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Jan 12, 09 - 12:10 pm Comment from: Kahuna Dude

I don't get why everybody is so excited about touch screen PC's. While it is definitely cool in a demo (or in a movie: Minority Report), how long before your arms become tired? It makes more sense when the display is laying flat on the table, but not sitting in front of you. I think a trackpad that acts as the touch-screen input makes much more sense. It is flat, and small; much more ergo friendly to a humans arm!

Jan 12, 09 - 12:12 pm Comment from: Tommyr

Personally I couldn't care less about touch screens.

I believe that PCs with touch screen are going to be a huge success.... the problem is that no body will use it.
In the windows world, people buys for what microsoft promises, no for what they deliver. So they but even if they can not use that feature. I really don't this microsoft will do it fine in the multitouch with out breaking some patents. There is no real applications for multitouch in the PC world, just fantasies.

The multitouch trackpad from apple is exactly what we need, nothing more.

Follow MDN's link to "gorilla arm" and keep following and you eventually end up at Eric Raymond's site in the "Jargon File". Poking around at ESR's I just found his most recent blog entry, which is quite amusing for any non-Windows user:

****

Master Foo and the Nervous Novice

There was a novice who learned much at the Master’s feet, but felt something to be missing. After meditating on his doubts for some time, he found the courage to approach Master Foo about his problem.

“Master Foo,” he asked “why do Unix users not employ antivirus programs? And defragmentors? And malware cleaners?”

Master Foo smiled, and said “When your house is well constructed, there is no need to add pillars to keep the roof in place.”

The novice replied “Would it not be better to use these things anyway, just to be certain?”

Master Foo reached for a nearby ball of string, and began wrapping it around the novice’s feet.

“What are you doing?” the novice asked in surprise.

Master Foo replied simply: “Tying your shoes.”

Upon hearing this, the novice was enlightened.

****

http://esr.ibiblio.org/

I think Apple is moving toward a high resolution touch pad that has customizable images on it. That makes a lot of sense and could add value to software by making it easier to use or by making complicated things simpler.

I think many years from now when touch screens are super affordable they'll be on things like refrigerators, but that's a long way off. And I don't think they'll ever be used as something to replace the mouse/trackpads.

I imagine there are touch screen iMacs in Cupertino right now doing a lot of neat things, but there's also somebody (Steve, perhaps?) saying, "This isn't an improvement."

Jan 12, 09 - 12:27 pm Comment from: loganson

Remember the scenes from the movie Minority Report, which some believe have inspired some of this tech. Notice that the user is standing and waving their arms at full length. They are also twisting and shoving things. Not the type of work you want to do for 8 hours straight.

Keep the touch screen small and it becomes practical.

Shssssss! Be quiet! Let them invest where they want to!

Why would I want to sit at my desk all day, hold my arm up at the level of my head, and move stuff around on my iMac's screen?

Sure, there may be many uses for touch screens, but for most of us, writing email, browsing, word processing, managing digital photos, etc., a touch screen is not practical.

I think a touch keyboard or touch pad to replace a mouse would be more useful. Something which can change based on the app you're using. So the touch pad could have slider controls for GarageBand and work like a typical mouse/touchpad when in Pages or Word.

Jan 12, 09 - 12:31 pm Comment from: HMCIV

Clueless? I have trouble resolving the conflicting images of Steve Ballmer and Alicia Silverstone in my head.

What ever happened to the big ass table?

Jan 12, 09 - 12:34 pm Comment from: deepdish

funniest thing I have seen/overheard in a long time. I was at Best Buy this weekend and overheard two people. One was a guy enthusiastically explaining the "Big Ass Table" from MS to a lady.

The crap that was coming out his mouth and her incomprehension gave me a smile all day long.

Jan 12, 09 - 12:49 pm Comment from: ron

Make a touch tablet as part of the keyboard - - Oh wait!!

This guy's solution for MS's problems is for them to fire everybody over 35... Steve Jobs is in his 50's. Ive's is in his 40's ... No I don't think it's a generational issue... and that was just a generationally divisive comment to excite his Millenial "base".

Microsoft is both clueless *and* evil. Stealing ideas and claiming them to be your own, and engaging in legally prohibited anti-competitive activity to "crush" your competitor *is* evil.

The proper word at this time might be "desperate". The phrases "grasping at straws" and "running out of ideas" also come to mind. It's no surprise they're investing in that Israeli startup. Microsoft has major development centers there, and "Silicon Wadi" generates lots of ideas and new technology. Some succeed spectacularly well - the keychain drive, for example - while others like this iteration of "touch" merit more skepticism.

Put even so much as a smear on my screen and i will snap your fingers! You see how dirty the iphone can get in a small period of time but at least a rub on the jeans cures that problem..

Agreed, think this will be for a very niche market.

Here's the way I see it... I'll wait unit Apple comes out with THIER version of touch screen, netbook, tablet, etc. Then it'll be right. They're not going to come out with something just that "kinda works" - It'll make sense. You're arms won't get tired and whatever it is- it'll be secure, accurate, responsive and best of all- useful. I think once Snow is out- both the netbook and some type if touch interface for the desktop will be part of Apple's lineup. This isn't fanboy rhetoric, I'm just going by past history... i.e ClickWheel, MultiTouch, etc.

Jan 12, 09 - 01:22 pm Comment from: KingMel

Even using small touchscreens, such as the iPod touch or the iPhone, can get tiring after a short while. Touch interfaces should be employed when they add value and make sense. In general, I do not believe that touch technology on a vertical display makes much sense an a frequent human interface when there are better alternatives such as the mouse and the trackpad.

There are instances in which touch technology on a vertical display are viable, and they are related to intermittent, short-duration tasks such as kiosks, ticketing, etc. There may be a few instances that apply to niches in the general computing market, but none come readily to mind.

Jan 12, 09 - 01:24 pm Comment from: Crabs

I like the idea of a tilt/swivel screen. So when you want to use the mouse, you leave it vertical, but when you want to use the touch screen, it slides down to about a 20 degree angle so you avoid the gorilla arm issue.

Jan 12, 09 - 01:25 pm Comment from: John E

where touchscreens will work:

big ones on the wall like a whiteboard, mainly for displays, presentations and demos, just like a blackboard/whiteboard. think: classroom, meeting room.

big ones laid flat for interactive displays (like the MS table, only simpler).

tablets laid flat like a netbook for media and "light" computing.

handheld devices of all kinds.

where they don't work:

as conventional computer displays (terrible ergonomics).

clamshell laptop displays (terrible ergonomics).

televisions.

Jan 12, 09 - 01:25 pm Comment from: MacRaven

or... "Monkey Arm" in Ballmer's case.

"[...] but for most of us, writing email, browsing, word processing, managing digital photos, etc., a touch screen is not practical."

Unless it's on an iPhone--then it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Touch-screens have their place where desktop real-estate is small or non-existent. Currently, touch screens have a lock on kiosks for just that reason. Other places where touch screens could prove useful would be in small laptops. Imagine the laptop that you just place on the tray-table in coach and use and you don't have to worry about the person in front of you putting their seat back.

Yeah that's what ever hard core gamer wants; rather than pushing a button or moving the mouse to move their hand across a 30" screen while their arm blocks the view of the action. Plus every parent is going to want their kids smearing up the screen.

Jan 12, 09 - 01:31 pm Comment from: thethirdshoe

@Viktor - "I believe that PCs with touch screen are going to be a huge success.... the problem is that no body will use it."

Did not do well in logic. It's not a huge success if no body uses it...

thethirdshoe,

and you don't do too well in comprehension, do you?

Viktor was being ironical!

Jan 12, 09 - 01:46 pm Comment from: Predrag

I will say this again, as I've been saying it every time this topic comes up. Implementing touchscreen with existing computing ergonomics (verticaly positioned monitor, about a 1 metre away from user's eyes) obviously invites the gorilla arm syndrome.

However, I'm convinced that Apple will eventually unleash a proper, completely intuitive, completely revolutionary, full-size touch-screen computing concept which will permanently displace a separate keyboard and mouse for majority of users. Much like the iPhone, the device will adapt screen surfaces for touch imput. Unlike an ordinary monitor. this one will lie on your desk. User will work with it in the most intuitive way; much like what one does when one sits at a desk and writes, draws and in other way interacts with physical objects by touching them.

All other hardware/software makers will be trying to implement touch on their display technology buy bolting some (multi)touch interface on top of Windows and within the existing concept of vertically-positioned monitors (causing the Gorilla Arm). Eventually, Apple will waltz in and shift the paradigm.

I hate when people touch my screen and leave greasy marks on it, especially glossy screen.
Now, why would I do it to myself?

Anyway, I will drop APPL and buy Windex shares

Jan 12, 09 - 01:56 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

Go ahead MAC. Sit on the sidelines while Microsoft reaps the benefits of wildly successful touch screnn computing. Just as Zune cleaned the I-Pod's clock with the innovative FM radio and the fun Zune points system, they are going to out-innovate MAC with their imaginative touch features.

Some of the apps on the drawing board in Redmond include a 'booger flick' app and a 'scratch the itch' app. They're working the kinks out of the 'pick a scab' app. Anything you can do with your finger you will be able to do on screen. It's brilliant and it all runs on Windows.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Jan 12, 09 - 02:08 pm Comment from: An Optimist

Microsoft wasn't always clueless. They were a good software company thirty years ago. They started becoming clueless after the company released MS-DOS.

Jan 12, 09 - 02:37 pm Comment from: MacMan

What Apple needs to do is come out with a USB external trackpad for the rest of us desktop users. Why Mighty Mouse when a Trackpad would be SO much more efficient?

Jan 12, 09 - 02:45 pm Comment from: Crabs

ZT, too obvious. Tone it down a bit, you're going to let people know you're really a Mac fan

Jan 12, 09 - 02:51 pm Comment from: amyhre

So there will be a give someone the finger app and a virtual fingerbang app too, Zune Tang? Those are things I'd much rather do in person, but hey that's just me. I'm just a dumb "MAC user", unenlightened about the "real world" which apparently Windows users have a monopoly on, right? (Pun intended). What a crock!

Jan 12, 09 - 03:07 pm Comment from: Rainer

Hah - the touchscreen on every display is Mirosoft's answer to the Wii-Fit
They'll have a commercial with Bill Gates and the Incredible Hulk, shopping in a shoe-shop.
Oh wait, I mixed it up.
Anyway....

Yes, external trackpad!! I want one.

I've never used a mouse in three years.... until recently, because I got an ACD with an external keyboard (and have to close the laptop lit).
Boy, that sucks. Stupid mouse. Trackpad is so much easier and more precise.

Jan 12, 09 - 03:12 pm Comment from: Shadowself

What about the simplest deterrent to touch screens? They will get all smeared with use. Even people with the cleanest hands still have oils on their fingers. I you have touch screen computing you will either be cleaning your screen *several* times a day -- or live with a filthy, oil smeared screen.

Besides the "Minority Report" screens already exist (and the user does NOT touch the screen). The first one I saw in use in the real world was back in 2003. It's not strange that they have not caught on.

Jan 12, 09 - 04:24 pm Comment from: NCIceman

I think touch screens coming back are inevitable. Direct touching, in some applications, has an advantage over indirect (moving a pointer) touching.

Nice to see CNBC nail it, I prefer to get my financial news from them as well...

@ thethirdshoe

Viktor said, "I believe that PCs with touch screen are going to be a huge success.... the problem is that no body will use it."

And he's absolutely right. It will be a huge success because clueless Windows sufferers will say "COOL!" and buy up the Touchscreen Windows computers by the basketful.
That is success<i> from Microsoft's sales viewpoint, and that's all that matters to Microsoft.
The fact that the purchasers will use the touch screen for 10 minutes and never use it again does not factor in to the success of Microsoft's sales numbers.

Microsoft knows this.
This is how Microsoft works;
1. Promise a product that "is really going to work <i>this time".
2. Release crap that everyone buys on promise-not-substance.
3. Count the money.
- Repeat.

@The Muffin Man
"Ironical"?!
I hope you were being ironical.

Ooops! Sorry about the missing </i>.


MDN word: "problem".
Heh.

Jan 12, 09 - 04:53 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

Well I tend to disagree, there will be a market for the large tables, in fact make them larger. Moving objects across the table aside, go back before Minority Report, go back to those old war movies with the huge table maps of an invading force and the war makers up above gazing down at the movements from a god like perspective.

Remember this is an Israeli company, and one thing they are good at is war. There is even a small use of it in the remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still movie.

Don't be fooled by the cute entertainment demos of hotels and other single uses. Putting a bunch of these together in war rooms across the United States is what will be sending flag poles rising. One minute it will have a display showing off a map of the country, the next up close footage of a camera mounted at the tip of the missile, then back to the map of what is left of the country.

The beauty of it is that they won't have to sell that many of them, this is a corporate toy as of yet, not a consumer one.

Personally, I like something more like Johnny Mnemonic, there was depth to that interface, a more OUI (object user interface).

Great article Cliff.

I couldn't agree more with your assessment of touch screen technology. Certainly it's inconvenient and I can't imagine the rise in repetitive stress injuries caused by users constantly reaching to touch the screen.

For some period, I thought I was the only person that felt this way and wondered if I was missing something or not. A recent trip to Micro Center to play with H-P's touchscreen computers reinforced my thoughts.

Clearly voice recognition and character recognition are the cutting edge technologies with the most potential, if they could ever improve the efficiency of these technologies.

By the way, I'm a 57 year old guy that's been using Macs since 1986. So, no need to dispatch those over say 35. Just have them play with the technology and let real people play with these technologies to see if they are useful and efficient or not. Sometimes us old timers have good ideas !

Thanks again for a good article ... it's nice to know that I'm not wandering the technology desert all alone. LOL

I think Microsoft has got the idea of the touch screen from Apple/Nike partnership. They will come out with Microsoft/Nautilus 30" LCD display exercise machine: "Now move the mouse with your left hand 5 times left to right and back".

Well some people think that the touch system will catch on, but it takes an unreal amount of memory that Vista can't support as yet. My MacBook pro supports up to 8 GB of memory, where as in Boot Camp Windows only supports 3 GB. Some friends of mine who have bought the TouchSmart from HP have complained about video performance issues…go figure. Until we get true CPU/GPU integration (hopefully with Snow Leopard), systemwide integration of a touch input will be a ways off. A long way off.