“Should Microsoft fear Apple’s Macintosh? Maybe not quaking-in-your-boots scared, mind you, but Redmond should certainly be concerned,” Scot Finnie writes for Computerworld.
“I’ll tell you why. Apple has gotten smarter about how it competes with Microsoft. Clearly the underdog, Apple has to make moves that can be seen as both supportive of the Windows marketplace and good for its Mac customers at the same time,” Finnie writes.
Finnie writes, “The switch to Intel was just such a chess move. Intel hardware makes it easier for Microsoft to create apps for the Mac. It solves a performance problem Apple had. It creates a better experience for Intel-Mac owners because it better supports Windows applications. The CPU architecture also puts Mac and Windows hardware on an easy-to-understand, level playing field. Perhaps most significantly, though, all these advantages appeal to potentially millions of Mac-curious Windows users because it makes the Mac more familiar.”
“For the first time in its 23-year history, the Mac is finally able to move fluidly into and out of the world of Microsoft Windows and its applications — both in the workplace and at home. Microsoft’s own Office suite plays a big role in that. Microsoft’s commitment to Office 2008 for the Mac lends additional support,” Finnie writes.
“OK, so full disclosure: I am a recent Mac convert. But before you chalk me up as an apple-eyed Mac fanboy, I’m not your average Windows-to-Mac switcher. No one knows better than me (well, maybe Microsoft’s accountants) how firm a grip on the computer industry Microsoft has. As a Windows reviewer since almost the beginning of Windows (my first tests were of Windows 2.11), I have no illusions about Microsoft’s market lock,” Finnie writes.
“If the Mac or any other desktop OS were to truly put a dent in Microsoft’s desktop market share, it would take 15 years for Windows to ‘die.’ And that’s assuming Microsoft stood still and did nothing. In other words, it ain’t gonna happen. I also don’t hate Microsoft. I’m not a fanatic. I’m just someone who recognizes a good thing when he sees it. I undertook a simple three-month trial of the Mac last autumn, with no intention of sticking around, and realized four months later that I wasn’t going back,” Finnie writes. “But here’s the kicker: I am very definitely not alone.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Excellent article, highly recommended, but, one quibble: things can change faster that Finnie seems to realize. Embrace and extinguish works exponentially.
Related articles:
Intel-based Macs can save your university money – March 28, 2007
Network World: Need a new PC for Vista? Switching to Mac may cost less and give you more – March 16, 2007
USA Today on switching: Apple Macs can also be screaming-fast Windows machines – March 15, 2007
BusinessWeek: Microsoft’s Windows Vista is ‘slow and dangerous’ – March 15, 2007
Analyst: Microsoft’s Windows Vista is very good for Apple Mac – March 13, 2007
Windows expert dumps Windows, switches to Apple’s Mac OS X, finds software plentiful – March 12, 2007
InfoWorld: 9,000 people switch to Apple Mac every day (plus testing ‘Embrace and Extinguish’) – February 28, 2007
Netscape founder Marc Andreessen switches to Apple Mac – February 28, 2007
Computerworld: Windows expert dumps Windows, switches to Apple’s Mac OS X – February 08, 2007
Embrace and Extinguish in action: TechIQ’s ‘The VAR Guy’ dumps Windows, switches to Mac OS X – September 25, 2006
Windows sufferer spends six hours trying to ‘upgrade’ to Vista, says: ‘I should’ve bought a Mac’ – February 07, 2007
Windows Vista woes push BBC News editor to regret never having ‘defected’ to Apple Mac – February 06, 2007
Bill Gates unhinged with Apple envy; Microsoft on path to become high profile casualty – February 06, 2007
Apple takes dead aim at Microsoft’s Windows Vista in latest ‘Get a Mac’ ad (with video) – February 06, 2007
Digit: Don’t buy Vista; Microsoft may be driving millions to stick with XP or move to Apple Mac – February 05, 2007
Bill Gates has lost his mind: calls Apple liars, copiers; slams Mac OS X security vs. Windows – February 02, 2007
TIME Magazine: Microsoft’s Windows Vista ‘an embarassment to the good name of American innovation’ – February 02, 2007
Microsoft’s Windows Vista: Five years for a chrome-plated turd – January 30, 2007
Those unfamiliar with Apple’s Mac OS X may be impressed with Windows Vista – January 29, 2007
Digit: ‘Microsoft’s Windows Vista may be the best reason yet to buy an Apple Mac’ – January 29, 2007
Pioneer Press: Windows Vista shows ‘Apple is an innovation engine; Microsoft, not so much’ – January 29, 2007
Windows Vista disappoints, so get a Mac – January 29, 2007
Microsoft emails reveal serious Mac OS X Tiger envy – January 26, 2007
Analyst: Microsoft’s Windows Vista could be an opportunity for Apple – January 26, 2007
CNET Reviews Windows Vista: Is that all? Clunky and not very intuitive vs. Mac OS X; warmed-over XP – January 24, 2007
Mossberg: Microsoft’s Windows Vista offers lesser imitations of Apple’s Mac OS X features – January 18, 2007
Windows Vista disappointment drives longtime ‘Microsoft apologist’ to Apple’s Mac OS X – January 17, 2007
InformationWeek Review: Apple’s Mac OS X shines in comparison with Microsoft’s Windows Vista – January 06, 2007
NY Times’ Pogue reviews Microsoft’s Windows Vista: ‘Looks, Locks, Lacks’ – December 14, 2006
Unlike Microsoft’s Windows Vista, Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard will create no new jobs – December 12, 2006
A Windows expert opts for a Mac life, finds the experience ‘superb’ – December 07, 2006
15-year Windows vet tries Apple Mac: ‘My God! This is amazing!’ – December 04, 2006
Dave Winer: ‘Microsoft isn’t an innovator, and never was – they are always playing catch-up’ – December 01, 2006
Harvard Medical School CIO picks Mac OS X over Linux and Windows – November 30, 2006
A Windows expert opts for a Mac life – November 06, 2006
Apple Macs can run more software than Windows PCs – October 30, 2006
Apple does it again: New Macbook Pros much cheaper than Dell – October 25, 2006
Microsoft’s Windows Vista is basically Microsoft’s version of Mac OS 9.3 – October 11, 2006
Embrace and Extinguish in action: TechIQ’s ‘The VAR Guy’ dumps Windows, switches to Mac OS X – September 25, 2006
Top Windows developer dumps Microsoft’s ‘pile of crap’ for Apple’s Mac OS X – September 12, 2006
$399 for Windows Vista Ultimate?! (Hint: Get a Mac) – August 29, 2006
Thurrott pits Apple Mac Pro vs. similarly configured Dell, figures out the Mac is less expensive – August 18, 2006
Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard is 64-bit done right, unlike Microsoft’s Windows Vista kludge – August 14, 2006
Microsoft Windows Vista: If you can’t innovate… try to impersonate Apple’s Mac OS X – August 10, 2006
Analyst: Apple’s new Mac OS X Leopard sets new bar, leaves Microsoft’s Vista in the dust – August 08, 2006
Microsoft botches another copy job: Windows Vista Flip3D vs. Apple Mac OS X Exposé – June 26, 2006
Windows Vista rips-off Mac OS X at great hardware cost (and Apple gains in the end) – June 13, 2006
Computerworld: Microsoft Windows Vista a distant second-best to Apple Mac OS X – June 02, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Apple Macintosh simply does more and costs less than Windows PCs – February 14, 2006
Intel-based Macs running both Mac OS X and Windows will be good for Apple – June 10, 2005
Defending Windows over Mac a sign of mental illness – December 20, 2003
Yes they should
He’s right. I started a thread a while back on a different site and referred to a tipping point, when Apple sales would somehow just hit the right level and be qualitatively (and likely quantitatively) different.
I think the key is having certain trusted figures turn mac. I was that figure for several others. In business, it’ll be the higher-ups he mentions. People will follow, some blindly, some because if the boss has it, it’s tacit approval that they can do it too.
This year will be big. I’m so interested in Leopard to come out. I do think there are some important “secret features” that we’ll all complain about, but will help many others to pull the lever and get a mac.
Here’s to good times. Cheers.
While Apple and Macintosh users have proven that their success is not related to Microsoft… although it can be accelerated by their incompetence… Microsoft not supporting scripting in the Mac Office `08 will be a problem in the commercial environment. If I can’t take a document from a Windows version of office that contains macro’s and use it on my Mac, I will be limited in using my Macintosh for work purposes. I am sure that I am not alone.
Don’t fear the Reaper.
Performance problems? They have pills for that I think…Who says Apple had performance problems before switching to Intel? I admit that getting the G4 out of the laptops was really big news but as a video editor on a dual G5 I was very happy with my Mac performance. I sit next to a 3D Studio Max designer working on a Xeon Dell and I can tell you that I had no performance envy. It is true that my new Quad Xeon Mac Pro is a performance boost but I certainly never thought of the G5 as lacking performance…
What if Apple comes out with their own office suite that will cross-platform with MS Office. Is it possible – I don’t know but one can speculate. Imagine what impact that would have on converts.
Peterson had a performance problem once.
In 15 years from now, the majority (yes, >50%) of home computers will be Macs. Microsucks will still rule the roost in the business world, and I don’t think Steve Jobs will mind that.
I don’t even have to “switch” my remaining friends. They’re doing it on their own.
The G5 Rocks the House. What a great chip that was.
@ G-Spank:
I’ve switched from you to a better friend.
Indeed, the factor of change happens more rapidly than Scot understands.
When internal employees I know at certain high-tech companies Apple uses (and others as well), claim they see Apple owning 50% market share in 5-7 years, and they are not joking around, you’d better understand what is coming.
Two major factors will propel Apple into this type of giant.
1. iTunes: Some are finally understanding iTunes is a platform, and it will gain iTunes mobile soon enough. Microsoft has blown it with it’s “Home Media Server” where people get to manage another piece of HW with ever growing hard drive requirements, with Windows slapped on it… Who is into that beyond those kids in Redmond?… Apple has the model coming where you purchase or rent, and you can choose to download into iTunes or not. Apple keeps a nice record of what you own or are renting, and you can access it (via streaming) anywhere, any time. iPod, iPhone, AppleTV, computer. iTunes will allow Apple to become a monster in mobile and home entertainment, while M$ stumbles around with XBox 360 and Live whatever…
2. Mac OS X: The OS is the perfect rabbit hole. Once people start buying SW for a platform it is really tough to get them to move elsewhere. The Intel switch was phase one of the game. Phase two is Leopard and virtualization. Phase three will be about seamless application use of Windows or Mac – on a Mac – Parallels need not apply.
Apple’s goal here, along with the open source community is, ironically enough, to make the OS irrelevant. Buy software, any software, and it will just run, and isn’t that they way it should be? Of course, but Redmond won’t play this game – ever, and that is Apple’s endgame, and key advantage. While their OS will make the OS irrelevant, it will make OS X the must have OS to do so! Ironic isn’t it.
Redmond once thought this way, and figured it would be the end all to crushing all other platforms, but quickly pulled it from Longhorn, as every other platform would be sure to follow, and M$ would have made their OS irrelevant for running all that Win only SW…
The shoe is on the other foot, and Apple can only gain from doing this, while Redmond will only react to such a move as a last resort, and with the difficulty there is in doing such software, count on Redmond being 5 years late to the game, with a spat of softare issues ta boot.
I\’m coming for you, Cubert.
I think we’ll see some big changes at Apple in the next 5 years. With the release of Vista and Office, Apple has a wonderful opportunity to create an Office compatible package and start gunning for the corporate world. MS will lack the time to screw with their code and ruin the compatibility without being too obvious. These days are different. Sure most of us surf and e-mail more than we do anything else but more and more people hate MS to include the Euro-Union and anti-trusts in the US Gov. Apple needs to move because nobody’s excited about Vista and the software market will open world wide. I would hate to see another country produce another MS for Americans to throw their money to.
…that’s so true mdn. things can happen faster than you think.
….I remember once going to sleep on a Sunday night and then suddenly I was all grown up with my very own razor and shave cream.
At some point in the near future Microsoft will go to sleep on a Sunday night and wake up in a halfway house …a special home for the halfass …with bad hair and a v-neck sweater.
Through all the years instead showing OS X and all its brilliant (but still window-mouse based) features Apple did (among others) most important thing – brought to the market another type of interface – multitouch – it shuts the moutch.
Pisses me off that these newbie switchers say the pre-Intel performanace was a problem – they never tried it then and they don’t know that it was not a problem.
The only argument that stacks up was that the G5 never went into the Powerbooks…
Just look at the trailors on front Row – I only watched about 4, two of which had computers in the clips – both were MacBook Pro’s. The big handover to everyone that matters IS happening as we speak.
Companies rarely go down slowly unless they are obscured from the public eye and good only at ‘managing decline’. Public-eye companies such as MS now, Apple a decade ago and IBM two decades ago got into a ‘death spiral’ (ex-Intel CEO’s term). Company declines, confidence wanes, good people leave, they hire more bad people, spend on any project to try to regain market, down, down, down, faster and faster. Apple got down to only the 2% fanboys.
IBM and Apple pulled out of the spiral by redefining themselves. IBM in services rather than hardware, Apple as the computer for the internet-savy youth. MS is fixated on the enterprise, just like IBM was then, at the expense of the consumer. Apple is already in the back door and has a foot in the front door. Watch MS spend money on projects like there’s no tomorrow, because unless they can pull out of the spiral there will be no more tomorrow (except the few MS fanboys).
For one thing Microsoft doesn’t have that big of a grip on things. In fact I would say there grip is slipping quicker than ever. Zune a failure, Vista, a failure. Both have gotten chewed to pieces in the media and by the experts. Apple on the other hand is moving forward quickly with amazing new products that people love and use everyday. OSX,iLife,iTunes,iPods,iMacs and now the Apple TV and soon to be released iPhone.
Things can change faster – sure, remember Pan-American?
Microsoft doomed, yes I’ve been saying so for all of this millennium. My big problem, overestimating how quickly people will catch on.
Apple’s OpenDoc would have made applications OS agnostic back in the ’90s. Of course smaller, component based and potentially cross platform apps didn’t sit well with the Beast of Redmond. That was the promise of Java too.
When it came time for me to spend my hard earned money on a new computer and an OS I chose Apple and Mac. If the organization that I work for wants me to waste their time using an inefficient OS on a crap HP box then that’s their choice. At some point down the road (perhaps at the Vista upgrade decision)someone is going to say what the fcuk are we spending all this money and resources on this poop. Uncle Fester doesn’t get it – It is a white wired world!
IBM died really quickly. Microsoft can, too.
Remember CP/M? It was the industry “standard” in the early days of the computing industry, but was fatally wounded the minute the Apple ][ came out (although you could run it on the Apple ][ with the right card). The final nail came when IBM chose Bill Gates (and his port of CP/M) over CP/M-86. The rest is history.
I agree Windows isn’t going away any time soon, but with an average life-cycle of four years, the tide can be turned VERY quickly (especially when Apple is now fully backwards-compatible with Windows software).
…assuming Microsoft stood still and did nothing.
That’s exactly what Microsoft has been doing. Vista proves the point most persuasively.
The fact is, Apple’s proprietary lock-in system where the operating system is tied to one PC vendor will never fly in the enterprise and government agencies where the lowest hardware bidder that meets the specs gets the sale.
The other fact is that he who owns the server owns the desktop. Linux owns the web server market, Microsoft owns the enterprise server market. Unless Apple can make inroads in the enterprise server space, nothing will change and Macs will remain relegated to an obscure office in the dark corner of the basement where the graphics people work.
“But before you chalk me up as an apple-eyed Mac fanboy”
newsflash. every mac user I meet says this. and it’s true.
the lunatic fanboy types..? they don’t exist. like bigfoot. get it?
realize that, and you realize there is no downside to switching. Unless you’re a gamer, in which case (sorry) I wouldn’t associate with you anyway, hence, would never meet.
@Reality Check
I can’t agree with you on any point except perhaps that it may not be Apple who capture the corporate desktop. But that doesn’t mean Microsoft won’t lose it.
Imagine a low-cost, relatively low-powered, small form-factor desktop running a centrally-managed “windows-like” Unix/Linux desktop with a high function email client (exchange support required especially), a medium function WP client (Word file support required) and a medium function spreadsheet client (Excel file support required).
The basic components are already there – and such a client would meet the needs of the vast majority of corporate clients.
Add optional virtualisation for client-specific windows apps, and you have a non-microsoft solution for the corporate desktop.
HP could do this. Any why wouldnt they? They won’t do it until they feel that Microsoft are too weak to do anything about it but it would be very attractive for HP – it would completely wrong-foot Dell and others. And HP’s move to abandon the microsoft strategy for the home is a sure sign that HP are moving to create their own answer to the rise and rise of Apple…
And if HP don’t, then Lenovo/IBM will.
It will only take one or two major corporations to announce that they have successfully piloted such a solution and are now rolling it out across their enterprise – and that, as they say, would be the end of that!
MW=short
Fifteen years. No way. One of two things will happen. (1) Microsoft is going to have a change in leadership (with no Gates or Balmer) and recover from its Vista fiasco using it’s still considerable Windows/Office revenue. The new leadership will do what Jobs did at Apple. Focus on what’s important and be merciless with what’s not. Or (2) Microsoft will be around but mostly irrelevant within 5 years.
gspank has friends???? I doubt it.
All very interesting, but – in some ways – this analysis fails to look beyond the visible light spectrum at some of the more arcane factors at work in the marketplace.
Let’s play some games…
Apple is now the second most valuable personal computer manufacturer in the world and, although a significant element of that valuation is based in iPods and related income, it should be noted that Apple still makes around 17-20% gross margin on its personal computing products.
Apple is actually sandwiched between HP (which itself generates a lot of income from inkjet cartridges) and Dell. In fact, Apple is now worth around 50% more than Little Rock’s Little Shop oF Horror. Dell’s performance is now so dire that it has sacked its CEO and bought Michael Dell back into the driving seat – the worrying thing being that Dell (the man) believes that the solution is milking more “efficiency” from component suppliers and assembly operations.
These are all obvious observations, but how do they relate to Microsoft’s future?
Quite simply, MSFT’s future is predicated on it’s partners’ continuing willingness to act as Redmond’s tax collector and that situation will only continue as long as the business of PC assembly and distribution remain profitable to a level which maintains a viable return on investment.
In other words, if it ultimately becomes more profitable to simply stick the money into the corporate treasury than to compete in the PC marketplace, some companies (and I’m thinking of Dell here) will ultimately be confronted by investors who’ll be asking why their money is being used to generate far more ROI for Microsoft (and that company’s investors) than for HP/Dell/Gateway/GenericPOSBoxAssembler.
This problem doesn’t affect Apple: it’s not competing to sell 10 million boxes on razor-thin margins every quarter, especially when it can sell 1.5 million units and make more money by providing a better holistic experience at the premium end of the market.
The logical end point of the constant deflation in the PC marketplace is that, ultimately, Microsoft will – in order to convince corporates that the Windows industry is still viable – have to become a hardware company just like Apple, subcontracting its assembly to the Far East. Such a move would immediately bring MSFT’s margins down to levels that will choke its arrogance at source by adjusting its market cap and much of its power downwards – no more trying to dominate every market as a loss-leader and the unprofitable elements of the empire may have to go.
A similar analogy would be masturbation. I’ll masturbate easily three to four times a day. Do I prefer my wife? Of course I do, but she doesn’t like it three to four times a day so I stick with masturbating. Sometimes that is all that people can get.
TowerTone: <sniff> You had me at masturbate. <sniff>
@Towertone
Mate, that is WAY too much information…
Apple. The Mercedes of computing.
Hewlett-Packard. The General Motors of computing.
Dell. The Yugo of computing.
AlienWare. The ’59 El Dorado of computing.
Microsoft. The Standard Oil of computing.
@ TT
I’m totally with you on the masturbation.
Talk amongst ye’selves.
No, that wasn’t me at 9:21. I don’t even have a wife. Or if I do have one, she isn’t mine…
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”tongue wink” style=”border:0;” />
Thanks for the tears, anyhow TMF.
MCCFR-
‘ than Little Rock’s Little Shop oF Horror. Dell’s’
That would be ‘Round Rock, TX’ for Dell.
Little Rock is in Arkansas, and has its own ‘Little Shop of Horrors’ known as the Clinton Pesidential Library.
I would hope it is more obvious when I speak. At least I TRY to be humorous…
@C1
So that was YOU I heard in the closet….?
“It will only take one or two major corporations to announce that they have successfully piloted such a solution and are now rolling it out across their enterprise – and that, as they say, would be the end of that!”
I disagree because there’s support issues. Microsoft has the best enterprise support in the business. You need to hire a sys admin? It’s easy to find one that’s Microsoft-trained. Try finding a linux admin – they’re too expensive and hard to find one that’s trained on your particular flavor of linux. Even IBM, the big linux company, announced in January 2004 that they were going to be “Microsoft Free” on their internal desktops by switching to linux by the end of 2005 and it never happened. They tried it but it didn’t work. The problem was their internal support staff could not support it and the linux desktops could not run their internal web client/server apps without major money being spent on porting.
It’s not as simple as somebody coming along with a new solution and a company just switching to it. You end up with lost productivity because the client base is using something they’re not used to, the costs in IT and support are huge, and switching software suites to a new platform is many times prohibitively expensive.
Your scenario where we use basic client/server applications (perhaps Google’s proposed suite?) is over simplistic because in reality the enterprise depends on client/server database applications. Email, Exchange, etc are minor compared to migrating a huge enterprise database from SQL server (which it most likely is running on) to Oracle or similar on a different platform.
It’s not about the platform, it’s about the apps. The cost of the operating platform is VERY minor compared to the cost of the apps. And once the enterprise has invested both time and money in support, development and deployment of an application suite, the likelyhood of that company just suddenly switching to a different application suite, just so they can switch operating platforms, is none to nil. In business you pick the application suite needed to do the job, which in turn automatically determines the platform needed to run it. You guys got it backwards – you’re advocating a platform first, then the application suite. That’s called “putting the cart before the horse”.
In my case, even if I could switch from Windows 2003 Server Data Center to a different platform for our database applications, it would be a daunting task. And I would not select linux or Mac OS X Server to run it because neither is robust enough, nor is the support infrastructure there to keep it online. For instance, when build 2721 became available to Microsoft Connect users for testing, Microsoft engineers worked directly with the enterprise staff with compatibility testing and bug squashing to insure 100% uptime at deployment. Apple simply is not big enough to do this type of support on a wide scale enterprise basis in businesses with 50,000+ desktop computers. Period.
It’s not that us IT people dislike Apple like many think – it’s the fact that Apple can’t do it because they don’t have either the expertise or the people. Microsoft does.
The enterprise computing environment happens to be my specialty as a systems administrator, so that’s my 2 cents on the topic.
I am so not in the closet.
It’s not about switching the application base to a new platform. It’s about de-coupling the application base from the platform entirely.
@Reality Check
Windows 2003 server more robust than Linux?
Are you really kidding?
Sorry, there’s NO WAY in the world I can buy it.
I can accept that MIcrosoft has a more organized support organization, I can accept you can get cheaper MS people, I can accept Windows is more homogeneous, but….
… There is NO WAY in the world Windows 2003 Server is more robust than Linux or UNIX (and Mac OS X IS UNIX). Sorry, but, after running a Linux box for 6 years in a row without rebooting, and after seeing every single version of Windows servers reboot every time a security upgrade is released, seeing it crash by viruses, being attacked by malware (just as their desktop cousins) and having the same kernel flaws…
It’s a very bold statement, I’ll grant you that. But unfortunately is not a accurate one.
Reality Check!!
MW: “expect”, as “expect your Windows server to crash”
Scot Finnie writes in his article,
“After six years of waiting, it was time for something significantly better. We didn’t get it.”
I think a lot of people are getting it, just like Scot. That’s why Microsoft (and a few chairs) are worried.
“… There is NO WAY in the world Windows 2003 Server is more robust than Linux or UNIX (and Mac OS X IS UNIX).
Then you have no clue about enterprise level server platforms. Windows 2003 Server Data Center outperforms RHEL/Oracle by 14% on our database benchmarks, running on 32-cpu Itanium hardware. Mac OS X Server/MySQL, running on Fibre Channel clustered G5 Xserve’s in a telco rack, is so slow with threading under heavy query load that it’s not even worth looking at – Windows Server performs 1,000+% over OS X Server in our internal database benchmarking suite.
There have been<a > other public benchmarks</a> that show OS X’s terrible performance as a server platform as well.
If you know anything about database servers you know they can’t be shut down because no matter what platform you run a relational database on, it can take many hours to bring a 15TB database back online and verify that the database table structure is intact. Our Windows Servers were upgraded on April 16, 2003 and they have been running without reboot, and with 100% database uptime, to date.
@Reality Check
I only agree partly with you. A great many users in corporateville don’t run any “real” apps at all – just Office and Outlook. And a lot of apps these days use a browser client. It doesnt matter what the server is if the user interacts with it via Firefox…
Also, if HP put their mind to it they can create a supportable Linux-based platform. I don’t think many corporates will be windows-free, but i think a lot of corporates will run cheaper, microsoft-free, clients for lots of their users.
Is the OS/X database performance an inherent problem in OS/X or is it because MySQL is not well designed for high throughput applications?
Microsoft doesn’t “perform” worth jack. Puhlease! Let’s leave abstract, never-gonna-happen-in-reality benchmarks out of the discussion, because as nearly every corporate user knows, Microsoft’s real world performance is awful. If you’re a cube dweller, you’ll have run up against this more times than you can count.
I really don’t imagine that Apple is going to dominate the server room any time soon. Personally, I didn’t ever think that, and this is the big distinction that Ballmer, Dvorak, and pretty much everyone else that suckles a living from the Windows Economy doesn’t understand.
Apple is a hardware company, yes. We all know this. But it’s not a Computer Company any more. It’s a Consumer Electronics Company. There is a huge difference that we must remember.
Apple sells cool. They do it very well. Who are their buyers? Regular people. People who don’t read feature lists and do head-to-head comparisons or cost analysis. They see something they like, it works in a pleasing way, and they buy it.
This is how the consumer industry works, and this is where Microsoft comically falls in its face every time it tries to dance. They do not understand this market, that’s why Apple always wins here. Apple will continue to win as *personal* computers leave the realm of business hardware and enter the realm of home stereos, TVs, media players, walkmen, etc. THIS is what people want for their homes, not the Soviet Beige Boxen that IT dumps into their cube at work.
Microsoft owns that market, and ass far as I care, they can have it. That’s not what Apple is going after, and it’s clear that this disturbs Ballmer when he talks about how unsuited iPhone is to business users. He would LOVE Apple to try to break into corporate IT in a big way, because they would loose, for all the reasons that RC points out above.
But in my home, I really don’t give a shit if my machine is IT Approved™. I am my own IT department, and all I have to worry about is if it runs my own apps like I want, and can connect with the office. Macs can do this in almost all cases. I run Cisco VPN to connect to work, and VM Ware for the one or two tiny little tasks that require IE. It all works wonderfully.
Now, at work, I have a Mac, too. I also have a Thinkpad, that I once used for those odd PC tasks, but VM Ware has rendered it a permanent screen saver. On my home level, and even on my work desktop level, I’m on my desired platform. I’m not bound to the platform of our corporate apps, even though Microsoft and Dell would love it if I was.
Corporate systems will remain as they are for many years, this is how corporations are – conservative and prudent. Good for them. Headway will be made for non-Windows systems as platofrm-neutral web apps become more and more common, but that’s going to be a long road. Apple won’t take over, not to the level that MS has. But MS *WILL* loose its top-to-bottom hold on computing. It’s happening right before our eyes. Computing has taken the irrevocable turn toward personal electronics, and Apple has the power to crush the competition here. Microsoft, as has been demonstrated time and again, doesn’t have a prayer.
-c
MW: ‘seem’ (‘ed like a good idea at the time)
“Is the OS/X database performance an inherent problem in OS/X or is it because MySQL is not well designed for high throughput applications?”
From what I could gather it appears to be a flaw in the way OS X’s XNU (Mach) kernel handles threading and memory management. Server applications that depend heavily on launching child processes (threads) to handle ever increasing client load, such as MySQL and Apache, do not perform well on OS X Server because of this core flaw.
Despite the senseless rant of “BustingTheSkullOfIdiots”, who obviously has ZERO experience running enterprise-level client/server applications, Windows 2003 Server Data Center Edition, in combination with Microsoft’s SQL Server, is currently the most robust relational database server you can buy. HP-UX on PA-RISC, Solaris on SPARC, AIX 5L on Power, or RHEL on Itanium, all running Oracle, can achieve better performance than Windows on some query sets and get worse results on others, depending on the nature of the database query. But Windows Server/SQL Server was still our platform of choice when we chose our relational database suite back in 2003 due to overall better throughput than the competition. We had previously been running Solaris on SPARC.
BTW – I work for ExxonMobile and our case study and migration from UNIX-based systems to Windows-based systems is on Microsoft’s website.
So IMHO, saying Apple is ready for the enterprise is a misnomer. Apple is oriented to the high-end consumer space and I do not see them being ready to play with the Big Boys.
And BTW – thanks for at least SOMEBODY on this forum having enough common sense to have a real, productive discussion for once!
@Reality
Thanks for the insight. I agree wholeheartedly that Apple does not have anything to offer in the high end database space – they only offer one server in a few variants after all…
The current OS/X server is still very much command line oriented except for a few simple GUI tools grafted on top. Which means it has not had much focus at Apple. I hear that this is changing and Leopard Server will be quite a significant advance.
Apple will make inroads into the corporate space, but I imagine Apple will most likely focus on the low-end of the SME space, where Microsoft’s solutions are now way too complex for most businesses. I will be interested to see how well Leopard addresses my beefs with OS/X server – particularly in the area of DNS configuration and mail. Still, for the price, you get a lot of bang for your buck at this end of the market.
“The other fact is that he who owns the server owns the desktop. Linux owns the web server market…”
..but they own no desktops to speak of. Pretty much negates your point, doesn’t it?
-c
I have to agree with Reality Check on the Enterprise issue.
I work for the Feds, and know that he’s talking facts, and not for medium sized businesses. Large Enterprise customers really are in the boat he speaks of, and Apple has shown NO interest in that market at all!
My Agency, for better or worse, is a Microsoft bastion, except that we use Oracle as our default data base. We run over 700 servers, some virtual, and there is some mix between Linux and Windows, but the main servers running the AD, Exchange, etc., are 2003 now.
Because of budget restraints, I am sure that even if Microsoft inexplicably died tomorrow, a market would develop for those with Microsoft expertise that could and would support those products that Enterprises like ours have and could never afford to migrate from in less than five years.
Microsoft won’t die. It will divest itself of unprofitable parts of itself, reorganize around those core business competencies such as Enterprise and Office and keep on doing business, just not as a monopoly.
Apple is happy, I am sure, to leave that market to Microsoft, as in such a new paradigm, Microsoft will have to learn to integrate many different desktop OSes into working with its networking systems in order to remain competitive.
I do believe that one of the devisions Microsoft will be forced to spin off is its desktop OS division. THAT one’s gonna die!
MW= clearly, as in clearly, things are muddled in the computer industry!
@ rahrens
Totally agree. The Microsoft desktop OS (at least on the consumer level) is soon to be history.