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"The touch screen of death"

Uhm, patents?

I get the anti-microsoft stuff but if you checked out the BBC journos and what they say, they do give kudos to Apple where it's due.

If anyone is at fault it is Apple for letting Microsoft gets its products into big corporations through advantageous licensing deals.

Multitouch on a screen will be cool and is coming to Macs and PCs.

Mar 26, 09 - 08:30 am Comment from: Boyarsky

You know, this just shows the lack of balanced emphasis in our school. We have been emphasizing math and science while sacrificing history.

If MS had paid attention in their history classes they would have learned how to research history.

Touch screen history in this case was written in the 80's and is called "Gorilla Arm"
http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html

Just a frustrated History teacher in North Pole

Mar 26, 09 - 08:30 am Comment from: breeze

Anyone see the Movie "Brazil"??

There's the BBC's ....

That video was hilarious! Microsoft's version of Multi-touch isn't even a 'wanna-be'. Holy crap, the tubes in that computer must be screaming...

Funny, I just read this and thought I'd send the link to MDN, but it's already on here...

I was watching this in the office, then said to my friend sitting next to me "Macs have had Multi-touch for ages", and then 'pinched' the trackpad on my 17" MacBook Pro to show how my iPhone does it... bloody hell it only works on my laptop as well!!!! As I pinched on the trackpad, Safari went tiny, so I reverse-pinched and it went back to normal!

So yeh, you're 100% right MDN, OS X has had multi-touch for ages.

The BBC (Darren Waters and Rory Cellan-Jones especially), are paid-up shills for M$. It's quite sad to think they consider rehashing a press release counts as reporting.

Mar 26, 09 - 08:43 am Comment from: Me on this iSland

LOL!
The article states:
"Microsoft user interface evangelist Chris Bernard told BBC News: "Windows 7 will help take touch into the mainstream."
I'm sorry, Chris, I wouldn't shout about that one.

Also:
"Microsoft says Windows Touch will be much more than just a "touch shell" for Windows.
"We made sure you are getting the full Windows 7 experience," the blog post said.

Yes, the full Windows UI experience, such as press harder, hit, punch, slap, throw, drive over, drop off a bridge....

Mar 26, 09 - 08:46 am Comment from: flappo

the bbc are an utter joke and a waste of taxpayers money

the sonoer theyre disbanded the better

if i have to watch last of the summer whine one more time i think ill vomit blood

Mar 26, 09 - 08:46 am Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

A few random thoughts:

1) Nice to know that prostitution is flourishing in England in the form of the BBC.

2) If Microsoft told the reporter they were building a rocket ship to take Windows users to Uranus, the reporter would gush over the the opportunity to go to Uranus.

3) Here is all you need to know about the usefulness of touchscreen computers: sit in front of your computer, reach across your desk, touch the screen. Do this for more than 5 seconds and you will understand why touchscreen computers are useless except for kiosks.

4) BBC = Bogus bullshit company

Mar 26, 09 - 08:51 am Comment from: HMCIV

To interact with my PC's multitouch LCD screen, I usually smash my face into the screen and stick my tongue out. It takes some getting used to but it keeps me from getting Gorilla Arm.

Wait... maybe I don't have a touch screen.

If you didn't watch the last video above, go back and watch it. Hysterical!

what's this the 8th version of windows 7? what a bunch of fools for buying into that

Mar 26, 09 - 09:03 am Comment from: Predrag

MDN has been consistently delivering Apple-related news aggregation for years. In addition to the news stories, "SteveJack" has been peppering them with his own Apple-coloured spin. This spin is one of the primary reasons people actually come to this site (there are many other Mac news aggregators out there, without the comment).

For all those of you who don't like the commentary, you may look into a commentary-free site; luckily, there are tons of them out there.

Darren Waters at the BBC is just a complete idiot.

Mar 26, 09 - 09:19 am Comment from: Jeff McC

This isnt the first time for Microsoft, they were touting Tablet PCs with touchscreens would largely replace Laptops in 2002. They didnt exactly take off! I go mad if someone's greasy finger comes within an inch of my MacBook screen! Unless they can develop a magic screen which absorbs/evaporates grease and dirt then this is another fail for Windows! Maybe we should all invest in shares of Mr. Sheen

Mar 26, 09 - 09:22 am Comment from: Jammach

I've also just complained to the BBC, this is not why I pay my license fee. They have spun this as if Multi-touch is a unique feature coming to windows, engendering an expectation and appetite in the readership that will presumably have a positive inpact on Microsoft's sales. They fail to mention that a reader wanting multi-touch features can get it NOW by buying a Mac laptop.
It's factually incorrect reporting and bias that will directly help one company, when the BBC is supposed to hold itself to high standards of non-promotion and independence. I cannot see how this sits with the BBC's own charter of conduct.
If you live in the UK and feel as angry about this as I do, I urge you to complain.

Mar 26, 09 - 09:32 am Comment from: Ampar

"2) If Microsoft told the reporter they were building a rocket ship to take Windows users to Uranus, the reporter would gush over the the opportunity to go to Uranus."


To probe for Klingons?

Mar 26, 09 - 09:38 am Comment from: Ampar

"Anyone see the Movie 'Brazil'?? There's the BBC's ...."

Sam Lowry: My name's Lowry. Sam Lowry. I've been told to report to Mr. Warren.
Porter - Information Retrieval: Thirtieth floor, sir. You're expected.
Sam Lowry: Um... don't you want to search me?
Porter - Information Retrieval: No sir.
Sam Lowry: Do you want to see my ID?
Porter - Information Retrieval: No need, sir.
Sam Lowry: But I could be anybody.
Porter - Information Retrieval: No you couldn't sir. This is Information Retrieval.

Mar 26, 09 - 09:57 am Comment from: Jammach

I've just received an email reply (within 10 minutes) from Darren Waters who wrote the original article. He states that the touch system forthcoming in Windows 7 is different from Apple's Multi Touch as it' integrated into the display, whereas only Apple's iPod Touch and iPhone use touch in this manner. In their portables, it's integrated into the trackpad and no machines have touch enabled displays. He has a perfectly valid and correct point.

Darren has already amended his BBC article to mention that Apple's laptops have a form of multi-touch, available now, as integrated into the glass trackpad.

I'm both amazed and surprised that this amendment has been done in response to a reader complaint, I may still have objections about the article, but I feel it's now fairer and less directly biased towards Microsoft. Thank you Darren Waters.

Mar 26, 09 - 09:58 am Comment from: Cascadians

A job for the iProd!

Mar 26, 09 - 10:01 am Comment from: Cascadians

Or the upcoming iTouchPad, aka iTP.

Mar 26, 09 - 10:01 am Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

A touch screen in our kitchen had better be dishwasher safe.

My wife's a great cook, but she could get flour on the ceiling just by boiling water. Maybe if it had a built in washer/wiper?

Dear Mac Daily News,

We can see nothing wrong with the article you are complaining about, and we're perfectly satisfied that our friends in Redmond will be delighted we've published it.

B.B.C.

Mar 26, 09 - 10:19 am Comment from: Predrag

It is possible that Mr. Waters was inundated with the complaints, he decided to make them go away and amend the article.

I wouldn't dismiss touchscreen Macs. Nobody seems to be complaining about greasy fingers on the iPhone/iPod, so there should be no real reason why this should be more of a problem with a 12-15" display.

As I had stated numerous times before, touch-screen Macs CAN be done right. Microsoft (and their OEM partners) are doing this all wrong. An upright multi-touch display is exactly as stupid as MDN's takes make it out to be. However, horisontally placed multi-touch display surface makes working with the device more intuitive than any other computing device anyone has ever used until the iPhone.

Ever since the dawn of humanity, we have always worked/interacted with objects of our work directly. Cutting, grinding, pounding, slicing, reading, writing, drawing, it was all direct interaction. Then, some 40 years ago, someone invented this user interface that presented our work on a vertical display, about 0.5 metres away from our face, but in order to interact with it, we had to use a seemingly unrelated device with multitude of identical buttons with different labels on them. As we press various buttons, the image on the display would change. Imagine reading a magazine that's lying on your desk. You want to flip a page, you push a button on the front drawer. Even though this keyboard-and-display concept was counter-intuitive, generations of people were successfully trained to accept it and use it.

Having a computer display directly respond to your input by touching it would make the work completely intuitive again. Just like two-year olds don't need to be told how to use the iPhone (they can immediately figure out everything), we will no longer need to instruct people how to navigate with a mouse, what's a double-click, where to single- or double-click, etc.

I have no doubt, if SJ continues to be a creative force behind Apple's products for a few more years, we'll see Mac line transition over to keyboardless, mouseless flat devices, revolutionising computing once again.

MDN: I thought you knew, BBC is a high-end MS brownoser

I literally burst out laughing watching Rob in the video having to try several times to get a window to zoom in....yeah that's about right for MS "innovation". Can you imagine having to do touch moves like that again and again all day long trying to get your computer to do what you want it to do? I can see that being a real productivity enhancer in the workplace.

Mar 26, 09 - 10:33 am Comment from: Ampar

"MDN: I thought you knew, BBC is a high-end MS brownoser"

Hence the term, asshat?

Will it come with Clorox screen wipes?

@predrag

The difference is that with my iPhone I can just rub it a few times across my jeans or shirt and have it be a lot less mucky. doing that with a 10" screen, let along a 17" screen will be a bit trickier.

You must have a high tolerance for blurred vision. In my house, if one of the kids gets his finger within an inch of my screen its grounds for severe punishment.

I've been saying for months and I will repeat it again. I just can't figure out why I would want to spend so much time turning my photos at weird angles. (like the Enderle comedy video) What's even funnier that I hadn't seen before is the video above that with the actual MS guy doing the touch demo. In that one he rotates his fingers across the screen and the picture flips 90 in a jerky fashion. Its a terrible demo. Idiots

Mar 26, 09 - 10:48 am Comment from: Mac Daddy

Apple doesn't "also offer multi-touch," Apple friggin' *owns* Multi-Touch. It is a registered trademark of Apple. I'm sick of these asshats saying that Windows will have "multi-touch."

Aside from that, Windows 7 will be just another POS from MS.

Microsoft's NEXT BIG THING:

MultiFinder! (And the world applauds.)

Magic Word: remember

Mar 26, 09 - 10:55 am Comment from: Toasty

All I know is that MDN goes crazy pointing out that Multi-Touch on a computer screen is stupid and makes no sense. This is because they seem to think that the physical form factor for monitors and laptops will stay constant. Hence the constant comments about "Gorilla Arm." While this is in fact not ergonomic in any sense at this point, as manufacturers take advantage of the technology the shape and position of input screens will change. MDN knows this. But because Microsoft has yet to address it, they use it as a prodding point. Apple will also move Multi-Touch to the screen at some point. And no doubt it will be met with applause by MDN because its Apple doing it in what they will consider the "right way." It can be said that Microsoft is most likely jumping the gun on the implementation which will only serve to frustrate users because of how often they poorly implement things. None the less, it is the natural progression of human/machine interaction.

And I honestly don't get the Windex comments either. Do you windex your iPhone MDN? That was just dumb.

To be clear, I am not a Microsoft person. I can't stand them and love all 5 of my Macs. But this article, while meaning to be an attack on Microsoft, comes across more like the MDN writer simply doesn't understand the forward trend of Multi-Touch as it relates to input devices at all.

Talking about being out of touch with reality. The BBC really need to do there research before writing such B.S.!

Mar 26, 09 - 11:02 am Comment from: hagar57

@84 Mac Guy
"2) If Microsoft told the reporter they were building a rocket ship to take Windows users to Uranus, the reporter would gush over the the opportunity to go to Uranus."
Nope. The reporter would correctly state, "But I am already up Uranus!"

Mar 26, 09 - 11:10 am Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Why all the belligerent controversy? There will be applications where 'touch' will be logical and useful, and others where it would be unnecessary and unwanted. The market will sort it all out. Besides, it will give you guys more things to ridicule.

Mar 26, 09 - 11:17 am Comment from: Fred Mertz

Toasty,

What part of "Multi-Touch™ on the screen only when trackpads are not part of the device" did you not understand?

Mar 26, 09 - 11:18 am Comment from: Jubei

On a table, Kiosk or wall panel it works, but only for information feed type of application. Not everyday use. On a laptop or desktop screen at eye level, it is cumbersome and will fatigue the user quickly. Having to manipulate the screen with your arms raised at near eye level is not ergonomically correct. Second, the filth on the screen build up will drive just about anyone crazy. But hey, thats MS slap on the list of features and think about consequences later.

Apple has the right idea. A large multi-touch pad on laptops and perhaps soon on keyboards for desktops. You can kinda guess why Apple is removing the 10 key touch on one of its keyboards... I can see that area occupying a large multi-touch pad.

Mar 26, 09 - 11:42 am Comment from: Toasty

Fred Mertz,

"Does it make more sense to be smearing your fingers around on your notebook's screen or on a spacious trackpad that's designed specifically and solely to be touched?" - MDN Take

This statement supports my assertion of MDNs take.

Perhaps you should reread my post. I wasn't arguing one of favor of the other. That was MDN arguing that. I was simply pointing out MDN being short sited on the Multi-Touch progression. And I also stated that Microsoft is jumping the gun. Multi-Touch moving from the track pad to the screen when the form factors change is a natural progression as I stated.

Mar 26, 09 - 12:10 pm Comment from: Fred Mertz

Toasty,

Apply the inherent logic contained within the exact MDN statement to which I referred above ("Multi-Touch™ on the screen only when trackpads are not part of the device") in order to find the answer to the question, "Does it make more sense to be smearing your fingers around on your notebook's screen or on a spacious trackpad that's designed specifically and solely to be touched?"

Mar 26, 09 - 12:59 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Isn't obvious, Microsoft is going to leverage their market share to give their brand of touch a boost in the marketplace and become the de facto standard overnight?

They will once again, create a divergence and that's good for business and consumers.

As a hardware maker, Apple doesn't compete with Microsoft, it competes with itself. My next Apple product need only be better than the last one and as long as they offer a machine that is always beyond my budget, they can have my money.

Clearly, the Microsoft Way is a Catch-22 and no where is that more obvious than with the 64-bit debacle. Microsoft can't advance because they can't write software for hardware that doesn't exist and hardware can't advance because the can't make hardware for software that doesn't exist. Terrific business model, you stupid fucks.

Microsoft will eventually unveil a full-blown, virtualized state-of-the-art PC and only then will Microsoft begin to compete against Apple. Microsoft VPC will turn any computer, even a Macintosh, into a Microsoft computer, so these two juggernauts will continue to compete well into the future. But, one difference will be that, Microsoft can now start copying Apple's hardware too.

Even if Microsoft could build a dream machine from code, I would still prefer the Apple way, because Microsoft is evil.

Mar 26, 09 - 01:02 pm Comment from: Toasty

Once again Fred. I was not arguing the merits of one vs the other.

Mar 26, 09 - 01:45 pm Comment from: Si

So does this mean i have to give up greasy junk food for something cleaner? Windows7 could be the new Atkins.. Bonus!

Mar 26, 09 - 02:43 pm Comment from: JKPinPDX

Touch your screen right now.... {wobble-wobble} I can see this TOUCH STUFF quickly turning into a "Fad" if its not introduced properly on the right platform (smaller hand held devices) vs just trying to be FIRST! to mass market. Apple and Microsoft better get this right BEFORE they allow us to finger-fangle our screens!

I also what to say... whomever writes the rebuttals to these articles (mac daily news take:) I have to say... you are the best writers on any of the news blogs I have ever read! "Your take" on these articles are brilliant and spot on from a Mac Fanatics point of view!

BRAVO!

Mar 26, 09 - 04:29 pm Comment from: JohnEZ

Way to delete my comments, MDN. Love how you let ZuneTang stay when he shows up though.

Mar 26, 09 - 08:28 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@JohnEZ

you let ZuneTang stay

That's because we all suspect he's just a machead doing a terrible impersonation of a PC weenie, why do you think they're out to get you?

Mar 26, 09 - 11:13 pm Comment from: JohnEZ

Because I'm a Mac advocate who can be occasionally critical of the way in which MDN "takes" things. Unsurprisingly, my criticisms are occasionally swept under the rug.

Mar 27, 09 - 01:02 am Comment from: derekcurrie

I'm personally looking forward to seeing 'Windows Touch' in action. Considering the fact that Apple have patents on most of the intuitive multiple finger gestures used on Macs and the iPod Touch / iPhone, it could be quite hilarious to see what goofy gestures Microsoft has come up with to avoid a lawsuit. Most likely it will be the usual Microsoft five steps where one step would suffice. I can also see 'Windows Touch' users having to use two hands at the same time versus a couple fingers. I already bought a box of Depends for when I'm ROTFLMAOWMP at the 'Windows Touch' demonstration premier. "Oops! I wet 'em!"

;-D

Mar 27, 09 - 03:13 am Comment from: Macjammer

As one poster above mentioned Microsoft is just trying to stay in the game by implementing something Apple like. Microsoft always does.

History shows that with anything Apple-like in Windows it just doesn't work properly and as Rob Enderle (who really seriously should be fired or not get paid for his articles) shows, he couldn't get a window to resize without using two hands.

It is that ineptitude in Windows that keeps away the lawsuits over patent infringement.

This time around the only difference is that the general computer using public are more aware of how a computer should work through how well the iPhone works and then similarly with each Macintosh computer. Yes that 'halo' effect is real.

One the price point difference, I'd rather pay more for higher grade components than end up having to continually splash out on repairs and/or replacements over any given year. Apple hardware is and always has been server grade right across the range.

With touch-screen technology I have no doubt that Apple will offer the choice between using a keyboard or enabling via System Preferences the ability to utilize the screen in an iMac and any one of their range of monitors including the screens in their laptop range as the main user interface, UI. Press an icon in the dock and up pops a keyboard, perhaps?

Mar 27, 09 - 03:35 am Comment from: ukok

Jesus, what a stupid article. And I'm talking about the MDN one, not the BBC. Is this another SteveJack rant? Regardless of OS, comparing a trackpad with a screen is NOT comparing like for like. The article was clearly talking about touchSCREEN control. Yes, the article wasn't perfect, but the BBC amended the article to mention macs and are receptive to criticism (try getting that much from most of the other sites MDN slags off), and the journalist even took the time out to reply personally. So now, all we're left with is a massive overreaction from MDN that makes them look far more stupid than the BBC for it's minor factual discrepancies. Besides, touch screen controls clearly do work - that's why information booths, ticket machines etc. all over the world have them. And are your iPhones and trackpads smeared in food and grease? No? Then why would your screen be (other than because you're making a gross exaggeration to help justify a weak point)?

If MDN could stop coming over like an angry child throwing a tantrum, it'd be taken far more seriously and have far more respect. As it is at times you guys are barely better than Thurrott (and at least he gets paid for his shilling), and you make ALL of us mac owners/fans look like rabid idiots the windows shills would like to dismiss us as. Get some bloody perspective.