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Oct 03, 09 - 06:47 pm Comment from: virtualscott

My question is why these companies insist in fighting an uphill battle like salmon swimming upstream into the bear's claw. Let it go already people! 'App-Lack'...too funny MDN!

The USB-IF never sent Palm the info via registered letter, so Palm is just acting like they don't know they shouldn't be doing this.

What's the worse that the USB-IF can do? Force Palm to remove the USB logo from their packaging?

Oct 03, 09 - 07:20 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Why doesn't someone file a class-action suit against Palm for this crap. Aw hell, if anything they'd sue Apple.

Oct 03, 09 - 07:21 pm Comment from: jjjj

Apple should sue palm for fraud since it says (apple inc.) or Pre uses should class action Palm.

Oct 03, 09 - 07:46 pm Comment from: Scott in Japan

Look for an iTunes update to arrive any second now .......

Oct 03, 09 - 07:55 pm Comment from: Ray

This very easily and permanently solved....Apple is just giving Palm enough USB cable to hang itself with. One of these days iTunes will stop checking USB ID's....

just my $0.02

Sounds like Palm is a Micro$oft wanna-bee

MacDailyNews Take: What a great feature Palm offers their Pre sufferers: Intermittent and unreliable iTunes syncing. This, along with near total App-Lack™, an antique mechanical keyboard perpetually stuck in vertical mode, no soft keyboard at all, a cheap plastic screen that's reportedly quite the nasty scratch magnet, and flimsy, junky-feeling overall build-quality - all backed by a company that's so running on fumes that they can't even manage to come up with their own software to legally sync with iTunes. No wonder they're having trouble selling their crappy, app-less fake iPhones.

All the app-lack companies should band together and make commercials with a white duck?

At one point there was no iPhone and hence no iPhone apps.

Oct 03, 09 - 08:35 pm Comment from: Cascadians

felony fraud forgery theft etc

Oct 03, 09 - 08:46 pm Comment from: Cubert

Palm either has really big kahunas or has not brains.

I hope the USB-F runs them through the ringer. Could you imagine if they revoke their licenses? That would be the end of their company.

Oct 03, 09 - 09:02 pm Comment from: Cubert

Next up for Palm - trying to write the first virus for OS X.

Oct 03, 09 - 09:13 pm Comment from: John

Man, if I were a Pre user (hah!), I'd be soooo pissed that I wouldn't know from day to day whether my phone could sync with iTunes. That would make me crazy, and I'm sure a lot of folks are returning the phone for the simple reason that this feature is in fact intermittent.

Oct 03, 09 - 09:16 pm Comment from: R

If the Pre had been as popular s they had hoped, it seems that they bet the farm that pressure would somehow mount for Apple to open iTunes a bit.

What were they thinking? Palm placed itself against the iPhone thinking that was its only competition. It's really up against 250 million iPods that use iTunes and don't need to budge from their position.

Palm may be in real trouble here. The economy is not turning around despite all the propaganda being fed to us in the news. 200,000+ jobs lost again. The Pre will not pursuade enough people to buy. Palm may sink soon, I think.

Oct 03, 09 - 09:19 pm Comment from: Predrag

..."Palm either has really big kahunas or has not brains."

You probably meant to say cojones (pronounced: co-HO-nes, spanish for testicles). Kahuna is a Hawaiian word meaning "priest, magician, wizard, expert", not any of which is currently employed by Palm.

"I hope the USB-F runs them through the ringer."

That would be <b>USB-IF</i> (USB Interchange Forum).

I totally agree with your point; if the USB license was revoked, Palm would pretty much have to stop selling that Pre thing.

Oct 03, 09 - 09:21 pm Comment from: Predrag

And the tags get confused... bold italic. There...

Oct 03, 09 - 10:02 pm Comment from: Me In LA

The board of PALM needs to clean house.
OTOH, Apple can keep disabling this and laugh like hell.
I know I would, but I'm childish.

Oct 03, 09 - 10:40 pm Comment from: ken1w

I'm not sure Apple can disable it this time, if Palm is going to make Pre pretend to be an iPod by actually identifying itself as an Apple product.

I suppose Apple could start using a new identification method to distinguish real iPods from "fake" iPods. But that would probably mean firmware updates to all previous iPod models. I don't think Apple would consider the effort worthwhile, especially since Palm could illegally copy the new method as well. Apple will probably go the legal action route this time.

As much as I actually want Palm to survive, they are acting like a bunch of children and amateurs. They should just suck it up and create their own media sync software that accesses the iTunes library folder structure. Pre users can still use iTunes; only the syncing would be handled by Palms own software. Apple has every right to block access to their software by non-Apple devices, but Apple cannot block access to folders and files on a hard drive.

Anybody know what kind of sanctions Palm will be facing from the USB-IF over this? They'd better have some pretty sharp teeth to enforce the accurate vendor ID requirement, otherwise what's to stop other companies from doing this kind of thing? Palm's little stunt here could result in the reliability of USB identifiers being destroyed, unless they can be threatened with complete loss of USB functionality for not complying.

http://compliance.usb.org/index.asp?UpdateFile=Policies&Format=Standard#16

The Vendor ID used by a product must match the VID of the company producing the product (the integrator). […] If the VID of a product does not match the VID of the integrator, the USB-IF will not permit the device to be added to the Integrators List.

…so the only punishment is that the device can't be added to a list? Seriously, that's it?? Did none of the USB-IF member companies foresee the significant problems that could result from a company pulling the stunts Palm is pulling?!?

Oct 03, 09 - 11:45 pm Comment from: TheConfuzed1

@ Cubert--

Big Kahunas? Is Palm into surfing now.

Oct 03, 09 - 11:53 pm Comment from: blah blah blah...

the little phone that wanted to be an iPhone

Oct 04, 09 - 12:39 am Comment from: doc

I think a lot of this has to do with DRM compliance, and the big music companies should SUE PALM for every tune, just like they do all the other little people.

Oct 04, 09 - 12:41 am Comment from: DX

Haha, Predrag. Trying to look so smart.

Oct 04, 09 - 12:50 am Comment from: Jubei

The Pre now syncs with iPhoto also?

Oct 04, 09 - 01:06 am Comment from: macslut

@ken1w,

This is exactly what Palm did with the Pre in the past, so yes, Apple can block this again by swapping the product ID.

"Apple has every right to block access to their software by non-Apple devices, but Apple cannot block access to folders and files on a hard drive."

While encrypting the files and folders would be a deal breaker for most if Apple did this, Apple could easily encrypt the XML files that make up the library and playlist data. Apple doesn't do this specifically because they want to allow 3rd party apps and devices access, and this is the way Palm should be accessing iTunes content.

You guys don't get it, Apple is telling you, that you can only sync Apple devices with Apple software, which you have the rights to. That's like Microsoft telling folks they can only sync devices that have Microsoft software with the media center. If Microsoft did that they'd be sued in a heart beat.

@ future:
Don't even try the whole Microsoft thing. Ever hear of the Zune?

Oct 04, 09 - 02:24 am Comment from: auramac

This is really getting pathetic. I have no sympathy for them.

@future

It's worth remembering that the money Apple spent on developing iTunes was given to them by the people who bought their products - that's us. I don't like Palm getting an easy ride that they don't deserve on the back of 'my money'.

Oct 04, 09 - 03:44 am Comment from: Sixvodkas

@ future, you ignorant slut.

Since you seem to be the only person on planet earth not to know this, let me enlighten you;

Apple provides a manner for 3rd party devices to connect and sync to iTunes, Palm simply chooses not to use them and prefers instead to commit fraud.

No. You don't get it.

There's no reason for iTunes to sync with 3rd party hardware. Because you can already transfer your music to any 3rd party hardware you want. iTunes won't stop you. It is not some kind of gatekeeper standing between you and your music files. You are perfectly free to do with them whatever you like, and that includes putting them on non-Apple hardware.

People have even written software to do this for you if you're too lazy to open your Music folder and do it manually.

No, wait. You don't even have to navigate your Music folder manually. I forgot iTunes makes it even easier than that. You can just left-click on a song and select "Show Song File" from the popup menu. It'll open the folder containing it, and you can just drag-and-drop the contents into your Sandisk or Zen or whatever.

So in reality, you're complaining that Apple should make iTunes sync with 3rd party devices because you're too lazy to drag-and-drop, and too lazy to download any of the software that effectively accomplishes iTunes syncing for you.

Yeah, what a mystery why Apple isn't being sued.

Now let me just say, good luck Palm! I hope you can get your USB license revoked just like you're obviously trying to! Seriously, what are these people thinking? Are they high? If the USB IF fails to punish them, I think at that point Apple will indeed step in with a lawsuit, which Palm won't be able to win. For a whole lot of reasons.

Oct 04, 09 - 03:51 am Comment from: Cubert

@TheConfuzed1,
Actually, kahuna is a Hawaiian word for a person who is recognized by the elder kahunas as having their same powers of perception.

I don't know how it ever came to mean your nuts. But, at lease it's always used in the context of having big balls and a no guts, no glory attitude.

This is some serious shit. The USB-IF can yank their license to use the patents in the USB patent pool if they keep that up, and that will kill the company.

-jcr

Oct 04, 09 - 06:34 am Comment from: Dave H

@future

Apple are doing nothing of the sort. They quite happily worked with RIM to put together a Blackberry sync method, and Sony Ericsson supply an iTunes sync plug-in for their phones. The beef with Pre is how they go about this, not what they are wanting to do.

Oct 04, 09 - 06:36 am Comment from: RyanC

So, is this the reason why my Griffin car charger no longer works? The charger works, but last week I had to quit using the Griffin USB cable, and switch to the Apple one. Just let me know where to sign up for the class action.

@Cubert

the term Kahuna has never been associated with testicles. It's just the misuse of the word. Cajones would have been the correct word to use.

Apple should send Palm a seise and desist letter. It's time for Apple's legal team to stop Palm's non-sense and tell them to go do there own music store instead of circumventing iTunes for there needs. Or Palm needs to license iTunes properly and pay for it.
It seems Psystar, palm all think they can mooch off of Apple without proper permission. This needs to stop!

Oct 04, 09 - 11:12 am Comment from: MusicDoc

A CEASE and desist letter would be even better!

@John,
Cease and desist. Man, you must have some pretty big kahunas to post an error like that!

How dare Apple spend millions of their own dollars to create a successful solution between their hardware and software and not give it to the competition for free. Who do they think they are.

I think all successful tech companies should have to spend millions of their own dollars to write the competitions software for them. It's only fair because they're successful. Right?

Palm is just showing what bottom feeders they are. Like Apple or not, they owe their competitors nothing. There isn't any Anti trust. There isn't a Monopoly. Apple is just very successful. Last time I checked, it wasn't a crime.

Palm should change their name to Carp. It fits. And on a bad day they can change the spelling to Crap. It also fits.

With 50,000,000 iPhone/iPod touch users. I don't think Apple is worried about losing the Pre's smallish user base.

Apple owes them nothing! Write your own software Carp, I mean Crap, I mean Palm. If you can that is. Blackberry did.

Oct 04, 09 - 12:54 pm Comment from: Roberto

Pre: It's Craptastic!
Now with iTunes Sync. (For the next few hours at least...)

Oct 04, 09 - 02:30 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

I've heard that one remedy for big kahunas is to soak them in Kahlúa. I wonder who was the first guy to try it?

Oct 04, 09 - 02:44 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

I was reading about Sprint having their commercials for the Pre look like a series of mini-dramas that are embedded in shows like 'Desperate Housewives' and 'Heroes'. I guess it's the only way to make it look like their product is cool and actually used by anyone.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113343180

future got confused and sez: "You guys don't get it, Apple is telling you, that you can only sync Apple devices with Apple software, which you have the rights to."

Incorrect. As MDN indicated above: "all backed by a company that's so running on fumes that they can't even manage to come up with their own software to legally sync with iTunes."

Palm contribute to their own App-Lack™ by not providing users with simple, legal, software compatibility with iTunes. Instead they break USB protocols and masquerade as an iPod. Their entire attitude is LAZY and rediculous. Then add to that their complaint against Apple to the USD-IF, resulting instead with Palm getting slapped for their illegal USB masquerade fraud. Like a 5 year old couldn't see that coming. Then, despite being cited for their infraction, Palm pull the same USB fraud again. This is called desperate dimentia.

As I've said before: No wonder Rubenstein no longer works for Apple. He's a rationality reject. Shameful.

Pre users cannot sue Palm in a class action lawsuit. It takes more than 4 people to bring a class action suit.

Palm mixed it up with the pre, apple feels it. and so do you. otherwise you wouldn't be reading this. forced to use at&t;, which sounds like an awesome company with great customer service and fair pricing. ha ha. oh and I hear picture messages work grrrrreat! finally.
Mac os seems to multi task, you would think apple would have the smarts to make that a phone feature. it dosent matter, you will love Steve BJobs no matter what. He could lead you to an iphone user holocaust and you would follow, iphone in hand. ignorance is bliss, so keep residing in your blissful apple utopia. while the rest of the world moves on (with Picture MMS, not a years after release, but day one.)