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Nov 21, 07 - 10:29 am Comment from: Ampar

My wish list:
Built-in DVR, slot loading DVD, game capabilities, HDMI pass through, more formats support, wireless web access and audio streaming to Airport Express.

And on a related note, high-def movie rentals from the iTS.

Nov 21, 07 - 10:30 am Comment from: Ampar

Um, that's for the new Apple TV coming out in early 2008.

Wii + Wii Transfer = Apple TV

Well, at least enough of the Apple TV functionality to keep me from buying an Apple TV. It's a shame that the little box has been so kneecapped.

Nov 21, 07 - 10:35 am Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

Apple TV had to be placed into the market, even though it had no way to achieve large sales -- immediately. It is there to stimulate the web into dumping proprietary protocols, such as Microsoft's codecs for multimedia and web sites that only work with Internet Explorer. Together with the Mac becoming more popular and the iPhone phenomenon, Apple TV is slowly getting the web to become more Apple friendly. Note that Google has committed to making YouTube content available under h.264. All of the dimwitted pundits will be eating crow when the tipping point comes and Apple TV takes off.

Nov 21, 07 - 10:35 am Comment from: Touch

Take a look at the CNET Windows Vista Page! Incredible add displayed!

http://www.cnet.com/windows-vista.html

At our home we use the AppleTV every day, it is great for children's videos, playing your Itunes music library thru your home entertainement center, displaying family photos, watching/listening to podcasts and catching up on missed TV shows.
In my opinion, Apple TV bashers have never used it, or do not have the correct setup in their home. For my family, the AppleTV is great!

Nov 21, 07 - 10:40 am Comment from: silverhawk

@Touch
Perfect ad placement! Thanks for finding it.

Nov 21, 07 - 10:44 am Comment from: SteveRey

I Love my AppleTV. I use it one my the primary A/V system in my house. I can show pictures with ease on my LCD television and I have visual control over all my music. Sometimes I'll miss recording one of my favorite shows and it's great to download it from iTunes and watch it on my large LCD. To go w/out an AppleTV would be simular to switching back to a regular phone instead of my iPhone or watching TV w/out a DVR.

The correct setup? Isn't it a bit presumptuous to suggest that people who have no use for the AppleTV have a "wrong" setup in their home?

I have a Mac connected to my home theater system- what purpose would an AppleTV serve me? Oh, wait- I could turn that on instead of the Mac that would sit right next to it. That would be useful.

All sarcasm aside, when the AppleTV offers a DVR solution, it will become a much more compelling product. As long as it just replays media that's already on my Mac, it offers no new features for me.

He hardly mentions the iPhone in the article.

Nov 21, 07 - 10:59 am Comment from: Big Al

2 Apple TV's serve music, photos, TV shows and over 300 movies to the 2 HDTV's in our house.

They work flawlessly and we wouldn't give them up for any swiss army knife, do everything not very well, Microsoft, Sony or HP powered piece of crap.

If The Studios weren't involved in a power play with Apple, Apple TV would have been The Next Big Thing.

I have all may kids shows and movies ripped and on my apple TV and it is so easy for my kids to just turn it on and watch what they want - Finally no scratched DVDs. Woo Hoo - I want to hook one up to the video system in my car so they can have all the programming at their fingertips.. It really is a great simple device.

Apple TV is not selling but I wouldn't say it is dead in the water. It is for Apple to add some little things here and there (movie rental, HD content) and it will take off. It's just a matter of time. Perhaps Macworld '08 will reveal new aspects of this product.

Another thing to consider: Lots of products launched by Apple have failed; such as the Newton, or the cube. That didn't mean Apple gave on selling gadgets (iPhone) and computers... if Apple TV is really doomed, then Apple will come back with an evolution of it, and will make NOISE !!!

Nov 21, 07 - 11:03 am Comment from: critic

@Touch
It would have achieved large sales immediately if it had DVR capabilities from the start.

If it would have sold in significant numbers, Apple would have more leverage with content providers to get more, high quality content onto iTMS.

This is one case where we see the downside to SJ's "vision". HE doesn't think it should have DVR, so it doesn't, even though it is clear that is what the customer wants.

Note to SJ: The customer actually does sometimes know what he wants.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:10 am Comment from: Dasgeek

The problem with DVR is that yo need to have content to record. In my area over the air is pitiful and the cable company does not offer a reasonable deal on cable cards. I have an Elgato DVR and I never use it. I do not agree that the DVR is the missing component.

AppleTV and iTunes need movie rentals and at DVD quality.

iThink the AppleTV is great - but iTunes lacks movie content. This could be fixed if the AppleTV had a dvd player on it (that would have been awesome!), or by iTunes having movies available in HD for rent (even better if the price is right). As it stands, it lacks only in delivery of movies.

Not to bash MDNs take... but... I can't see Apple TV in any way shape or form do the following - "Apple TV and Apple could replace a sizable chunk of cable subscriptions". That is laughable is more ways than one. I don't know of anyone that has a TV just for sitcoms... The Television combined with Cable/Sat is much more powerful than just Movies and sitcoms. I think everyone is missing the point of what the Apple TV is suppose to do. It does exactly what it is advertised to do and I love mine. Would I buy shows from Itunes? No, I just download from Lime Wire and watch on my 23" monitor. No more searching for DVDs or CDs in my 200 disc jukebox. All on Apple TV. Would I ever cancel my HD cable service becasue Apple changed what their device? Sure, when Apple is going to give me my House phone, Internet Access, and offer as many channels as my my cable service provider. Perhaps you should rethink that comment, MDN.

DVR, DVR, DVR!

Can it be any clearer? The Apple TV desperately needs DVR, or most people won't even consider it. Without DVR, most don't even know what it is.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:46 am Comment from: MikeK

@Critic (regarding DVR)

You're right SJ doesn't think Apple TV needs a DVR, and he's right... You have to understand where Apple/Jobs are coming from with Apple Tv. It's not a product meant to compete with DVD players and Tivo boxes, it's an enitrely new business model.. He sees "on demand" as the future, buy what you want, when you want it.

Apple sells content via iTunes, so it only makes sense that they are not going to release a product that records for free the same content that they want you to buy..

DVR's only give strength to the concept of cable and network television. Steve Jobs sees a future without Cable and network television.

Will it happen? Who knows, there is still a long way to go, but Apple TV is the first Apple released device that aligns with that future vision of content on demand.

@Ampar (regarding built in DVD player)

Apple tv is a new business model with hopes of killing physical media. It's all about digital media. Much like there are no CD players on an iPod, there should be no DVD players on Apple TV. We are reaching a point where the need for physical media and optical drives will become extinct. With iPods, iPhones, Apple TV and other devices there will no longer be a need for them.

The Blu-ray vs. HD-Dvd war will be stillborn before a winner is ever declared, the future is digital, not optical..

Apple will be the first to remove optical readers from it's computers.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:47 am Comment from: critic

"I have all may kids shows and movies ripped and on my apple TV and it is so easy for my kids to just turn it on and watch what they want - Finally no scratched DVDs."

Question. I don't have any CD's ripped to my computer. (I've been too lazy) What is the approximate file size for a typical movie?

Nov 21, 07 - 11:47 am Comment from: MrScrith

@critic

I think it's more a view of people having more then one TV in the house, Apple TV is designed to have a central location for the Storage of your media (mini with several 500gb firewire drives, add in eyetv for DVR functionality and with leopards shared desktop features (or VNC for those playing it Tiger) you have your media server) and a multitude of locations actually using your content (including multiple Apple TV's and any other Mac's in the house if you have a shared movies folder).

I think it's a great idea and if I had the finances for it I'd have one, and a mini for storage/dvr. Until then it's my dream...

How can one equate poor sales to a poor product?

Zune... ok I take that back.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:48 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

The TV is certainly a 1.0 product. It's ALMOST there on some levels.

At this point, Mac mini with an external hard drive and wireless keyboard/mouse seems like a FAR better solution than TV.

Maybe they'll merge the mac mini, an Airport Extreme and TV. THAT could be a nice thing. Call it the Mac3 (as in cubed)... the Mac mini Media Server?

Nov 21, 07 - 11:48 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

As TV goes digital and analog is turned off, the masses are NOT buying new TVs, but are getting set top boxes. AppleTV needs:

• a cable to downscale to current standard def TVs with choice of SCART or RCA connectors.
• the option of running without a computer i.e. purchase online
• subscriptions/rentals
• cheap single TV shows, and not the expensive ones we are starting to see at $2-4 per show
• an Apple network 'aggregator' of channels so we can subscribe to a theme we like
• VideoCast channels
• USB-based DVD, USB-based BlueRay, USB-based free-to-air tuner options, USB-based external drive, USB-based
• plus web surfing, iChat, games would be nice
• HD option

I have just purchased an Apple TV (Purchased it from the refurbished site and received brand new unit, could Apple be dumping to clear inventory?).

The only problem I have had and I am not the only one is the lag time from when I press a button on the remote till the Apple TV reacts, some times 30+ seconds. My guess is Apple has the OS set to spin down the HD to save power and I am having to wait for it to spin back up. HD content on iTunes would be nice.

I also have the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive (or should I say had, it died on me last week after 10 months, I called MS and was informed that because it is an accessory it only has a 90 day warranty WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!! This is a $200 piece of hardware not a $40 controller. I see why it was rated the way it is.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:54 am Comment from: MrScrith

@critic

Filesizes: around 800mg - 1gb for a full length movie encoded for the Apple TV using h.264 and stereo AAC for audio. (not sure what size is with 5.1 channel surround audio)

Considering a 500gb firewire drive is available from Apple stores for approx $220 and you have you're entire video collection on a hard drive (unless you have more then 500 movies in your collection, in which case can I be your friend?)

The iMac is welcomed in my living room.
So I did not buy the AppleTV.
Besides, I don't have all that much space.

One excellent device is better then five good devices.

The convergence of technologies for computers, televisions, phones, music players are still in evolution.

TV look more like montiors, montiors that have high def tv ready... Apple sees this melting point I hope. Yet, with all these sub-products and devices I figure people just love to be complicated.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:56 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Hey Mackerel.

Look at your list. You want a Mac connected to your TV. Just do it.

People are ABSOLUTELY buying new TVs;. They're really waiting for the Blu-ray HD DVD debacle to settle before buying Blu-ray players is vast numbers ;^).

DOWN-sampling is NOT where things are going. People are replacing their old low-res TVs with Full-HD. That's such a Microsoft way off thinking. Cripple your product by supporting everything that was ever made for the past 20 years.

Apple is smart. You gotta cut loose the old stuff and move on. Where would Apple be if they had stuck with floppies, ADB, Serial and SCSI ports? Microsoft still supports parallel, separate keyboard and mouse ports and who knows what else... look where Vista is at today.

Legacy support holds you back. Cut the old loose. Feel a little pain today... feel free tomorrow.

Apple TV needs to be controlled by iphone. For that matter so does remote desktop.

Nov 21, 07 - 12:04 pm Comment from: critic

@MikeK

The problem is that people DO have cable service and DVRs. Also, most people (at least in my area in the northeast) have combined service for telephone, cable, and data. That means that cable television is not going to go away.

The Apple TV, in terms of selling content, is much more attractive for movies and music (which are purchased as discrete items already) than it is for TV shows. In addition, iTMS will NEVER have every show that you can get on cable, and people don't want to pay for every individual show every time they turn on the TV, and they never will.

I can see why Apple wouldn't put in a DVD drive, but cable TVs and DVRs are here to stay for the time being. Apple shouldn't ignore that.

i think the movie studios are afraid of giving apple another monopoly... which is too bad because the apple tv really is the ipod for video content.

to have the apple tv really take off, apple should allow it to play all forms of video formats like avi... they crippled the apple tv to give the itunes movie store a chance and to attract the major studios... now that many AREN'T playing ball... apple should allow any content to play on the apple tv without the conversion hassle... then when people flock to downloading illegal versions of HD movies, just see how many DVDs the big studios can sell...

then like the mp3 and the ipod, when everyone has an apple tv loaded with 100s of gigs of video content, the studios will come knocking on apple's door with their bats and mitts and their tails between their legs... asking jobs to save the movie industry as well!

Nov 21, 07 - 12:18 pm Comment from: Jubei

Well I'm buying an Apple TV this Christmas. I like the ease of setup and simplicity. Plus its going to be upgraded via firmware by Apple.

Nov 21, 07 - 12:38 pm Comment from: MikeK

@Critic

"I can see why Apple wouldn't put in a DVD drive, but cable TVs and DVRs are here to stay for the time being. Apple shouldn't ignore that."


Apple aren't ignoring it, they are trying to create an alternative to it.

Nov 21, 07 - 12:46 pm Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

The Apple TV is not a bad product, but if it is going to succeed, it needs some serious new functionality. Like true HD, DVR, etc. Quite frankly I'm disappointed how Apple has neglected this thing, especially a product with so much potential. I expected more. I hope Apple won't decide to come up with a new version that makes this one obsolete - I would have some serious issues with Apple as a result. Yeah you can scream early adopter but if the thing was supposed to do more, where's the functionality?

DVR will make the Apple TV the product that it wants to be. Its an amazing device right now but the "killer feature" thats missing is DVR.

Two out of three isn't bad!

And for my part, if I truly understood just what Apple TV could do for me... it might be three out of three!

For example, if Apple TV was able to transmit a movie from my collection of film (i.e porn) from my Mac desktop in my office to my bedroom's tv (two rooms removed) without waking up my desktop... now that would be a winner!

The other issue is if one has Apple TV do we also have to have the new Apple Wireless device?

I guess Apple needs to do a better job of explaining the application and usage.

Nov 21, 07 - 01:20 pm Comment from: Lurker_PC

The Mac Pro also accommodates up to four optical drives and up to 3 terabytes of media storage.

4 Optical Drives??? I count two places for a CD/DVD drive. They can't be talking about external drives.

Peace.

I find it interesting no one has mentioned how poorly Front Row (and iTunes for that matter) are at managing one's movie catalogue.

One is left with a ridiculously long list of movies, which is no way to manage or view one's movie collection. I've found the best way to manage them is to create sub folders in my Movies folder, and not put anything in iTunes (perhaps there are better ways?)

iTunes (and/or Front Row) should be managing films like they manage music - with various categories and sub-categories.

Nov 21, 07 - 01:31 pm Comment from: smackman

I am so tired of people ripping on the Apple TV. I have one...I love it...use it everynight. I have my entire DVD collection (and that is a lot) Handbraked to my LaCie Drive and I stream it off my iTunes. I love it. Plus...all you Apple TV haters out there get a load of this news item for TUAW:
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/11/21/yet-even-more-evidence-of-upcoming-itunes-rentals/

Rentals baby!!!!!!

IMHO, the Apple TV is worthless until it can play 1080p content. Furthermore, without the ability to record 1080p content like a DVR, it is also useless to many, many, many people. Until Apple corrects these problems, lots of people will be purchasing other devices.

Nov 21, 07 - 02:11 pm Comment from: Cognomen

@seriously
I really don't understand why the acceptance of Apple TV's capabilities is so difficult to live with. The Apple TV does exactly what it says on the tin and gives my 8 year old and 18 year old grandsons, together with their father and their grandparents hours of fun trawling through YouTube - and that's just one example.

If you want true "Hi Def Everything" then obviously Apple TV is not the answer but classifying it as "worthless" is a bit extreme.

All I know is that for an instantaneous photo album for visitors and the occasional film, music feed through my sound system, the sheer joy of doing all this out of a box so small, Apple TV is a fine piece of domestic electronics.

Nov 21, 07 - 02:43 pm Comment from: shen

interesting.

we have an Apple TV and the kids love it, and so do i. saving me a fortune over what i was paying for cable and we still watch exactly the same shows....

Nov 21, 07 - 03:28 pm Comment from: MikeK

@ Seriously "IMHO, the Apple TV is worthless until it can play 1080p content."

---------------------

That's a strange comment considering there are only about 10 different consumer devices (blu-ray and Hd-dvd players) that can currently be purchased that are capable of 1080p playback in the entire world of electronics. And out of those Hi-Def players some only playback at 1080i

You're saying everything else is worthless?

All Apple TV needs to succeed is a MOVIE RENTAL MODEL on iTUNES.

People are not willing to BUY every single TV episode and movie they want to download.

Give them a monthly subscription option, and Apple TV will start flying off the shelves.

This will make far more of a difference than a DVR option.

>MacDailyNews Take: Apple TV itself isn't to blame. The box is just sitting there waiting...

Well maybe Apple TV isn't to blame... but Apple is. There are a handful of things it should have that make it not worth buying (see above posts about DVR functionality and 1080p playback).

And yep... it is just sitting there.. because it's suffering from poor planning and design.

Fix a couple of things and add those missing features and Apple has a winner. Otherwise, it's just a solution looking for a problem.

Nov 21, 07 - 04:34 pm Comment from: smackman

Sorry, sorry, just have to rant a bit.

@seriously

Comparing the Apple TV to another device on the DVR thing is just rediculous. This is NOT intended to be a DVR. This is a forward thinking device that is meant to deliver INTERNET CONTENT to your flat panel.

Sorry to be so "in your grill" about this, but this has got to be the most misuderstood product in the history of Apple. Trust me, when (not if) the day comes when I can pay a montly fee and have hi-def movies downloaded to my Apple TV in an all-you-can-eat basis, those people who smite the Apple TV will be eating a lot of crow.

End of line

>smackman wrote: This is NOT intended to be a DVR.

That's one of the reasons it sits on Apple's shelves.

People already have many forward-thinking devices that can play Internet-sourced Content. The general consensus is that those devices do a better job at it and/or Apple TV doesn't do enough more than those devices to warrant buying it.

A couple of tweaks to Apple TV - DVR functionality in particular - and that thing can become the next gem in Apple's stable of great products.

---

>This is NOT intended to be a DVR.

Hopefully Apple goes back to the drawing boards and INTENDS Apple TV to be something consumers actually want.

They have the list inverted don't they?
http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

I have 2 and love them. Best way to get my itunes music library to plug right into my stereo. Sounds great. Also watch the pictures of the kids drift by on the lcd tv. whats not to like?
Higher def movies and tv will come but it delivers most of what I want it for right now.
I like it as their hobby.

"Apple TV itself isn't to blame."

Untrue! It is a piece of crap.

No Blu-Ray disk, no DVR capability, no 1080p capability.

It deserves the disrespect that it is receiving.

Get your nose out of Apple's ass MDN. Call this dog a dog.

Nov 21, 07 - 11:36 pm Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

To those that are calling Apple TV "crap", "shit", or whatever, let's take a few steps back and call it what it is - an incomplete product with lots of potential that is not being marketed correctly. As I said, I am disappointed in this product, and I expect to hear something soon (perhaps at Macworld) that gives cause for hope. If not, one has to wonder if there is a future for this device, particularly in its current state. Upgrades to features and functionality are sorely needed. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves by writing it off as crap.