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Another complete, clueless and even careless dumbass.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:20 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

Cut back on the caffeine MDN, there was more 'MacDailyNews Take:' than article. We got your point from the first take…

Nov 19, 08 - 09:22 am Comment from: Connor MacBook

They made the same ballsup on CrunchGear. I was quick to correct them

Nov 19, 08 - 09:22 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

The place Apple DOES need to focus on is replacing the awful 'Mighty Mouse', maybe with a Multi-touch pad.

Email to sent!

Apple should do another "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC" with the PC guy in a sling from his shoulder in pain from reaching to the screen and in his hand, a screen cleaning rag required because he is touching the screen all the time.

Seems like a lack of advertising on Apple's part. Maybe they need to run a few positive ads showing the product instead of actors.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:30 am Comment from: Jay-Z

So apparently anyone with a computer and an internet connection is a journalist now.

Ouch!

It seems that if, nowadays, a journalist has no idea whatsoever and is an embarrassment to his editor and colleagues, they stick him in the 'tech. department.'

Nov 19, 08 - 09:34 am Comment from: Connor MacBook

I think HP is promoting it as "the world's first multi-touch notebook" and lazy reporters are just regurgitating it without questioning. (Of course HP will claim a technicality, that it's the first multi-touch screen)

@HolyMackerel

Yeah i agree with you man the MDN writer needs to chill. The guy who wrote the story about the HP does have a point though. Whine all you want MDN but Apple needs to stop dipping their toes in the pool with "Multi-Touch" and start using the tech more and more in all their computer products....all of them.

Macworld 2009 should be very interesting.....I hope.

MDN toys with Hesseldahl like a cat toys with a mouse: with complete and utter dominance.

I agree. How about getting back to the virtues of the Mac and away from Vista's failure for a while.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:40 am Comment from: MacFhearghaile

Just the kind of writing one expects from a hit whore.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:41 am Comment from: Grigori

Arik's inbox is now preparing for the email equivalent of a Type 5 hurricane.

Bring on the Takes, MDN. It's refreshing to read something truthful and well-written.

I want more MDN Takes, not fewer.

@Jersey_Trader

Yeah, I second that, that would be a great way to show people all cons of touch screens

Nov 19, 08 - 09:50 am Comment from: buffalo

Sorry, but Apple does not have a notebook with a multitouch screen. They have notebooks with multi-touch track pad. It appears that the article goes to great lengths to point out that its the screen that's multitouch. Just chill. Life is not a race. Relax and enjoy.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:51 am Comment from: Bobby Skinner

Though I see the arguments against multi-touch on the screen, I think what people want. Though there are some disadvantages it is the most intuitive way to use multi touch as Apple's own iPhone demonstrate.

I think multitouch is the justification for tablet-macs. And even though Microsoft's Big A-- table seems ridiculous for it's size, it may be the first thing they got right in a long time. The best multi touch surface is going to be a desk that is connected as your second display.

On notbooks Apple should put a second LCD under that track pad and treat it as a second display on the laptops.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:53 am Comment from: The Dude

@HolyMackerel,
I think you have something there. A USB or Bluetooth version of the new MacBook/MacBook Pro trackpad so everyone can enjoy the experience. I know once upon a time (and most likely currently) there were some trackpad like devices, but with Apples multitouch, that would be pretty kewl.

The Dude abides.

buffalo,

What part of Hesseldahl's sentence incorrectly reporting that "Apple so far sells only two multitouch-enabled products, the iPhone and the iPod Touch" did you not understand?

Nov 19, 08 - 09:58 am Comment from: The Dude

ohh, and people.... don't email this hit whore... he is employing "The Dvoark Strategy". He is purposely baiting us to email him so he can report to his boss "how much email" and "how many hits" his articles get. You are justifying his existence by emailing him. I thought we learned this by now.

You would be better off emailing the editor or someone higher up the food chain to let them know the FUD he spreads makes you steer clear of their website, and if you have a subscription, you are going to cancel it.


The Dude abides.

Nov 19, 08 - 09:59 am Comment from: JadisOne

I guess there's no such thing as research anymore.

I think that the Multi-Touch track pad is REALLY STUPID. We have the technology to build it into the screen. Let's do it now. This track pad thing is pathetic. Granted it is cool, it is technology that could have been released three years ago. It just was not. Not very impressive at all.

A few things here. First, Dell was the first with a multi-touch screen, although not in the consumer market, with it's Latitude XT. That computer shipped with a capacitive screen, and a later firmware update opened up the multi-touch.

Second, this HP is a convertible. That means no reaching necessary. It's simply an extension of the Tablet PC idea, which is great. It can be used as a regular laptop, or a giant iPhone! I'd say HP gets the multi-touch crown on laptops for now. When Apple comes out with a multi-touch screen for a laptop, are you going to rip them for having a bad idea? I doubt it.

Thirdly, while an iPhone can be considered a "computer", it's not a computer in the same sense that a laptop is a computer. Get over yourselves with the iPhone being the first multi-touch computer.

As usual, MDN goes more for the vitriol than for accurately reporting on the original article. As buffalo pointed out, the article is about touch screen technology, not touch track pad.

And speaking about touch screen technology, I just saw Quantum of Solace last night. Not the greatest film I've ever seen, but an awesome sequence with a touch screen display.

Nov 19, 08 - 10:15 am Comment from: MaLvado

Email sent!

The preamble to Ariks' story aludes to the fact that Apple does not have a "multi-touch enabled screen" on a Mac. So in this case Arik is correct.

If you MDN dissenters really want a touch screen laptop so badly, check out E-Bay in a couple of months. There will be a lot of those HP Gorilla Arm rejects up for sale at deeply discounted prices.

Nov 19, 08 - 10:17 am Comment from: rdbvideo

I CANNOT STAND people touching, and smudging my screens.
If they were not clients, I'd punch them out!

Can't people figure out that you can point to something a couple inches from a screen... you don't have to touch it.

I feel like I'm running a daycare with all the fingerprints on my screens.

As you can tell, I wouldn't be buying a touch screen computer... until people stop being oily.

Nov 19, 08 - 10:21 am Comment from: Think

@Jordan

That's right, the iPhone/iTouch is not a computer.

You need computers to run Safari, Youtube, Google Maps, iPhoto, iCal, Mail, Address Book.....

Then you have that whole category of third party applications....

Hmmm, if it runs all these programs, what is it then?

Oh yea, it runs an OS called OS X. Nope not a computer. ; )

Nov 19, 08 - 10:30 am Comment from: Think

OK, for you dolts defending Arik. Do you not understand the words on the printed page?

"Apple so far sells only two multitouch-enabled products, the iPhone and the iPod Touch." That is a LIE.


"...a touch interface would be awkward." "...I imagine that repeatedly reaching up to touch the screen a few thousand times a day would make my arms and shoulders tired. Ideally, touch-based computers would be built into the surfaces we sit at."

After all that fluff he then answers why Apple did multitouch on the large trackpad. The whole article was a waste of time. A hit whore piece.

AC: I think that the Multi-Touch track pad is REALLY STUPID. We have the technology to build it into the screen. Let's do it now. This track pad thing is pathetic.

Fortunately you're not in charge at Apple.

The touch pad works very well and is practical. A touch screen on a laptop would be a monumentally dumb idea, with people accidentally knocking over their laptops and getting "gorilla arm".

On a laptop it does not make sense.
On a vertical desktop screen it does not make sense.

It can make sense on a pad-like machine as the (including convertible laptops with a pad mode)
It makes a lot of sense on the handheld iPhone.
It works very well on a touch pad as people who have actually used the Apple touchpads can attest.

Many theoretically brilliant ideas turn out to be really stupid in real life. The distinction matters, and Apple most of the time is aware of it...

Nov 19, 08 - 10:37 am Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

The only time a touch screen computer makes sense is in a kiosk where someone is standing in front of the computer. So unless HP sells an accessory kiosk with their computer, I think I'll pass.

Nov 19, 08 - 10:43 am Comment from: buffalo

Kristen,

Yes, in that sentence, taken out of context makes it appear that the iPhone & iPod touch are Apple's only multitouch products. In the context of the article however, multitouch is referring to multitouch screens, not trackpads. It would make the writing very kludgy if it constantly refers to the concept of the multitouch screen. This is the technology of the iPhone and the iPod touch and Apple does not have any other product with the multitouch screen. Yes their is a multitouch trackpad, but for the vast majority of people, multitouch refers to the technology on the iPhone, interacting with the screen.

Note, I think Apple shouldn't put out a notebook with a multitouch screen. The trackpad is the better solution. I can tolerate smudges on my iPod touch screen. Barely. The same smudges on my notebook would drive me crazy.

When will people get it? Multi-touch screens are, on any device much larger than an iPhone, aside from a few limited tasks, freaking USELESS.

What can you do? Rotate your photos manually instead of using a multi-touch trackpad or mouse? Maybe play a few touch-related games? Play around with google earth until you get bored? Let's consider the most common things people do with a computer (especially laptops, which are taking over the market by the way).

Web browsing. Better with a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying that the iPhone isn't a reasonable web browser considering its size, but it's nowhere near as easy as with a trackpad + keyboard or mouse + keyboard combo. Imagine a 13" MacBook with a multi-touch screen instead of trackpad. Clicking on links? Annoying, easy to miss, tiring. Pinching to zoom in and out? What's the point? This is only really necessary on a small device like an iPhone. You can do this with the trackpad anyways just by holding down control and sliding two fingers up and down the trackpad. Typing in URL's? Who wouldn't use a physical keyboard over a virtual one if they were both on the laptop?

Further, you still wouldn't be able to replicate some of the awesome web browsing features of the multi-touch trackpad, like the three-finger-swipe side-to-side to go back and forward in the history; have fun reaching up and trying to hit that tiny back/forward button. Want to activate expose? Sorry, no four-fingered-swipe for you, better reach for the keyboard button!

Unless of course they build the same gestures into the screen as they have into the trackpad, in which case, why bother?

Email: Hello, physical keyboard!

Word Processing: See above

Gaming: With a few exceptions, hello trackpad and keyboard, possibly even an extra mouse!

Photos: While it might be fun to flick around, zoom in, and rotate your photos for a while, I think pretty soon you'll realize that this is mostly useless eye candy without the ability to actually manipulate your photos in a substantive way; and for that, you're probably going to want a proper pointing device with accuracy like a trackpad or a mouse.

Are you starting to see a theme here?

Multitouch built into the screen is a terrible idea that some people cling to nevertheless as if it's the future of interface. Just because something is different doesn't make it better. Voice control would be a very limited method of control as well, but even that has more potential for usefulness than touch screen displays. They are pure eye candy, all form and no function, and Apple has wisely avoided the trap of jumping into a category just because it's "hot".

I have a first generation Macbook Pro from '06, and it's trackpad let's me use two fingers to scroll and a two fingered-click to right click. I guess Apple doesn't consider that Multi-Touch™, but that should count for something. I'd say the first multi-touch enabled laptop was released February 14, 2006.

Nova81426: I have a first generation Macbook Pro from '06, and it's trackpad let's me use two fingers to scroll and a two fingered-click to right click. I guess Apple doesn't consider that Multi-Touch™, but that should count for something. I'd say the first multi-touch enabled laptop was released February 14, 2006.

Indeed.

I thought nothing would every get me to give up my multi-button, scroll wheel trackball and start using a trackpad. I work with CAD, and I need a lot of control. I've never like the feel of track pads.

Then I replaced my MacBook Pro with one of the new ones, and I haven't used my trackball since I first booted it up. I love the feel of the glass trackpad. I use light taps instead of depressing the pad all the way. The one, two, three, and four finger commands are awesome. I almost feel lazy doing so much of my work with slight gestures and taps. Reaching up to touch the screen all the time would be hard work.

The other day, our IT guy took a look at my new MacBook Pro and was oohing and awing. He's a Windows guy, but he's sick of the problems he's had to deal with trying to keep Vista going for his clients. He said he's thinking seriously about personally switching to a Mac.

Mailed them as well!

^_^

Nov 19, 08 - 12:19 pm Comment from: shawnpetriw

I wonder to what extent the "Magic Map" in the CNN newsroom has primed expectations for multi-touch screens in consumer products.

While multi-touch on that map's screen (and being a live demo on TV) is a great application of the technology, I think it would be a very poor interface for most applications.

But people like to have the cool technology they see on TV, whether it makes sense or not. It's on TV, after all.

Apple has already instigated a shift to glass covered displays – next step: on-screen multitouch (without trashing the display with greasy prints & scratches)?

Man is Arik ever getting his ass reamed out over there LOL.

Nov 19, 08 - 01:11 pm Comment from: thethirdshoe

Keep holding your arm out.
Come on, you can do it.
Keep holding it.
Keep holding it.
Some more.
Come on, only 224 pictures left to adjust...

What exactly are the patents that Apple holds for multitouch and if they have them why are we seeing so many multitouch devices from companies other than Apple on the market?

@ Think

Are you an idiot? Or only capable of reading every other word?

I clearly state that while the iPhone can be considered a computer, it's not the same kind of computer as a laptop.

My MacBook Pro runs:

Photoshop
MS Office
Quicktime
MS Windows

And can bleeping copy and paste! An iPhone? Not so much.


Oh, and for all those attributing "gorilla arm" to this HP: IT'S A CONVERTIBLE! Shut up!

Nov 19, 08 - 02:11 pm Comment from: eaDGbe

I had the following exchange with the author, Arik Hesseldahl:


Arik,
You blew it. You need to correct your "HP beats Apple" article to acknowledge that Apple currently offers its entire line of Mac laptops with multi-touch enabled track-pads. See below. Ooops!
Dave



On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Arik Hesseldahl wrote:

Correct what? Where in its product line up does Apple offer a multi touch display? Nowhere. That is what the article is about. If you read the piece and not the selective summary at MacDailyNews, you find that I clearly am referring to multi touch displays and that I fully acknowlege multitouch trackpads on the Macbooks. The end result? There’s nothing to correct, because I have the facts on my side. You can debate whether or not touching the screen is a good thing or a bad thing, but you can’t accuse me of getting the facts as they are wrong.....

AAH



Arik,

Your article's subtitle states:

"Apple watchers assumed Jobs & Co. would be the first to offer a multitouch laptop, but Hewlett-Packard has beaten them to the punch".

Your article states:

"Still, Apple so far sells only two multitouch-enabled products, the iPhone and the iPod Touch."

When you don't clarify that you mean multitouch screen, you have misled.

You do acknowledge Apple's multi-touch trackpads, but only to downplay their importance with "Yet the only nod..." wording, as if this approach in some way fails to complete with the HP screen version, a topic on which I feel certain your readers would appreciate your analysis.

So, you seem to dismiss the value of the Apple trackpads, yet only a few paragraphs later you speak doubtfully about the tired shoulders syndrome of the HP solution. What about those Apple track-pads? Do they allow the user to go "flipping through album and movie covers on iTunes" with a flick of the fingers? Or go "thumbing past pages of digital books and magazines" with a swoosh of digits? Hmmm.

Speaking of analysis, your analyst Tim Bajarin apparently did not hear Jobs say at the Q&A;portion of the Macbook rollout that although he considers the market for tablets nascent, yet when it blossoms they have several great ideas. That doesn't seem like "no sign of interest" to me.

Respectfully, you blew it. At the least you should correct the article to include the word "screen" when referring to multitouch enabled devices.

Cheers,

Dave

Knowing how creative and inventive Jobs and Co. are; does anyone who takes a moment to think actually think they did not consider a touch screen computer?? When working on the iPhone it never dawned on them to build and test a prototype computer?

"Shows no sign of interest" is an idiotic thing to say.
They've probably been USING touch screen prototypes for years in their R&D;department. The fact that they HAVEN'T released a retail version says a lot about their experience in the lab. It must not be as good in daily use as people think it would be. If it was they'd have produced and released it.

I went to my local Best Buy to look at the desktop touchscreen HP and it was a greasy mess; the sanitation issue was so alarming I chose not to touch it to "try it out". Granted it's probably no better on a keyboard but being able to see greasy smears backlit on the screen... blech.

It is good that you publicise such things. Every such instance of malicious or ill-informed reporting has to be challenged and referred to the publication. I sent the following to BW

subject: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2008/tc20081118_989982.htm

from: ()

comment_type: Respond to a story in BusinessWeek Magazine

comments: Articles like this http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2008/tc20081118_989982.htm

do much to destroy Business Week's reputation as a business news source.
I have rarely seen such an ill-informed, totally baseless inaccurate and actionable lies.
Business Week is already on the slippery slope to failure and I regret this. But articles like this are
powerful lubricants to get you there faster.
This is not journalism. It is purposeful disinformation. I have to wonder at Hesseldahl's motives since
the likely explanations are highly dubious.

Nov 19, 08 - 02:59 pm Comment from: Roger Knights

The article includes this juicy typo (regarding multi-touch): "Now it's de rigeur."

@ eaDGbe & Chano

I certainly understand what you're trying to accomplish and that's noble, but you're going about it all wrong.

Dave, you do a good job in the second email to call out the specific instances where he is incorrect. But you're doing it in a condescending way that only makes him defensive.

Chano, all you do is attack Business Week and state that they're wrong and they suck. To say there are "totally baseless inaccurate (sic) and actionable lies" in the article is a totally baseless, inaccurate statement. Two or three sentences missing one word (display) does not make an article full of lies.

I'm sure both Arik and BW are getting tons of emails like these, and the only impression they get is, "attack Apple and the fanboys come out". Next time, be more tactful and specific without attacking, and you might get your point across.