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Nov 13, 09 - 02:45 pm Comment from: An Optimist

Maybe Jobs can return the favor someday. Microsoft may need it.

Well said, Bill.

Fred Sanford: "'Lizbeth, 'Lizbeth, I'ze comin' 'Lizbeth, it's the big one!"

Nov 13, 09 - 02:50 pm Comment from: January 24, 1984

@An Optimist: Great take!

It's very interesting to compare Bill Gates' statement above about Apple and SJ with the statements made about him and MS by many of posters on this site.

Nov 13, 09 - 03:02 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

I watched this whole interview last night, I highly recommend it.

Nov 13, 09 - 03:06 pm Comment from: Steve516

I like Bill, shame about Ballmer though...

Let's not forget that Bill Gates kept Apple in business. Bash all you want, but never forget that. Everything from Apple that you enjoy now stems from what Bill did in '97.

Steve516 writes, I like Bill, shame about Ballmer though..."

Sorry, I can't be think so well of Bill. He was a seller of snake oil most of his adult life, a bully and a thug against any who would compete against him. And considering the billions his company had to fork out over others' technology, he could be considered a thief as well.

We used to have a game on Linux called xbill involving a room of myriad computer systems - Mac, Sun, HP, Apollo, et. al. - into which an animated character resembling BG entered, pulled the other OS off and inserted Windows. You had to "kill bill" to stop him. As one progressed, the number of "bills" grew into a swarm. Sorta' like me as an old UNIX hand fighting the swarm of Windows boxes I ultimately had to support.

Nov 13, 09 - 03:25 pm Comment from: Spark

@nav01
That's overstating it just a bit.

Love it.

History repeating...

All the help that Microsoft gave Apple in 1997 is part of an out-of-court settlement for Microsoft ripping off Apple when Microsoft released Windows 95. It's not some kind of philanthropic deed. 750 million in cash, guarranteed Mac version of MS Office for 5 years, Microsoft bought Apple stock, etc....

Nov 13, 09 - 03:37 pm Comment from: bobchr

I think you're deluding yourself nav01, in 97 Microsoft decided to make the Macintosh business unit create the Office suite primarily as a test bed. Why not make some money off those rubes still buying that Edsel? As for that $150 mil that Microsoft invested, Apple may have been in a sea of red ink but they still has a $300 mil cash position.Microsoft cleaned up on that crocodile show of faith to the tune of $18 billion. That was all Steve's stewardship, while Microsoft was busy getting into antitrust trouble.

Nov 13, 09 - 03:40 pm Comment from: Zuno the Clown

Bill Gates never did anything to keep Apple in business.

At the time of the '97 deal with Microsoft, Apple was still in a healthy cash position. The keys to Apple's long-term viability at that time were stemming quarterly losses by cleaning up the product line (Jobs + Ive), modernizing the inventory and distribution systems (Tim Cook), and developing a sustainable OS strategy (NeXT).

All the Microsoft deal did was help with consumer confidence by ensuring that Office and Internet Explorer would be available for the Mac. The cash transaction that was part of the deal was merely symbolic and had little to do with Apple's financial viability.

Nov 13, 09 - 03:41 pm Comment from: Jubei

@Nav01

Another clueless Windows user.

From what I can tell, Gates and co. had to buy apple stock because they stole QuickTime player code. At best the money represented Bill's faith in Apple, so that developers and potential Mac customers didn't think Apple would go out of business any time soon. btw Microsoft long ago sold their Apple stocks.

Bills greatest gift to humanity was how NOT to run a computer company, i.e., ineptitude, thievery and harassment.

MDN- Safari won't let me leave a post, yet camino does, what gives? It also doesn't show the title of the post at the top of the window, in Camino it works however, weird.

Nov 13, 09 - 03:45 pm Comment from: qka

The Jimmy Buffet lyric goes-
"I'm glad I'm not a lawyer, a thief, or a banker."

Bill Gates is the spawn of a lawyer and a banker. (seriously, look it up.)

Nov 13, 09 - 03:58 pm Comment from: Cascadians

Well of course Thief Billy Goat the Troll has to express appreciation for Apple, the Source from which Microsoft steals their copying.

M$ is primarily a copying company, after all.

That Steve Jobs learned to accept the Thief M$ always nipping at his heels and move beyond that albatross speaks to what a high-minded and great man Steve Jobs has become.

Nov 13, 09 - 04:02 pm Comment from: Frank

Someone at CNBC must be having fun flipping the streaming switch on/off as i can barely get through the whole interview without heavy buffering.

Apple in '97 — while recognizably in deep doo doo — had about $2B in cash [depending on who's report you read].

As mentioned, there was a HUGE out of court settlement — hmmm, a recurring theme, huh? — the 5 yr guarantee for MS Office; and upwards of $850M for stealing Apple code [actually using QuickTime code line for line]

The $150 MS 'investment' was payment to reprint Mac OS 8 boxes and repress the Mac OS 8 CD-ROMs to allow the MS request of defaulting IE instead of Netscape. Loads of disks, et al., in some landfill somewhere.

Finally, someone had MS by the cajones. But, instead of punishing MS, Jobs used them to make Apple stronger. Make the guy that stole from you, be your unpaid cheerleader.

We all enjoy fantasizing that revenge is the best revenge. But, we all know that living well is.

Jobs scares Gates. That's all Jobs needs emotionally. But, Jobs is a thinker. He's not emotionally wrapped up in trying to rule the world.

Nov 13, 09 - 04:33 pm Comment from: flappo

that's the difference between gates and ballmer

gates has achieved something and is in the same league as god , i mean steve , ok maybe not but ya know

ballmer's just a 3rd rate big mouthed fax salesman who got lucky

and the state of mucrosuck just shows

nowhere to go ... but dowwwwwwwn

Well at least he didn't attribute Apple's success to a rounding error.

I secretly use Macs and I have an iPhone and an iPod. Long live Apple!

ahh! peace in our time, nice!

The further from Microsoft Gates gets, the more honest he can be.

Nice words from Bill Gates, I would like to meet Warren Buffet.

Nov 13, 09 - 06:12 pm Comment from: Jose

nav01 writes: "Let's not forget that Bill Gates kept Apple in business. Bash all you want, but never forget that. Everything from Apple that you enjoy now stems from what Bill did in '97."

That was a Microsoft public relations stunt. Microsoft thought it was safe investing in Apple. They thought Apple would never reemerge as an influential tech company. Microsoft's investment was intended to assuage the heat from States and the DOJ for killing Netscape.

Boy were they ever wrong.

The fountain of Apple's success is Steve Jobs. As Larry Ellison recently recounted. In those early days of Jobs' return to Apple, they were talking about investing in Apple to bring it back. Apple didn't need Microsoft. There were plenty of investors waiting to help.

Nov 13, 09 - 06:20 pm Comment from: ken1w

@ nav01

The investment Microsoft made in Apple was really a token gesture of support. The monetary amount did not "save" Apple. Microsoft later sold those shares for significant profit.

What Microsoft did that helped Apple back then, was to agree to provide Internet Explorer for Mac for a few more years, and continue to offer Microsoft Office. I'm sure Microsoft had no problems with continuing to offer Office, since it was a money-maker for Microsoft; it still is today. And Apple made IE the default browser for Macs until Safari came online, which helped Microsoft consolidate its advantage (and victory) over Netscape.

So it was quite beneficial to Microsoft to have Apple NOT go out-of-business in the late 90's, especially with the anti-trust stuff going on for Microsoft at the time.

Nov 13, 09 - 06:49 pm Comment from: MacRaven

As for the MDN take, I wouldn't call Bill's statement's lying, he is just clueless about the capabilities of his own company.

Though Bill has said real lies, but the weren't the quotes you used above, like when he said:

"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

That's a Bill quote from 2007

Nov 13, 09 - 06:50 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

@ken1w
Not to mention all the IP settlements that took place, in great favor to Microsoft, who at the time had been also caught with chunks of QuickTime code inside there WMP, that was literally stolen line by line from Apple. So beyond what you state, it was alos very beneficial for Microsoft, to have Apple to stop litigation in such matters. So this Microsoft saved Apple crap is just that crap.

Nov 13, 09 - 06:56 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

Bill is such a GEEK.

Apple did have other bidders for the company; it would never die. For example, Larry Ellison was trying to buy it. Apple's future was never in doubt, they were just trying to find it.

Actually, by saying that Jobs saved Apple, he scooted around the real fact that Jobs has laid out a legacy standard for the entire hardware and software industry for years to come.
Jobs vision and approach will be studied in every university's business department, if not already.

Nov 13, 09 - 09:17 pm Comment from: TigerCliff

Bill is a fierce competitor, who took advantage of any situation... and probably stepped over the line many times. He's a geek, with a little bit of charm, but he's business first.

Ballmer is a fierce idiot. He's the fat frat guy you convince to smash empty beer cans on his forehead.

Nov 13, 09 - 10:13 pm Comment from: Brau

Don't forget the evil Gates is busy working on a dastardly scheme to suck our oceans into the sky.

Trust me!

Nov 14, 09 - 12:04 am Comment from: Arnold Ziffel

Bill Gates: the most overrated business person in the world.

/*
Bill Gates: the most overrated business person in the world.
*/

Wrong! ... his OSes suck and his 2nd in command sucks- but he's a great business man. He invented the concept of software licensing- that's one innovation (and the only one) that's his- Steve Jobs admitted this himself. You don't become the richest guy on the planet by being overrated.

Nov 14, 09 - 12:15 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Mac users lived the history and we don't need to recount it.

Honestly, does anyone really think that nav01 bothered to stick around to hear your rebuttals? Only the most egotistical among the hit and runners would post twice. Even then, they're just more of the same specious declarations.

I like Apple's stategy. I like it a lot.

Nov 14, 09 - 01:59 pm Comment from: Fred Mertz

TigerCliff,

I doubt he needs any convincing.

Nov 14, 09 - 06:08 pm Comment from: Bodie

At the end of the day it's all about competition. Which is a good thing. Consumers benefit because of newer, better, faster.

Mac is my computer choice because of OS-X. In the sub $1000 category, most choose Windows. Above that, most choose Mac.

The only thing I see Apple doing right now, that limits market share, is not offering matte screens across the board. They are presently a little too big for their britches. And they have a decline coming if they don't listen their customers in this regard.

Nov 14, 09 - 08:25 pm Comment from: Daner

@RC -
I didn't remember the story about Larry wanting to buy Apple so I went looking for it. What I found was surprising on at least 3 levels: http://windowsitpro.com/article/articleid/16910/larry-ellison-may-buy-apple.html

It did not take long for this pair to come up with their show after Steve Jobs was named CEO of the decade. I got CNBC's e-mail announcing the program. I could not believe it!

It transpires that the pair itself is behind engineering this show for themselves so that people does not focus too much on Apple's successful products and CEO.

I like Mr Buffett.

Truly amazing!!!

Why does everyone think Gates is that evil? So, he is a business man. What money has he stolen from any of you. Windows is Windows. You bitch about it usability, but you can't argue with market share. I love Mac, but hey, we are still in the serious minority.

Jobs and Gates are of the same ilk. I just like Jobs' product more. He is an egomaniacal control freak.

To put what these enormous companies do right and wrong on the shoulders of Gates and Jobs, it a bit ridiculous. There are so many factors, these guys are figureheads. especially Gates and his lack of insight with what is going on with Windows security or lack thereof.

Also, why the fuck can't MDN let Jobs take a goddam compliment from Gates? What is the big deal other than the fact that one insanely rich assholes is kissing the ass of another insanely rich asshole.

Nov 15, 09 - 07:02 pm Comment from: Foris

Yeah, this is just part of Gates' campaign to write over the pages of history, the ones where he was a liar, a cheat, a thief, and now paint himself as a statesman and philanthropist. They were ill-gotten gains, and that will never change, and when you have so many billions, doing this sort of thing costs you nothing really. A robber baron is a robber baron.

Let's not forget that Bill Gates kept Apple in business. Bash all you want, but never forget that.

BG didn't save Apple, Apple gave him a walk on a felony rap.

Microsoft agreed to keep selling MS Office for the Mac for five years, because they had been caught red-handed with stolen Quicktime code. SJ cut a deal, so instead of Apple going under and MS's top execs doing time, MS ante'd up $150M and didn't kill Office on the Mac.

-jcr

Nov 17, 09 - 05:48 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@iluvmymacs

"He invented the concept of software licensing-..."

No he didn't. It existed long before he put the concept to use. It was only after he and Allen started Microsoft, did he bring in lawyers to create his iron-clad legal agreement for those who wanted an operating system for their hardware. Lessons learned from his Harvard education, or lack thereof.

Back in the dorms, he was always posting stupid, whiny proclamations about copying stealing he and Allen's software creations. His flyers were cut & paste verbiage taken from existing agreements. It was a lawyer who wrote the agreement that would bring him his riches and his notoriety.

The legalese in the licensing agreements forbids PC manufacturers from selling any other OS but Windows. Even today, if Dell chooses to sell you a Linux box, they still have to pay Microsoft for a Windows license that my never be used. That's just good business.

It's too bad Gates the programmer was so horrible at what he did for a living. I mean really, Microsoft Bob was his wife's idea but that didn't stop him from foisting that product on the masses. It was a CARTOON UI, for god's sake!

On balance I doubt history will be kind to him or Windows. I believe they'll see it as a blight on humanity and no where will that be more obvious than in the archives of enterprise. You watch, as enterprise shifts to an alternative computing paradigm, the floodgates will unleash a river of comedic episodes that will cast a light on this company's ineptitude.

It will be difficult to fathom the monetary damages and the pain and suffering inflicted on several generations of PC users who are perhaps the most cynical group of computer enthusiasts on the planet, caught up in a scandalous game of monkey in the middle.

Meanwhile, Gates slinks away after his swan song (vista) utterly failed in the marketplace.

I will always remember Bill Gates as the epitome of a greedy snake-oil salesman peddling his kool-aid.