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Expect more of this as BlueRay won over HD-DVD... Region locking, DRM...

Feb 27, 08 - 01:13 pm Comment from: ericdano

Hey, wait now. I have a brand spanking new MacPro hooked up to a Dell 22" LCD. It is absolutely great. Great display. Probably the ONLY thing Dell makes that is good.

This is true of nearly all non HDCP display devices and protected content.

@ericdano - That is because Dell doesn't make them - they just put their name on them.. And you really can't blame Dell for an inferior operating system - their machines are actually pretty good

Not having a SCART socket on my 14" CRT TV, I have to plug my DVD player into my VHS deck via a SCART cable, and then the VHS deck into my TV via an RF cable to watch DVDs.

Damn it if my "The War of the Worlds" DVD (the Tom Cruise version) refuses to play through the VHS deck and onto the TV because of so-called 'copy-protection'.

Damn these new-fangled standards. And damn that Digital Rights Management software. Damn it all to hell!

We had to buy a Dell monitor with HDCP in order to use our PS3 cluster for parallel signal processing. Apple needs to include HDCP in their cinema displays. HDCP is a fact of life, get over it.

MDN includes a copyright symbol at he bottom of their webpage. Why not let anyone copy their website? Hypocrites!!!

"All rights reserved." - Hypocrisy!!!

".... Hollywood should drop the senseless DRM they are insisting upon as it only punishes paying customers while generating laughter from pirates....."

Exactly. Kind of like gun laws... they restrict ownership for law-abiding citizens and has virtually no effect on gun related crimes... the legal gun owners are not selling crack on the corner, robbing people, and engaging in drive-by shootings.

We've rented three movies this week. This new rental service through AppleTV is addictive.

Hang on....

Isn't it called Apple ..... "TV" ?


I can't remember the upgrade being rebranded Apple "any kind of display device you decide to couple with it". As far as I can remember it's still called Apple TV.

Surely all TV's incorporating HDMI sockets have implemented the HDCP?

Ligitimate users of this technology needn't worry too much, surely.

Feb 27, 08 - 01:32 pm Comment from: Mac User since 1984

I got nailed with this with my Sony Bravia flat screen TV (Model KDL V32 XBR2) Apparently this model which I bought recently doesn't speak HDCP over the HDMI. Worked fine once I switched over to component connections, but I'm annoyed by the rat's nest of wires now hanging out the back of the Apple TV.

@ Gary

"Reserving rights" doesn't lock out your computer monitor to prevent you from reading the content - NO DRM on this website.

Feb 27, 08 - 01:39 pm Comment from: Brain Fart

I have a brand new Mac Pro hooked up to a 24inch Dell monitor and it's both better and cheaper than an Apple cinema display.

I'd rather be a guy with a superior Dell monitor and an extra 8GB of RAM in my Octo Mac Pro than some idiot with an inferior Apple display and with just the stock 2GB RAM installed.

Feb 27, 08 - 01:46 pm Comment from: Demon

I've rent Movies from iTunes and My Apple TV is connected to a 22" Widescreen Samsung Monitor Via a HDMI to DVI cable and have not had any issues. But all the movies I've rent so far are SD movies. I have not tried the HD movies yet, should work ok as the Samsung monitor supports the HDCP. And in Apple Movie Rentals only the HD Movies are protected with the HDCP requirement if I remember correctly, that's why they are only available in the Apple TV Online Rentals and not from the standard iTunes store.

I also have a Dell 24" display hooked up to my PowerBook- it's a great display- physically larger, picture-in-picture capability, built-in media reader, built-in USB hub, landscape or portrait mode, and height/tilt/swivel adjustable. All for about $200 less than Apple wanted for a 23" Cinema Display. It also has a three year warranty to Apple's 1 year. Can't say I feel bad about it at all. The *only* thing the ACD has that the Dell doesn't is a FireWare hub, and since I only have a single FireWire device, that's no loss to me.

Please. HD-DVD had it's own DRM too, so it's not just Blu-ray.

Hmmm, you said, "Damn it if my "The War of the Worlds" DVD (the Tom Cruise version) refuses to play through the VHS deck and onto the TV because of so-called 'copy-protection'."


I would think that if you used the component out that it would record on the VHS player (or DVD recorder for that matter).

Does anyone have facts vs component out from AppleTV???

en

Feb 27, 08 - 01:54 pm Comment from: Toasty

The comment MDN about the Dell monitor hooked to anything apple is simply uncalled for. I use Dell monitors with all 5 of my Apples. I know Dell OEM's them. But they are a quality product at a more than reasonable price point. Just because it has a "Dell" logo on it doesn't make it bad. If Apple had Monitors within the same price point. I'd be buying them instead.

Feb 27, 08 - 02:02 pm Comment from: qka

Last year there was a story going around how one of the larger Apple Cinema Display monitors and a same sized Dell monitor actually used the same Panasonic LCD panel. The reviews thought the Apple was slightly better, but was twice the price.

As much as I like Apple, sometimes they are overpriced. Now to use my Logitech mouse to click "Submit"

@Brain Fart:
Dell buys LCD panels from the same manufacture. Dell buys the ones that apple rejects. That's why they're cheaper, but they're certainly not better.

"I can't remember the upgrade being rebranded Apple "any kind of display device you decide to couple with it". As far as I can remember it's still called Apple TV."

Hey, I like fanboism as much as the next guy, but come on! Now you're really pushing it.

If I hooked it up to my Apple 30" Cinema Display, I would have the same issue. The fact that he's using a Dell display is neither here nor there.

Actually, Dell displays are pretty good. I've never dealt with their LCDs, but way back when I used their CRTs and they were top-notch.

He should be glad it works over component at all, I'm screwed out of an upconverting DVD player because they only allow upconverting over HDCP HDMI and my CRT HDTV only has component inputs. Older DVD players could do it until the lawyers got to them. Stupidity that I'm stuck at 480...

" got nailed with this with my Sony Bravia flat screen TV (Model KDL V32 XBR2) Apparently this model which I bought recently doesn't speak HDCP over the HDMI. Worked fine once I switched over to component connections, but I'm annoyed by the rat's nest of wires now hanging out the back of the Apple TV."

Sony not implementing copy protection. This is unheard of.

Just out of interest, how would Blu-ray players play content through this TV? Aren't sony the biggest backer of Blu-ray?

wait, why is the article and this post titled "...require HDCP for playback", if the machine itself suggested component cables? Yeah, HD would be great, but it seems that not having a Hidef set is going to stop the ATV from playing a movie...

Feb 27, 08 - 02:28 pm Comment from: mr_matalino

I'm a Dell monitor owner as well (24"). I wrestled with the decision but after awhile it became clear. Better technology, bigger screen, cheaper price (just missing FW). I hate looking at the logo and it doesn't quite fit my MBP/Apple keyboard perfect, but I'm not crying over it.

uhm, how is the dell monitor superior, brain fart? They're both samsung lcds, wrapped up in either apple's or dell's branding. They're the same monitor. Yes, the cinema display is more expensive, so that's why you buy the dell. Not because it's superior

"I don't own an HDTV, which is required for the Apple TV ..."

simply wrong.

an HD TV is a TV with at least 720p in resolution. i have a panasonic vierra 42" TV, PAL standard 480p resolution (it's not an HD TV) an my apple tv works just fine.

it seems to me journalists don't do any research before they write something nowadays.

Feb 27, 08 - 02:58 pm Comment from: Spark

"grafting Ed Asner's head onto Jessica Biel's body"

Oooo... I just tasted a little throw-up in the back of mouth.

Feb 27, 08 - 03:06 pm Comment from: Brau

Although they left out the lockdown on where you can use your own paid for content, I'm glad to at least to see *somebody* reporting the hardware based DRM on the HDMI output. People should know what DRM is included in the products they choose to support. I'm waiting for the stupid assumption to fall that somehow a digital signal means a product will be stolen. A thief can steal from the component outputs very easily and create a very good copy; it's not the broadcast format that allows theft but the sheer desire.

Feb 27, 08 - 03:07 pm Comment from: Ampar

"grafting Ed Asner's head onto Jessica Biel's body"

The other way around would be much worse. You can bag the head.

I'm planning to get a Mac mini and a Dell Ultrasharp 22 widescreen monitor. I think it's gonna be cool.

Feb 27, 08 - 03:22 pm Comment from: John E

MacDailyNews should never have picked up this bogus article. it's one more self-centered whine by an idiot who blames Apple for their own stupidity.

ALL HDMI-out connections from every piece of hardware of any kind require HDCP compliance at the other end. this is a central spec of the HDMI connector concept. like maybe anyone posting technical blog items ought to know this? Duh!

ATV gives you the option to use component connectors instead to avoid HDCP. All you need is - a Television! virtually all TV's have included component inputs for several years now. that's why Apple put "TV" in the product's name! Double Duh!

using a computer monitor to "test" ATV is plainly not-clear-on-the-concept. then whining about it is simply trolling.

the blogs are full of troll pieces like this. usually MacDailyNews does a good job of ignoring them. but this time you gave the troll hits, alas.

Feb 27, 08 - 03:43 pm Comment from: Logan

Dell monitors probably use the same panels that Apple monitors use. Don't get me wrong; I love Apple, but their monitors are definitely over-priced.

Feb 27, 08 - 03:44 pm Comment from: Logan

Also, Dell sells 24"+ monitors with HDCP HDMI connections on the back, and component too.

Feb 27, 08 - 04:01 pm Comment from: ron

@Demon,"I've rent Movies from iTunes and My Apple TV is connected to a 22" Widescreen Samsung Monitor Via a HDMI to DVI cable and have not had any issues."

Do you mean that you tore them out of iTunes, or that you've rented them?

Feb 27, 08 - 04:03 pm Comment from: Brain Fart

@ squid

I remember when Steve Jobs said that at one of the keynotes. I believed it back then to.

My 24 inch Dell is better than the ACD in pretty much every way. It has better colour, better contrast yadda yadda yadda (it has no Firewire port but my Mac has plenty of those on the front and the back.)

I used both in my work. I use a 23inch Apple cinema display for my illustration rig and 2 Dell displays for my work on my video/3d animation setup. The Dells outperform the Apple displays. This is why I chose to get a Dell monitor for my new 8 core Mac Pro.

Dells monitors are better and cheaper. It's as simple as that. Maybe reading MDN you think Apple can do no wrong. But I'm no fanboy to any company. I go where the best performance is. The logo on the front doesn't matter to me much.

I'm sure you think RAM bought from Apple at their crazy prices is better than the exact same RAM purchased from OWC to.

OK MDN, your comments are getting a little ridiculous. Stop acting like a jealous school kid and be a professional news source. Absurd...no wonder people have a bad taste in their mouth for Mac fanboys.

Feb 27, 08 - 04:10 pm Comment from: Brain Fart

Oh and my Dell has Display Port, HDMI and memory card reader built in. Also I can rotate it when I paint in portrait view using Corel Painter. Nice option to have. It has newer LCD display with brighter colour. Oh and that extra inch helps. Try one you might just like it.

And while I'm not positive, I'm just about willing to guess that Apple's Cinema Displays don't have DHCP either.....

Should have bought the 22" HP-it supports HDCP over DVI.
Little things like that is why HP is kicking Dell's butt.

Feb 27, 08 - 05:25 pm Comment from: Ampar

" . . . no wonder people have a bad taste in their mouth for Mac fanboys."

That's only because it doesn't taste like chicken.

A year or two ago, finding monitors with HDCP was hard. Gateway was an early adopter. I have the same Dell monitor as the author, but it cost me $300 a couple years ago, while the Gateway with HDCP at the time was $500!

I've been posting in all these, why doesn't iTunes download HD, and answering that MPAA requires a HDCP connection from start to end. No HDCP in a Mac, no HD movies.

HDCP HAS BEEN CRACKED!!

Like all copy protection schemes, they get broken by the pirates.

What HDCP is supposed to do is prevent not the experienced cracker, but prevent CASUAL PIRACY.

You see if Hollywood makes their stuff copy protected, gives all sorts of threatening warnings and such, most law abiding citizens will comply.

The pirate doesn't give a rats ass if they copy protect it or not. He can still do what he wants.

The same idea applies to locking a house. It keeps the honest people honest.

A burglar just kicks the door in no problem.

Now it has been mentioned that with all these EFI based Mac's being produced that Apple will begin crippling the video and audio outputs, using EFI to report/verify DRM schemes and monitor your content.

It's 100% absolutely true. It's coming for sure OR ELSE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE IMPLEMENTED EFI!!!

EFI was Intel's brainchild, part of the Trusted Computing bullshit. The TCP module was no longer needed, the computer id is sufficient to implement trusted computing.

EFI is a very powerful firmware level, has it own boot environment. Read/write to media contact the internet without the OS even being loaded.

Good going hollywood. Treat every customer as a potential pirate. You only end up pushing more people to piracy. The music cartels tried shoving DRM down the collective throats of the consumer. As a result a large portion of the population now pirates music. All the DRM and lawsuits in the world have not been able to stop this. The consumer is going to conclude that they don't need bluray, dvds, or hollywood to enjoy hidef content on their televisions and computers. They'll just cut out the middle man. Why stay in a relationship where you're constantly getting abused?

If people want to backup videos and movies they paid for they should be able to do it. Screw HDCP.

Brain Fart,

You don't know what you're talking about. Only Apple's and Eizo's high-end monitors are SWOPE certified for color accuracy. So you may think your Dell is better, and in some ways it is. For gaming it's probably a better choice. But for serious work, there's nothing like Apple or Eizo (which costs significantly more than Apple's monitors).

Feb 27, 08 - 07:20 pm Comment from: Magicpony

I found that a small piece of black tape over the Dell logo on my 24" monitor helps me sleep better at night

Feb 27, 08 - 07:32 pm Comment from: Ampar

A large piece of black tape around Michael Dell would be more fun.

Feb 28, 08 - 11:24 am Comment from: NCIceman

I have to disagree with the Dell monitor dis. While I would never buy a Dell pc over a mac, their monitors are damned nice, and the price/value point is very good. I have the FPW 24 with dual inputs (hello, apple?) and it is perfect for my needs, which include both mac and pc gaming.

Apple is long overdue in updating their monitor line, unfortunately.

Feb 28, 08 - 11:28 am Comment from: NCIceman

Oh, and I also disagree with the DRM nonsense that required corporate ass-kissing compatible hardware. This is something that we all really need to watch and speak out against, as the media industries are really trying to talk display and drive vendors in to firmware-imbedding their DRM nonsense.