MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Nov 19, 07 - 04:49 pm Comment from: El Guapo

Slow news day eh MDN?

Nov 19, 07 - 04:55 pm Comment from: Scott

El Guapo,

Maybe not a slow news day, but I've been having trouble loading the site all day. So they probably need to fix those issues.

Nov 19, 07 - 04:56 pm Comment from: Grigori

More like slow server day at MDN.

Nov 19, 07 - 04:59 pm Comment from: Ampar

An equine's postmortem flagellation?

Nov 19, 07 - 05:01 pm Comment from: NeoTheta

Unfortunately, I've encountered man "IT" folks who now use bootcamp to justify not supporting Mac OS X. For instance, Fidelity investments now claims that they support Mac -- just run our Windows application using Bootcamp.

This is a mistake. The market votes with it's feet.

;-}

Nov 19, 07 - 05:08 pm Comment from: Lurker_PC

Scott / Grigori - I saw a message earlier today that MDN's servers were being upgraded today.

MDN - did I misread the message? (Perhaps it was my company mentioning that we're having an upgrade today.)

Peace.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:11 pm Comment from: Ampar

"This is a mistake."

Which is why I've wanted Apple to use some of its cash to fund OS X only development of vertical business apps. And games too, but that's a slightly different issue.

Whatever. I'll NEVER buy the Windows version.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:12 pm Comment from: El Guapo

@Scott

Maybe it's the plethora (couldn't resist that one) of non-news that's slowing the server!

For games, maybe. But I have Parallels and bootcamp on my 10.4.11 system, and I hardly use it........in fact, I don't think I've used it in over a month.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:18 pm Comment from: Anonymous©

It's called standard boilerplate language. Every company has to list even the most remote risks, so that investors can't say they weren't warned.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:19 pm Comment from: El Guapo

Tonight's weather is dark, follwed by widely scattered light in the morning!

Nov 19, 07 - 05:20 pm Comment from: Willie G

I have to say that any developer who takes this stance is certainly not worth my time as I have no interest in completely re-booting my computer just to use a piece of software.

I know that there is always Parallels (which I do have, but use only for my work's e-mail client, Lotus *sigh* Notes), and Fusion, but neither of these environments run all Windows apps. For example... Ross-Tech Vag-Com, which I as a Volkswagen Driver would love to have as it allows one's computer to interface with, for example, my GTI's ECU, and various control modules.

As much as I would love to be able to use that software, I refuse to partition off valuable drive space and be forced to re-boot any time I want to use it. It's just plain silly... silly I tellz ya

Nov 19, 07 - 05:21 pm Comment from: Bob

Just out of curiousty, have any of you used boot camp for Windows games and do they play well?

@NeoTheta: "This is a mistake. The market votes with it's feet."

Besides your mixed metaphor, you're ignoring for what the market has already been voting, since Boot Camp's introduction.
Notice how quickly Qwest jumped up to say that they do indeed support the Apple OS when reports said otherwise.
I've heard directly from Windows-only services that they are NOW responding to market pressures, and working on Apple versions of their software, long after Boot Camp became available.
The market is voting with its wallet, and its wallet is opening up to Apple.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:27 pm Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

A standard SEC warning, nothing more. And the chances of this happening considering the resurgence of all things Mac are non-existent. No worries here.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:31 pm Comment from: Life in the real world

TELL THOSE GESTAPO IT DEPARTMENTS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN BY "SUPPORT FOR THE MAC" IS SUPPORT FOR OS X ON A MACINTOSH, NOT FOR WINDOWS ON A MAC.

Developers would be stupid to ignore or continue to ignore Mac users. Mac users buy proportionally more software, and they're more inclined to pay $$ for software.

We even pay for "free" software!! I sent money to 4 freeware/donationware developers this week alone!!

Nov 19, 07 - 05:32 pm Comment from: gregmills

Actually, software developers know better than anyone the reluctance of Mac users to put up with windows and all those issues we avoid by going with Apple. Malcrosoft will never catch up with Apple in user interface development. I can't think of any software compelling enough to get me to load Windows of any stripe to run it. The other side of the situation is that people who want a Mac but have been sold on the "got to run windows because"...... lie, may be the very ones to demand a Mac version of important software.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:33 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

"An equine's postmortem flagellation?"
nope, an Equus' postmortem flatulation.

Nov 19, 07 - 05:39 pm Comment from: Life in the real world

@El Guapo

Good 'un. Classic Carlin!

To Willie G:
I also use Notes, however there are a OS X versions, I use the 7.0.3version (its Universal) , and the newest one, 8, which I think is a major revision wil l be out as beta probably by the end of Jan. Hope this comment helps you from using a Windoze version.

Nov 19, 07 - 06:03 pm Comment from: Ampar

Wandering joe: But isn't that marely gas?

What new Mac OS programs are there? New ones in the last year not created by Apple?

MDN - give us a list of all the "new" OSX developers and the new programs they have made for OSX.

Nov 19, 07 - 06:32 pm Comment from: silverhawk

...flagellation or flatulation, who cares! You either beat it or pass it.

Nov 19, 07 - 06:44 pm Comment from: Spark

From all the developer's reviews of Leopard that I've heard it seems that there is a great deal of excitement at the prospect of developing for Leopard. The frameworks in Leopard made one guy at Ars Technica proclaim that developers were wishing that there was no need for backwards compatibility with Tiger; Leopard is that much better. The upshot is that we users won't see the real power and benefit of our switch to Leopard for about a year, when applications taking advantage of all the Leopard underpinnings finally start hitting the streets. Cooler apps coming from more robust development tools will assure that best in class software remains on the Mac.

wishes to run MAc only apps in the OSX environment.

yes, That describes me. Though, some software that isn't available on Mac, for example a few games... I did buy a iMac and toyed with Bootcamp and XP to see how it all went.

Which was perfectly fine.

Yet because I STILL have a working PC with XP beside my beloved MAC I no longer bother to boot in boot camp.

My mac is solid and I love it.

my pc is for gaming though I have been doing far less on it.

95% converted Win to Mac person.

Sorry Apple... I still need to play some games now and then.

David Lee

Ampar, where have you been young man?

MacDailyNews Take: A non-story.

OK, MDN, you took a non-story and made it a story.

Of course there's risk with Boot Camp, and IMO it's a risk worth taking. The developers who choose to ignore Mac only hang themselves. At this point I would NOT want my future to be dependent on MS's abilities, much less legacy-bound to a Windows past!

Those who wish to remain dinosaurs deserve to die.

Naw! Ya think?!

I hope some Windows developers start making Mac apps so we can have an even better platform.

The worst Mac apps from Apple:
- iPhoto (come over to Mac ACDSee)
- Finder (Windows Explorer is still much better)

Nov 19, 07 - 07:35 pm Comment from: British Mac Head

I was on the tech support line to MYOB today who make the accounting software that our company uses. I mentioned that for a while now the Mac version has not felt very Mac like as if it was just a Mac port of a Windows app. He told me that apparently they have addressed that and for the next version which is version 17 of MYOB accounting we will get a fully fledged Mac app that has been independently developed for Macs. So here is an example of a fairly large developer making a renewed commitment to the Mac platform post bootcamp.

Nov 19, 07 - 07:50 pm Comment from: Gandalf

What Intel Giveth, Microsoft Taketh Away

http://exo-blog.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-intel-giveth-microsoft-taketh-away.html

“What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away.” Such has been the conventional wisdom surrounding the Windows/Intel (“Wintel”) duopoly since the early days of Windows 95. In practical terms, it means that performance advancements on the hardware side are quickly consumed by the ever-increasing complexity of the Windows/Office code base. Case in point: Microsoft Office 2007 which, when deployed on Windows Vista, consumes over 12x as much memory and nearly 3x as much processing power as the version that graced PCs just 7 short years ago (Office 2000).

Nov 19, 07 - 08:18 pm Comment from: treestman

I've said this before. The lessons of OS/2 being "a better Windows than Windows" should not be forgotten.

The argument simply doesn't make sense. Only a very small percentage of those who buy Intel-powered Macs can be expected to purchase and install Windows, with or without the help of Boot Camp. As the ranks of Mac owners continue to swell, only the most stupid and short-sighted software developer would choose to limit his potential Macintosh customer base to a mere sliver of the Macintosh pie.

Nov 19, 07 - 09:00 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

This is exactly what I've been saying. Once users find that they can run Windows on a Mac, they do. It starts with just this one very important application. Then over time all they use is Windows.

This happens with BootCamp as well as Parallels.

I try to discourage the use of Windows with clients but many see it as a solution to the everyday compatibility problems.

One of my clients is a law firm for example. The industry is so dependent on Windows that once an attorney or paralegal slips into Bootcamp or Parallels, it's hard to get them back out.

People also need to realize that the Macintosh is not the hardware. If this trend takes hold and fewer and fewer applications for OS X come out, people will have to go to Windows and at that point, the Macintosh is dead.

Nov 19, 07 - 09:00 pm Comment from: Ampar

bIzarRo BalLmeR: "Ampar, where have you been young man?"
In dis guy's disguise. I said I would return as Ampar when MDN had registrations. Ta da.

The big news to-day about Apple is that no decision has been made to pay any dividends to the long suffering shareholders. This story has not yet been taken up by the market analysts in an effort to diss the stock, but it's coming soon at a theatre near you.

This particular shareholder would like to see some dividends, so as to reassure us all the big cash hoard isn't sitting somewhere in sub prime mortgage spectacular growth fidelity assured funds.

More illogic. Remember that when using Boot Camp the iMac is open to all the various viruses, and other malware that plague windows. Running to many Windows applications means risk, and having to use anti-virus, anti-malware, etc.
Who would want to do that?

Nov 19, 07 - 09:05 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

To save the Macintosh, which is OS X, I think Apple needs to seriously look at putting OS X out on other hardware. I buy Macs because of OS X, not the hardware. The hardware is nice, but not the important part.

If I could buy OS X and load it on a nice VAIO laptop or Falcon Northwest desktop, I would.

A non-story.? Then why run it. Slow day eh?

Nov 19, 07 - 10:28 pm Comment from: shen

"The market is voting with its wallet, and its wallet is opening up to Apple."

watching the current market share growth, and especially the growth in schools (it seems like 50% of college students have Macs now) it is a good bet to say that any company that chooses to support Macs by way of windows in boot camp is going to watch a lot of money turn around and leave over the next few years....

"To save the Macintosh, which is OS X, I think Apple needs to seriously look at putting OS X out on other hardware. I buy Macs because of OS X, not the hardware. The hardware is nice, but not the important part.

If I could buy OS X and load it on a nice VAIO laptop or Falcon Northwest desktop, I would."

yes, i dare say you would. and if you could, Apple would either have to have 50% plus of the market AND over charge out the nose for their software, just like MS, or Apple would go under. when Apple asks for $350 for every minor upgrade (like MS does) and starts putting anti piracy measures on all their software, and iLife suddenly costs $250 plus, will you still want o buy it and install it on crap hardware? i wonder...

you say you buy Macs for OS X rather than the hardware. you think Apple is unaware of this? why do you think they make their own OS rather than just selling boxes like another Dell?

Nov 20, 07 - 12:46 am Comment from: Wandering joe

"Wandering joe: But isn't that marely gas?"
Yes, Yes, don't be a nag, I'll rectify it!

People use windows because At work people just want to launch the files they need, and do what the job requires them to do. They want to learn how to get it done, and don't like, or want change. Then they go home and want to do the same thing. And the kid wants a PC because all the games. Add in $899. and you have a sale. Pay the bills, a little E-mail play games. If you need you do a spreadsheet at home just like work. That's about 80% of your computer users.

How does Apple overcome that? Do they need to? I mean for some Imovie, I photo, is cool but is it compelling enough to switch? for some sure. for most. Nah.

But lets ask the real question does Apple even want to cater to these market? do we really want Apple to be bigger than windows? What's wrong with say 20% of the world computer market? Enough to be stable, but not the target of all hackers and virus/worm writers or what ever those idiots are...

I just wish Netflix would let me watch movies on demand on my Mac.

"The industry is so dependent on Windows that once an attorney or paralegal slips into Bootcamp or Parallels, it's hard to get them back out."

Why, because shock, horror, they're not making home movies so Windows does the job better for them.

Apple's been migrating it's user base towards Windows for some time now. It started with the Macs becoming industry standard Windows hardware and running Windows. It'll end with Mac OS XI being Vista. This has been Steve's plan all along. He just knows he needs to bring the faithful along slowly. But he does know that just as the faithful switched overnight to praising Intel processors, they will switch overnight to praising Vista when he officially blesses it.

Nov 20, 07 - 06:20 am Comment from: Ampar

"I just wish Netflix would let me watch movies on demand on my Mac."

That would be nice but I'd also like more content and rentals on the iTunes Store.

Nov 20, 07 - 06:41 am Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

Migration, what are you smoking?

Nov 20, 07 - 06:47 am Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

Spark, you make a great point about backward compatibility with older versions of OS X as a drag on making new applications which take advantage of Leopard's new features.

I felt bad enough loading Office for Mac. There's no way I'll be loading windows on my mac. The only grab is for games and I'd rather buy a games console than rape a mac with windows.

If Migration's delusion actually came true, I would try very hard to reduce my computer usage, and I certainly would not keep anything of a personal/financial/private nature on any box running Doze.

I'd find some other option-Linux(?) or something. I'll admit I'm not very good with Linux, but I'd be good enough to get by, but under NO circumstances would I ever use a box with Doze plumbing. No joke, and all bad feelings for M$ aside, Doze's lack of security scares me.

I wouldn't worry about that.

Nov 20, 07 - 09:56 am Comment from: Beeblebrox

Why the snarky comments iDont and El Guapo? If you don't want to read about how Information Week is trumpeting this issue as a problem for Apple when it is nothing new, then skip the story.

Thanks.