MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Nov 26, 08 - 05:31 pm Comment from: Macintosher

Cool! But I have the wrong Mac, and anyway, I can't possibly afford one.

Nov 26, 08 - 05:34 pm Comment from: binarypackrat

Fan Boy Toy... I 'm guilty

Nov 26, 08 - 05:53 pm Comment from: pxlmixer

I just got a new batch of LSD in about an hour ago.

So far the colors seem pretty darn good - I suspect there will be a shift in perception, some time soon... including special audio visual effects.

I would like a Macbook plus a PS3 for gaming and blu-ray.
Then the ideal third device would be a big display but, since I would not be able to connect an HDMI source to a displayPort screen, I guess I'll have to pass.

those audio features are why apple products rock. they get the details right the first time.

booooo... another nail in the coffin of firewire, one of the great things of Apple, biting the dust. Why? To save another $3 per unit? Makes it just another PC display now. Oh Steve, you need to get out of your bubble more...

Nov 26, 08 - 07:45 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Glossy = NO SALE.

I got a 26" ViewSonic VP2650wb for $565 on Amazon.

It's got much better specs than the new Apple monitor (3ms refresh vs. Apple's 14ms!?!?!). It pivots (big deal). Matte screen.

Sure, Apple puts in some great features, but I'm buying a DISPLAY. The other stuff is fluff.

Looks like your ViewSonic VP2650wb is a TN panel, what is the new Apple panel?

FROM ANOTHER FORUM: Depending how critical you are with regards to color accuracy, image quality, etc. TN panels will never approach the quality of good MVA or PVA panel because of the fundamental limitations of the technology.

Most people simply buy monitors using TN panels because they are cheaper than higher end panels.

$600 is basically the starting point for MVA/PVA monitors (unless there's a sale or rebate).

FYI: http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

Nov 26, 08 - 09:34 pm Comment from: The Other Steve

Does anyone make a card with Apple's new mini-DisplayPort connector that I can put in my G5 Tower?

Can someone explain why they made the MagSafe adapter come out at 90 deg., rather than just make it come straight out like the rest of the cables.

To me it just looks awkward and it sticks out the back where it will just get in the way.

Just my .02.

Nov 26, 08 - 10:42 pm Comment from: qka

From the article referenced by Sublime:

S-IPS/H-IPS panels are generally considered the best all around panel type, but they are more expensive and very few are made. High end, expensive.

S-PVA/MVA panels offer better color reproduction and viewing angles than TN panels, have slightly worse response times than TN or S-IPS, offer the best contrast ratios, may suffer from color shifting or input lag and have higher availability than S-IPS panels. Mid range, fair price.

TN panels are very cheap and have the fastest response times, but suffer from inferior color reproduction, contrast ratios and viewing angles. Low end, inexpensive.


Mr. Reeee:
Congratulations on your fast, cheap monitor with inferior color reproduction, contrast ratios and viewing angles.

As my daddy always says, "You gets whats you pays for".

Nov 27, 08 - 12:16 am Comment from: iDon't

I want one!!! Multiple same sex partners are you reading this?

Great you get really accurate Color that shifts depending on the colors that are being reflected in that shiny glass.

Nov 27, 08 - 09:07 am Comment from: DanielM

@The Other Steve

The first display made precisely for a MacBook http://www.apple.com/displays/

I don't think that it can be any clearer. However, on the Technical Specifications page for the LED Cinema Display, it states even more clearly:

<strong> Compatibility

Compatible with MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro systems with Mini Display<strong>

Glossy = NO SALE

Nov 27, 08 - 10:04 am Comment from: DanielM

@ Twenty Benson

Don't sell glossy screens short

Angle of the monitor aside, as long as the amount of light on the object in front of the screen is less than the amount of light being emitted, the degree of reflection is less or none at all.

Stand in front of a window at night and the greater the light in the room, the greater the mirroring (refelction). Stand in the same place during the day, and there is virtually no reflection as the day gets brighter.

Besides glossy monitors displaying more vivid colors, take a glossy screen laptop outside and you will be able to do things that a matte screen can't because it diffuses both incoming and outgoing light and as a result you can't see anything.

Here is a simple rule to take advantage of 'glossy' screens.

Simply adjust the lighting so that the light is stronger behind or from the screen than the objects in front of it.

Does anyone make a card with Apple's new mini-DisplayPort connector that I can put in my G5 Tower?

They should. Considering mini-DisplayPort isn't even an option for the Mac Pro.

Nov 27, 08 - 12:13 pm Comment from: Randian

You guys and your glossy-screen fetishes are pathetic, truly truly pathetic. Your philosophical grotesquery is to be pitied, your arguments universally abjured by one and all.

Take your lamentations elsewhere, idolize those who will bend slavishly to your will, and do not darken these portals again.

BE GONE!

Nov 27, 08 - 12:51 pm Comment from: Macfabulous

Yes! it´s Glossy = I´LL BUY!

Love my new glossy MacBook Pro! Really do!

...and I´m definitely not being ironic!

You guys whining about the Glossy screens... STOP! or go the Microsoft way and enjoy Vista...

Glossy fanboys!
Check out the MacBook Pro screen in this video...

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18974/

... and shut up!

Actually, I really ended up liking the glossy screen on my MBP and the glossy screen on the cinema display was a factor in my buying it over the Dell. If you're spending $550 on the Dell, why not spend the extra $250 for a nicer design, better integration with the computer I actually use, and the spare AC adapter which is a nice benefit.

Nov 27, 08 - 03:40 pm Comment from: Macfabulous

@Mr. Matte

The only thing that made me uncomftable in that video was seing windoes on a Mac. Besides cameraes pick up clares much easier than the naked eye. I really don´t have that kind of clare on my Glossy screen, and can easily get around the minor problem if it appears. Read below...

Facts:

Actually the glossy screen gives you a more crisp and clearer experience when working with Photos or Video in either Photoshop or Final Cut Pro. This is actually true regarding any Photo/Video app. It makes it easier to se contrast and make precise and detailed work. If you where a pro I would have great difficulties understanding your complaint! Maybe you are not and have just followed the Glossy screen bashing-trend?

I consider my self a pro and have spend many many hours using PS + FCP with both Matte and Glossy screens. My conclusion is,- There is nothing beating the Glossy screen (And I´m always right)! When I use my Glossy screen iMac and Glossy screen MacBook Pro in an invironment where light sources are an issue I just tilt or move the screen a little. Its no hassle, and its almost never a problem EVEN to start with!

Also it would be almost impossible to turn a Matte screen in to a functional Glossy screen. Its all in the glass you know. On the other hand it only takes a Non-glare film to change it the other way around. Apple has made the right choice and they know it!

By the way... Apple is still the darling in the creative business and vice versa, and they most certaintly want to stay in that market!

If you can´t live with a Glossy screen go the Microsoft way... I couldn´t care less! But don´t use stupid polls that prove exactly nothing to prove your own point of view. From what I have read you don´t have much point at all. We all have different preferences and it´s your prerogative and choice to not accept Apple´s decision.

Enjoy Vista...

Nov 27, 08 - 03:43 pm Comment from: Macfabulous

@Mr. Matte

...and please

SHUT UP YOUR YOURSELF!

Nov 27, 08 - 03:54 pm Comment from: Macfabulous

@Mr. Matte

Ups!

I admit I made a copy/paste of a former post of mine. The essence of the post concerns your post directly though. My point is still the same and therefore my copy/paste. Now!, please don´t take notice of the last 4 lines in my post. they are not targeted at you! That was someone else in another tread. Sorrry about that!

Really would hope that MDN would make it possible to edit your post!!!

No matte = NO SALE!!

I'm not trolling either. I have not bought, nor will I ever buy a glossy screen computer or monitor.

In fact, my next computer may well be a PC, the first in my life all others being Mac's.

Vista is much more secure than XP, I've got a copy of Norton Ghost and WinClone and a spare hard drive. So no matter what happens, I can reverse clone and be back where I started/malware free.

Thanks to Apple going to Intel and products like Fusion and Apple's own "Bootcamp", I've cross-trained on both XP and Vista and quite comfortable using either.

Apple's computer days are in the decline, thus the reason they dropped "Computer" from "Apple Computer"

They know it and we all know it, it's just a process of accepting the enevitable.

You should too. Get over the fanboism, (I was a severe fanboi!) and accept your destiny.

You'll be using Vista at work regardless, so don't bother complicating your life with a CULT PRODUCT any longer.

"CHANGE" is here

Nov 27, 08 - 04:24 pm Comment from: DanielM

@ Mr Matte re

Check out the MacBook Pro screen in this video...http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18974/

As the video proves, the brighter the object in front of the display, or the darker the screen relative to the object in front of it, the greater the reflection.

Notice the difference in reflection when the strobe light is aimed at the screen vs. when it is turned off.

Again, glass will only reflect light when the light in front of it is brighter than behind it. Simple grade 10 physics.

Try to look out a window at night from a lighted room and then turn the lights off. Lights on = reflection and its hard to see out. Lights off = no reflection. And as anyone that has seen enough movies, it is harder to see in.

Here is a recent poll about glossy displays

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=2417


Notice in the picture there is parts of the desktop that can't be seen because of the reflections. This discourages using the computer just like Windows insecurities and headaches discourages people from using computers.

Apple has made a big error.

Nov 27, 08 - 06:46 pm Comment from: Macfabulous

@MacGenius

Dear MacGenius. Why not stop this ridicules crusade of yours, and go on with your PC and Wista adventure!

Let me repeat my self. The Glossy screen is a good choice! Because a minority group is whining and floding the polls, i´ts not going to make a matte screen a better choice. Apple would lose money if they were to please you!... The minority!

Ok. Here are the facts again:

Glossy displays create more saturated colours, deeper blacks, brighter whites, and are sharper than traditional matte displays.This makes these types of displays more appropriate for viewing photos, watching movies, or even just general computer usage such as web browsing. Also, in extremely bright conditions where no direct light is facing the screen, such as outdoors, glossy displays can become more readable than matte displays because they don't disperse the light around the screen (which would render a matte screen washed out).

Finally. It would be almost impossible to turn a Matte screen in to a functional Glossy screen. Its all in the glass! On the other hand it only takes a Non-glare film to change it the other way around.

Apple has made the right choice and they know it!

Enjoy the Wista ride...

Nov 27, 08 - 08:12 pm Comment from: DanielM

@ Macfabulous

Totally agree.

However, let's forget guys like MacGenius. He never has a nice word to say about Apple anyway.

We are only feeding his immature ego. Let him wallow in his rhetoric.

macgenius is absolutely right. glossy is for kids, or girls. not for real men. glossy is today's bondi blue. here today, gone (hopefully) tomorrow. so to all you glossy shinywhinyboys, kma!

Sorry about the "shut up" tone. I just get so upset when I hear ignorant comments like, "just go buy a Windows machine".

As an Apple shareholder, I want to see as many people stay with Apple as possible. It's better for the stock = better for Apple = better for all of us. Telling people that have a (recently robbed) different preference to go away, is just short-sighted and self-centered.
Comments like @MacGenius (above) "In fact, my next computer may well be a PC, the first in my life all others being Mac's."...is a perfect example of what Apple doesn't need.

In past posts I've never advocated one screen instead of the other. I'm glad the glossy people have a choice. I'm just saying the matte people should regain a choice also.

The reality is that no matter how high you turn the brightness, there can still be problems on a glossy screen.

I don't just consider myself a professional... I HAVE been a professional photographer for almost 40 years. And it just gets downright embarrassing (on a glossy screen) when I am trying to show a photo's shadow detail in a client's office... where the overpowering room lights can't be changed.

There whole problem started with Apple trying to save a few bucks in reduced screen inventory (savings they haven't passed along)... and J.Ive's desire for another design award.

I just hope His Steveness eventually remembers to put customers before style. (Still love `ya, Steve!)

DANG! I just violated the "There / Their / They're" rule.
(not unlike the "Your / You're" rule)
It should have been "The whole problem", anyway

Nov 28, 08 - 06:00 am Comment from: Macdoc

Why did Apple drop the 23" display from the on-line Apple Store when the 24" LCD display came out, and it's only for the new Mac Books/Pros/Airs? Called Apple Sales and they didn't even know Why??? Apple is doing very strange things these days.

I want my FireWire!! On everything!

Nov 28, 08 - 07:04 am Comment from: DanielM

@ Mr Matte

I too have been a professional photographer. Did my first wedding 41 years ago and still remember the sweat developing the first roll of film in my darkroom.

Had the option of gloss or matte prints. Did both. I personally liked the matte because it seemed to look more professional and nobody else was really into it. However, the happy couple preferred the matte because it made the bride stand out more. They were right.

So forty years later, to suggest that a pro photographer would be so ignorant about lighting to be embarrassed "trying to show a photo's shadow detail in a client's office" on a glossy monitor is a little bewildering.

Your response suggests that you have a laptop with a glossy screen. It certainly is not the new MacBooks, which means that you did have a choice before. Am I wrong.

As for those who like their glossy screen, yes they have a choice, they can add a matte overlay. While those who bought mattes can't reverse the process. And as for room lighting where you can't adjust the lighting, you can adjust the screen. And if you where a true pro, you should know how to do that, just like we all had to do when we show off our photo albums.

It is also interesting that while you say you never advocated one screen over another, while you like so many posters here do, continually end your arguments dising Apple, Jobs, Macs, etc.

To suggest that this new initiative is to save money on inventory is ludicrous. With Apples continuing success, your comment bounds on being offensive. I'll bet you haven't seen the LED as most here haven't.

Interesting that the pundits from ARS, Macworld, Apple Insider, TUAW, etc., which have professionally reviewed the latest offerings, aren't particularly upset about the glossy screen. All those that have actually bought one of them are extremely supportive. Whiles all those who dis them, have complained just about everything that Apple does. And more often than not, site unseen.

Bottom line, you may say you still love Apple, but you don't stop going home on the weekend because your mom never hasy ice cream to go with YOUR favorite desert. You bring your own, and like it.

Nov 28, 08 - 07:11 am Comment from: DanielM

@ Macdoc re "Why did Apple drop the 23" display from the on-line Apple Store when the 24" LCD display came out, and it's only for the new Mac Books/Pros/Airs?"

Guess!

But just in case you aren't that perceptive, wouldn't you think that Apple will be introducing a new LED to replace it. Imagine what would happen if Apple where to continue to sell the old 23 and then launch a new 'Pro' LED model at MacWorld conference in January.

Nov 28, 08 - 07:14 am Comment from: DanielM

ERRATUM

My previous posting should have said that "…the happy couple preferred the gloss,…"

Simply adjust the lighting so that the light is stronger behind or from the screen than the objects in front of it.

Great idea!

I'll tell management to invest in re-arranging the ceiling lighting in their rented office space, so our glossy screens don't glare so bad.

Either I'll get ignored or "reassigned". What's more likely?

If only Apple would get it....

I have a glossy and matt iMac. The glossy can be seen across the room, and at more viewing angles. I get twice the use of my new iMac.

I was trying to show some friends a couple of movie trailers on their MBP with matt and only two people could see it siting next to each other. If you want more clients to see your presentation glossy is better, hands down.

The new displays are not like the old glossy CRT's of the 90's, come into this century. Yes you will have to adjust, however glossy is the future for good reasons.

As for this article, the new display is really an updated of the old dock concept. This one can be use with different laptops, the main problem with the old docks. Again welcome to the future. It is brighter.

Nathan: Can someone explain why they made the MagSafe adapter come out at 90 deg., rather than just make it come straight out like the rest of the cables.

To me it just looks awkward and it sticks out the back where it will just get in the way.

It's the only way it'll fit to the MacBook Air where the MagSafe port faces downwards at an angle. So "universal" MagSafe plugs will always have to be this way or they would only fit to the bigger MacBooks.

@DanielM
In trying to keep postings short, I have left out detail that has caused you to make wrong assumptions.

I only own matte, 15" MacBook Pros. My daughter owns a MacBook glossy (So I do have experience with glossy screens).
I just got one of the last LED lit, matte, MBPs... and it is much brighter than my older fluorescent. So, those comparing the brighter glossies with an older matte will see a major difference.

In the embarrassing office situation, the client insisted on using their 17", glossy Dell laptop to view files. Two of the walls in the corner office were glass to the outside, a third wall was glass to a hallway. Brightness was all the way up on the Dell, and half the screen was glare. There was nowhere else to move to.

As far as dising Apple... I consider it more a chiding. An encouragement to not disenfranchise users/buyers. The inventory thing was speculation. I'd hate to think that Ive was the only reason for the decision.

As for being offended... anytime we can't be critical of a company,an organization, or a government... it means we've been have a little too much of their kool-aid.

I like glossy photo prints for their characteristics (as well as matte). There is a place for both.
... and that's been my point all along... there is a place for both screens (that some fuzzy, stick on plastic sheet won't fulfill.)

Nov 28, 08 - 10:06 am Comment from: DanielM

@ Mr. Matte

What "last LED lit, matte, MBP?" Apple never made one.

And why would it be embarrassing for you if it is their laptop?

As for the office, go to the darkest part of the office and place the laptop so that the back of it is facing the brightest window. Have the viewer sit at eye level to the screen and tilt the screen accordingly.

Of course this is a Dell and it isn't a backlit LED LCD, so you can't adjust the LED output.

As for being critical, there is the McCain or the Obama approach. Notice who won the election.

As well, "there is a place for both screens (that some fuzzy, stick on plastic sheet won't fulfill.)" For one thing the film is no more 'fuzzy' as you say than an matte screen. Secondly, it isn't sticky; It is not MacTac.

Finally, being a professional photographer as you contend, light setting and lens filtering shouldn't be problem.

By the way, you do have a choice. There are other players in the game. Well, not exactly, Only Apple has introduced a backlit LED LCD monitor and by all accounts, and it looks like it will be the least expensive for awhile.

DanielM: What "last LED lit, matte, MBP?" Apple never made one.

The 17" model had and at this point still has an option for a matte HD panel.

Especially when doing a demonstration for a few people (for which the MBP 17" is excellent), the matte display is more convenient than a glossy one because people looking at an angle will quite likely see substantial glare while the user straight in front might be able to avoid it for himself. I'm quite happy with my matte one for this reason among others.

That said, the shrieking fanaticism for matte screens exhibited by some people around here does not change the fact that we are a relatively small (if sometimes shrill) minority among all buyers. Apple saw that from the MBP matte/glossy numbers and canceled the matte option. Tough for us, but that's just the way it is.

We are no "large majority" except in selected online polls where the majority just doesn't see a point in voting. Apple has the actual numbers from years of selling both variants side by side. If most people had actually chosen matte, the option would still be there.

Most people simply didn't, and so here we are.

Addendum:

The 17" model had and at this point still has an option for a matte LED-lit HD panel.

Glossy is for pussies.

@DanielM

Wow! I didn't know I was conversing with an "expert"!
I won't continue with this thread, now that I see all my facts and experiences are going to be wrong.

I get the impression that you voted for Barry in the past election, so I know where your head is at. (BTW - Notice that "change" is bringing us retreads from the Clinton Administration?)

The last fact I'll confuse you with is that Apple did in fact introduce LED backlighting in MacBook Pros this past June.

Google it, dude! (if that's part of your wealth of expertise)

Nov 28, 08 - 02:39 pm Comment from: Macdoc

@DanielM

I Know Apple will probably come out will new monitors in Jan. It's Nov. NOT Jan. and I need to buy 20-23" monitors now!
So I'm surfing around the net buying monitors from MacMall and others to buy up the last of the 23" available. Must have something to do with supply of 23" panels vs ordering 24" in time for their release. But it puts a 2 month plus hole in their top selling display. And BTW Apple always stops selling there old Display, Macs,iPods when a updated model is release. They don't keep sell the old ones too, just in case you aren't that perceptive to know that.

I want my Firewire!!! In everything!!!

And now, a word from our glossy-screen enthusiast:

"Whaa, glossy screen! Whaa, boo hoo glare! I won't buy it. Whaa whaa whaa!".

We now return you to our regularly scheduled program.

funny how in the days of CRTs before and LCD flatscreens... you never heard people complaining about how "glossy" their glass picture tube was.

In the 70s and 80s, I never heard people say.. I will never buy a TV until they stop using glass for tv screens.

If you have a glare issue... you need to either change your lighting set up or reposition your monitor... this is true for both glossy and matte.

THIS IS SUCH A OVERBLOWN DISCUSSION POINT

numan: funny how in the days of CRTs before and LCD flatscreens... you never heard people complaining about how "glossy" their glass picture tube was.

Wrong. Anti-glare coating was an important item with computer CRTs as well.