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Good decision, provided they are handling the licensing without erecting any undue roadblocks.

huh huh uhhhh huh huh... you said erect

This will kill the standard.

Manufacturers will not want to halt production, or do work on a product, not even knowing if it will be able to go to market with the intended connectors.

After the Apple store debacle, who knows what arbitrary control-freakish rules Apple will decide on for this? They'll probably decide to reject any computer monitors proposed on the basis that they duplicate and existing Apple product or some other such nonsense.

Apple should have put in the full DisplayPort, or planned on the assumption they were always going to go from MiniDisplayPort -> something else (whether it be the full DisplayPort, DVI, or whatever).

They should also be shipping a MiniDisplayPort -> HDMI connector, since anyone connecting to an HDTV will want this, and it's insane to have to buy a MiniDisplayPort -> HDMI, then a DVI -> HDMI converter, plus a cable, just to get your laptop outputting to your HDTV... or buy Apple's expensive and proprietary AppleTV, which will EVEN THEM limit what you can display to Apple's own supported formats (read: No divx, xvid, etc.).

Dec 01, 08 - 08:16 pm Comment from: jocknerd

And I'm sure the license fee will be so outrageous that the MiniDisplayPort will never show up anywhere other than Apple products. Sort of like Firewire.

Apple is so much better when they follow standards rather than try to implement their own.

Dec 01, 08 - 08:19 pm Comment from: jocknerd

I just looked up information on DisplayPort and found its a license free royalty free interface. And now Apple wants to charge for their version of it. Hah! This is a dead end. I see another ADC connector that only shows up on Apple hardware for the most part. Don't expect to see this on ViewSonic or Samsung or Dell or NEC monitors.

If Apple didn't produce such great software, I would have no need for their hardware.

Good decision, provided they are handling the licensing without erecting any undue roadblocks.

Evaluations? Apple's agreement? The whole process sounds like a roadblock to me.

If Apple hasn't done so already, they HAVE GOT to release the MDP specification as an open standard. Sure, Apple can trademark "Mini DisplayPort" and require people to license the name, but the specification itself has to be free-to-use.

Anything less will just create another Apple Display Connector. :(

jocknerd: There is no charge for the license and it is perpetual.

Apple is so much better when they follow standards rather than try to implement their own.

No way!

You mean the same Apple that gave us OpenDoc, QuickDraw 3D, QuickTime VR, ADC, Dylan programming, NuBus....

Dec 01, 08 - 08:43 pm Comment from: GizmoDan

THE LICENSE IS FREE.

Apple has to approve of your implementation to make sure you fit, and that you don't make them all look bad. If you have a monitor with this standard and you try to plug it into your Mac, you might think it's Apple's fault. Instead, by having to get the license from Apple they can assure quality, and fit and finish by others.

Brilliant. I hope they do this for other standards. Bring up the quality of the industry.

People have been asking Apple to license things to them. This is FREE. Great!

Dec 01, 08 - 08:45 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

ADC Part II?

Jocknerd,

I think you misread this and some other documents. There is no charge for this connector. To add to it, Apple doesn't own the FireWire connectors you used as an example either.

Dec 01, 08 - 08:59 pm Comment from: Tommy Boy

Any third party company would be foolish to follow Apple on this path.

After Apple started spraying bullets at much of the 3rd party dock connector business with the release of the iPhone 3G (nice way to kill off 5 years of stereo purchases in one fell swoop Apple), I expect them to kill off this connector in 4 years making purchases for it a huge waste of time.

VISUAL ERGONOMICS: GLARE EFFECTS AND THEIR SIGNIFICANCE IN THE VISUAL ENVIRONMENT

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:8aMCUEdh_80J:www.doa.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=2505+reflections+CVS+glare+glossy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=safari

Seems glare on computer screens is a significant problem in State Offices.

Dec 01, 08 - 10:29 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

Actually, Apple does own Firewire. Manufacturers pay about 25 cents a port if I remember correctly. But, to my understanding, mini displayport is a free license. I have been wrong once or twice before so I don't know. To this point from what I have read, the license is free ( mini displayport, you are still paying for the firewire port.).

Dec 01, 08 - 10:40 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

I like how all you critics (morons) are always complaining about what Apple is doing. Instead of telling us all how great your ideas are why don't you just start your own company. Hell, Apple knows nothing about business. I mean, they are a "small" company, but yet they have 25 billion in the bank.Their margains dwarf everyone elses in the industry, and on 10% the R&D;budget they crush everything any other company does. With how smart you all seem to be I bet your company would go something like this.

1. Matte screens ( because I hear they are better)
2. Go back to serial/parallel ( lots of old tech had them)
3. Make $300 computers ( your welfare checks could afford you that much for a system)
4. Cut and Paste iPhone ( you would not put any more features in after this one, because you think it is the holy grail.)
5. Fire Steve ( because he would make you work to hard, yell a lot, get more out of your sorry asses than you ever could yourselves and he would actually have your company accumulater 25 in cash in 10 years, that bastard)

* I realize there are those of you that need matte screens, so buy a veiw sonic, or one of them there hoods by lacie.

Quit bitchin, buy or don't buy, pretty simple really.

I hear those linux netbooks are great! Wonder what the video out those things produces on your HDTV.

Dec 01, 08 - 10:42 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

I excuse myself from any grammer remarks on that last line.

Just buy a new MBP and 24" Cinema display. I was a glossy doubter, but no more. Both these screens are amazing. Put my old 23" display next to the 24" and WOW, what a difference. Just sold that 23" on Ebay. I'm so over matte.

Dec 01, 08 - 11:41 pm Comment from: ken1w

I think Apple wants "partners" to make peripherals for Macs with the Mini DisplayPort, like its partners currently make accessories that work with the iPod Dock Connector.

However, Apple probably does not want "competitors" to make PCs and laptops that have a Mini DisplayPort. Ever see a non-iPod music player with an iPod dock connector? Nope...

Apple is getting pretty confident. They think they can drive and oversee a new market of Mac accessories, like they currently do for the (now) huge iPod accessories market. What's next, a special better version of USB that's just for Macs? (maybe one that can do USB target disk mode).

Dec 02, 08 - 02:16 am Comment from: The Other Steve

@ jarrettdailynews

Yes, Apple developed FireWire but they don't charge others for the use of it.
They did charge a small fee for the name, but not anymore.

I am a reformed glossy hater: I went through all the stages. I was mad because Apple had forced me into buying a MBP and not MB when for general office work, there is very little difference in functionality (same max RAM, same speed about, drives external monitor, has USB, Firewire, easy to change HD, etc.) BUUUT I gambled on a the MB with the glossy screen and haven't looked back since. I thought I would be constantly adjusting the screen so I wouldn't be staring at my own reflection- but that's not the case.

-- What is the advantage of this new port, by the way?

@ken1w

That theory sounds quite plausible: I hope he's wrong!

It looks like some people don't know that Firewire was first on Mac... And that PC makers had a hard time to bring to their boxes...

AA Attendee: -- What is the advantage of this new port, by the way?

Among other things, together with the new chip set it enables all MacBook models to drive up to 30" screens. DP also allows to drive more than one screen on one output — at least in principle. And there is more...

@MacGenius
At the risk of providing a few crumbs to the latest anti-Apple troll: if I had 2 guesses about what you did for a living - aside from spewing illiterate chunks of flame-bait on this site - one of them would have a "State Office building" as its setting.

Dec 02, 08 - 10:25 am Comment from: Demon

This is the first step in the road for Mini-Display Port being rolled in to the next version of the display port standard.
As Apple is using the Display Port standard and they just miniaturized the connector. One of reasons display Port is not widely used was the size of the connector. Apple wants the Mini Display Port to be a standard so, they'll promote the development of adapters, cables, monitors and Graphic Cards and in 12 to 24 months when the next round of Display Port standards a reviewed Apple will submit the Miniaturized Display Port for inclusion into the Display Port Standard (if they have not already done this). With some third part adoption and support it's likely to be approved as a Display Port Standard quickly. Once it's on the road to being included in the Display Port Standard you're likely to see a move to Mini Display Port by Nvidia, ATI and Intel but, many of the major PC Vendors will stick with DVI and some will move to HDMI, PC Vendors just don't like to advance, that's why they clutched on to VGA for so, long and the Monitor makers got stuck in the middle and ended up supporting both VGA and DVI. Some monitor makers are now starting to also include HDMI Ports too, on their higher end models. Other then Apple, I do not think any of the Monitor Manufactures have removed Analog input support from any of their model lines yet. Sooner, or later, VGA input will be removed from most all monitors.

And this means what??????

Nobody is going to follow Apple. People would not follow Adobe with its DNG standard for digital images despite that fact that it would benefit photographers for decades.

We don't need more new standards that benefit one company. We need universal standards. Why, for example, does every digital camera use a different battery and a different charger. What a pain!

Can you spell "F I R E W I R E"??????

The Mini DisplayPort on the MacBooks *isn't* just a mini version of DisplayPort.

The Mini DisplayPort connector on the MacBooks has a pin containing analog video. DisplayPort is digital audio and video only. IOW DisplayPort cannot drive a VGA monitor.

Dec 02, 08 - 11:03 am Comment from: thethirdshoe

@MacMental - "I'm so over matte."

I thought you were seeing Steve?!

Jocknerd:

>And I'm sure the license fee will be so outrageous that the >MiniDisplayPort will never show up anywhere other than Apple >products. Sort of like Firewire.

Firewire isn't an Apple standard, and it is on a lot of non-apple products.

Some notebooks that have it come to mind:
ThinkPad X30,X31,X32,X40,X41,X60,X61,R50,R51,R52,R60
Dell Latitude D800,D810,D630,D820,D820, just to name a few

It also appears standard on many desktops. You can also buy PCCard, PCI, and ExpressCard firewire cards from many vendors. It appears on all MiniDV camcorders (non of which are made by Apple). Need I continue?

Apple doesn't charge manufacturers to use firewire. Firewire in now an IEE standard. What Apple does charge for is the use of their trademarked name "FireWire". As long as you don't call it firewire, it's free.

For example. Sony uses the exact same firewire standard, but calls it iLink, thus they don't pay a dime to implement it on any device they wish.

And as far as mini display port goes, I think it's a problem when Apple doesn't open up their standards (or their modifications to an existing standard in this case). This is a good move on their part and manufacturers should jump through a few hoops to make sure their equipment IS compatible with Apple's gear before marketing it. That's in everyone's best interest, the manufacture's and especially the user's.

When Apple keeps their standards closed you end up with ADB, ADC, NuBus etc and that's not good. When standard are made totally free without any checks or hoop jumping, you end up with the endless mess PC user STILL suffer with on MS end. Even recent things like their Plays For Sure, never really played for sure (how ironic).

I have no complaints with Apple's move on this one.

Dec 02, 08 - 03:56 pm Comment from: Lilochris

Using a 12inch iBook G4 1.2Ghz with 768mb of ram.
It's not lightning fast but it certainly gets by with what ever I throw @ it. Leopard runs just fine in all respects.

Also have a 1.25Ghz Mac Mini G4 with with 1GB ram & it's even better.

My primary pad is a 17inch 2Ghz iMac Core 2 Duo. I recently upgraded it to 3Gb of Ram. I control my Mac Mini via my iMac with with the Airport Base station. Use it as a backup server.

My biggest complaint really is with my iMac. I feel Leopard should boot up quicker. It takes about 35-45 seconds to boot with Leopard. When it had tiger, it booted up in about 19 seconds even with bootcamp installed.
LooK>>>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiK7l8cpqPU

Wow, licensing a new type of plug for an already standardized interface. Who's going to pay for that?

"Actually, Apple does own Firewire."

Which these days is like owning a buggy whip design patent.

Didn't you read my comment above? The Mini DisplayPort is *not* just a miniature DisplayPort. It also includes a very non-standard analog video out pin, thus supporting VGA displays.

Apple left a lot of FireWire users up the creek with its new Macbooks. Why would anybody, having experienced that event, want to buy into another proprietary non-standard port?

"The Mini DisplayPort is *not* just a miniature DisplayPort. It also includes a very non-standard analog video out pin, thus supporting VGA displays."

In 2008 that sounds like a very wasted pin. Especially if you have to redesign the monitor to use it. So this is the buggy whip of miniature display connectors?

"Sony uses the exact same firewire standard, but calls it iLink, thus they don't pay a dime to implement it on any device they wish."

Using a different marketing name for it doesn't absolve them from paying royalties, and iLink is vanishing from Sony's newer prosumer cameras. it truly is the buggy whip of data interfaces.

"I have no complaints with Apple's move on this one."

Except that nobody will implement it. Nobody's going to license a connector design that they could design a license free variant of in a week and publish as an open standard from Steve "Is that my jackboot on your neck" Jobs.

"In 2008 that sounds like a very wasted pin. Especially if you have to redesign the monitor to use it. So this is the buggy whip of miniature display connectors?"

You miss the point. Apple included the analog video pin into the Mini DisplayPort connector so that the MacBooks could drive VGA monitors. Without it you're up for a very expensive Digital-to-Analog video converter as an accessory. Apple's solution is to sell you a $29.00 Mini DP-to-VGA Adapter so you can drive VGA monitors, projectors, etc. They also sell a Mini DP-to-DVI adapter for the same price. If you assume that the DisplayPort will become the standard video interface then the analog pin is included for "backward compatibility."

"Without it you're up for a very expensive Digital-to-Analog video converter as an accessory. "

So instead we're good with a very expensive Apple to standard connector adapter?

"If you assume that the DisplayPort will become the standard video interface then the analog pin is included for "backward compatibility.""

How about we assume the PC industry stays happy with the mini HDMI connector and ignores Apple's "innovation", or if it takes up DisplayPort, it designs it's own open mini connector not owned by a company known for its fascist intellectual property policies.

Now if Apple put this in the public domain, that would be different. And after all what's to lose, they don't own the DisplayPort standard, just the design of this small connector for it.

"Without it you're up for a very expensive Digital-to-Analog video converter as an accessory. "

So instead we're good with a very expensive Apple to standard connector adapter?

Nope. A typical Digital to Analog video converter runs into the hundreds of dollars, not $29.

"If you assume that the DisplayPort will become the standard video interface then the analog pin is included for "backward compatibility.""

"How about we assume the PC industry stays happy with the mini HDMI connector and ignores Apple's "innovation", or if it takes up DisplayPort, it designs it's own open mini connector not owned by a company known for its fascist intellectual property policies."

Then Apple made a bad decision and they will pay for it in the marketplace. There are a lot of arguments against miniHDMI, though.

"Now if Apple put this in the public domain, that would be different. And after all what's to lose, they don't own the DisplayPort standard, just the design of this small connector for it."

If they put it in the public domain then they have no control over compatibility. Pins the wrong size or shape, etc. What's wrong with a royalty-free license pray tell.

No, on second thought, don't. There's no talking to Apple haters.

"A typical Digital to Analog video converter runs into the hundreds of dollars"

Which makes complete sense since a typical display runs into the hundreds of dollars. $29 or $299, both are too expensive a price to pay for something you don't need if you design things right in the first place.

"If they put it in the public domain then they have no control over compatibility. Pins the wrong size or shape, etc. "

Yes, that's been a problem with every standardized connector ever made - not.

The problem is no-one wants to license anything from Steve-O since you know he'll have a brain fart two years down the track and pull all the licenses or arbitrarily deny your production license if he wants to compete with your product (Apple clone makers, App store anyone?).

For something as simple as a new type of connector for an existing interface, nobody's going to sign any sort of license with Apple, except those seeking to make $5 Displayport to Mini HDMI/HDMI/DVI adaptors to get rid of that ridiculous $29 Apple Tax to connect your MacBook to a standard display.

"What's wrong with a royalty-free license pray tell."

The fact that you cede control over whether you can ship your product which is based on otherwise open standards to a complete control freak.