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By the time Leopard arrives, it won't be Boot Camp (although that may be an option), it will be fast OS switching with an option to suspend activity on one OS while working in the other. Better offer 8 Gigs of RAM in laptops.

Time to advertise. " Whats windoz doing inside a Mac"

Dell will come back - they'll just do something creative..

You know, better marketing...

Maybe "Dell Fuglion - it's a Dell PC with an even UGLIER design!"

Or maybe "Buy a Dell, get a mail-in rebate for a free prostrate exam!"

It could happen.

I'm hoping this is just a warm up for the REAL MS/Dell slayer, a way to run Windows apps (read that as Office and Games) without having to load or run that large piece of malware known as Windows XP or its mythical step child Vista

'When they create a scenario where you could have fast user switching between the two operating systems, then that would be good.'

I can switch between my mac and windows partition on my new iMac in less than a minute. No real delay there. It boots AMAZINGLY fast in both os's

Every other desktop PC is now obsolete before leaving the assembly line.

MDN word: Period.

...and yes I know Office for Mac exists but the majority of Pee Cee users don't, heck I doubt most of them know OS X exists.....

Paul Thurrot review Boot Camp; Says Leopard will ship in LATE 2007 and that Mac marketshare is barely 2 percent.. Idiot.

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/apple_boot_camp.asp

Oh yeah, Thurrot also complains about Boot Camp being "overly simplistic." See above link.

Boot camp is a clever title. It conveys two things:

1) the option of booting in both OS X and Windows

and

2) Working in windows is comparable to the torture that is going to boot camp.

The patent reads that Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux will run simultaneously with the virtualization layer making all data copy/paste ready across operating systems.

When Leopard ships, game on.

I love all the articles over the last week.

Maybe. Might. Could.

Anyway. The real killer will be if Apple figures out a way to run Windows apps in OSX and somehow apply the OSX interface look and feel.
There is your holy grail. There is your Dell killer. There is your MS killer.

Almost without fail the first thing a Windows user tells me about his or her machine is how cheaply they bought their computer.

The second thing they brag to me is how many applications they they can run despite having about a dozen or so applications loaded on their hard drives, using about half of those with any regularity.

Third thing they go on and on about is all the trouble with adware, viruses, OS problems and the like.

Point is that many, many people will continue to buy cheapo boxes and feel that they are getting the same thing as a Mac. They balk at the price of a Mac without really knowing the big difference between the two.

Schools, government agencies and businesses are three biggies that I can think of off hand.

Redman's point is well taken, however. I believe that a lot of people will buy a Mac now because of Boot Camp.

The Mac has a great OS, industrial design and the hardware is very reliable. And I hope that 10.5 has the APIs and such to run Windows and Linux programs in a Darwine-like fashion.

Macromancer is right! That's what I'm talking about!!!!

"I can switch between my mac and windows partition on my new iMac in less than a minute. No real delay there. It boots AMAZINGLY fast in both os's"

Yeah, but you can't currently carry clip board items from one OS to the other because of the, albeit fast, shutdown/restart.

Here's a priceless screenshot of Paul's newly installed XP on a Mini.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/bootcamp_07.jpg

Kinda says it all, eh?

It would be nice if Apple included a set of Windows-2000 drivers, so I don't have to buy any more M$oft S/W.

i think Apple is testing the waters with boot camp to see the intrest level in it. Then when Leopard hits they will have a program that would let you run windows apps on the Mac without installing windows. They will also tell the Software companies to make thier programs universal and the software that Apple will supply them with will make sure that thier program will run on both platforms.

Now we can all say....

we were mac users before the renaissance

Intel = Crap
Windows = Crap

But Now:

Intel = GREAT!!!
XP running on a Mac = GREAT!!!



You sheeptards crack me up.

And you notice how no XPs on Apple have gotten any viruses???
Weren´t all the Macwidget heads just screaming a day or two ago about how you start up XP and there are virus and adware and malware infesting it?

No virus or adware on my version of XP.

This is from Therrots article;

... (There is also a new Startup Disk control panel that Apple adds to XP; this allows you to tell it to boot into XP or Mac OS X on the next boot without having to access the boot menu. To my knowledge, there is not a similar applet added to OS X.) I feel this system is overly simplistic, and should be made to work more like the Windows boot menu we get on PCs....

Umm...Sytem Preferences>Startup Disc

how can someone who writes a tech column and claims to have actually used OS X not have a clue what's in the System Preferences?

I personally never have had any issues with Intel, However I do believe Windows is CRAP.

I also believe that XP running on a Mac is GREAT, not because I will ever want to use it but because 90% percent of computer users in the world do.

XP on a Mac = More Macs sold = AAPL goes up = good for me!

Who you calling a Sheeptard!

Apple ought to rename "boot camp" to "checkmate".

Paul's site also has this little nugget of inside information:

"A future version of Boot Camp will be included with Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard," due in late 2007. "


He's hoping.. He's really hoping...

Why would anyone want to buy a mac to use windows? You can do everything and more on a pc running windows then you can on a mac running windows. How rediculous..

im a graphic designer and I use a mac everyday at work... And it sucks balls in my opinion compared to my pc at home... its slow, there arenet any good games available, photoshop and illustrator lagg on filters and it takes forever to open up the damn programs. I cant believe how much my company paid for these things... yeah, they look cool but thats about it. And whats up with that one button mouse? and the mighty mouse? WEAK. what a gimmik, i cant believe people waste thier hard earned money on that junk...

by the looks of things most mac users care so much about "looks" and less about performance......

I think that says alot about mac users.

Will someone please explain to me why this is so good for Apple or mac and thier users? the great thing about macs (if there is any) is that it is its own entity..

Now they've switched to intel... then to using windows.... Is this still an apple product? Looks like apple is on its way to becoming just another PC brand.....

All of us (mac and pc users) are being taken for a ride by intel... PERIOD!

macandpcuser says "Why would anyone want to buy a mac to use windows?"

Answer, so they can get the best designed hardware, with the worlds most advanced, stable and secure operating system (OSX,) and use the best designed and easy to use mulitmedia apps (iLife,) and still be able to boot up into Windows for a particular Windows only app or game that they want or need to use.

Why is this good for Apple and/or their users you ask? For the same reasons above.. Macs are the ony computers capabale of this.

Is this still an Apple product you ask? Absolutely, whether or not the chip/processor is designed by IBM or Intel (both PC vendors,) the OS and software and hardware integration are all distinctly Apple.

And to correct your above statement... "Now they've switched to using Windows." WRONG, they haven't switched. Windows is not gonna be supported by Apple. Apple is just providing the ability to dual-boot into Windows. Big difference.

Turdoe will say anything to protect his paycheck. What a weasel.

mnpcuser:

I have the opposite situation to yours with opposite results. Good for you that you love your virus magnet PC. Who really gives a shit what you like or don't like. Have fun with it.

I see your point mike, and its is validity...

But i think the only winner out of this is intel..
Whats next? they come up with better designed hardware for PCs... then what? All this is saying that they are controling the market. IMO

(ilife??) thats it? I think you can do better then that... why would anyone want to pay so much for a system just so they can use (ilife) when Myspace is free?

Also, i was reading a cnet article that showed benchmarks of software (photoshop, farcry) running faster/better/smoother in a MacWin setup then a MacOSX setup wich makes me question who has the better OS?.

ART:

Turdoe will say anything to protect his paycheck. What a weasel.

mnpcuser:

I have the opposite situation to yours with opposite results. Good for you that you love your virus magnet PC. Who really gives a shit what you like or don't like. Have fun with it.


Thanks for the intelligent response.

macandpcuser,

Regarding Intel: I don't believe Intel is controlling the market.. With Universal Binaries, Apple is setting its OS and apps to become processor independent... They are using Intel now, maybe it will last maybe not, but the bottom line is Apple doesn't want to get itself into the same situation that they did with IBM.. Steve Jobs doesn't like to be at anyones mercy..

iLife and MySpace? That's a joke right?

Regarding Cnet article: If you are questioning who has the better OS, then you are the perfect candidate for an Mac with dual-boot capabilities.. For users it's the best of both worlds, use whichever OS gets the job done best. For Apple it's a no-brainer, they have obilerataed the competition.. They've done what no other hardware vendor can do by offering a dual-boot system..

It's really a win/win situation anyway you look at it.. Users benefit by getting the best of both worlds, Apple benefits with hardware sales and increased marketshare, Microsoft benefits by an added user base to sell copies of Windows to, and Dell and Hp... Well, it's not so good for Dell and HP!

RE "It's really a win/win situation anyway you look at it.. Users benefit by getting the best of both worlds..."

Tell that to OS/2. Look what happened to it when it started supporting Windows apps.

This move is just desperation; if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. OS X hasn't been able to make appreciable gains going up against a Microsoft OS from 2001. And now here comes Vista. Microsoft is encroaching into Apple's space, not vice versa.

Intel = Crap
Windows = Crap

But Now:

Intel = GREAT!!!
XP running on a Mac = GREAT!!!



You sheeptards crack me up.

Windows is still CRAP, always has been and always will be! As for Intel, they courted Apple, not the other way around. IIRC, Paul Otellini's first big thing on his checklist to tackle when he became CEO was to get Apple to switch to Intel (probably payback to IBM for getting Microsoft to switch the next gen Xbox to PowerPC I suspect) and it seems that Mr. Otellini and Mr. Jobs are the best of friends, which from what I also know, Steve Jobs was also quite a close friend to former Intel CEO Andy Grove who also tried to get Apple to switch to Intel back when the Motorola 68K was the hot CPU on the market back in the '80s powering some of the best computers on the market including both the Mac and the Amiga (the PC not being one of them). I think Intel is happy with their new found love with Apple; they get to innovate without being held back by an imitating software company from Redmond, WA.

The only sheeptards are those Windows users (like yourself) living in computer user hell sticking with a 2nd rate platform (Windows namely) that should have been put down like Old Yeller long ago!

Asta La Vista Baby!

i smell a lot of support contracts and charged phone support. $$$$$$

Copernicus says "This move is just desperation; if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. OS X hasn't been able to make appreciable gains going up against a Microsoft OS from 2001. And now here comes Vista. Microsoft is encroaching into Apple's space, not vice versa."

You are right and wrong... OSX hasn't been able to make aprpreciable gains, that much is true.. Apple has the best hardware, OS and software yet, they have been unable to make any major marketshare gains..

However, this is hardly a desperate move as Apple is NOT in a desperate situation.. Apple is very profitable and has been for many years... They have a loyal bunch of users and could go on for quite some time and remain a profitable company even with a small fraction of the computer marketshare..

This is a very smart and bold move to increase marketshare and entice Windows users into the world of Apple.. It's a risk, but I do believe it will pay off in the long run.. Desperation is definitely the wrong word.

You sheeptards crack me up.

I like how you didn't mention Vista running on a Mac. What, no forward vision?

Intel is great today because IBM has completely dropped the ball on PowerPC. When your current source is floundering it's time to switch; hoping for better times doesn't pay the bills.

Windows however is still crap. The only good here is Apple using MS's own tools against them (i.e. using Win to lure users to Mac). And how sweet it is.

The reason Photoshop currently runs faster in Windows on an Intel Mac than in OS X is because there isn't yet a Universal version. This will change next year.

I AM ALREADY GETTING TIRED OF HEARING THIS. ITS BEEN SO LONG SENSE I'VE USED WINDOWS. I DON'T CARE TO AGAIN. EVERYBODY IS SO EXCITED ABOUT WINDOWS AGAIN!!!

My PowerMac 6100 with DOS card ran Windows--simultaneously with Mac OS--over ten years ago. Why is everyone acting like this is some kind of revolutionary thing for Apple to do? It's not even the first time they've done it.

I was kidnapped the other day with my MacBook Pro and the nasty people gave me two options...

1. Show them how to Install Windhoes on my nice machine or,

2. have a tooth extracted... through my asshole.

I chose the latter as it was less painfull.

most likely won't. Like MacDoctor suggests above, the sheep think price first, then price second, then, finally, price again. Most of our Windows friwnds wouldn't appreciate the value that elegance and ease of use could bring to their lives if it bit them on the arse. After all, it's all about price.

I feel Mr. Thurrott is overly simplistic!

Arn't macs harder to upgrade? You can't just slap any ol' graphics card into a mac can you? For games i mean. If you can this could slow xbox sales, which i hear is as good as a high end pc anyway. Just buy a mac to do everything. Next step, built in digital tv tuner.

How fucking retarded do you have to be to think iLife (iDVD, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, iPhoto) has anything to do with MySpace (a free blogging site for twelve year olds) ?

For someone who claims he uses a Mac, you don't sound like you use it very much or know anything at all about it.

And if you don't like your one button mouse, plug in a two, three, four or five button mouse. The OS supports it. The Mighty Mouse from Apple has four buttons and a 360-degree scroll wheel. What's lame about that?

Photoshop isn't universal binary yet, so if you are running it on OSX on Intel vs. Windows XP on Intel, it will run better in Windows...for now. Once Photoshop CS3 comes out in a few months, it will have been built using XCode and it will be native to OSX on Intel. At that point you can do an accurate benchmark. Right now Rosetta (the PPC to Intel translation layer) is what's causing the performance hit on OS X.

And what the fuck is Farcry? Is that some disembodied-floating-gun-wandering-around-a-dark-hallway video game? Who the fuck considers that a make or break application for a platform? OS X is about getting work done. You want to play games get a GameCube, little boy.

Ignorance is showing when iLife is compared to MySpace

iLife=cutting edge multimedia communication software simplified for the average user.

MySpace=A site primarily consisting of Whores and Bores.

"Dell will come back - they'll just do something creative.." LOL

"The real killer will be if Apple figures out a way to run Windows apps in OSX and somehow apply the OSX interface look and feel." This shouldn't be a problem as the items that make up the interface are defined in the OS, not the programs.

NY Times editorial:
Microsoft's Mac Attack
By ROBERT X. CRINGELY

HELL froze over this week as Apple Computer unveiled Boot Camp, a free program that will allow its new Macintosh computers with Intel microprocessors to run Microsoft's Windows XP operating system as an alternative to Apple's OS X. The news media were agog and Apple's stock price zoomed at the announcement. In my view, it was mildly interesting, but hardly the revolution Apple users want to see.
Continues here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/08/opinion/08cringely.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print