland, God help you man. Everyone here has their passions and prejudices, you can have yours. Just know it's an opinion, not a fact, and an offensive one at that.

Cheers.

twilightmoon,

Good call. It is all about the love, as Road Warrior and madashell have shown us on so many occasions. (sniff)

I love you people! I used to use pcs and was always too busy trying to keep windows running to have any fun with the machine.

Apples rule, but they do represent a substantial initial investment. Of course, I am of the opinion that you get what you pay for and Apples do show evidence that Steve thinks so too.

Still, being on a budget and all, it would be nice if someone offered refurbished macs for sale.

(I bet those Canadians have that available. Those lucky dogs have everything.)

~M

Mozfan: I would certainly think that the UN ejecting the US from it's membership and seeking a headquarters elsewhere would be a sign of global leadership of a humane nature, but I am not holding my breath. Great sense of humor by the way.

Twilightmoon: I believe I put forth some valid points and some suggestions. To say that it is an opinion is humorous. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that a country that violates the Geneva convention left right and center and subjects the world to a global act of dehumanization as you have done is a terrorist organisation. It's a fact. Live with it and do something about it. It might be offensive to you, but believe me not near as offensive as the USA is to the world.

The hate comes from you, remember that.

Take care.