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That's scary, having to do company business in your spare time without compensation or remuneration. Now if this time spent is completely voluntary, no problem. However, requiring workers to develop skills the business needs on their own time is unfair and unreasonable.

@maczealot

It's quite common though. Even sometimes requiring employees to attend extracurricular "training events" or "brainwashing events" on their own time. Oh, they provide food (if you can call it that) as "compensation", which is a load of bunk. Drive 45 minutes to a location on an OFF day to sit there for 4-5 hours of crap for some cruddy cold pizza. Yeah, that's worth it.

Unfair and unreasonable? To say the least.

Asking people to learn a new language is "unfair and unreasonable" ?

Do you not see the personal benefit to this? It's not like if you leave the company that learned skill is no longer relevant.

And God commanded: "the 5% of Apple users will influence and control the other 95%"

And it was done.

The National Gallery of Victoria Australia uses iPods for their exhibitions. Pretty cool to see dozens of people walking around looking at masters paintings and holding an iPod.

Groovy.

A professional keeps up with the latest developements in his or her profession, on his or her own, without remuneration.

If more people acted like professionals they might be surprised how quickly their extra work is rewarded.

My wife signed an employment contract with her employer that requires her to be in the office 50 hours per week (that number is mainly because the company founders work 60+ hours per week). That employer is paying 1/3 of her MBA. She typically has about 30 hours of work per week. The other 20 hours she spends studying, doing research, writing papers, creating presentations, and other class-related homework. For me this arrangement works well because I actually have some quality time with my wife at night. However she still has to attend 9 hours of classes each week.

maczealot who is being abused in that relationship? My wife or the employer?

Big Al,

I'm sure those fast food employees will see big pay raises after learning new skills on their own time – NOT! Who do you think you're kidding?

Twilightmoon,

Yes, it is unreasonable. If you need your employees to learn something new, you should be prepared to pay for that knowledge. This is America, and here you pay for things or you don't get them.

I'm in the sewage business. I'm handing out zunes.

No, no, all of what you say is fine. Keeping up with your profession, etc etc, on your own. I do all that, and many others do too. To require employees to attend long drawn-out propaganda events that benefit no one, on their own time, for no pay, is what is unfair. My statement had nothing to do with learning a new language or being reimbursed in other ways. Actually, my statement was narrowly focused at that one particular instance. There are many other examples where it would be completely worthwhile and acceptable, and not at all unfair. It's all about the context and the intent.

@chris : yep!

Anything that make you grow intelectually (I am not talking about "brain wash") should be welcomed even in your own time. It costs a lot to the company and, yes, it is for their own benefit. However, if you get well trained, it is excellent for you. It could become your intelectual prolerty, it goes directly to your very personal belongings and nobody can take it out of you.

Good, very good to learn a second language, new skills, new ways at seeing life or work. Ways of face at problems, etc. those thiks are unvaluable.

Chris
Fast food workers are paid, like many other fields, by the difficulty of the work, the difficulty learning the work, and the pool of available workers. America isn't like some places where doctors are considered "average" workers.

At one point the article says "in his free time", which doesn't always mean "off the clock", and even then, people have always been, through the deacdes, encouraged to further themselves by developing skills after hours.

Another way to look at this is "this is America, where you are paid for what you know"

signed
Former IBEW worker

To maczealot and chris: Good luck is your careers. Bettering yourselves without expectation of direct outside payment is part of professionalism, maturation, and life itself. I own an ad agency. My clients, who are my employers, did not pay me to go learn any of things I know. I have to bring those to the table before they even consider doing business with me. Whether it was studying the aspects of successful advertising, attending trade shows and seminars on my own time, teaching myself skills from general computer capabilities to db building, web design and hosting (1995), SQL, Photoshop and other CS apps, Final Cut Pro and the Studio Suite... my client's don't pay for this. My learning these things makes me more valuable to my clients, and keeps my business strong, and in the long run... profitable. If a client was to come to me with an iPod loaded with a Japanese language program and said, "Learn this because we have project for which you will need to speak Japanese" I would say, "Thanks for the opportunity!" first, and secondly, "Do I get to keep the iPod?" Opportunity is more valuable than money.

There is only ONE reason why some people "get ahead". That's because so many others don't even join the race. Peace.

To change the subject, a little, what was the pre-loaded software used on the iPod to learn Spanish? Or what would you recommend for an iPod nano or video?

Spark, Tommy Boy, et al are correct. Although Chris makes a valid point too about “motivational seminars,” etc. In the latter case, however, you cannot be compelled to such an event without pay (although some sleazy employers might try), so the argument is really quite moot.

In the case of unskilled fast food workers learning a second language, if they don’t, then their job just might go to some illegal alien who is bilingual. This is “America,” after all, land of the free market and all that. And speaking of America, or more accurately the United States, we are a land of people who mostly only know one spoken language; rest of the world is generally at least bilingual (if not multi-lingual).

In the 90's Apple regularly scheduled "training" during lunch periods, blew through breaks, etc... All under the guise that you were a "salaried employee" and this isn't a 40 hour work week. If it had been an hourly job they would've been shelling out about 10-20 hours of overtime to each and every employee and been in hot water for not giving proper breaks to their employees. A break is not time off one task to do another.

I doubt that this has changed, or that Apple is the only company in Corporate America that did or still does this.

My motto at work was "Always be worth more than you are making." I never asked for a raise in my life, and ended up when I retired 14 years ago at $248,000 per year. Left school at 15, came to the USA and loved it. Motto now-"Do it, your going to be dead a long time." Learn all you can and don't think the boss is screwing you all the time.

Only in America.

SB -- you're.

Ron -

Shouldn't you be squirting out zunes instead?

Spark:

Thanks for all your tips for career development. I spend at least 200 to 250 hours annually keeping up with the current literature and continuing education to keep myself apprised of the latest evidence-based methods of diagnosis, treatment, and monitoring parameters in my profession. This is my responsibility as a provider and my pleasure as a lifelong student. From my efforts, I am better able to objectively and scientifically provide the best possible care. I decide the relevance and practicality of the available educational material and published literature as well as how to integrate this information into my practice. Spark, when you become fluent in Japanese, please, let us know.

Tommy Boy:

Obviously, your wife decided that the long-term benefits to her career goals were greater than the short-term demands that her employer would compel her to obey. So what? Perhaps some individuals would consider these contractual agreements too restrictive or demanding. Would these persons be less professional or dedicated than your wife? In fact, maybe your wife could have found or negotiated a more favorable contract. I don’t think your point is relevant.

Spark and Tommy Boy:

I may be reading too much into your posts, but it seems that both of you think that the employer or client somehow knows better than you do how to develop a person’s own career. If you delegate your career development to someone else, you become his or her tool. I prefer to maintain my own independence when it comes to deciding how my career ought to develop. By definition, a professional should be able to think independently and not have someone else think for them. This doesn’t mean that I am not open to advice; it only means that I have the final say. Cheers.

This thread has little or nothing to do with the article.

maczealot, Chhris, Tommy Boy, Spark, et al: email each other or start a blog.

IMHO:

You are very perceptive. You earn a cookie!

.....Another way to look at this is "this is America, where you are paid for what you know".....

or who you know. doubts? try getting into Yale with a C average like our current President.

Thanks, malek - we almost got through an eight-hour thread without a political announcement.

yeah, malek, we almost made it. But don't forget he had a higher average than Kerry...

lol that's like saying 'my turd is smarter than your turd'

MDW: develop

To the smartest turd go the spoils.

IMHO, how does it feel knowing that whatever you post to complain about people it won't make a damned bit of difference? Perhaps you over estimate your ability to be the self-described moderator at MDN. By the way, what are your qualifications to preside over all who post here? May be that you need to get an iPod with some training tutorials how to exercise a command presence. Alternatively, you might consider an iPod with lessons how to deal with perpetual dissapointment.

way to go MDN, the new server feels snappy!

The Other Steve: i think you have to pay for most of the language courses which are available for the iPod. An alternative is free news podcasts. Par example, to keep my French in shape i subscribe to RFI:

iTunes link

and for German i use Deutsche Welle:

iTunes link

i am sure there are Spanish options as well.

good luck

TowerTone: how do you know they got a new server? They might have just rebooted the old machine.

It would be great if MDN invested in some new hardware and some better community features around here. It took years of pestering them to get a "most commented" section added so i am not going to hold my breath.

HAH! I never even noticed that.

I got a redirect or something last night . maybe they were just rebooting. maybe not

Doh! I think the real point of the article is that the iPod has many other uses other than just a music and video player. I have searched for a program for the iPod that does translation of English to Simplified Chinese and vise versa, but to no avail.

Ron
It's strange but that has always been my philosopy except that I always added the caveat:
"Always be worth more than you are paid,
and you will be a valuable employee.
The alternative is to be paid more than you are worth, and then you will be expendable.

Am I the only one to remember what happened when one of those National Semiconductor people quit? NS asked for "their" iPod back. They had neglected to mention that the iPods were "company property, for the employee's use, for job-related purposes". Quite a few employees had to go out and buy (back?) iPods - they'd sold the ones they were 'given' by NS. Oops!

As for lots of other comments, I've had several jobs where I was 'given' a laptop in case I needed to work from home - even when my typical office time exceeded 40 hours a week. I even had one job where I was told to get cable broadband because the company wouldn't "support" the DSL I'd been successfully using.

Could you help me. Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget us.
I am from Antigua and , too, and now am writing in English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "cheap airline tickets cheap airline tickets news read it at rss."

THX :-D, Rock.