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Did anyone else see this "We even HAD on the PowerPC this thing called Virtual PC" Had, as in past tense..... Any importance there?

what's up with the past tense here:

"We even HAD on the PowerPC this thing called Virtual PC that lets you get Windows capability over on their hardware"


mw - hell....hahahahahahahahahahaha

hey wanderer! brilliant minds...

Gate's VIEW is interesting...first I like his spin on how Microsoft "had" VirtualPC for the PPC - as if they did anything other than buy that software.

Second, I like his subtle comparison of a Mac to the XBox because they both had PPC chips.

Realistically, Gates is probably not at all worried about Windows OS licenses because Apple is small potatoes in the business PC market place...what this probably is worrying him about is the DRM war that Microsoft is not winning.

This is great. Either he is wearing a huge poker and face and deep down he's wetting his pants, OR he really really doesn't see the true genius of what Apple is doing and they will get caught completely blindsighted.

Given Gates prior ability to completely miss the boat on technologies until after other people have implemented them, I suggest the latter.

hammer - Gates was an avid poker player so you never know. He might be wetting his pants and be able to keep a straight face.
As for telling what to come, Gates was actually more interested in his poker nights when Paul Allen formerly pulled him out of it and forced him to see that now was the time to act - that they should get down to making software because the microcomputer was on its way.

I think innovation at MS disappeared with Allen. Gates might be an intelligent enough person, but intellectually probably more of a lazy slob who just wanted to find a way to get rich fast...

I love the title Chief Software Architect. Like BG has ever written anything on his own before, or like he does now. I believe the article had a misspelling, and it should have actually been Chief Software Arch-Enemy.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I think, if anything, MS is probably happy about Apple switching to Intel. Apple has said they have no plans to let other box makers use OS X, but that Windows will work on the new Macs. If that holds true, this switch only means more sales of Windows to put on Macs. They have nothing to fear with this switch.

Even if Apple does decide to license OS X to other box makers, they probably don't have anything to fear because Windows is too deeply ingrained in business and society. Most people are never going just up and switch because most PC users don't even know they use Windows let alone know that there are other options. Even if they did, they're scared to try something new.

The comment about Virtual PC may have been very telling though. Interesting.

Sounds like a big river in Egypt...

Metryq: that is great i love funny takes.

ndelc wrote:
"Most people are never going just up and switch because most PC users don't even know they use Windows let alone know that there are other options."

Thats fine becasue guess what, most people really raen't Mac types anyway. Joe Nascar is not Apple's market. Apple makes a premium product and people in that demographic don't get nuance, which is what makes the platform work well. They are just interested in just good enough. There is such a thing as a quality customer and there are plenty out there using PC's that would be great Mac users. Thats what Apple needs to go for, not the masses. Besides, Apple doesnt have the current capacity in manufacuring or support to see a dramatic shift in market share

Keep in mind that even a 1/2% increase in market share is worth BILLIONS in revenues to Apple, so it's not like they have to double overnight to make progress.

See - Apple is smarter than you think.. Sell a Mac to the Home user that runs OSX and runs windows - People can boot windows to do that little project from work and then switch to OSX for all the home stuff, Media stuff Internet etc - Eventually all of these home users will start bucking the system at their workplaces to have Macs installed to actually get work done.

ndelc,

Gates has nothing to fear immediately unless, of course, Macs will run Windows software without needing Windows itself:

Is Steve Jobs prepping 'The Cupertino Project' - Intel-based Macs that will run Windows apps, too?

Longer term, everyone I know who has used a Mac for longer than a week understands that Windows is crap. So, if Macs will run both Mac and Windows, but a Dell or HP can only run Windows, a lot more people will be choosing a Mac for their next PC. Then they'll be able to see Mac OS X vs. Windows for themselves. That simply can't be beneficial for Microsoft.

Memo to Gates (cribbed from an earlier MDN Take): Karma's a bitch.

i agree with ndelc's comments. I also believe Microsoft will be relevant for years. What's the operating system that people in China and India are using. Where's Apple in those markets? Everyone uses MS Office.

So what will make people switch? OS agnostic apps?
Beautiful hardware? A killer app? A killer virus? iPods? Even if i could run both OS's on my computer, as a Windows user, why should i care? Viruses? if i get a virus when i'm running Windows on my Mac and it still screws my harddrive then there's still no benefit.

a real post (wow)...

people have hinted that one could run Windows AND Mac OS X on one of the new Mac Intel boxes, but i would love to see Virtual PC running at full-speed in a window inside Mac OS X. just think; you could conceivably do it, since there would be no more need for emulation, really....and you wouldn't need to reboot.

Gates doesn't care about PC hardware, he doesn't make it. If Windows is allowed to run on an Intel/Mac, he still has the same opportunity to sell Windows and software. His only real worry (poker faced) is that people will prefer OSX and it's native apps to Windows software. And, he's probably too enamored with Vista to see a problem in that regard.
It's the CEOs of Dell and Gateway that should be worried.

Good point Fred. I forgot about that. It will be interesting to see if that comes to fruition. Although, isn't it possible that MS could alter the APIs to break that functionality if used? I'm not a programmer, so I don't know but I do know that MS would do whatever is necessary to protect themselves.

Hammer, you're absolutely right.

I'm sure M$ are pretty worried about the steps Apple has been taking for several years now. Here's their problem though:

1. Windows has so many problems there is nothing they can do to patch them all. They're losing the OS war, but are hanging on cos the investment businesses and individuals have made on PCs and software.

2. M$ are badly losing the MP3 player war. Apple have a virtual lock on the market because their design is so far superior. Whilst this may change, the fact that with all the advantages of getting every other manufacturer to use their sofware, M$ still can't beat Apple.

3. M$ haven't sussed out how to do the Media Center thing yet. The lack of style and design will mean that any M$ solution will be far inferior to Apple. If Apple do come out with a Media center tomorrow it will be the industry leader within the year. How that plays out in the whole entertainment business is another thing. There are a lot more players involved that just Apple and M$.

4. If Apple provide an extremely competitive solution to cheap PCs and laptops, then M$ will start to seriously lose market share. At some point, Apple will have to open up Mac OS X to other PC makers and make their money thorugh licensing and OS sales. I guess that will happen when market share reaches 10-20 %.

5. The only thing left is Office. I'm sure Apple has plans in place to provide Office solutions that will enable any business reliant on Office to migrate if M$ pulls the plug on the OS X version.

The big question is, can Bill Gates be bother to fight all of this? He's made his billions, proved his point. Now he's mired in his bullying attitude. Sooner or later that won't work. There are enough businesses, manufacturers and individuals tired of Windows, that collectively will stand up and refuse to play the game anymore.

"Bill Gates: Apple's Intel switch doesn't really change anything for Microsoft"


No, really?

Peter Rojas said: "PlaysForSure works on a variety of different audio-centric devices, regardless of what sort of operating system, so to speak, they run on"

Since when does "PlaysForSure" work on OS X?

Microsoft has seen the future and it is developing the Xbox. That is their key to everything via the internet for them.
Microsoft is more worried about Google and Yahoo and IBM than Apple.

Apple just has some kind of jinx it can´t get out of to convince the public to buy Apple computers.

I think in ten years time we will see a new dominance in the market place and it wont be Microsoft.

If I were them, I'd worry...

Christopher Powers

I think Billy Boy truly sees no threat. When you tell a lie long enough, such as “people like Windoze,” you begin to believe it yourself after a while. He probably truly thinks nothing has changed.

As regards his use of the past tense with Virtual PC, there’s no hidden meaning there. He used past tense to describe Apple’s use of the PPC, even though – up through today anyhow – that’s the only thing Apple is shipping (and even after tomorrow, Apple will still be shipping PPC’s). Billy Boy probably wasn’t an English major… nor is it likely he ever got an “A” in grammar.

ndelc writes: “Apple has said they have no plans to let other box makers use OS X, but that Windows will work on the new Macs.”

No, Apple said they would do nothing to preclude Windoze from running; they did not say it would run without modifications.

Microsoft are'nt just virtually PC (pronounced pissy), the are in reality

Neil writes: “At some point, Apple will have to open up Mac OS X to other PC makers”

No, they won’t have to do any such thing, and it would be a mistake to do so. But i agree with your other points.

Evert r. writes: “ Apple just has some kind of jinx it can´t get out of to convince the public to buy Apple computers”

That “jinx” is called lack of advertising.

[I]Gates: It doesn't really change anything for us. Apple has always leveraged technologies that the PC industry has driven to critical mass, the bus structures, the graphics cards, the peripherals, the connection networks, things like that, so they're kind of in the PC ecosystem and kind of not.[/I]

What a lying, deluded sack of s**t this man is.

The 1.44MB floppy (or so-called micro-floppy), used by Apple whilst the rest of industry were using 5.25" pieces of almost completely flexible card.

TCP/IP was in use by the mainstream (i.e minicomputing) industry long before the PC industry got its hands on it. And for years, MSFT continued to promote such delights as NetBIOS and Netbeui, whilst simultaneously promoting the utter fscking nightmare that was the WINS (Windows Internet Naming System) resource location service.

Apple had seamless usage of more than 640K long before Windows - ah, the delights of HIMEM.SYS and EMM386 under DOS and Windows all the way to Windows 95.

Plug and Play - available under NuBus back in the late Eighties. Finally available in Windows (after a fashion) in August 1995.

I could go on…

Joel - I think Gates was talking about all the varieties of the windows OS (since he said "so to speak")

You know - "All Varieties of Operating Systems" - as long as they're made by Microsoft.

While MS has its paranoia focused like a laser beam on Google, they're missing the real threat that is creeping up behind them, and that's Apple.

Everywhere I look people are tossing out their Windows PCs for Macs. I guess Microsoft couldn't care less because those are home users and Microsoft only cares about corporate users nowadays. But just wait until Dell and Sony start shipping systems with OS X preinstalled. There's a revolution underway. The future of personal computing is going to be dominated by Apple.

Joel, you made a typo. Should be "PaysForSure".

The thing is, he is mostly right.
He really doesn't have much to fear even if Apple where to offer the software for free to all Intel OEMs.

It will take a lot more then that for him to worry.

I hate the man but it is very detrimental to our cause to pretend that he isn't very very smart and aware of most of the developments happening, and able to turn a humongous amounts of resources in any given direction he wants.
It would be nothing for Microsoft to move the target and prevent Apple from even touching them.

What he said about the clones is also true, most PC makers will not come to Apple unless there is a guaranteed plan, and as you can see Stevo is not the most reliable person around.
(although genius in many other ways).

Even if Apple where to start making inroads into the PC business, it would take 10y for them to get within 50 percent of the market, during which time a plethora of things can happen to make this marker irrelevant.

Besides who wants a HUGE Apple?
Not me, I just want them to be in the 10 percent range, and act like BMW.
Quality, Design, and technologically forward.

Let MS and Dell be like GM/Ford/Toyota/Volkswagen, cars that work ok, but missing the little bit that makes them perfect.
I like being on the short bus, its what makes the Mac ecosystem SPECIAL.

"Gates: Well, the last time Apple went out and licensed their operating system to people they changed their minds and they bankrupted all the people who had been involved in that, and I don't know if we'll see another round of Apple tantalizing people with that or not."

Ouch. Truth hurts. Though it should be mentioned this was before Next acquired Apple.

I absolutely agree with you "seabasstin". In addition to simply prefering Apple hardware/software because I find it better, I too like being part of a small group which recognizes quality for what it is. The world is full of people who are satisfied with mediocrity. I say let them have it. I've seen the greener grass, and I know where I'll stay. For those who remain in the dark despite being shown a better way, I say you get what you deserve.

The truth hurts, but it's incomplete. Gates is using a FUD tactic against Apple's reputation like people worry about a former addict falling off the wagon. After some time when Apple has demonstrated its new self, such comments will only make Billy look bad by dredging up old crap.

It's a dig at Apple for sure, but it's pretty cool to me that Mr. Tough-guy gates has nothing really substantive to say about the present!

Regarding Gates bankruptcy/tantalizing cheap-shots...

[Well, the last time Apple went out and licensed their operating system to people they changed their minds]

Did Apple 'change their minds' because their 'partners' in the Mac clone program were 'supposed to' expand the Mac market - rather than eat into Apple's one and only slice of the proverbial 'PC pizza'?

Who was paying for Apple's R&D;? Power Computing? As I recall, Power was the biggest of all the complainers regarding the licensing fee.

Did even ONE of these Mac clone 'partners' ADVERTISE in anything other than Macworld, MacUser, MacAddict? Of course this is only anecdotal, but I never saw an ad in BizWeek, Fortune, PCWorld, PCmag, MaxPower. Did you?

[and they bankrupted all the people who had been involved in that]

Uh, Apple developed the frigging motherboard the so-called Mac cloners used - the PM 4400, which even used a metal case. Apple developed the entire program so everyone could MAKE MONEY. All these 'partners' had to do was: re-tool their own factories; pay the licensing fee; and MARKET to Compaq's, Dell's, Gateway's, and HP's, customers.

Again, they DIDN'T do that — they sold to Apple's customers. That's an important distinction that the Biz-101 kids will point out.

[and I don't know if we'll see another round of Apple tantalizing people with that or not.]

Why is it that MS screws-over their 'partners' daily — and that seems acceptable — even with the federal govt? Certainly, they never 'seem to' have any effective punishment enforced against them. But, when Apple makes a move to protect it's very existence, that's bad? So bad that one of its AIM chip 'partners' becomes petulant (replaces 25000 company Macs with WinPCs) and apparently 'seems to' withhold chip development.

I guess Apple is greedy, just not the MS-get-rich-or-die-tryin' greedy. Oooo, and that's an unforgivable sin.

-

'R' is correct to point out Gates FUD. So far I've counted only two (2) people that recognize that. Sad.

-

If in a hypothetical situation where Gates wanted to 'destroy' any chance of the PS3 AND the NinRev ever getting 'any' marketshare — he decided to expand the XBox360 marketshare by allowing 360 'clones'. And the 360 cloners started to sell to MS's customers (like what the Mac cloners did to Apple), how long before either Gates or Ballmer went nuts and slammed shut the 360 clone program?

Anyone care to field that one? My Vegas money is on one day.

"they bankrupted all the people who had been involved"
So, it's the pot calling the kettle black: BillyGee accusing Apple of bankrupting companies. What chutzpah!

I could trash Gates' whole argument, but what really gets me is Virtual PC wasn't even theirs!! They bought it from Connectix, but seem to claim it's theirs (well, I guess it is). As far as his other bullshit, it's Apple that has introduced the technologies that the PC market had taken to critical mass, ie; WiFi, Bluetooth, Bonjour, FireWire, legal music downlaods. Gates KNOWS that Jobs won the last 3 years and will win the next 3. Oh, one more thing. Gates just admitted another good reason to go with a Mac:The flexibilities back and forth between the CPU environments is actually pretty high nowadays. So the systems are compatible, after all! Oh, and finally, with the hardware architectures of the PC that Apple "adopted". Uhh, Apple was inventing and cranking out computers while Gates was hocking DOS, wich really didn't exist, until he conned some farmer out of his code.

Gates should just find a quieter avenue of approach. I'd rather listen to Jobs be quiet than Gates pitching his crap.

Sadly, I agree with much of what Gates has to say. In and of itself, the Intel switch means very little. And he's absolutely spot on about an Intel compatible release of OS X: if people want to run OS X so badly right now, there's nothing to preclude them from buying Macs. I've known a few wannabe geeks who've wanted to toy with the idea of installing OS X on their PCs; but I've never known any casual users or IT managers who've said, "Boy, OS X is really fantastic. But Macs suck. I'd only run OS X on a Lenovo."

Whether or not you want to say that the masses are stupid or obsinate or whatever, a lot of people just don't like too much change. In fact, I think it's best to drop the emotive language and simply state that human beings are extremely inertial. This is what makes brand names so valuable.

And when it comes to inertia, Microsoft has it. The new Intel ad on the apple site makes a point about PCs being "dull little boxes, dutifully performing dull little tasks." This isn't far off the mark. PCs are everywhere in the workplace, with vast numbers of them in what I call "drill press operator positions." They do simple tasks for simple people who do the same thing over and over each day. Many of them are running on special software that takes advantage of Microsoft technologies. A lot of people in such positions are generally upset by any kind of change. And companies do not like rocking boats and spending money training people on new systems.

But there's another powerful source of inertia in Microsoft's favor. "Developers, developers, developers." And beyond them, there are LEGIONS of people who spent a lot of time and money to get their MCSE and other certifications. These are the people that companies turn to for buying advice, and these people have every reason to perpetuate the Microsoft freight-train.

It should be instructive to people to note how well MS Office does (even on the Mac platform!) compared to free, open-source alternatives. Free is often times highly over-priced, and it's quite apparent that many companies are finding it less expensive to update MS Office than they are to adopt free software, make sure it works, and train people in its use. This trend will continue.

Mac OS X is fantastic. Steve Jobs leadership is inspiring. The Intel move is great for both Apple and Intel. But just as Apple showed with the iPod that great fortunes could be made selling something other than a computer, Apple will undoubtedly demonstrate that they can develop new markets more easily than attempting to go against MS Office and its legions of MS certified IT dudes.

MS isn't going away any time soon. But that fact alone won't keep Apple from growing, innovating, and discovering new markets. Many more exciting than the the one occupied by Windows and Office.