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I love my iPhone, but EDGE is slow as treacle compared to 3.5G on the USB dongle for my MacBook Pro ... and that's only 3.6Mb/s and the new one is 7.2Mb/s

Saying that my friends with 3G phones complain about the poor battery life.

EDGE is slow yes, but that's only if you're downloading full web pages. Personally, I like mobile optimized webpages, and EDGE is plenty fast for that. (Thank you Google!)

Reluctant praise!

Yes, Edge is painfully slow...

For example, with all the ad banners, http://www.macdailynews.com takes over a minute to load on average. And that's just the home page, if you click on a link to an article, well, there goes another minute.

Very accurate review. The iPhone has acted a bit skittish from time to time, behaving oddly, and certain websites (ahem, MDN) can crash Safari regularly. I'd also like a higher res camera (3.2 would be perfect), and a built-in flash.

It is time that MDN introduced an iPhone friendly version of their website. A good example is the Sky News iPhone site.

Don't expect Darren Waters or the BBC to be objective.

If they had their way they would have dismissed all this and focussed on the latest wonder MS Mobile offering...

Amazing how only after they interview customers do they begin to focus on the good points. Until then its 'too expensive, too limited, only works on O2 and even Apple fans hate Apple for that, only has a 2m pixel camera and other phones have all this and are all technically more advanced'.

M O R O N S . . .

Apple could have made the iPhone slightly thicker, thus increasing the battery life.

Apple could have made it cross compatible with all available carriers and speeds.

Apple could have made deals with all carriers, thus letting the carriers compete with each other instead of using the iPhone as a tool.

Apple could have not been so greedy and demand kickbacks from the carriers that we wind up paying for anyway so the iPhone costs way more than it normally would.

Apple could have, for those who would pay, a larger version with more storage space, even a hard drive.

Apple will come out next year with a revision 2 of the iPhone, they will correct some of their first mistakes, offer a broader line, more options and such.

I will consider one then. Otherwise I get most everything on my large screen matte MacBook Pro with a real keyboard and cheap slim phone.

While the "Beeb" is right to note the slow speed of Edge, they really missed the boat in their lukewarm recital of the iPhone's groundbreaking features. The few limitations of the iPhone are far outweighed by the many amazing things it does. BTW, the only people I have every heard refer to the iPhone as the "Jesusphone" are snotty, condescending reviewers (like this one for the Beeb).

It's very unreasonable to ask the entire web to alter itself to fit the dimensions and speed requirements of a single companies product like a iPhone, especially eliminating ads which it's revenue base.

I think it's reasonable to say the iPhone is a neat device with not a whole lot of practicality if you have to wait many minutes to load a web page.

This crap about 3G and battery life is just that: crap. Regurgitation of Steve Job's marketing bull. Let's take a look shall we? The iPhone has up to 250 hours standby and up to 8 hours talk.

So, what about a modern 3G phone? The Sony W960 Walkman is 3G and has 370 hours standby and 9 hours talk time. 50% more standby time and an extra hour of talk.

Blaming the lack of 3G on battery life is bullshit.

"This crap about 3G and battery life is just that: crap. Regurgitation of Steve Job's marketing bull. Let's take a look shall we? The iPhone has up to 250 hours standby and up to 8 hours talk.

So, what about a modern 3G phone? The Sony W960 Walkman is 3G and has 370 hours standby and 9 hours talk time. 50% more standby time and an extra hour of talk.

Blaming the lack of 3G on battery life is bullshit"

What are you, a Microsoft employee??? If Steve said it, our job as Mac fanboys is to blindly accept it and repeat it. The iPhone is perfect!!!! No one needs any thing else. If you need corporate push email, quit you're job and find another one who will allow web based mail on the iphone...

Sure the network is dead slow but it's just gorgeous and so elegant. I enjoy watching a news site loading beautifully in 2 or 3 minutes!!!

Wooo Hoooo Steve!!

OK assholes, now lets look at the number of web pages per tank full.

Oh, and the Sony Walkman has operating software written by the best as well, doesn't it.

You PC wankers are all about the specks, aren't you. Must really hurt now that Macs use the latest Intel chips. I see why you have switched to bitching about the iPhone specks.

Gee! That phone looks really good. Where do I get one?

"The iPhone is not perfect - far from it ..."

It's interesting to me to see how many iPhone reviewers are so quick to point out that it is not perfect. It's obvious that one could say this about any product—cell phone or otherwise. It seems that Apple's reputation for producing superior products has grown to such proportions that pundits must address that issue before all others. Is it "perfect"? Apparently there is an expectation that if it comes from Apple it ought to be, so its lack of perfection is somehow a flaw. Apple is in pretty good shape, I'd say, when the top, number one issue a reviewer chooses to bring up is its lack of perfection.

And, I'm with Jake on this JesusPhone business. A couple of wags throw out the term and ask "is the iPhone it?" I can promise all of those reading this from around the world that the iPhone is NOT known as the JesusPhone in the United States.

My game got raised last. Twice.

Er, night

The Sony W960 Walkman is 3G and has 370 hours standby and 9 hours talk time. 50% more standby time and an extra hour of talk.

Um, the Sony 960 has more volume: 109mm x 55mm x 16mm = 95920 cubic mm.
iPhone: 115mm x 61mm x 11.5mm = 81374 cubic mm.

Also, the iPhone has rounded edges, so that reduces the volume further. The Sony is 18% bigger, at least, and so has more room for battery. Apple could have made the iPhone thicker to get decent 3G battery life. Some people want that, some don't. That's not your call - Apple's trying to maximize sales. I'm betting they were closer to hitting the right balance than commenters here - they are the ones who have to put their money where their mouth is.

Pete,
Apple COULD in theory let you custom order an iPhone with every feature anyone could possibly want. Just think, you COULD have a 12 megapixel camera built in! Or they COULD just triple the thickness and have a battery that lasts a lot longer! Or you COULD have a 3.5" hard drive with a friggen' terabyte of storage! How about a USB port so you COULD plug in a full size keyboard. I mean, what the hell, all they have to do is make it a little bigger and heavier. Right? And why not unlock the thing and drop the price to $49.99 while they are at it? Too bad they don't have a brilliant strategist like you running the company instead of that darn narrow minded Steve Jobs, eh?

"the iPhone will force every other competitor in the market to raise its game,"

Good luck with that moving target.

Waters was spot on with his conclusion.

To Reality Check (where has he been hiding) and other Microgeeks. You could of course alternatively be honest when presenting your 'case'. If you compare the iphone with anything that offers the same combination of interactive features which are integral to giving a superior user experience there is nothing out there that has superior battery life or stand bye, at least nothing that isn't twice as thick (I believe you understand thickness don't you), offers a small poor quality screen and user experience and usually need a stick to operate, if touch screened at all. Having tried the HTC touch I can only laugh at both the ineptitude of this particular 'competitor' as we all can at your own 'judgement'. It is pathetic and makes the same mistake of adding unusable functions based on outmoded design in place of usability. After all the future always takes time to perfect. Of course we recognise your venom is in direct scale to your fear of recognising your own short comings. Hey guys don't judge yourselves by the inadequacies of your technology choices you will have a heart attack at this rate.

Oh and bye the way push email is there if you require it, it just needs an open mind to find how to do so.

Product x, y or z isn't perfect. Well strike me down with a feather. Here's something which must be news for these BBC FUDcasters, nothing is perfect.

As nothing is perfect (Ballmier's aim with chairs must be getting pretty good though) designers have to make judgments to make the best possible product for the intended use. In the eyes of many people Apple has achieved that, if not in your eyes don't buy one.

Wintrolls are earning their wages today, where is Zune Tang to shut them up?

Guys. I wasn't saying the iPhone wasn't pretty or had a nicer GUI than the competition. That's pretty clear to everyone. (Duh). However, the argument stated by MDN, and by Steve Jobs, and by pretty much every other fanboy out there is that Apple couldn't possibly have 3G because it would hit the battery life too much. This just is not true. There are plenty of 3G phones out there that have comparable or better battery life than the iPhone. The fact they might be a few mm thicker is really irrelevant when the phone is already the size of the iPhone. The guy above who wasted his time calculating volumes for me really does need to get a life.

It seems far more likely to me that the reason for the lack of 3G in the iPhone is that the USA remains its main market place (at present) and that 3G coverage in the US is pitiful compared with Europe, so it's not such a big deal. However, a phone without 3G in Europe is almost unheard of now - even my free basic phone that came with my Euro 10 a month plan is 3G! I'm sure Apple will get there in the next release.

pete:

fine, wait.

in the meantime i can't put my iPhone down!! its as compelling as the newton (mind you if they release a newton with multi touch leopard i'll be the first to buy it), and its only going to get better with the regular updates.

The guy above who wasted his time calculating volumes for me really does need to get a life.

And what's your excuse for posting here?
Chained to the desk are you?

I'm handicapped and crap in a bag, it puts me in the most foul moods.

Sometimes I just sit here for hours in the stink until the nurse makes her rounds.

Well when Apple puts out the 10" or so tablet that fits in a shirt, suit pocket or fanny pack, not a tight ass jeans pocket, and has all the features of a cell phone and a laptop combined. I will consider it.

Remember the smaller the screen, the close it has to be to your face.

So if 15" is good about 2 feet away from the face. Then a 10" will need to be about a foot.

If a 30" is good from 4 feet away then how far away from the face should a iPhone be?

yea, on the bridge of your nose.

Since this is impratical, Apple had to modify the interface to blow up sections of web pages so they can be seen.

But golly, what about those links one accidentially clicks on when trying to zoom into a section of the web page?

Then to "go back" on slow Edge network, incurring more data charges?

Little memory, storage and other things makes the iPhone a really sorry waste of money.

Check:

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3036&p=3

It's not just hype from Jobs.

@Reality Check

Have you used a 3G phone -- with a real 3G service? If you're in the USA with it's laughable mobile phone network, I guess you might not have done.

Here in the UK, where we have mainstream 3G networks, plenty of people have 3G phones; most of my friends with them complain that they have to charge them all the time, and they have poor battery life. Why?

Does Sony's spec account for using DATA with the phone? Nope.

Wanna take a guess why not?

Re: Pete

I didn't calculate the volumes "for you" - I'm not sure what you meant by that. I was pointing out that your comparison of battery life doesn't happen in a vacuum. A bigger phone means you can put in a bigger battery, which means you can get better battery life, even when the phone needs more power. There, was it a waste of my time to "do logic" for you?

The point is, any engineering requires trade-offs. In a more recent comment, you made it clear that you want a 10" tablet, not a phone. The iPhone is not targeted to you, obviously, so you are the one wasting your time complaining.

I'm probably going to wait until spring to see if Apple can get a more efficient 3G chip into the iPhone before I buy one, because I care about some of the features and speed of 3G. Many people think the trade-off is worth it, and I concede that it is a close question. You basically are saying that because you don't mind a very large device, that's what Apple should make. You are not Apple's only potential customer. Judging by the sales so far, I think Apple is willing to write you off for now. Maybe some day Apple will make the "PetePhone" and you will be happy.

Rant over -- I hate it when people waste their time to tell me I'm wasting my time after I use facts to logically back up what I say. I know there's a good chance I'm wasting my time trying to use facts and logic on someone who says his opinion should control reality, but I'm hoping the audience to the conversation can tell the difference and maybe even get something useful out of it.

Additional note: the AnandTech article referenced above really explains it well - Apple expects people to actually USE the iPhone's web access a lot. Standby time is not really the point. Here's the article link again:
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3036&p=3

Good battery life sitting in your pocket is good. Good battery life actually using one of the important features is better. Unlike many of the other smart phones out there, the iPhone makes it easy and fun to actually USE the features it includes.

Calls for companies to be not so "greedy" always come from people who produce nothing. The iPhone is what it is - a great gadget. If you think Apple is being too greedy, by all means - don't support them.

The iPhone costs what the market will bear. If he couldn't make a profit, there would be no iPhone.

You are hilarious!

Still waiting to hear where to buy that SE W960....

Shoeman ...WANKER - top of the class.
Reality Check ...WANKER - with merit.

Pete ...WANKER - still in training.

I agree with most of you guys. If someone is looking for a mobile device that has everything you want then buy a damn computer. You don't want everthing but the kitchen sink in a sleek device specifically geared to the non techie that simply wants to have access to their multimedia, their contacts, the web and a phone. For those requirements, the iPhone IS perfect.

"The Sony W960 Walkman is 3G and has 370 hours standby and 9 hours talk time. 50% more standby time and an extra hour of talk."

It also has half the number of screen pixels, and it doesn't run Safari. You also don't say how long its battery lasts while actually USING a 3G data link.

Designing portable devices is all about trade-offs. Apple's choices seem to work well for a hell of a lot people, even if they don't meet with your approval.

-jcr

"I have been testing it for the last two weeks and whenever people see it they want to hold it, touch it and play with it. And they are genuinely amazed by some of its features,"

I get this reaction all the time.

"In the US it is known as the JesusPhone - because of the hysteria and hype that surrounds the device. But let's start with the disappointments - it is a 2G device and not 3G

They don't call it a phone though the typical reaction is: "Jesus! Where have you been hiding!" Once, my partner got it up to almost 4G before we blacked out.

The lesson here is that if you want to make a girl happy for Christmas, get her an iPhone. With my number on it.

Once iPhone has 3G, GPS...and an SDK all of which is conceivable for 2008...it will absolutely be perfect. I'm not sure what else they could do. Maybe WiMax.

In the meantime we are enjoying the 3 first generation iphones in our household.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course a 2.5G phone isn't as good as a 3G (or 3.5G) phone.

While the difference in speed between, say, Safari and Internet Explorer for Windows Mobile, may make up some of the ground. It is still going to be between ten and fifteen times slower than if it was on a 3.5G network (UMTS HSDPA or similar).

Anything else is just a rationalisation.

Besides, one of the best features about a 3G phone is having a second camera on the front of the phone to make video calls. EDGE just doesn't have the bandwidth for that sort of thing, but with the iPhone's high resolution screen this is a feature which is sorely lacking.

Hey vanillacide,
what kind of usb dongle are you reffering to?
excuse my ignorance.

can you code monkeys stop mdn'ing and get on to how to activate and unlock a uk 1.1.2 iphone please?
im tempted to call the emergency number just so i can call someone.
- "Hey yo, Im just like testing my new iphone, whats up...".
- *click*.

Reality Check: "the argument stated by MDN, and by Steve Jobs, and by pretty much every other fanboy out there is that Apple couldn't possibly have 3G because it would hit the battery life too much."

If this is the case, you have not even *REMOTELY* proven it.

You name a model of phone by a competitor with 3G that has same or better (claimed) battery life. No mention of screen size, no mention of weight or dimensions. You're *clearly* not interested in the truth or you would have included that extremely relevant data, you're just a Microsoft troll. Paid or not, all the same.

I've read enough to believe that the 3G chips *do* consume more power. Is it possible to give up a ton of features of the iPhone and have a smaller screen and have a bulkier heavier device to compensate? Probably so, but it would *NOT* be the iPhone.

There are lower power 3G chips coming down the pike, but the current ones do *not* cut it. If you'd actually studied the issue and learned some facts you'd already know this.

Now run along and go find another bridge to troll under.

I am a bit bored of all the BBC baiting,

I would like to get an iphone but as I am now living in Spain i have to worry that if i choose to move I may be stuck with a contract there, and of course the phone is expensive and the packages also, and yes it is not a perfect thing yet, so why the hell is this an excuse to slam the BBC? these things are true, i often get accused of being a Mac fanatic but honestly some of the rabid (sometimes damned neo-con shite) that appears on this site is scary; this review is even handed and pretty positive.

I don't like the Microsoft connection, but as it is a public service they will for instance be introducing a iplayer for macs, due to public demand, soon, a pain but thats how most things work, the iphone debuted in the states first, movies do the same mostly etc etc, this is mainly due to the size of the market is it not? Windows is still the biggest market and like most software companies tends to get catered for first.

that last bit is confused!

I mean as MS is the still, alas, the biggest player most other software manufacturers tend to release for them first, if not sometimes only for them.

im typing this on my iphone on a train from York to London surrounded by endless fields and all I can say is WOW!

The iphone rocks!

2.5g or 3g I don't give a damn, all I know is that this phone is the best phone you can buy.

Thank you Apple!

All Apple 1.0 products are limited in certain ways because they are cutting edge. If Apple had made the phone 3G the battery life would have sucked and there is limited coverage in the US. If they had made it thicker everyone would have called it a Zune!

Fact is in 2 years multiple versions will be available. This is a new venture for Apple and they cannot cover all the bases at once.

@RealityCheck

You gave the talk time and standby time, neither of which use 3G.

Try giving the Internet use time.

The iPhone is 6 hours.

@god deluded

"... as it is a public service they will for instance be introducing a iplayer for macs, due to public demand..."

Actually that's not right.

The BBC has recently announced that they will offer a video streaming service that works with Macs. Their iPlayer is a quite different service and offers much more usability, but iPlayer is Microsoft only. Mac users will get fobbed off with streaming instead.

The BBC has never committed to a binding time scale for producing a Mac version of iPlayer and their most recent announcement makes it quite clear that it's not something that they are taking seriously, despite the public pressure.

"Have you used a 3G phone -- with a real 3G service? If you're in the USA with it's laughable mobile phone network, I guess you might not have done."

i have yet to actually find 3G service in the US. anywhere.... period.

but hey, if you want a phone that runs on a service that doesn't exist, go crazy.

in some places in california (just for example) you can actually get a signal that is good enough to allow you to make a call. people tag these areas, in much the same way it was popular to tag WiFi areas.



MW: we "nearly" have a phone network here in the US. any day now.

Here's an idea for all of you battery freaks. Slap a strap on this baby, and you'll never need to worry about standby and talk specs again...at least 'till you need another tankful of petrol.

http://asthecrowflies.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/generator.gif

Personally, I'm waiting for the nuclear-powered cellphone and a darn network which can deliver 100 mb/s - and I won't settle for anything less.