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Take out chips used to power Macs, and the free fall of PC sales is even greater.

The neat part of this, is that the news that Mac sales continue to grow, while PC sales decline, will cause still more switching.

Go Apple! I continue to be baffled by the logic of buying cheap when shopping for a computer. Who would search for the cheapest microwave/oven/dish washer/TV/etc? When shopping for those items, people look for quality because they don't want to be replacing it again soon. Computers are far more complex, if they only applied the same logic.

I saw the eee PC this weekend at Target. It was $249 and looked like it wasn't worth anymore than $99. Of course there wasn't one you could actually use on display. Sad.

Feb 16, 09 - 02:36 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

coolfactor...
"Who would search for the cheapest microwave/oven/dish washer/TV/etc?"

You'd be surprised. For many, just being able to say you have something is more important than how good it is, how well it performs or how long it will last.

Something that I have to replace is an expensive item.

I have to say, I played with a HP 100 netbook at Costco the other day, and I found the keyboard to be fine for responding to a e-mail and doing some simple excel stuff. i.e. a few paragraphs, or a few column spreadsheet.
Clearly not a main computer, but for on the road or on vacation Although the Iphone can do many of these things, It IS expensive. i.e. the AT&T;contract.

What if Apple were to put out an IPod touch grande (i.e 8.9" or 10" screeen with with a keyboard?
Apple would still see revenue from the App Store, and maybe an Iworks App as well bundle that with 1/2 price of mobile me for the first year, and it could be a moneymaker.

Competition? Yes - but from Google. Imagine a netbook with all google apps, It could work as a 'netbook'

Feb 16, 09 - 02:41 pm Comment from: Demon

The Netbook is an economic Fad and not a long term trend. The Netbook would have died this holiday season if the economy had been better and if Vista had not sucked so badly. But, the facts are Vista bite the big one hard and the economy sucked too. which gave customers looking to buy their last PC with Windows XP, While due to MS on again off again General and OEM XP available about the only real consistent consumer choice for XP has been the Netbooks and to the Netbooks they the customers have gone. Once they had it and used it many returned them and go buy a Mac.

Feb 16, 09 - 03:14 pm Comment from: mackle

must be a slow day. thread hijacked by a pop-up discussion. back on topic:

this is not about netbooks and their functionality, this is about being at the cusp of the personal computer market as we used to know it. apple probably has it most right of all the computer companies (not calling themselves a computer company is a good start). if anyone out there still reads books, read "blue ocean strategy". i'm sure it's on steve jobs bookshelf, and i hope it is on tim cook's. if you are pressed for time read this hbr article:

http://www.courtenayhr.com/images/Blue Ocean Strategy.pdf

the authors studied 100 years of companies failing. not the typical revisionists who conveniently find 3 companies that match their theory, but resolved the data into some basic truths.

1) if you don't change (no matter how dominant you are) you are dead and don't know it. are ms and dell listening?

2) competing in a defined, contested market (like computers) is destined for failure. you can parlay that failure if you take your money out early and run, but you will loose all you gained by staying in as it falls (again, is dell listening?)

they concluded that long term survival is about re-invention. circque re-invented the circus. apple re-invented the mp3 player, and some would argue are re-inventing the computer right under our noses. they are repeatedly showing the world that you don't have to be the absolute first, just the absolute best. most of their product list follows that definition. some famous failures, like the newton, were just a little ahead of their time.

red ocean (the opposite of blue ocean) is about price competition and racing to zero. apple is engaged value competition, where you value the premium instead of race to zero. the false assumption of dell and the like was that volume made up for declining margins. that works only in an expanding market. that's why these companies are in so much pain now. contracting markets make that equation invalid. the assumption that the 3rd world will come in and save the day is also a fairy tale. where does the wealth come from for them if their is not first world to buy their products in an expanding fashion?

http://www.blueoceanstrategy.com

Feb 16, 09 - 03:35 pm Comment from: iSteve

The netbook has been low-quality hardware with a marginal OS at a low entry cost. They access the internet for web browsing, and email. The iPod touch, at $229-$399, meets this definition. The iPod touch, unlike netbooks, requires a commputer for set up . Free the touch from a host computer and you've got a better netbook than anything on the market.

We will see Apple redefine the netbook category. They will do it in a way that does not sabotage MacBook/Mac mini/iMac sales. It will be somewhere between the iPod touch and MacBook in price and functionality. It will not have firewire but will have a glossy screen. It will be revolutionary and everyone will realize later how simple the solution is.

Those who need a notebook will still get a notebook. Some with 15"/17" MacBooks may also get the new inetbook because it offers increased portability (though with less functionality).

This product will have Apple's quality and profit margins.

Feb 16, 09 - 03:44 pm Comment from: ecrabb

@mackle, Interesting stuff - thanks for posting!

I think some of this computer purchasing slowdown can also be attributed to the fact that machines just aren't substantially different from year to year like they used to be. Back in the day (5 years ago), the speed of new computers would increase substantially from year to year. Not so much anymore.

My nearly 2.5 year old 2.33 17" MacBook Pro is nearly as good of a machine as the new MBP performance-wise. If it weren't for the new unibody construction, better battery, better display, I wouldn't even be interested. The 2.66 ghz processor and a bigger hard drive just wouldn't be big enough motivators.

That's most PC hardware, though. No motivation to upgrade. Just the same thing, year after year, but with a new processor and more memory and bigger hard drive. Whoop de doo.

Netbooks are here to stay... they will not die... who doesn't want a small machine?

More powerful ones will come...... gotta love my souped up iBook G4

Perfect set up:
Netbook for on the go.
Desktop for at home.

MDN - people that are buying inexpensive netbooks are not Apple computer customers and never will be.
And guess who is making all the processors for the Netbooks? The same company that is making the processors for all Apple Computers.

It is the form factor that is of so much interest to me. I would love notebook with a keyboard that is as small as the netbooks. The people buying these just need a very basic computer in a size that is easier to carry. The iPhone/Touch is almost perfect but a little too small and with no keyboard. If the Touch was about twice as large (Touch Grande) I think that might be perfect as long as it had a USB port and a web-cam. SKYPE

Feb 16, 09 - 09:34 pm Comment from: Predrag

Don't even think for a moment that the Netbook purchasers are buying them as second or third computers. Netbooks are being bought by people who don't have a computer, or those who are replacing 8-year old 500Mhz Intel Pentium II desktop machine with a brand new laptop. Imagine, they now cost $350!! Let's get one; it sure must be faster than the old clunker in the family room, and it's a laptop, together with a built-in mic and a webcam! How amazing is that?

Netbooks are taking the customers away from full-size cheap laptops. They aren't additional computers; they're becoming main computers for people with little money (those living on less than $40k per year).

saw a LOT of really nice netbooks here in Shanghai over the weekend (picked up a new cellphone)...

I will say, the companies like Samsung, etc have got some nice designs but

a) they're strapped to Windows and
b) these things are for women, not men.

Intellectually, "Mike," I know a lot of women who can kick your butt.

I remember when Dvorak said the iBook was "for girls."

The Rush Limbaugh of technology is also a sexist pig.

@ mike

"these things are for women, not men."

i can't believe how sexist that is...

"Who would search for the cheapest microwave/oven/dish washer/TV/etc?"

And how many microseconds of a day do you spend interfacing with their controls? ..1 minute? 2 minutes?

And on a PC/Mac for work and home? 3,600 minutes? More?

Slight difference in which you should pay more attention to.

I'm tickled to death with my lenovo s10 ideapad running os x 10.5.6 (and yes, I own my own copy of leopard). 95% of its features work with mac, and it's small, sturdy portable and cheap. I call it my hackbook air. I would compare it's 10" led backlit screen favorably with the unibody macbooks.

And it's atom processor is more than adequate for browsing, emails, word processing, etc. Its g card gets as good or better reception than the n card in my unibody MBP. It compares favorably, especially considering price, with the 1st gen MBA. It even comes with an SD card reader and a 3/4 express card slot. It's relatively easy to hack the msi wind, lenovo s10 and dell mini 9 to run osx with little or no problems.

Apple had a record quarter despite the bad economy, yes. But if it's going to stay as bad as experts are predicting, for as long as they're thinking, Apple may soon wish that they competed for a few of these scraps.

I'm beginning to believe that most laptops and desktops are way overpowered for how most people use them on a daily basis. Before the intel switch, what I liked about macs is how a lot of people I knew who weren't using photoshop for a living were more than content and satisified to be using three or four year old machines without a second thought. Since the switch to intel, apple has succumbed to the bigger, faster, gotta replace my rig every six months pee cee mentality.

Feb 17, 09 - 12:53 pm Comment from: qka

@ mackle

Thanks for the links!

@ BlackMac

Know what you mean. My wife loves her 12" PowerBook G4 more than here 15" MacBook (pre Unibody)

Feb 17, 09 - 12:55 pm Comment from: qka

err, make that 15" MacBook PRO.

That MacBook and MacBook Pro naming is so fscking retarded compared to the old iBook and PowerBook names.

May 11, 09 - 09:46 am Comment from: Road Warrior

Thanks for the blue ocean red ocean strategy. It's a nice translation from the Tao Te Ching (Yin Yan) conceptualization, and has connections with the popular paradigm shift concept a while back, and evolution, quantum mechanics and so on.

Most of these modes of harmony though are lost on mainstream Western organizations when it comes to overall economy and thus end up as fads because of some core beliefs or undertones that are still held.

I recently attended a talk held by a blue ocean strategist. Within a few minutes of his presentation he said that the approach was something the could be learned. I raised my hand and pointed out it was something to be relearned, for most people once knew this, it has been drummed out of most of us through school and our western socialization process.

The guy knew his stuff fortunately, he agreed, pointed out the context and pointed out some research very similar to the stuff I had access to decades ago. It changed the approach of his talk that's for sure as we are a blue ocean organization.

However until there is a harmony between ecology and economy none of these systems will have the endurance of something like the Tao Te Ching.

We might be at peace when the blue ocean arrives, or we can stain it red with the blood of many, but the ocean is coming one way or another. It isn't global warming, it's global drowning.

One recent topic here: "Thinner and lighter $800 MacBook could renew Apple’s assault on Windows market share".

There is no assault on Windows market share nor should there be. Apple for the most part has been on a blue ocean strategy for a long time, and laughed at for a long time. The stupid lemming journanalysts want Apple to jump into the red ocean strategy, it's so part of the Western culture. They have simply lost the awareness of harmony, preferring power, greed, fear, war...that bloody red ocean stuff.

The netbook, probably a good idea...until everyone and their dog tries to compete with it. Not unlike having a town that does market research to show that 20 restaurants will suit the town nicely, so they allow 40 to be built and leave it to market forces.

Apple's idea from the start has fortunately never had any competition (IBM came close with OS Warp), to take charge of the hardware and software. Unification and harmonization, rather than divide and conquer the Windoze way.

Time will tell.