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AppleTV owner here. I love it. I just need to invest in that USB encoder thing to rip more of my Movies to AppleTV format....

"(A download of Syriana from Warner Bros. goes for $20.)"

LOL! You are joking, right? This startuop has a limited future with that kind of pricing for that quality movie. No wonder Apple isn't doing business with Warner Bros..

The studios and networks are the problem on the content end of things. They just need a lot more content on iTunes to make this thing work. Then the lack of DVR capability becomes much less of an issue.
The cable companies are the problem on the DVR end of things.
Is there even a standard way the Apple TV could interface with cable companies (CableCard slot?) to get high quality video into that thing—assuming the cable companies would even allow that?

Apple TV has been a great addition around here. Whether feeding our music system, watching movies, or letting the grandkids see an awesome family photo show, it's done much more than we ever thought it could. I don't regret the purchase for a minute. A niche product, for sure, but in a good space.

So apparently, now every Apple product that doesn't sell as fast as the iPod and iPhone is a "flat-out flop"

That's the price of success I guess

AppleTV falls between pillars in strange ways. It suggests that you need an HD set to use it, yet it has no HD content. Also, TV from the Apple store is too expensive to replace casual viewing. So the studio's brilliant solution of making things even more expensive is doomed. I think they just want this category to fail so they can keep the existing broadcast model in place.

have both the 40GB and 160GB models. Love the product and it has huge potential. Don't care so much about buying music from the tv, but would love to see HD content available from the ITMS besides just a few Podcasts. Sux that the movie trailers stream from the tv at standard def too... wish that was also HD.

And why doesn't Apple take advantage of their own technology? Example, using the device to stream their various events. Just seams like even Apple doesn't care for it much so why would other content providers?

I look forward to the future of this product. The current model is a step in the right direction.

I think I'm gonna go buy one - just because I don't like Woolley's negative and superior attitude. Like he's got all the answers...

you are wrong in the worst way...

I use it for one thing, ok 2 things, and 2 things only. It serves as my music hub as I have a kick ass sound system, and for watching the ocassional vid podcast. Thats it, thats what I bought it for, and I love it.

I own an Apple TV and I'm happy with it. But it's all about content. TV shows need to be cheaper and more importantly movie rentals need to become available.

I don't think people understand the Apple TV paradigm. Apple doesn't want to be ties to cable, satellite, whatever so they'll never offer DVR. They want Apple TV to be iTunes on your TV. The key now is to get more content on iTunes.

We LOVE our Apple TV. If flat out Rocks.

Honestly people, think it out for once. The AppleTV is a device created to allow iTunes to broaden it's market. Since iTunes sales of TV shows and movies has been steadily increasing, the average user will eventually want a way to play their media the way they want to.

In other words, AppleTV doesn't have to be a success right now, all it has to do is be ready to catch the market when it turns in it's favor.

I am happy with my AppleTV - just wish I could download TV rentals directly from the sofa.

I am in on that motion too. Bully-for-Woolley!

Plus, I like the device.
Some of the DVR's out there have poor encoding quality.
They are a wonderful idea. I would add that to the AppleTV wishlist. BUT, as a consumer. I knew what it did. Due to the machine I had at the introductory of this item... it was not for me.
Now - since CUTTING cable tv... I prefer buying what I want to see... DVD or iTunes.

THIS is the future. Apple TV is not a FLOP... it just isn't in the CULTURE yet.

When Jobs says hobby he means the product is evolving. Just like the Hifi thingy, they are testing whether the market is good.

The AppleTV still has a lot of room to grow. The content distributors still are wary of Apple. Like the music gurus they want have their cake and eat it.

2 years down the road, OS X and the hardware will be so powerful that any content will be able to run on whatever Apple choose to develop.

Apple TV is meant to be a device that turns an HDTV into a giant iPod for the living room. I don't have an HDTV yet, but when I get one, I'll probably get an Apple TV too. The onboard software should be updated to mirror the iPod-related capabilities of the iPhone and iPod touch.

""The ballyhooed box has sold perhaps 250,000 units--far behind the 1 million sold for the iPhone, which was priced twice as high and has been on the market less than half as long."

Does anyone else see the failed logic behind this statement?
The AppleTV is probably ultimately going to be one of the biggest products Apple has.

http://metrophoenix.com/nobox/

I love my AppleTV! I have 11,000 photos on my Mac, and this is the best way to get them on the screen. It works great with movies taken with our digital cameras, but there are some shortfalls:

1) Event Grouping: For any given event, I might have photos and videos, but iTunes forces me to break up my content into those categories. I want to create my own categories and add whatever content I want to them.

2) iTunes make home videos a royal pain! I have to have separate versions for my iPhone and Apple TV. What the hell for?!?!?! I haven't even tried to figure out what I'm going to do with a .Mac web gallery!

3) The audio off my Sony digital camera uses a format that doesn't jive well with apple products. It has something to do with muxed MPEGs, but I'm not quite sure. What I am sure of, is that converting the muxed MPEG audio to something usable on my iPhone isn't possible with QuickTime Pro!

4) Let my play DVD images on my AppleTV. I've got a lot of old DVDs that have photos and videos that would be a real pain to transfer over to iTunes. And really, why should I have to? Apple may have abandoned the DVD format, but it's still alive and well in my world!

I love my AppleTV, but a few things need to get fixed! Every time someone new sees my photos on my TV, they want an AppleTV. They're just put off by the $300 and the belief that doing anything useful with their Windoze boxes will cost them more hours than they have in a standard lifetime!

"• Let iTunes rip DVDs as it can rip CDs for music."

This will never happen as long as the DMCA is in effect. Circumventing copyright protections is illegal under this bogus law.
I would be willing to allow them to add DRM to it though if it were somehow made legal.

Apple TV owner here. I think it's a fantastic product that is limited by content owners and bandwidth.

- I'd subscribe to more shows if more meeting my interest were available.
- I'd surely purchase HD films if it were available at a reasonable price. Would negate the HD DVD / Blu-Ray wars for owners.

I use it equally for music and video now. Apple TV, a DVD player and Xbox 360 fill in as a replacement for cable. I'd rather spend my money watching what I want when I want rather than having 500 channels of some good content mixed in with a lot of crap. It's also refreshing to get away from news these days since it's either focused on keeping us scared, slanderous politics or hollywood tabloid b.s..

What could make it better besides more content and possibly HD content? How about these:

- Visualizer like the one in iTunes
- iTunes store (hopefully coming soon with new mobile store rollout)
- Apple event, product overviews & tutorial videos

my $.02

im a apple tv and ipod hi-fi owner,this thing they write is nonsense,forbes didn´t test the product,and review it,so...the should try before talking about it.

I will buy one when the following features are added.
1. A DVD or DVD-HD slot is added or they allow me to rip DVDs with my iMac.
2. They upgrade the content to full HD.
3. Allow users to buy and download content using the Apple TV.

Basicly I want my media anywhere I go. Via iPod, Apple TV, iPhone, PC(work), and Mac(home). And I wnat to be able to get new content on the fly.

I have all the above except the iPhone and AppleTV. 2 Macs, 3 iPods, 1 PC, and a pear tree.

I'll get an iPhone as soon as you can buy one from Verizon.

I have to agree with Forbes. The TV offers only one feature I want - the ability to send my EyeTV DVR recordings to my TV - and nothing else. Hard to justify the expense for just one useful feature. I won't rent sub-quality videos from iTunes, while iPhoto and Youtube are worthless gimmicks (Hey kids, want to watch a family slideshow!). Unless Leopard adds something substantial to the TV's feature list, it will never sell well.

@ Eric

"I just need to invest in that USB encoder thing to rip more of my Movies to AppleTV format...."

Handbrake is great for converting content for iPhone, Apple TV, iPods and more.... no USB encoder required.

Sounds to me like this guy's career is an "iFlop" and all he can do is throw stones at icons to gain his 15 minutes of fame.... I think iTV will develop over time - you gotta be a risk taker...

Okay, two words:

Video Rentals

Apple TV... sorry...brain freeze...

AppleTV for me was a great purchase. I was, however, a bit bummed at the time I bought it because they upped the storage capacity a couple weeks later. It's ok though, I have been pleasantly surprised by its capabilities, and I thoroughly enjoy the Handbrake => AppleTV process. I love not having to search through my disks when I want to watch a movie. My father-in-law was extremely impressed when photos from his trips to other countries were displayed directly to my big screen tv - it made for a much more enjoyable experience than when he showed them to us at his house with the projector and his Dull... 3 Cheers for AppleTV Yay!!!

Magic Word: move - um, move your library to your AppleTV with ease? .`)

The reason there is no DVR in the AppleTV is because the idea is to shift users away from TV as we know it (cable or satellite) and use the Internet as our TV provider instead. If you are downloading the shows on demand, you don't need a DVR. If the content moves to the Internet, DVRs aren't necessary. By placing a DVR in the AppleTV, you're essentially telling users to not buy the content from iTunes Store, but rather 'steal it' from broadcast TV. I find it amusing that the networks have no problem with VCRs and Tivo which take the content for FREE and make it on demand, yet they are so against 'raising the price' of TV shows from free to $0.99 as Apple wants and instead insist on $4.99ish shows?

If the argument is advertising, make the TV shows in widescreen and place ads at the bottom in the unused black space, have them run down there concurrent with the show so the commercials don't chop the show up like they do on TV and people will download them like crazy AND the network would have 23 minutes of commercials during a show rather than 7 minutes, but they don't think far enough ahead to see that TV is dying, the Internet is the future medium for all entertainment and that people aren't stupid and it's WAY easier to just pirate the shows for free than to go through the hoops they are trying to make people go through to get content.

AppleTV isn't a flop, the networks are a flop and as long as they remain in the stone age, their power will continue to decrease.

Funny that they are saying the AppleTV is a failure because it has only sold 250,000 units, then goes on later to mention TiVo and the fact that they now have 4.3 million customers - it took TiVo 5 YEARS to even to 1 million, and he's going to throw out TiVo's number as if it is some sort of comparison? At the rate AppleTV is going, it will be on a better performance trend than TiVo, so what's the point? Granted, I personally don't have much desire for an AppleTV right now, but I don't think it is a flop. The minute they have movie rentals on iTunes, I will run out and purchase an AppleTV. I have TiVos, and I have rented a few things from Amazon Unbox via the TiVo, and it's pretty neat, but the additional things the AppleTV will allow me to do (play my iTunes library without having to burn all my purchased songs and import them again for one) will make me a customer.

A great product. Long live "handbrake" I think the Apple TV is a sleeper. They've only sold 250K because they haven't really marketed it- everyone who sees what ours does is, well, amazed. OK to make it better? A movie rental service, an iTunes screen saver when playing music (instead of my photos), allow me to plug in an external drive, blend the mac mini & the Apple TV into one product. Allow the Apple TV to be a personal media server, so I can clear all the bulk out of my desktop.. It likely has a processor that is capable of the task presently- I mean, I have an old cube that serves the function reasonably well.

whuddeveh ....

the only reason i haven't bought one yet, is that i'm waiting til spring to get the hdtv.

i don't want a dvr, or timeshifting, or download rentals, or youtube, or dvd ripper, or whatever else.

all i want is to be able to stream my 600+ gigs of content from my computer 9or external hd) to my tv.

that's all, and that's what iTV does.

so if its a flop, then i just hope they keep it on the market until '08 and i'll snatch one up. because if they do pull these things, i'd expect the ebay re-sale value to go through the roof.

Apple TV was always overpriced and underfeatured compared to other similar devices out there. that it's flopped is not suprising.

Only 250 000 units? Well that is more than Microsoft has sold its Zune player?

We don´t know yet how well the Apple TV sells because it has not seen the first xMas sales yet.

Tivo has sold only what 4300 000 boxes. How long has that taken? How many years?

Anal is always fun before they ad that yst thing at the (rear)end. They are like hemorrhoids or something.

This guy's lack of objectivity and logic is so apparent it makes my head spin. He obviously has a HUGE axe to grind and picked on Apple-TV to do so. Was it because Steve wouldn't agree to an interview (after reading this I wouldn't either)? Is it because he doesn't like Apple and can't stand the recent good press its been receiving? I'm not sure but the whole article is like some childish rant. I imagine hes in a corner now sucking his thumb and consoling himself with a blankly.

Yes, what this guy fails to mention, is that none of the other options has been a market-engulfing success either. Outside of the DVR capability everyone is limited by the same things:

Content providers' greed
Cable companies' greed
Low bandwidth/Huge Hi-Def files
Lack of HiDef content in general
Lack of HiDef TVs in people's homes (two or three more years for that)
Hard disk needs to be bigger. This is one area I don't thing the small notebook drives are worth it. As long as the device isn't any bigger than a standard DVD player, it will be fine.

I love my Apple TV. I use Elgato Eye TV on my iMac with a USB Tuner and an to record TV shows and encode them for the Apple TV (using Elgato's H264 encoder accelerator) they are saved to iTunes and synced to my Apple TV. I even have bought some Classic Music Videos from iTunes store and a few movies and TV Shows I missed.
I watch what I want when I want and were I want.

He's also ignoring the fact that a LOT of people have purchased Mac Minis to accomplish what the AppleTV does. It's impossible to break those out, but they are surely significant in terms of the AppleTV numbers. I bought a Mac Mini before the AppleTV came out to do exactly what the AppleTV does.

And 250,000 sales with little promotion and the networks holding them back is pretty big. Remember, TiVO didn't get much uptake until they got the deal with the satellite company. Right now the only thing really keeping them afloat is the Comcast deal. TiVo is also a totally different product - they're working within an existing (crappy) system, so naturally they're going to sell a lot more. AppleTV is trying to change the game, the barrier to entry is perceived to be higher since it doesn't fit right in with the existing system.

Tell the man to kiss Steve's butt.

Hey, remember, the iPhone is a failure cause it did not sell a million in the first day/week/month. What ever.

And the iPod is a failure cause it did not sell a million in ---- ahhh to poop with it.

I just get a kick with all these people saying that Apple cannot do this or that, then when Apple does it in fine style, they say, well, they did not do more and more and more.

Why does an iPod not have a phone, dvd recorder, tv, home movie theater and a spray painter in each 2in by 2 inch player?????

Hey, I guess iPod is a flop too!!!! Cheeeeeezzzzzzeeee.

Enough already. I am going home, have a drink and catch some good sci fi. Have a good weekend.

en

A startup named Vudu in Santa Clara, Calif. has deals with all six Hollywood heavyweights and a score of international distributors, in part because it doesn't try to dictate wholesale prices. (A download of Syriana from Warner Bros. goes for $20.) The studios also let Vudu users rent movies for 24 hours, not an option on Apple TV.

Well hooray for Vudu! You can buy Syriana on DVD for less than ten bucks, or you can download it from Vudu for $20. Let me think a minute...

It's no big surprise that the movie studios, even more than the music distributors, want to maintain their strangle-hold on the gravy train; but the whole thing is unraveling faster than they can stitch it back together again. None of this really has a whole lot to do with Apple TV directly. My guess is that Apple TV will be waiting patiently in the wings to beam premium content from computer to tv screen whenever all this useless struggling on the part of the big media companies finally comes to an end.

And you can't rent movies from Apple TV because Apple TV is not a content provider. It's a bridge, not a car company! When the iTunes Store starts renting movies, Apple TV will be there to handle the transfer from computer to big screen.

Hi, I guess my site, http://appletvsource.com, is the last of a dying breed. I remember there were so many Apple TV-related blogs when Apple TV first came out. Now, my site is the ONLY one I know of that updates its content daily. I sure hope Apple "resurrects" the product soon.

I have to disagree with you that the success of the Apple TV is dependent on the content provider. Apple is as much to blame as they are. Apple TV is capable of so much more and yet Apple refuses to put more relevant features on it. If only Apple offers some kind of a development kit for it, Apple TV would be a great platform for Internet-based TV and content.

As for HD content, I have compiled a list of HD podcasts and published it on my site. The list gets updated quite frequently. It is located at http://hd.appletvsource.com.

Higher Resolution and TV/Movie Rentals - I'll buy one.

1. DVR capability
2. Cheap rentals

If it had these, they would not be able to keep them in stock.

Placeholder?

Funny... I'm currently listening to MacBreak Weekly, ON my tv... It'll be all about the movie rentals soon.

"If it had these, they would not be able to keep them in stock."

If it had these, it would be a Tivo, only for $200 more than a Tivo.

For a woolley headed Scot, his concept is Floppy from the outset with regards to Mr. Jobs comment on the Apple TV.

I think he has a floppy dick to match his floppy head & floppy spine!

Lack of HiDef TVs in people's homes (two or three more years for that)

Agreed.

One of Steve's greater faults is he can be TOO far ahead of the curve.

Non-HD TV's are like Windows PC's: lousy, cheap, and everywhere. AppleTV 1.0 should have supported both formats. HD-only would've made for a nice future upgrade...

Apple, if you want AppleTV to be a real hit, give it a fast DVD & a huge internal drive for storing movies. Do for the video shelf what the iPod did for the CD rack.

I have the 160 gb AppleTV and we love it! The kids love being able to watch their videos at the push of a button and I love not having all my DVDs scratched up. What I would like to see...

1) The USB port opened up to allow an external HD to act as extra storage.

2) Movie rentals (and/or iTunes shopping) straight from AppleTV.

3) DVR capabilities. (Drooooooool)

Just my wish list.

I don't care for the HD content. Would be nice but most of my movies are not in HD...yet. And I don't really need to see Barney in HD. Actually I don't really need to see Barney at all but my 2 year loves that dinosaur and the AppleTV.