MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Feb 07, 08 - 01:30 pm Comment from: Reality Check

Selective quoting, as usual MDN. The Beeb justified the later release of the Mac version, saying:

"Were we to choose to not develop any systems or services until they could be received by every single individual licence-fee payer, our capacity for development and innovation - in the interest of serving those who fund our services - would be severely limited."

As usual, we need to try the objectivity test. Swap Apple for Microsoft and then ask yourself if Apple had 95% of the market and Microsoft a mere 5%, would MDN support the BBC for delaying release of iPlayer by nine months in order to ensure Windows users got the software at the same time as MacOS users?

No, I thought not.

Feb 07, 08 - 01:32 pm Comment from: Reality Check

My word! First post.

The BBC will launch a download version of its iPlayer online video service for Apple Mac users by the end of 2008

Jesus, a whole year to wait.

The suspense is killing me...really it is. NOT.

Why so long? Call Apple for christsakes, they will whip it out in a few months.

Making their own DRM? Spotted Dick DRM?

Feb 07, 08 - 01:34 pm Comment from: Ampar

"No, I thought not."

If you're going to answer your questions, why bother asking them?

Ampar,

because it was a rhetorical question, that's why.

@RealityCheck,

This has nothing to do with marketshare, but rather the validity of an operating systems. BBC chose to focus their development efforts solely based on marketshare, nothing else. There's plenty of cross-platform ventures out there. Nothing was stopping them from working on both Windows and Mac versions at the same time, definitely not funding.

coolfactor has a point: why not just flash based? Its not like I want to pay for BBC news, unlike those poor brits who are forced to...

Shame the BBC couldn't follow it's Australian cousin, the ABC and launch the Mac app at the same time as Windows.

http://www.abc.net.au/now/

Feb 07, 08 - 02:02 pm Comment from: Reality Check

>Nothing was stopping them from working on both Windows and Mac versions at the same time, definitely not funding.

Can you cite your source on this? Do you actually know anything about the BBC's internal funding priorities? Last I heard they were struggling to save money and cutting programmes left, right and centre to operate within their budget.

Feb 07, 08 - 02:06 pm Comment from: effwerd

'I hope this good news is evidence of the hard work that the BBC is committing to supporting other platforms,' he wrote," The Beeb reports.

It's evidence you're a bunch of lazy asses who are very reluctant to tread outside of your safe, cozy, and woefully incomplete skill set.

Feb 07, 08 - 02:09 pm Comment from: Reality Check

>Shame the BBC couldn't follow it's Australian cousin, the ABC and launch the Mac app at the same time as Windows.

In fairness, the Beeb has offered pretty much what ABC are offering, for years. It's offered podcasts of the majority of its radio content, plus streaming live radio on all its national and local channels for years. Same too for video news content.

By contrast, I note the ABC player doesn't offer streaming radio to Mac users.

Finally, the ABC player is really not the same. To quote ABC's own website,

"How does ABC Now compare with the BBC’s iPlayer?
ABC Now is designed to aggregate a selection of our most current radio, TV, news, sport and weather content from around the ABC website via a small desktop widget. It’s not intended to be an archive player allowing access to a wide range of past content but rather offer you quick and easy access to recent content (e.g. podcasts, video downloads, news and sport headlines, live radio streams, weather forecasts).

The BBC’s iPlayer is an application which purely focuses on allowing the UK audience to catch up on videos of TV segments they’ve missed from the last 7 days via a PC. Video segments can be watched via the BBC’s online player or downloaded to a user’s PC and stored for 30 days."

As a Brit and an ex-admirer of the BBC I've been shocked at this recent scandal. One of several which have shown that the BBC is throwing its admired values overboard.

Please, dear fellow posters, don't make the mistake of apologizing for the BBC.

The guy who's managing the iPlayer development and rollout is in fact an ex-Microsoft executive, Erik Huggers.

It's that bad. The BBC got into bed with Microsoft and are only getting out from under the soiled sheets because of the public reaction.

There have been protests in front of Broadcasting House in London. The demonstrators carried placards which read thus:

British
Broadcasting
Corrupted

Feb 07, 08 - 02:14 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

OMG!

@Reality Check

You are correct, however the Australian ABC's Now player still allows access to ABC made shows (such as Enough Rope) that were missed on ABC TV.

So basically the ABC's player also allows it's audience (worldwide, not just local) access to ABC made shows that we missed also.

Feb 07, 08 - 02:23 pm Comment from: Tommy Boy

I would almost think that tv would be a more important platform than the Mac proper.

"No, I thought not."

If you're going to answer your questions, why bother asking them?

Well no one else would be stupid enough to wish to answer it I suppose.

However on the more pertinent point one has to consider that this service will be at its most useful for mobile devices where of course it is Apple that has the overwhelming advantage so any such restriction would be equally stupid and short sighted as that original inane comment.

In addition it is fact that the BBC Charter insists that they do make their services equally available to all licence payers for which it is possible to do so. No one has denied it is possible to do so on this occasion. Equally as a non profit making organisation there is in fact no commercial dictat forcing it to launch a part service early, as there would be with a commercial station. If it fails to acknowledge this fact, inherent to the whole basis of its very existence, then there would be no point at all in it retaining its non commercial status.

Why such a long wait? There are loads of media players that support Windows, Linux and OS X. Surely it wouldn't be much hassle to just use one of them.

MW: taking .. as in they're taking the piss.

Who cares!!!

Feb 07, 08 - 02:45 pm Comment from: Ampar

Gavron:

And mine wasn't? Nor this one?

Wow does MDN make us Mac owners to be a bunch of snobs or what?

BBC should support open standards, regardless of platform. I wouldn't care if it was written in Java. It should be open so that in ten years from now no matter what has shifted in the OS market, at least the platform can continue.

Now I've become rather unimpressed with the BBC over the last five years, as they've gotten larger and larger. They sound more like Sony. One branch is creative and puts out great content, the other branch worries about DRM, protection, etc.

And a year to get out a silly player of the Mac??? Now that sounds like Microsoft.

Feb 07, 08 - 03:12 pm Comment from: Demon

Commercial P2P application like the BBC's iPlayer (kontiki P2P Server) is theft of User Bandwidth and Service plain and simple. Why any one would want to subject themselves to a P2P server that you can't turnoff and opens your system to connections to other unknown users is beyond me. Mac users in the UK should take notice that the Kontiki Server is not as secure as Verisign claims it it. The user also has no ability to limit it's operating hours, it's upload bandwidth usage, or even to exit the application when you need all of you computer resources. The EULA you agree to accept any added charges for excess bandwidth usage by the application and to hold Verisign, Microsoft, BBC and the other software vendors harmless.
I've been recommending to Friends and Family in the UK to not install or use the BBC iPlayer Download system because of the Kontiki P2P Server based on the added security risks and the poor design of the software. As a side note it took 3 hours to remove all of the Kontiki Server pieces when the iPlayer uninstaller failed to remove it, without error I might add. She had uninstalled the iPlayer but it left the konki server installed and running she kept noticing the network switch showing a ton of activity even though she was not on her system. She though her system was infected with a virus or spyware. She asked me to look at it so using Remote Assistance I looked at it found that Kontiki was still installed and running. I disabled it and then got all of it's parts removed for Windows.
In looking a the uninstaller script it appears that uninstalling iPlayer leaves Kontiki on the system by default as the code to uninstall it was all commented out. The server was also getting new files to be distributed to other kontiki servers. By definition this makes the iPlayer malware and a Trojan server at the worst.
Everyone in the UK needs to avoid the iPlayer download service like the plague it is.

Reality Check needs to get one...

It's not 9 months, it's about 18 months, and the BBC would not be doing any Mac development if there wasn't a stink about it. They fully intended to develop only for Windows, there was not "decision" to delay.

Feb 07, 08 - 03:30 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

I think the BBC should take MS's phallus out of their backside while they still have a chance. These kinds of partnerships with MS rarely if ever do any good for the partner.

The MDN comment is like some rabid Elitist manifesto.

The BBC, like the British Nation Health Service, is an institution founded on the idea that the public is more important than commerce.

According to MDN, Mac users are more educated so they deserve iPlayer first. According to MDN, Mac users have more money, so they should have iPlayer first.

Moronic.

The whole point of the BBC is that it is anti-elitist and paid for by public subscription, it is the people's broadcasting - with the same kind of egalatarianism that makes Microsoft - available on any computer - the people's operating system. Accessible, affordable.

If you want to live in your gated community called Apple, you can't expect to always have the same fun the masses have.

Oh Mr. Marx,

you haven't been paying attention at all.

Silly Mr. Marx!

Mr Marx. I assume you are a pC user since the point MDN was trying to make eludes your grasp. please understand that MDn is not arguing (I assume) for preferential treatment, but equal treatment. For us as Mac users that according to many popular statistics (Consumer reports, New York TImes Garner...) spend more money per person than Windows users do, should be considered from a business perspective. If the BBC was strapped for cash and making the software available for Mac users was another cost incurred and they couldn't spend, it might be understandable. Their decision was solely on market share. Which is a super sensitive nerve for Mac Users. Mac users as a community have proven time and time again that we as a community are OK with spending more money, just bring the product and make sure it is actually worth the money you charge! There are too many details surrounding the BBC's decision to go with just Windows that looks just like the unfair repeat that us Mac users have seen time and time again and are sick and tired of marketshare. Marketshare is no indication of how the consumers are going to spend their money. Those are Wal-Mart Shoppers. Bargain bin people who see the dollar amount initially is less on the Windows side than the Mac. Intelligent people, understand the idea that initial price does not tell the entire story of Why you want to buy a Mac. All Mac users get this concept. Some PC users understand this idea as well. Not very many though. So re-evaluate your statement so you wont insert your foot in your mouth. You obviously don't have all the facts. Give up every argument you have and understand that most mac users are not arguing logic, we are defending it.

Feb 07, 08 - 05:57 pm Comment from: MacFhearghaile

England? BBC? Who gives a s--t

I hope Univision is listening. Their media player for soccer matches is Windows Media Player only and it sucks ass!

Personally, I'm enjoying the streaming iPlayer very much as it is.

Now we've only got ITV and Channel 4 to deal with- neither of whose services are available in any form for the Mac, damn them.

@MacFhearghaile
England? BBC? Who gives a s--t

I do you !!! your xenophobic comments are bang out of order, you feck'n plonker.

Wiki page for the BBC by no means the whole story, but interesting anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

Goto the url above and guess what it works i have imac 24 10.5 no prob

Feb 08, 08 - 11:33 am Comment from: Reality Check

And finally, I notice none of the wise readers of this forum seem even vaguely aware that the principal reason for the delay in release of the Mac version is that Apple does not license a DRM solution. And until they do, the BBC is unable to provide content to Appl subscribers because of its own licensing agreements with programme makers.

For a more balanced view on the issue, ignore MDN and its rabid forums and try Ars Technica:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/02/08/bbc-iplayer-for-mac-in-2008-but-still-needs-mac-native-drm

@ Reality Check
While I appreciate your reminder on real facts and not dreams of a better mac world, I am completely against any DRM structure. Has any DRM really been truly successful? Obviously the answer is no. These are just silly little tactics made to prevent a portion of the population from copying their content illegally. this is a horrible option to put out content. I believe firmly that if your content is good for audio or video, that people will pay for good quality content. Of course there is always people out there that will rip you off but not everyone is a thief. Apple does not license DRM because it compromises the security that all Studios hold Apple responsible for. Actually, the DRM scheme costs Apple money to maintain. If the studios didn't care, Apple wouldn't care either. I have music posted on iTunes and every $0.99 song I post, I get over $0.88 back. SO for the studios to want to publish their own solution is less of an issue of profit and more of an issue of fear that Apple could control media through the internet. No one company should have that much power as has happened in the past and present.